Best teams

[CQ SAINT]

We puts some kids on the ground this year, created run space and over lap.

We made finals. Marshall was great. His role was to attack the centre clearance, foil the throw ins and get the ball to ground or down field a.s.a.p.
The rest of the time he stayed behind the ball, rarely pushing forward, to reduce his kilometres, one out.

Bring on Paddy Keeler. Lol

It's a plan.

[CQ SAINT]

Nicky Dal one posted votes in 8 consecutive games and we let him go, just when we needed his knowledge.

He came back too.

[CQ SAINT]

He got those girls going this year. Looking forward to their next season.

[CQ SAINT]

The midfield largely wins the clearances ... 90% of the hit outs are neither here nor there .A lot of hitouts go straight to opposition midifelders, even from "dominating" ruckmen.
It is a very tight and contested space.

It's hard to draw meaningful conclusions when comparing clearance numbers given different midfields are involved.

Sandilands and Natanui as a ruck combo were averaging 30 more hitouts than the average ruck combo ... they absolutely dominated the hitouts ... but for all that, their midfield only had two or three more clearances, maybe ... compared to the team average.

But, yeah, whatever, alright!!

Afl ruckmen need to get their 15 or so possessions around the ground, otherwise you might as well play 2.15m basketballers or tall athletes who can jump ... if hitouts count for that much.

If you can't get clearances from your ruckman, you better hope he averages 5 or 8 a game.

Logic.

Just get better midfielders. Seems to be working.

[CQ SAINT]

Only 7 spots for forwards

Only 3 for talls - one probably hybrid

I think it depends on how Membrey goes next season

Surely he has a heck of a lot of trust building to do before even being considered for a spot in the firsts.

Why? Care to explain.

Yeah I’m kind of miffed by this response too.

I would imagine that if he’s fit, he plays on merit.

What’s the inference?

There is no inference it's an opinion. Duty of care suggests to me the club needs to make sure he is ok. If that’s agreed, how would you go about it, just throw the guy in the deep end, act like there is no issue to resolve? Wishing its all just water under the bridge doesn't always make it so.

Probably went something like this.
Take all the time you need. Clear your head and get your body ready for pre-season.

If you don't return for pre-season, there's always the next year.

[nostalgicsaint]

The midfield largely wins the clearances ... 90% of the hit outs are neither here nor there .A lot of hitouts go straight to opposition midifelders, even from "dominating" ruckmen.
It is a very tight and contested space.

It's hard to draw meaningful conclusions when comparing clearance numbers given different midfields are involved.

Sandilands and Natanui as a ruck combo were averaging 30 more hitouts than the average ruck combo ... they absolutely dominated the hitouts ... but for all that, their midfield only had two or three more clearances, maybe ... compared to the team average.

But, yeah, whatever, alright!!

Afl ruckmen need to get their 15 or so possessions around the ground, otherwise you might as well play 2.15m basketballers or tall athletes who can jump ... if hitouts count for that much.

There is a difference between being a good ruckman and winning hit outs.

A good ruckman gives the side control of the stoppage setup as they have control of where the ball is going to go.

A good ruckman can lose the hit out and increase the likelihood that the ball is going into the 'hit zone' they have agreed to with their midfield prior through the way the position and contest the ball up/bounce/throw in.

A good ruckman also creates space for the midfield to operate in through their follow up.

A great ruckman brings this control to the broader game by setting themselves up to intercept mark during general play and kicking goals.

So you're right- hit outs are overrated- an athlete can win hit outs.

The hitout comment simplifies things though as a ruckman who understands stoppage craft is invaluable. Ask any midfielder who has played with or against a genuine gun stoppage ruckman. They're worthy their weight in gold.

This is why Paddy was so valuable and he has helped pass on that knowledge to Roma no doubt.

[samoht]

In reality, there may not be as much control as you think ... we're talking about a very tight and heavily contested space (that zone you're referring to) and split seconds.

The ruckmen vie against each other and try to outreach and outposition their opponent during the hitout - they are looking and leaping upwards, with their momentum moving upwards, and they're trying to thread a proverbial needle at the same time. It's a big ask.

Logically, if Natanui or Sandilands couldn't translate their sheer dominance and their 30 extra hitouts into 20 extra clearances for their respective teams, no ruckman can ... when we're talking about 70 hitouts to 40 hitouts and their respective midfields just break even at the end - I can't ignore that stat.

What are we expecting Marshall to do?

... and the other thing is, we're taking away credit from the great midfielders, the clearance beasts with body strength or leg speed/fast reaction times, footy brains (a combo of all or some of these traits). They are the key - they're the ones who make the difference (as far as clearances go) in my opinion (as informed by the stats).

[nostalgicsaint]

You're missing the point.

I've seen and played with dominant ruckman from a hit out perspective who weren't impactful.

I've also seen and played with ruckman who aren't dominant from a statistics perspective and yet the midfield have been desperate for him to come on. Because he controls the stoppage.

[CQ SAINT]

Most clearance training sets are about midfield position, the umpires decide where the ball will drop.

The trick is to close space and then spread in a designated pattern, in relation to your opposition and team mates.

Seb Ross and Jack Steven provided Marshall with this.

Ross is big, strong and explosive. Jack was very explosive.

Seb Ross was nearly unstoppable for a couple of years but was surrounded by mental pee wees until Steele stood up and Crouch came over. Newnes was great on the spread and tough inside before he got smashed.

Longer and Hickey were a waste but at least we had one of each and they both had one great year each.

[samoht]

Oops ... I almost referred to this team stat table re: clearances from fox sports, thinking it was for 2023, but it doesn't appear to be??
I wonder what year it was from? It shows Collingwood finishing 17th in clearance.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/stats/ ... clearances

Anyway, looking at AFL team tables for 2023, Port Adelaide is an interesting team to study, as it had almost 1.3 clearances per hitout ... it stood out.
We didn't do too bad at 1.067 clearance per hitout, and Freo only managed 0.807 clearance per hitout.
Putting it another way, with 320 less hitouts than Freo, Port Adelaide still ended up with 103 more clearances!!