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saintsRrising wrote: ↑Mon 06 Nov 2023 1:16am
While Max and Ben should both probably land some more tackles, I think that in the main key forwards who are your key targets are not going to land high tackle counts.
Often the defenders on them will be seeking to take them out as they tray and mark. So harder for them to then chase players.
There is also not much point comparing them to a contested ball player like Owens, who is a lot more than just a marking target.
Max when not taken out has proven to be pretty nimble at crumbing the ball.
Exactly.
Its a confected "weakness".
His opponents rarely get the ball and its hardly his role to chase guys like McGrath and Quaynor.
saintsRrising wrote: ↑Mon 06 Nov 2023 1:16am
Max when not taken out has proven to be pretty nimble at crumbing the ball.
However his greatest weakness is when he does get taken out he doesn’t always give a second effort because he’s spitting the dummy. It will hold him back from going to the next level if he can’t get on top of it.
saintsRrising wrote: ↑Mon 06 Nov 2023 1:16am
Max when not taken out has proven to be pretty nimble at crumbing the ball.
However his greatest weakness is when he does get taken out he doesn’t always give a second effort because he’s spitting the dummy. It will hold him back from going to the next level if he can’t get on top of it.
am I the only here that is impressed by his second efforts
Out of all of the key forwards of the last 15 years Ben & Max are the only two players I can find who average less than a tackle per game.
Ben is paltry at 0.6 per game, Max goes at 0.9 per game with his best season being his first year with shorter quarters owing to Covid.
Yes, his job is to mark the ball, compete in the air and kick goals. To a large degree he ticks that box. He has had injuries, but I agree with someone who posted recently that said King plays the game as if it were the under 15s & to just kick the ball high & he will do the rest.
For King to go to the next level he needs to push his tackle count up to a minimum Joe Daniher 1.1 per game. He will never be a Hawkins, Buddy, Jack Riewoldt style player that are all 2.3-2.5 a game but a desire to chase & put at least inferred pressure on will help us enormously IMO. Even a spud like Harry McKay goes at 1.5 per game, pressure in the modern game on the ball carrier is vitally important
aaron82 wrote: ↑Mon 06 Nov 2023 11:33am
Out of all of the key forwards of the last 15 years Ben & Max are the only two players I can find who average less than a tackle per game.
Ben is paltry at 0.6 per game, Max goes at 0.9 per game with his best season being his first year with shorter quarters owing to Covid.
Yes, his job is to mark the ball, compete in the air and kick goals. To a large degree he ticks that box. He has had injuries, but I agree with someone who posted recently that said King plays the game as if it were the under 15s & to just kick the ball high & he will do the rest.
For King to go to the next level he needs to push his tackle count up to a minimum Joe Daniher 1.1 per game. He will never be a Hawkins, Buddy, Jack Riewoldt style player that are all 2.3-2.5 a game but a desire to chase & put at least inferred pressure on will help us enormously IMO. Even a spud like Harry McKay goes at 1.5 per game, pressure in the modern game on the ball carrier is vitally important
As I’ve said before, it’s a big year for Max, he can no longer be given the excuse he is “still young”, the runway on that line has run out.
Time to keep injury free and show us he’s capable of being the franchise player we desperately need him to be, this current rebuild will be squarely built on that foundation.
Exactly how I see it Vortex. Massive year & he is more than capable with a great group of coaches. I have no doubt Ross will be drilling into him to give more defensively as well as having extra clubs in the kit back so to speak than just a high mark from the side or from behind.
Vortex said, apparently again:
"As I’ve said before, it’s a big year for Max, he can no longer be given the excuse he is “still young”, the runway on that line has run out.
Time to keep injury free and show us he’s capable of being the franchise player we desperately need him to be, this current rebuild will be squarely built on that foundation."
Vort you are sometimes - not often mind you - critical and make unfounded negative statements, probably to keep the boys keen I guess; and sometimes I've thought what a negative blighter, is he/she really a fan, never anything positive to say if a barb can be thrown instead, but I have to acknowledge you kindly pulled your punches here. You could have pointed out how well Cooper Sharman has developed, filled in at full forward and starred in a pressure final and by doing so reminded Ben he has internal competition and may be expendable, make him fret, but you didn't. I agree no need to heap unnecessary negativity on the young bloke, sorry, old bloke of 23 - he has crammed so much into those few years. (BTW: what is the thing he has been given an excuse for; getting injured in a contact sport perhaps, not kicking 100%, what?)
Yorkeys wrote: ↑Mon 06 Nov 2023 1:13pm
You could have pointed out how well Cooper Sharman has developed, filled in at full forward and starred in a pressure final
As I said after the final, he played well, I was impressed, I want to see that delivered consistently now, has limitations with agility and struggles below the knees and at ground level and needs some Caminiti aggression but hopefully Lyon can coach around those weaknesses.
Another: Under the pump: Clayton Oliver.
But
Anyone think Melbourne's connections and lawyers won't get him a free pass. Unless Dees want to cut him loose.
Sort of surprising AFL hasn't got a three strike system in place to handle such incidents in house and discretely, out of the view of the mainstream hoi polloi.
Yorkeys wrote: ↑Tue 19 Dec 2023 11:20am
Another: Under the pump: Clayton Oliver.
But
Anyone think Melbourne's connections and lawyers won't get him a free pass. Unless Dees want to cut him loose.
Sort of surprising AFL hasn't got a three strike system in place to handle such incidents in house and discretely, out of the view of the mainstream hoi polloi.
There's a fair chance he has already has an idea where he is going. They just needed to calm the press.
saynta wrote: ↑Sat 04 Nov 2023 11:16am
From afl.com.au
UNDER THE PUMP
King had three tackles against Adelaide and two against Geelong.
In his 18 other games, he recorded four tackles total.
He is harshly judged because of his pay packet and he battled some knee soreness coming off an ACL tear.
But, for comparison, of all key forwards Mitch Owens had 87 tackles, Aaron Naughton 59, Jack Darling 51 and Anthony Caminiti 50, while brother Max and Hawthorn’s Fergus Greene were the next worst, both with 10 tackles from 11 games.
So when King isn’t clunking marks — and he can have rare days where he drops everything in sight — can he be a more physical, involved player who is a leader of the Suns forward line?
I think the Kings and the McKays are a bit over-rated, but, those types of players are hard to find so when you get them you have to pay overs to keep them.
Hopefully the Kings stay fit in 2024 and show the footy world what the hype is all about.
I'm still not sure which of the King's is the better player.
How many defenders will The Saints pick in the 2024 draft ?
Reading this post makes me think if we really want both Kings.
There are days we love Max, and there are times he frustrates us. On balance he's a great asset.
But could we justify both Kings in the same forward line? Sure it would be exciting if they were both 'on' at the same time, and they worked together in perfect harmony. But think of the 'off days', dummy spits, no chase, no tackle ..no goals .. just imaging this forum ..
