Where to for Dougal Howard and what does our defence look like?

[skeptic]

Huge turnaround in fortune for Dougal Howard this year.

12 months ago most had him a lock as our full back for years to come and he was a key part of a frugal defence. Not beyond criticism by any means but few felt he wasn’t up to it or desired that he be moved on.

Then he had a challenging patch of time that came to a head in a game I can’t quite recall… but it was in the wet and he made a number of bad blunders that cost us goals. He got subbed and then dropped.

I’m addition to iffy disposal at times, his critics suggest he plays too loose and is a finger pointer.

Since then… his star has fallen. He got injured but more than that… many have begun to feel that Cordy is a better prospect and the rumour mill suggested that RTB wouldn’t have been unhappy if the right offer came along.

Haven’t heard match about him in off-early preseason so far.

Am interested to see what others think…

IMO he’s still pbly our best prospect for FB at least in starting the season. He’s decent enough 1:1, good in team defence, nice booming kick when he wants. IMO the criticism for the game he was dropped in was a bit overblown… yeah he had a stinker but it just bad unforced errors in the wet… deserved to be dropped but not stamped out for that.
Kudous to the coaches for taking the kick ins away from him because bomb it long was his only move.

By all accounts is a decent leader and trainer.

Is he in our plans?
Does he start?
Do the coaches rate him?
What would he be worth?

[Otiman]

Not as bad as people made him out to be. Was relied on too many times to be silky smooth under pressure at ground level which showed him up. He's no Jack Sinclair, he's a full back.

Dougal is the best full back on our list, bar none, and our best since Maxy Hudghton. We need a good 200cm/100kg key defender for 1 on 1 matchups, and Dougal is it. He's no Sam Taylor or Harris Andrews, but he'd be pushing top 10 full back in the league. Remember our defense let through the least goals by far this year.

The next question is - how do we get a better full back?

Cordy is definitely not a better option. Take a look at his one on ones in the final.
I can't see Van Es going ahead of him this year. I see him more as a Wilkie type than Howard anyway.
The trade market is paying overs for KPD's. Ratugolea would have been a huge downgrade as well. IMO Dougal is in line with McKay.
Some key forwards in our list that could be developed as defenders. What about Caminiti?

Some stats for Howard, sourced from wheelo:
7.1 spoils per game (11th in the league, League Leader Harris Andrews 9.6)
22.4% Defensive 1 on 1 loss rate (29th in the League, Wilkie 21.5%, League Leader Weitering 10.9%)
4.6 Pressure Acts per game (70th in the League, Wilkie 7.8 (17th), League Leader Jack Buckley 10.7)

It's not fair to compare Howard to Cordy as he played forward for half of his games.

[shanegrambeau]

Not as bad as people made him out to be. Was relied on too many times to be silky smooth under pressure at ground level which showed him up. He's no Jack Sinclair, he's a full back.

Dougal is the best full back on our list, bar none, and our best since Maxy Hudghton. We need a good 200cm/100kg key defender for 1 on 1 matchups, and Dougal is it. He's no Sam Taylor or Harris Andrews, but he'd be pushing top 10 full back in the league. Remember our defense let through the least goals by far this year.

The next question is - how do we get a better full back?

Cordy is definitely not a better option. Take a look at his one on ones in the final.
I can't see Van Es going ahead of him this year. I see him more as a Wilkie type than Howard anyway.
The trade market is paying overs for KPD's. Ratugolea would have been a huge downgrade as well. IMO Dougal is in line with McKay.
Some key forwards in our list that could be developed as defenders. What about Caminiti?

Some stats for Howard, sourced from wheelo:
7.1 spoils per game (11th in the league, League Leader Harris Andrews 9.6)
22.4% Defensive 1 on 1 loss rate (29th in the League, Wilkie 21.5%, League Leader Weitering 10.9%)
4.6 Pressure Acts per game (70th in the League, Wilkie 7.8 (17th), League Leader Jack Buckley 10.7)

It's not fair to compare Howard to Cordy as he played forward for half of his games.

I agree
Cordy not a pinch on Howard based on the little bits I have seen.

[NickyDal]

Cordy could not do up Howard's bootlaces...

[Vortex]

Huge turnaround in fortune for Dougal Howard this year.

12 months ago most had him a lock as our full back for years to come and he was a key part of a frugal defence. Not beyond criticism by any means but few felt he wasn’t up to it or desired that he be moved on.

Then he had a challenging patch of time that came to a head in a game I can’t quite recall… but it was in the wet and he made a number of bad blunders that cost us goals. He got subbed and then dropped.

I’m addition to iffy disposal at times, his critics suggest he plays too loose and is a finger pointer.

Since then… his star has fallen. He got injured but more than that… many have begun to feel that Cordy is a better prospect and the rumour mill suggested that RTB wouldn’t have been unhappy if the right offer came along.

Haven’t heard match about him in off-early preseason so far.

Am interested to see what others think…

IMO he’s still pbly our best prospect for FB at least in starting the season. He’s decent enough 1:1, good in team defence, nice booming kick when he wants. IMO the criticism for the game he was dropped in was a bit overblown… yeah he had a stinker but it just bad unforced errors in the wet… deserved to be dropped but not stamped out for that.
Kudous to the coaches for taking the kick ins away from him because bomb it long was his only move.

By all accounts is a decent leader and trainer.

Is he in our plans?
Does he start?
Do the coaches rate him?
What would he be worth?

The iffy kicking thing is an internet myth, making a mistake in a crucial moment doesn't translate into having intrinsically poor skills.

Having said that it was his greatest weakness that got him offside with Roas, needs to just do what's asked of him and he should return to being a valuable member of the team once again.

Players need to tread carefully with Ross this year, he may not be so cuddly.

[The_Dud]

Not as bad as people made him out to be. Was relied on too many times to be silky smooth under pressure at ground level which showed him up. He's no Jack Sinclair, he's a full back.

Dougal is the best full back on our list, bar none, and our best since Maxy Hudghton. We need a good 200cm/100kg key defender for 1 on 1 matchups, and Dougal is it. He's no Sam Taylor or Harris Andrews, but he'd be pushing top 10 full back in the league. Remember our defense let through the least goals by far this year.

The next question is - how do we get a better full back?

Cordy is definitely not a better option. Take a look at his one on ones in the final.
I can't see Van Es going ahead of him this year. I see him more as a Wilkie type than Howard anyway.
The trade market is paying overs for KPD's. Ratugolea would have been a huge downgrade as well. IMO Dougal is in line with McKay.
Some key forwards in our list that could be developed as defenders. What about Caminiti?

Some stats for Howard, sourced from wheelo:
7.1 spoils per game (11th in the league, League Leader Harris Andrews 9.6)
22.4% Defensive 1 on 1 loss rate (29th in the League, Wilkie 21.5%, League Leader Weitering 10.9%)
4.6 Pressure Acts per game (70th in the League, Wilkie 7.8 (17th), League Leader Jack Buckley 10.7)

It's not fair to compare Howard to Cordy as he played forward for half of his games.

Hard to lose a 1-on-1 contest when you're playing 10m off your man!

Has all the physical attributes but is a very poor decision maker, which unfortunately for him can't be hidden playing full back.

Is behind Wilkie and Battle, fighting Cordy for a spot.

[CQ SAINT]

Let's get our midfield right, before we start f****** with the thing that saves our ass the most. The Howard - Van Es transition, doesn't seem as important to me, than making sure we have two solid key defenders before Wilkie gets wasted not being the third.

[Vortex]

Let's get our midfield right, before we start f****** with the thing that saves our ass the most. The Howard - Van Es transition, doesn't seem as important to me, than making sure we have two solid key defenders before Wilkie gets wasted not being the third.

Couldn’t have said it better myself…strange topic for a thread really.

[spert]

Let's get our midfield right, before we start f****** with the thing that saves our ass the most. The Howard - Van Es transition, doesn't seem as important to me, than making sure we have two solid key defenders before Wilkie gets wasted not being the third.

True.. the amount of footy that our mids let leak into the back half by getting beaten to contests just didn't do our backs any favours. It is hard as a backline player to kick the ball up field, then it bounces straight back before you can get back into position.

[Otiman]

Hard to lose a 1-on-1 contest when you're playing 10m off your man!

Has all the physical attributes but is a very poor decision maker, which unfortunately for him can't be hidden playing full back.

Is behind Wilkie and Battle, fighting Cordy for a spot.

Sounds like you need to change your Avatar again then.

[CQ SAINT]

Howard's contract, that is the issue. When it's done, it's done.
It's done soon.

$600k, you wanna stay in this team, your gonna have to reduce your contract.
We have Van Es, Shoey and Cordy, Keeler, Marshall and Heath. We wil be ok.
He is on 600k, we had options to trade him but the offers would have been lower.

Let the cobblers cobble.

[CQ SAINT]

Battles contract is one we should focus on. He is our greatest threat of loss and his Mrs family lives on the Gold Coast. He also shortened his last contract.

[CQ SAINT]

Battle has value.

[NickyDal]

Battles contract is one we should focus on. He is our greatest threat of loss and his Mrs family lives on the Gold Coast. He also shortened his last contract.

I don't want to lose Battle because I reckon he is a future All Australian. Having stated that though, if he does end up going to the Gold Coast we will demand a mid FRDP at the very least, and definitely get it...

[magnifisaint]

Howard is so over rated. If he has another season like he just had he is done.

[Otiman]

Howard is so over rated. If he has another season like he just had he is done.

And replaced with who?

All sides need a 198cm+ full back. Howard is better than any of the trade options thrown around this year.

[Life Long Saint]

Howard is so over rated. If he has another season like he just had he is done.

And replaced with who?

All sides need a 198cm+ full back. Howard is better than any of the trade options thrown around this year.

I am seriously not getting the hate with Dougal.
We all know that defenders have limitations, otherwise with their size, they'd be forwards.
I am not sure that there was a game where Dougal was genuinely beaten by his opponent...Maybe Tex in round 9. But, to be fair, Tex beat a lot of opponents this year. As did Charlie Curnow.
By and large, it was not opposition key forwards that were responsible for our losses.

[D.B.Cooper]

Perhaps I am biased, but I rate Howard at least the equivalent as a player as Ben “Kings Ransom” McKay.

He’s not Harris Andrew’s but he is not deserving of some of the posts aimed at him on this forum.

[Yorkeys]

Perhaps I am biased, but I rate Howard at least the equivalent as a player as Ben “Kings Ransom” McKay.

He’s not Harris Andrew’s but he is not deserving of some of the posts aimed at him on this forum.

Yes.
Plays much tighter than McKay.

[Killa]

Do I recall Lyon mentioning Howard?

Stating he is a required player, which he is

There is some rubbish put on this site

[Life Long Saint]

Perhaps I am biased, but I rate Howard at least the equivalent as a player as Ben “Kings Ransom” McKay.

He’s not Harris Andrew’s but he is not deserving of some of the posts aimed at him on this forum.

He's way better than McKay. If they're lined up against a wall and it's your pick, you're picking Howard every time.

[Sanctorum]

Howard's at a crucial junction in his footy career, he turns 28 in March next year and should be at his prime, yet was injured and lost form, played 18 games last season in 3 of which he was subbed off.

With Lyon's strict policy of players doing their utmost to work hard and get the best out of themselves, Howard will either lift his performance or fall by the wayside. I hope he makes it because currently St Kilda do not have another key defender of his size, but time will tell.

As for the future, my money is on Arie Schoenmaker, who at 194 cm is the same size as Tim May, to become St Kilda's long term fullback in due course.

[Life Long Saint]

As for the future, my money is on Arie Schoenmaker, who at 194 cm is the same size as Tim May, to become St Kilda's long term fullback in due course.

Why are you comparing the size of a former test off-spinner with a footballer?

[magnifisaint]

As for the future, my money is on Arie Schoenmaker, who at 194 cm is the same size as Tim May, to become St Kilda's long term fullback in due course.

Why are you comparing the size of a former test off-spinner with a footballer?

He means Steven. The Neanderthal.

[Vortex]

As for the future, my money is on Arie Schoenmaker, who at 194 cm is the same size as Tim May, to become St Kilda's long term fullback in due course.

Why are you comparing the size of a former test off-spinner with a footballer?

I think he meant Bontempelli or Petracca.