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[Life Long Saint]

I actually thought we bottomed out prior to 3/4 time against North.
After that we played some pretty good footy...Including putting Richmond and Geelong officially out of the finals.
We lost to Carlton (who are actually better than us) after outplaying them for the first half.
And we lost to Brisbane by 2 goals in a close game all day when we rested Max King.

Then the final...Losing Membrey in the manner we did on the eve of the final didn't help us in so many ways.
Membrey and King work very well together. Caminiti, at the moment, is a headless chook at times and that was shown in the final.
Not to mention the emotional effect his incident had on the players. AFL clubs are way more close knit that other work places.

Give us a full season of Membrey, King, and Hayes and it allows Caminiti to develop in the twos and also stops Owens from going into the ruck.
We should be better in 2024 than we were in 2023.

[Otiman]

It all depends on how much we drop once we hit the 'development' button.

It was pretty clear that 2023 was "have a crack and see what this list can do" and 2024 will be about developing our shortfalls.

I've got no doubt that we bounce back reasonably quickly though.

[bobmurray]

I do agree we were lucky to make finals in '23.
We peaked in that narrow loss to Collingwood and by mid-May, after the Adelaide debacle, we were on the slide.
However, we seemed to hang on and hang on thanks partly to other results and having a crack.
I think we might be better next year if injuries do not strike too badly, but we have lost a lot of talent and replaced it with unknowns that are promising.

It makes sense to me that oppo fans expect us to slide.

Obviously we know better.

Owens will be our Pretracca, our Nathan Fyfe and more.

We were not lucky to make finals this year. We were in the top 8 all year and thoroughly deserved our place. And when you factor in all our injuries it makes it even more meritorious!!!

Who cares about Nexus
No one gives a F**k about Joffaboy, a poster who hates people.

Are you okay Bob?

Fine now, after a few beers i got sucked in by a posters signature, my bad

[BadRossco]

Last season we lacked pace, skill and height. We seem to have addressed the lack of pace and to a lesser extent the skill may improve but we still lack a couple of quality talls that said I would expect a slight improvement but other teams may improve more so we could struggle to play finals

[Moods]

Those with a good memory will remember after the 08 finals series that everyone predicted that we would slide down the ladder. We finished top 4 by smashing the bombers reserves team by over 100 points in the last game of the H&A season to win either 13 or 14 games. It was a very average group of teams outside of the top 2 that year.

Anyway, it was widely assumed that it was a fluke and that the saints had peaked under GT and RL wasn't taking the club anywhere special. My point? Not that we'll come out next year and play like we did in 09, but that predictions mean jack s***, especially at this time of year, and especially by pundits calling talkback shows or voting on polls. The majority support the bigger clubs I'm quietly confident that we can improve next year, but much of it depends on King and Marshall remaining healthy.

[ctqs]

Why on earth would anyone care what an SEN listener thinks of them? If you do, then you're as stupid as they are.

[Sanctorum]

Those with a good memory will remember after the 08 finals series that everyone predicted that we would slide down the ladder. We finished top 4 by smashing the bombers reserves team by over 100 points in the last game of the H&A season to win either 13 or 14 games. It was a very average group of teams outside of the top 2 that year.

Anyway, it was widely assumed that it was a fluke and that the saints had peaked under GT and RL wasn't taking the club anywhere special. My point? Not that we'll come out next year and play like we did in 09, but that predictions mean jack s***, especially at this time of year, and especially by pundits calling talkback shows or voting on polls. The majority support the bigger clubs I'm quietly confident that we can improve next year, but much of it depends on King and Marshall remaining healthy.

That recollection is 'spot on' Moods.

In Lyon's first year, 2007, the team had 11 wins, 1 draw and 10 losses to finish 9th.

2nd year 2008 13/9 and 4th, lost in PF

3rd year 2009 20/2 and 1st, lost in GF

4th year 2010 15//6 and 3rd, lost in GF

This year, his first one back at the helm, St Kilda finsihed 6th with 13/10, with a list that was substantially less talented and experienced than he inherited previously.

Pretty well all commentators who have looked at all of the clubs' draft performances have rated St Kilda as having done well and improved the list.

Lyon is a much more experienced coach this time around and is supported by a first class coacing panel, which to me gives good reasons to believe that St Kilda will advance further up the ladder in 2024.

[shanegrambeau]

Shout out to Tim Watson for his predictions for 2023. Not bad at all.

Tim Watson (SEN Breakfast)

PREMIERS: Melbourne
RUNNERS-UP: Brisbane
WOODEN SPOON: North Melbourne
BROWNLOW: Christian Petracca
COLEMAN: Jeremy Cameron
RISING STAR: Will Ashcroft
BIGGEST IMPROVER: Adelaide
BIGGEST SLIDER: Richmond

MArk Duffield and David King not bad.
and
David 'Flash' Lithgow (SEN Tassie picked the Saits as the biggest improvers
The rest were so off the mark.
Freo, Collingwood and St Kilda being consistently picked as sliders.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/03/15/ ... edictions/

[Vortex]

Those with a good memory will remember after the 08 finals series that everyone predicted that we would slide down the ladder. We finished top 4 by smashing the bombers reserves team by over 100 points in the last game of the H&A season to win either 13 or 14 games. It was a very average group of teams outside of the top 2 that year.

Anyway, it was widely assumed that it was a fluke and that the saints had peaked under GT and RL wasn't taking the club anywhere special. My point? Not that we'll come out next year and play like we did in 09, but that predictions mean jack s***, especially at this time of year, and especially by pundits calling talkback shows or voting on polls. The majority support the bigger clubs I'm quietly confident that we can improve next year, but much of it depends on King and Marshall remaining healthy.

That recollection is 'spot on' Moods.

In Lyon's first year, 2007, the team had 11 wins, 1 draw and 10 losses to finish 9th.

2nd year 2008 13/9 and 4th, lost in PF

3rd year 2009 20/2 and 1st, lost in GF

4th year 2010 15//6 and 3rd, lost in GF

This year, his first one back at the helm, St Kilda finsihed 6th with 13/10, with a list that was substantially less talented and experienced than he inherited previously.

Pretty well all commentators who have looked at all of the clubs' draft performances have rated St Kilda as having done well and improved the list.

Lyon is a much more experienced coach this time around and is supported by a first class coacing panel, which to me gives good reasons to believe that St Kilda will advance further up the ladder in 2024.

It's ridiculous to make any type of comparison with 2008, the list profiles are completely different. That team Ross took over was chock full of stars and right in the sweet spot to have a tilt at a flag, this current list is a good few years away from being capable of contending.

[saynta]

Those with a good memory will remember after the 08 finals series that everyone predicted that we would slide down the ladder. We finished top 4 by smashing the bombers reserves team by over 100 points in the last game of the H&A season to win either 13 or 14 games. It was a very average group of teams outside of the top 2 that year.

Anyway, it was widely assumed that it was a fluke and that the saints had peaked under GT and RL wasn't taking the club anywhere special. My point? Not that we'll come out next year and play like we did in 09, but that predictions mean jack s***, especially at this time of year, and especially by pundits calling talkback shows or voting on polls. The majority support the bigger clubs I'm quietly confident that we can improve next year, but much of it depends on King and Marshall remaining healthy.

That recollection is 'spot on' Moods.

In Lyon's first year, 2007, the team had 11 wins, 1 draw and 10 losses to finish 9th.

2nd year 2008 13/9 and 4th, lost in PF

3rd year 2009 20/2 and 1st, lost in GF

4th year 2010 15//6 and 3rd, lost in GF

This year, his first one back at the helm, St Kilda finsihed 6th with 13/10, with a list that was substantially less talented and experienced than he inherited previously.

Pretty well all commentators who have looked at all of the clubs' draft performances have rated St Kilda as having done well and improved the list.

Lyon is a much more experienced coach this time around and is supported by a first class coacing panel, which to me gives good reasons to believe that St Kilda will advance further up the ladder in 2024.

It's ridiculous to make any type of comparison with 2008, the list profiles are completely different. That team Ross took over was chock full of stars and right in the sweet spot to have a tilt at a flag, this current list is a good few years away from being capable of contending.

You really are a wet blanket

[Vortex]

Just keep it real at least otherwise it's incredibly hard not to keep posters accountable who insist on not being vaguely accurate.

[Otiman]

Ross said it so many times last year, the competition is so even.

To slide from 6th to 14th would only require a few tweaks the wrong way, some injuries, or even luck.

By the same token, we were about the same distance away from top 2.

When you look at list profile we are definitely on the rise rather than falling. Clubs like Richmond and Geelong are where Hawthorn and West Coast were a few years back.

The only way we could fall is if we prioritise 1st and 2nd year player selections. Which IMO is the right thing to do.

[Vortex]

Even competition from about 5th to 15th.

There is generally a fairly big gap between this group and the top 2 to 4 in most seasons.

The occasional outlier pinches it like the Dogs in 2016 but those types of flags are as regular as Haley’s Comet.

In reality land we are currently in Death Valley, aka the middle of the ladder, and as Ross and Chris Scott said recently, it is a place of significant disadvantage.

We were aided last year by a weak draw and many results by teams around us on the ladder going our way, can this happen 2 years in a row?

Hopefully we don’t have the same rotten luck with injuries this year, mainly so we get a full glance at what this list is capable of when they play a string of games together, as well as for fast tracking the development of individuals.

So whilst we might hope to get some luck on the injury front and get some experience and conditioning back in 2024, we also now have a sizeable group of kids that will even that equation back the other way. So we need to be realistic about our list profile and any fanciful comparisons to the 2007 to 2010 list profile and how much magic Ross is actually capable of.

The core of all these new recruits will take a few years to get 50 to 70 games of experience and conditioning before they are capable of standing up in the final 2 weeks of a season.

It’s a time thing.

[shanegrambeau]

Collingwood - Premiers

Number of wins.

2014 - 11
2015 - 10
2016 - 9
2017 - 9
2018 - 15
2019 - 15
2020 - 9
2021 - 6
2022 - 16
2023 - 18

Not sure I believe that there is a systemic mediocrity thing that applies to all teams.
For teams like Nth, StKilda and the Bulldogs, there are unique challenges though. Not excuses, but challenges.

I would say roller coaster is just as bankable as valley.

[NickyDal]

Ross said it so many times last year, the competition is so even.

To slide from 6th to 14th would only require a few tweaks the wrong way, some injuries, or even luck.

By the same token, we were about the same distance away from top 2.

When you look at list profile we are definitely on the rise rather than falling. Clubs like Richmond and Geelong are were Hawthorn and West Coast were a few years back.

The only way we could fall is if we prioritise 1st and 2nd year player selections. Which IMO is the right thing to do.

We all know about luck. 2009 toe poke & 2010 ball bouncing viciously to the right otherwise known as an off break.

[Scollop]

Collingwood didn't accidentally make a Grand Final in 2018. They had 6-7 All Australians and quality on their list with stars who were there in the years leading up to 2018 driving standards. Some had only retired or moved on in 2014-2016.

Most of the following Collingwood players had been nominated several times in the 40 man AA squads

Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Dane Swan, Heath Shaw, Brodie Grundy, Adam Treloar, and Jeremy Howe. More recently it's been Taylor Adams, Jordan DeGoey, Braydon Maynard and Darcy Moore. And Josh Daicos and Nick Daicos in 2023.

Prior to Jack Steele earning AA honours in 2020, I don't think we had a Saints player in the team for several years. Sebby was nominated in the 40 man squad in 2017. RoMa also in the squad in 2023 and Wilkie and Sincs have joined Steele as AA's but we aren't anywhere near the quality of Collingwood in recent times

[Vortex]

Collingwood didn't accidentally make a Grand Final in 2018. They had 6-7 All Australians and quality on their list with stars who were there in the years leading up to 2018 driving standards. Some had only retired or moved on in 2014-2016.

Most of the following Collingwood players had been nominated several times in the 40 man AA squads

Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Dane Swan, Heath Shaw, Brodie Grundy, Adam Treloar, and Jeremy Howe. More recently it's been Taylor Adams, Jordan DeGoey, Braydon Maynard and Darcy Moore. And Josh Daicos and Nick Daicos in 2023.

Prior to Jack Steele earning AA honours in 2020, I don't think we had a Saints player in the team for several years. Sebby was nominated in the 40 man squad in 2017. RoMa also in the squad in 2023 and Wilkie and Sincs have joined Steele as AA's but we aren't anywhere near the quality of Collingwood in recent times

Posted not long after the GF the Pies could miss the 8 next year due to the disproportionate number of 30+ players on their list next year. Bookmark it.

[shanegrambeau]

From 2017 - 9 wins to 2018 - 15 wins, Collingwood’s list changed very little.

Apart from Lachlan Keeffe who went in to GWS to be moderately successful, they delisted and retired a handful of no names.

Just shows how fickle? It can be?

[samuraisaint]

Collingwood - Premiers

Number of wins.

2014 - 11
2015 - 10
2016 - 9
2017 - 9
2018 - 15
2019 - 15
2020 - 9
2021 - 6
2022 - 16
2023 - 18

Not sure I believe that there is a systemic mediocrity thing that applies to all teams.
For teams like Nth, StKilda and the Bulldogs, there are unique challenges though. Not excuses, but challenges.

I would say roller coaster is just as bankable as valley.

Interesting how we get lumped in with North and Footscray.
We got nearly 69,000 of our own supporters to a final this year. Not sure those clubs could manage that.
Notwithstanding the fact that both those clubs have won Grand Finals in living memory.

[samuraisaint]

Those with a good memory will remember after the 08 finals series that everyone predicted that we would slide down the ladder. We finished top 4 by smashing the bombers reserves team by over 100 points in the last game of the H&A season to win either 13 or 14 games. It was a very average group of teams outside of the top 2 that year.

Anyway, it was widely assumed that it was a fluke and that the saints had peaked under GT and RL wasn't taking the club anywhere special. My point? Not that we'll come out next year and play like we did in 09, but that predictions mean jack s***, especially at this time of year, and especially by pundits calling talkback shows or voting on polls. The majority support the bigger clubs I'm quietly confident that we can improve next year, but much of it depends on King and Marshall remaining healthy.

Exactly right - everybody, even our own supporters, felt that our ship had sailed after 2007. Turned out to be a roller coaster rise for the next four seasons, during which we played in three Prelims and 2 Grand Finals and a Grand Final replay.

[samuraisaint]

Those with a good memory will remember after the 08 finals series that everyone predicted that we would slide down the ladder. We finished top 4 by smashing the bombers reserves team by over 100 points in the last game of the H&A season to win either 13 or 14 games. It was a very average group of teams outside of the top 2 that year.

Anyway, it was widely assumed that it was a fluke and that the saints had peaked under GT and RL wasn't taking the club anywhere special. My point? Not that we'll come out next year and play like we did in 09, but that predictions mean jack s***, especially at this time of year, and especially by pundits calling talkback shows or voting on polls. The majority support the bigger clubs I'm quietly confident that we can improve next year, but much of it depends on King and Marshall remaining healthy.

That recollection is 'spot on' Moods.

In Lyon's first year, 2007, the team had 11 wins, 1 draw and 10 losses to finish 9th.

2nd year 2008 13/9 and 4th, lost in PF

3rd year 2009 20/2 and 1st, lost in GF

4th year 2010 15//6 and 3rd, lost in GF

This year, his first one back at the helm, St Kilda finsihed 6th with 13/10, with a list that was substantially less talented and experienced than he inherited previously.

Pretty well all commentators who have looked at all of the clubs' draft performances have rated St Kilda as having done well and improved the list.

Lyon is a much more experienced coach this time around and is supported by a first class coacing panel, which to me gives good reasons to believe that St Kilda will advance further up the ladder in 2024.

It's ridiculous to make any type of comparison with 2008, the list profiles are completely different. That team Ross took over was chock full of stars and right in the sweet spot to have a tilt at a flag, this current list is a good few years away from being capable of contending.

Our bottom six now is better than our bottom six then. Our list is a lot more even. Wait until Owens, Windy, NWM, Matteas, and Caminiti are 21 years old in a year or so.

[samuraisaint]

Reckon we are building a list more comparable with Freo 2013-2015 than St. Kilda 2008-11 FWIW.
Stronger on the wings, and a lot more emphasis on having a physical presence on the half back and half forward flanks.

[samuraisaint]

Last season we lacked pace, skill and height. We seem to have addressed the lack of pace and to a lesser extent the skill may improve but we still lack a couple of quality talls that said I would expect a slight improvement but other teams may improve more so we could struggle to play finals

Put King, Hayes, and Membrey back in that team and there are no more height problems.

[samuraisaint]

I actually thought we bottomed out prior to 3/4 time against North.
After that we played some pretty good footy...Including putting Richmond and Geelong officially out of the finals.
We lost to Carlton (who are actually better than us) after outplaying them for the first half.
And we lost to Brisbane by 2 goals in a close game all day when we rested Max King.

Then the final...Losing Membrey in the manner we did on the eve of the final didn't help us in so many ways.
Membrey and King work very well together. Caminiti, at the moment, is a headless chook at times and that was shown in the final.
Not to mention the emotional effect his incident had on the players. AFL clubs are way more close knit that other work places.

Give us a full season of Membrey, King, and Hayes and it allows Caminiti to develop in the twos and also stops Owens from going into the ruck.
We should be better in 2024 than we were in 2023.

+1
RL's sides require a big full forward, or more accurately a big mobile forward. He had it with us, with big Fraser and then Roo, and at Freo with Matthew Pavlich. If King can play consistently in 2024, we will win more games than we won this year. King is dangerous at ground level and really is such an important player for us.

[Vortex]

Those with a good memory will remember after the 08 finals series that everyone predicted that we would slide down the ladder. We finished top 4 by smashing the bombers reserves team by over 100 points in the last game of the H&A season to win either 13 or 14 games. It was a very average group of teams outside of the top 2 that year.

Anyway, it was widely assumed that it was a fluke and that the saints had peaked under GT and RL wasn't taking the club anywhere special. My point? Not that we'll come out next year and play like we did in 09, but that predictions mean jack s***, especially at this time of year, and especially by pundits calling talkback shows or voting on polls. The majority support the bigger clubs I'm quietly confident that we can improve next year, but much of it depends on King and Marshall remaining healthy.

That recollection is 'spot on' Moods.

In Lyon's first year, 2007, the team had 11 wins, 1 draw and 10 losses to finish 9th.

2nd year 2008 13/9 and 4th, lost in PF

3rd year 2009 20/2 and 1st, lost in GF

4th year 2010 15//6 and 3rd, lost in GF

This year, his first one back at the helm, St Kilda finsihed 6th with 13/10, with a list that was substantially less talented and experienced than he inherited previously.

Pretty well all commentators who have looked at all of the clubs' draft performances have rated St Kilda as having done well and improved the list.

Lyon is a much more experienced coach this time around and is supported by a first class coacing panel, which to me gives good reasons to believe that St Kilda will advance further up the ladder in 2024.

It's ridiculous to make any type of comparison with 2008, the list profiles are completely different. That team Ross took over was chock full of stars and right in the sweet spot to have a tilt at a flag, this current list is a good few years away from being capable of contending.

Our bottom six now is better than our bottom six then. Our list is a lot more even. Wait until Owens, Windy, NWM, Matteas, and Caminiti are 21 years old in a year or so.

We have somewhat of a wait to know if we even have a top 12 that will be comparable with that team let alone claim we have a better bottom 6 than that team.