Will Paddy Dow and Liam Henry make us better?

[damienc]

Now there’s a question.

Here’s another. Who’s brave enough to answer it?

There are no guarantees in life or footy. But I’m going to say yes.

I base that answer on the following. There’s a consensus here and elsewhere that SOS and Gubby drive who we chase during trade week.

I think it’s partly true but do not underestimate how much RTB is driving this. Ross had history with Liam at Freo. And it was revealed he was seriously involved in trying to persuade Paddy to choose the Saints from earlier this year.

I think RTB was of the view that Carlton didn’t handle Paddy all that well. Dow is a much better player than Carlton believes. That Paddy’s best footy is still ahead of him and that he can bring out the best in him.

Paddy had a great end to the 2023 season. He showed some serious glimpses of what he might be capable of. An inside mid who can give us first use at stoppages who has a good burst of speed.

We need speed. Henry and Paddy are quick. Liam is also a player who has good skills and footy smarts.

Like I said. There are no guarantees. But if Henry and Dow turn out the way I hope the answer to my question won’t just be yes.

[skeptic]

I’m a yes as well.

Am very bullish on Pow in particular. We got in his ear mid-year… RTB or whoever encouraged him and he buckled down and finished the year strongly.

Now he’s got a pint to prove and a bit of self belief in him… I reckon he’s going to bust his gut and come out firing.

Reckon he’ll be a good point of difference

[B.M]

Depends

Does those additions offset Gresham, Coffield and Billings?

[bobmurray]

Depends

Does those additions offset Gresham, Coffield and Billings?

Hopefully Dow and Henry never keep the Saints medical team as busy as what those 3 ex Saints did.

[Teflon]

We lack midfield dash and Dow has elite hands - also be a leader in centre bounce clearances so he improves us immediately in a weak spot that Billing’s Gresham or Coffield couldn’t

Henry is still young but starting to show signs of putting it together- has superb running ability with pace
Nothing Gresham (wing ..no) Billing’s or Coffield could offer - at 22 he fills a need

We still have to get the best out of these guys but I see then adding to our gaps

Now a gun burst mid would be nice…

[saintsRrising]

Depends

Does those additions offset Gresham, Coffield and Billings?

For St Kilda yes. As Dow and Henry will be in the seniors

For Sandy no. For if those three had stayed, at least 2, and may be even all three would have been back up players mainly playing for Sandy.

[Vortex]

Dow had an OKish end to the 2023 season without lighting the world on fire and he had the huge luxury of being the 4th and 5th banana behind some very elite soldiers who would have demanded all of the opposition's attention so easy to get off the chain in that class of company.

Whereas our midfield is in desperate need of said very elite soldiers so the question really is can Paddy grow into that category of a midfielder whilst being the number 1 banana in a much weaker midfield?

Is Paddy, one banna, two banana, three banana or four banana more at St Kilda? We won't know without a sample size.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

I'm wondering if Henry can take over the running half-back role, alongside NWM, freeing up Sinclair to be a permanent mid. Throw Owens into the midfireld, too, accepting the extracted ball directly from Dow, and you have a very different midfireld paradigm. Nor is an injury-free Jones to be forgotten, or the emeging Hotton.

[cwrcyn]

Wood has basically taken the role Billings used to play, and does it better. Wood is super fit and can play for at least two more seasons. That's a net gain because Billings would only have been a back up player under Lyon.

Coffield hasn't played for two years, so it's hard to say if we will miss him, especially considering how well Wanganeen-Milera has done in the same position. I'd say we've got it covered, even if Coffield does well at WB. There are only so many players you can play in the back half. I'm hoping McLennan can develop into a Coffield type.

Henry v Gresham? I'm sure Gresham will do well at Essendon. His selfish style of play will suit them. He'll kick goals and do some good things, no doubt. He's a talented player. What Henry should give us is more flexibility. He can play forward, wing, or half back. Gresham has become an 85% small forward and with Essendon's strong midfield, that's where it will stay. I'd say we will break even on this one, with potential for a win.

Dow is an addition to our midfield, not a replacement for anyone. Clearance is our weak spot, and that is Dow's strength, so hopefully he can realise his potential and give us a lift in there. It'll be a plus.


What have we been lacking in recent times? Additional speed and run and competitive clearances. Henry and Dow will help us there.

The changes won't make us go backwards. At worst it'll be a break even. Now we just have to nail the draft.

[samuraisaint]

Dow had an OKish end to the 2023 season without lighting the world on fire and he had the huge luxury of being the 4th and 5th banana behind some very elite soldiers who would have demanded all of the opposition's attention so easy to get off the chain in that class of company.

Whereas our midfield is in desperate need of said very elite soldiers so the question really is can Paddy grow into that category of a midfielder whilst being the number 1 banana in a much weaker midfield?

Is Paddy, one banna, two banana, three banana or four banana more at St Kilda? We won't know without a sample size.

Nice Banana Splits reference!

[CQ SAINT]

Gresham and Billings have been able to get the ball in a list, devoid of impact players, but neither of them are in the game breaker category.

In the last 2 years:
Coffield hasn't played.
Billings has averaged 16d and a few marks and is a forward who doesn't kick goals very often. Phillipou is only 3 possessions behind him.
Gresham has lost his impact and became a mid with terrible disposal.

Billings and Gresh get kicks because they are in the game plan. They are no longe in the game plan because they don't have the skills to match their pay checks.

We just dumped nearly $4m in payments for $500k and it was a great move for our future.

NWM, Owens, Windhager and Pou, as a group, are DEVELOPING. They have a CURRENT projection in their careers that indicates our list is getting better organically.

They should offset Gresh and that other bloke Billings, Coffield was a terrible waste but useless to us for two years anyway and didn't have a role to claim.

If you think otherwise, then you are relying on 3 year old form form and still waiting on POTENTIAL.

Henry and Dow are a bonus

[D.B.Cooper]

Henry?
Very hopeful, plenty of upside, vg pace.
Will suit RTB game style.
If he can tidy up disposal could be a good player.

Dow?
Most overrated player on this forum.
Butt average player, ball butcher.
Since we’ve recruited him he’s now a lightning quick clearance beast with elite hands that Carlton underrated

I hope Dow tears it up and he will be given plenty of opportunity, but he’s not a walk up best 22 IMO.

I bet SOS takes the other Carlton dud O’Brien as a DFA.

[samoht]

Dow averaged 16 possessions with 53% game time this year.
Will be averaging closer to 25 possessions with us, with decent game time.

Disposal can't be worse than Gresham's?

Something he can work at improving, anyway.

[saynta]

Dow had an OKish end to the 2023 season without lighting the world on fire and he had the huge luxury of being the 4th and 5th banana behind some very elite soldiers who would have demanded all of the opposition's attention so easy to get off the chain in that class of company.

Whereas our midfield is in desperate need of said very elite soldiers so the question really is can Paddy grow into that category of a midfielder whilst being the number 1 banana in a much weaker midfield?

Is Paddy, one banna, two banana, three banana or four banana more at St Kilda? We won't know without a sample size.

Mind you don't slip on one of your f****** banana skins.

[Saintmike65]

Dow averaged 16 possessions with 53% game time this year.
Will be averaging closer to 25 possessions with us, with decent game time.

Disposal can't be worse than Gresham's?

Something he can work at improving, anyway.

Dow has very quick hands that he can utilise in congestion…he will benefit with continuity in his footy, as Stocker did.

[saynta]

Now there’s a question.

Here’s another. Who’s brave enough to answer it?

There are no guarantees in life or footy. But I’m going to say yes.

I base that answer on the following. There’s a consensus here and elsewhere that SOS and Gubby drive who we chase during trade week.

I think it’s partly true but do not underestimate how much RTB is driving this. Ross had history with Liam at Freo. And it was revealed he was seriously involved in trying to persuade Paddy to choose the Saints from earlier this year.

I think RTB was of the view that Carlton didn’t handle Paddy all that well. Dow is a much better player than Carlton believes. That Paddy’s best footy is still ahead of him and that he can bring out the best in him.

Paddy had a great end to the 2023 season. He showed some serious glimpses of what he might be capable of. An inside mid who can give us first use at stoppages who has a good burst of speed.

We need speed. Henry and Paddy are quick. Liam is also a player who has good skills and footy smarts.

Like I said. There are no guarantees. But if Henry and Dow turn out the way I hope the answer to my question won’t just be yes.

Simple question, simple answer. YES.

[Mr Magic]

Am I understanding this correctly?
Is Dow a similar version of Bytel but with leg speed?

[Vortex]

Dow averaged 16 possessions with 53% game time this year.
Will be averaging closer to 25 possessions with us, with decent game time.

Disposal can't be worse than Gresham's?

Something he can work at improving, anyway.

Dow has very quick hands that he can utilise in congestion…he will benefit with continuity in his footy, as Stocker did.

Stocker wasn’t that impressive as the season got older, did he even end up playing in the final?

A big year for Stocker, Lyon gave him a lifeline when no other club would but he seemed to stumble and splutter with his opportunity, let’s hope his 2nd year at the club is a lot more consistent.

[B.M]

I thought Stocker was solid when he played.

[Vortex]

I thought Stocker was solid when he played.

Yeah he was but his second half form wasn’t the same standard as say his first 6 to 8 games, was dropped a couple of times also I think. Only 42% ToG in the final for 10 touches.

[magnifisaint]

Gresham...ha ha.
Coffield stunned as a deer in headlights
Off course they will.

[Sanctorum]

A damned sight better!

[damienc]

Since we’ve recruited him he’s now a lightning quick clearance beast with elite hands that Carlton underrated

Who's saying this apart from you?

I will say there's a hope he can become this. Let's all hope. If he is, we will be much better.

The club clearly rates him.

Laugh on. But let's also hope Paddy has the last laugh.

[Vortex]

A damned sight better!

Who does he remind you of?

[cwrcyn]

My brother in law is a mad Carlton supporter. Goes to just about every game. His assessment of Dow is that he is a very good clearance player, but outside of clearances he doesn't get involved enough and his disposal is bog average, ( probably in the same league as Seb Ross)

We got him to fill a weakness in our game. We had games this year where we were obliterated at clearances. If Dow can improve our ability to win those clearances, then his recruitment will be good value for minimum outlay. Given some belief from our coaches and without his history hanging over him like a dark shadow like it was at Carlton, he should have a clear mind to go full steam ahead from here. There's a chance he could blossom.

Remember, Mason Wood came from a similar situation, and we know how that has turned out