Damning Statistic

[Sanctorum]

Reading an article on The Roar about Jack Billings' move to Melbourne, Finn Arrowsmith noted a very interesting fact about St Kilda during the Alan Richardson era:

"Player development was non-existent under new coach Alan Richardson; from the four drafts after Ross Lyon left in 2011, exactly one player (Dan McKenzie) will be on the Saints’ list in 2024."

And as we know, Dan McKenzie has been dogged by chronic injuries wich has limited his appearances to just 24 games between 2021-2023, not one this year.

It's a strong condemnation of both poor recruiting and player development under Richo, who was senior coach from 2014 to 2019, and goes a long way to explain why St Kilda languished outside the eight all of those years.

It also reflects poorly on the club president (Peter Summers) and board for failing to realise that the team's off-field personnel were not capable of carrying out their responsibilities to an acceptable and satisfactory level.

The elevation of Andrew Bassat in 2019 as club president is likely to have led to the major cleanout of the football department and the welcome turnaround that we have witnessed since the end of 2022.

That it took Bassat 4 years to convince the board of the need for this action might seem like haven taken far too long, but I expect that is not unusual in the corporate world.

We can at least be thankful that it did finally occurr!

[shanegrambeau]

It isn't great reading, Is it?

Seems from afar, that the Seaford Saints were not a magnet for players and talent, but i am sure that is unfair.

Just the other day, I was pondering. How many players have we got from successful clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong in recent decades? I am sure i am missing someone, but feels like zero. Did we get anyone from those teams?

We just couldn't get a trick, could we?


I am not over st Kilda dropping the ball over the Junction Oval in 2014 and i am damn sure it would have made us more attractive for players, support staff, corporate and fans..but I will get over it..(or not)

[Vortex]

Reading an article on The Roar about Jack Billings' move to Melbourne, Finn Arrowsmith noted a very interesting fact about St Kilda during the Alan Richardson era:

"Player development was non-existent under new coach Alan Richardson; from the four drafts after Ross Lyon left in 2011, exactly one player (Dan McKenzie) will be on the Saints’ list in 2024."

And as we know, Dan McKenzie has been dogged by chronic injuries wich has limited his appearances to just 24 games between 2021-2023, not one this year.

It's a strong condemnation of both poor recruiting and player development under Richo, who was senior coach from 2014 to 2019, and goes a long way to explain why St Kilda languished outside the eight all of those years.

It also reflects poorly on the club president (Peter Summers) and board for failing to realise that the team's off-field personnel were not capable of carrying out their responsibilities to an acceptable and satisfactory level.

The elevation of Andrew Bassat in 2019 as club president is likely to have led to the major cleanout of the football department and the welcome turnaround that we have witnessed since the end of 2022.

That it took Bassat 4 years to convince the board of the need for this action might seem like haven taken far too long, but I expect that is not unusual in the corporate world.

We can at least be thankful that it did finally occurr!

Bassett is as clueless as they come, I framed the letter from Bassett and have it hung on the wall behind my bar that told me we would be in premiership contention in 2022.

Selecting Lyon was not only a “Captains” pick but a complete Hail Mary out of desperation to save his own skin and that of Lethers. They have absolutely no clue about running a club and clearly didn’t have any management systems in place to measure and control in a timely manner, corporate 101.

So please let’s not re write history and make it sound like Bassett spent 4 years concocting a plan…he had nothing.

Fortunately for Bassett by the time he realised he was in trouble Lyon was available so good luck rather than a cunning plan.

Now all he needs to hope like hell is that Lyon has learnt something about player development because he sucked at it during his time at Freo and left with a winning percentage of 33% in his last 4 years there which ironically is the same winning percentage as Richo.

Let’s not pump the tyres prematurely until we look like we might be capable of contending. A long way off it.

[takeaway]

Reading an article on The Roar about Jack Billings' move to Melbourne, Finn Arrowsmith noted a very interesting fact about St Kilda during the Alan Richardson era:

"Player development was non-existent under new coach Alan Richardson; from the four drafts after Ross Lyon left in 2011, exactly one player (Dan McKenzie) will be on the Saints’ list in 2024."

And as we know, Dan McKenzie has been dogged by chronic injuries wich has limited his appearances to just 24 games between 2021-2023, not one this year.

It's a strong condemnation of both poor recruiting and player development under Richo, who was senior coach from 2014 to 2019, and goes a long way to explain why St Kilda languished outside the eight all of those years.

It also reflects poorly on the club president (Peter Summers) and board for failing to realise that the team's off-field personnel were not capable of carrying out their responsibilities to an acceptable and satisfactory level.

The elevation of Andrew Bassat in 2019 as club president is likely to have led to the major cleanout of the football department and the welcome turnaround that we have witnessed since the end of 2022.

That it took Bassat 4 years to convince the board of the need for this action might seem like haven taken far too long, but I expect that is not unusual in the corporate world.

We can at least be thankful that it did finally occurr!

I'm not condoning the Richo era, or the one before, (Watters), but "one player left from the 4 drafts after Ross left in 2011" (2011-2014 drafts?) has limited relevance.

I would think that most clubs would have very few players that they drafted in those years remaining at the club.

Triple flag winners, Richmond, a quick look - 3 left that I can see. Perennial finals team, Geelong - 3. Some teams may have a few more, but I don't think you can draw too much solely from that comment.

[lewdogs]

Is McKenzie even a guarantee to be on the list? Don't think he has a contract yet.

[King Max]

"Player development was non-existent under new coach Alan Richardson; from the four drafts after Ross Lyon left in 2011, exactly one player (Dan McKenzie) will be on the Saints’ list in 2024."

I think they are being very selective with their damning stat.

Lyon left in September 2011. Seb Ross and Jimmy Webster were drafted in November 2011 but they’re not included.

And we’ll just ignore our reigning Trevor Barker medallist and All Australian who we picked up in the rookie draft in 2014.

[Devilhead]

Since 2014 (when Richo was appointed) only 7 teams have won the Flag.... so 11 teams haven't

To win a flag you need luck with drafting, recruiting, injuries, fixturing and of course coaching, player development, list management and club stability also play a part and they all have to align perfectly and hope that they don't for the other 17 teams

[skeptic]

Since 2014 (when Richo was appointed) only 7 teams have won the Flag.... so 11 teams haven't

To win a flag you need luck with drafting, recruiting, injuries, fixturing and of course coaching, player development, list management and club stability also play a part and they all have to align perfectly and hope that they don't for the other 17 teams

You also need to make the finals… another cross for Richo

[Teflon]

Reading an article on The Roar about Jack Billings' move to Melbourne, Finn Arrowsmith noted a very interesting fact about St Kilda during the Alan Richardson era:

"Player development was non-existent under new coach Alan Richardson; from the four drafts after Ross Lyon left in 2011, exactly one player (Dan McKenzie) will be on the Saints’ list in 2024."

And as we know, Dan McKenzie has been dogged by chronic injuries wich has limited his appearances to just 24 games between 2021-2023, not one this year.

It's a strong condemnation of both poor recruiting and player development under Richo, who was senior coach from 2014 to 2019, and goes a long way to explain why St Kilda languished outside the eight all of those years.

It also reflects poorly on the club president (Peter Summers) and board for failing to realise that the team's off-field personnel were not capable of carrying out their responsibilities to an acceptable and satisfactory level.

The elevation of Andrew Bassat in 2019 as club president is likely to have led to the major cleanout of the football department and the welcome turnaround that we have witnessed since the end of 2022.

That it took Bassat 4 years to convince the board of the need for this action might seem like haven taken far too long, but I expect that is not unusual in the corporate world.

We can at least be thankful that it did finally occurr!

Bassett is as clueless as they come, I framed the letter from Bassett and have it hung on the wall behind my bar that told me we would be in premiership contention in 2022.

Selecting Lyon was not only a “Captains” pick but a complete Hail Mary out of desperation to save his own skin and that of Lethers. They have absolutely no clue about running a club and clearly didn’t have any management systems in place to measure and control in a timely manner, corporate 101.

So please let’s not re write history and make it sound like Bassett spent 4 years concocting a plan…he had nothing.

Fortunately for Bassett by the time he realised he was in trouble Lyon was available so good luck rather than a cunning plan.

Now all he needs to hope like hell is that Lyon has learnt something about player development because he sucked at it during his time at Freo and left with a winning percentage of 33% in his last 4 years there which ironically is the same winning percentage as Richo.

Let’s not pump the tyres prematurely until we look like we might be capable of contending. A long way off it.

That’s all true to an extent
Was Bassatt too trusting of his previous footy Dept heads - yep
Were the Board? Yep
Did it take too long to work out we had cabbages in charge? Yes
But, unlike Summers et al, he did do something about it
Took the heat over Ratten …knew the cr@p would come and did it anyway
Oh I don’t think Bassat needs the gig enough to “save his own skin”
I think he’s there (reluctantly I read) to genuinely do something
So yeah we can be keyboard hindsight warriors …pretending how we would “put in corporate performance koi frameworks” so we have our finger on the pulse blah blah blah
But I for one am glad for the first time in 10 years the club appears to have sone semblance of footy professionalism in the joint
Oh and Serong and Brayshaw are doing nicely out of Lyons development and I note Henry only come cause he rated Lyon during his developmental years ….and this year?? Roscoe has played kids (and been criticised for it) but kept at it
I think we are in far better hands than we’ve been in previous

[SaintPav]

Perhaps the players recruited were just not good enough.

I have a suspicion that there have been problems throughout the club and player life cycle over a long period: recruitment, player development, training, fitness and conditioning, player welfare, management, leadership and coaching at ALL levels.

Wicked problems…

[Scollop]

We actually compare quite well if you look at how many draftees from 2011 to 2014 are still playing AFL.

However we did finish 16th in 2013 and last in 2018 so you'd think with top 10 picks, we had a better chance of picking up talent with potential for 200+ games.

2013 and 2014 should have been the period to set up up but as mentioned by other posters, leadership was poor and that includes staff in the football department and those in the boardroom

Click on the 'Club' and you can see all trades as well as picks in the National draft.

https://www.draftguru.com.au/clubs

[Vortex]

I think he’s there (reluctantly I read)


I think we are in far better hands than we’ve been in previous

You read correctly, Bassett is open about his acceptance of the role as being a reluctant acceptance which is not necessarily a bad thing because sometimes the best leaders start out as being reluctant, but that is normally associated with being unsure if they are capable of being successful in the role and not because they not sure if they have the right amount of time to apply to the role.

Whereas if you are familiar with Bassets business dealings at the time of accepting the role you will know he was capable of being incredibly focused on anything but our footy club hence why it was easy to be fed BS and that is squarely on him, you accept the role then you take it seriously, he was a fan more than a president.

You could go down a rabbit hole on the topic of AFL club boards but essentially for many who claw their way into board positions is mostly for personal gain reasons.

As far as being in better hands, I want a much bigger sample size and I feel justified in that view based on how poorly the club has performed over an incredibly long long time.

[shanegrambeau]

Reading an article on The Roar about Jack Billings' move to Melbourne, Finn Arrowsmith noted a very interesting fact about St Kilda during the Alan Richardson era:

"Player development was non-existent under new coach Alan Richardson; from the four drafts after Ross Lyon left in 2011, exactly one player (Dan McKenzie) will be on the Saints’ list in 2024."



The elevation of Andrew Bassat in 2019 as club president is likely to have led to the major cleanout ...

Bassett is as clueless ..

That’s all true to an extent

Was Bassatt too trusting of his previous footy Dept heads - yep

Were the Board? Yep

Did it take too long to work out we had cabbages in charge? Yes

But, unlike Summers et al, he did do something about it

Took the heat over Ratten …knew the cr@p would come and did it anyway

..... we are in far better hands than ... previous

Teffers's sentiment for mine.

Makes sense.

So Bassat saw the light and made changes...

What is wrong with that?

People can and do make adjustments ..

Now it may all go pear-shaped again, but it seems, from a long way away at least, that some ballsy decisions were needed and that they were made.

[Sanctorum]

Reading an article on The Roar about Jack Billings' move to Melbourne, Finn Arrowsmith noted a very interesting fact about St Kilda during the Alan Richardson era:

"Player development was non-existent under new coach Alan Richardson; from the four drafts after Ross Lyon left in 2011, exactly one player (Dan McKenzie) will be on the Saints’ list in 2024."



The elevation of Andrew Bassat in 2019 as club president is likely to have led to the major cleanout ...

Bassett is as clueless ..

That’s all true to an extent

Was Bassatt too trusting of his previous footy Dept heads - yep

Were the Board? Yep

Did it take too long to work out we had cabbages in charge? Yes

But, unlike Summers et al, he did do something about it

Took the heat over Ratten …knew the cr@p would come and did it anyway

..... we are in far better hands than ... previous

Teffers's sentiment for mine.

Makes sense.

So Bassat saw the light and made changes...

What is wrong with that?

People can and do make adjustments ..

Now it may all go pear-shaped again, but it seems, from a long way away at least, that some ballsy decisions were needed and that they were made.

Mine too Shane, it's all very well to complain that Bassat took a long time to make the brutal call to overhaul the entire football department this time last year but I'm sure that he would have had to do a lot of persuading to get the other directors behind him.

He's not a hard nosed autocratic populist club president like Eddie or Jeff, in fact he comes across as quite mild mannered, but definitely a lot more dynamic than his predecessor!

Yes, it's premature to declare that this will turn out successful in the medium to long term, but I personally feel very encouraged by what's eventuated so far. It's really good to see that St Kilda is gaining a lot more positive exposure in the mass media than what happened under the last two coaches.

[Vortex]

I'm sure that he would have had to do a lot of persuading to get the other directors behind him.

You are still making it sound like Bassett started concocting his cunning plan when he first walked into the joint and all that he needed to do was to convince other board members, how long had he been El Presidento before enacting his cunning plan? Stumbled onto the idea of bringing Lyon in just because Lyon was working as a real estate agent and was available. Bassett is just damn lucky Carlton passed over selecting him for their coaching position.

Bassett was claiming we would be in premiership contention in 2022, the letter on my wall has no mention of luring Lyon to the club to come join the party.

As I said previously, let’s not rewrite history.

[Killa]

That Lists turn over is the competition

That said, what I do know is that Richardson and Ratts knew each other prior to Ratts coming in as Assistant Coach to Richardson, Ratts from Hawthorn and Richardson from Port Adelaide

When Ratts arrived he offered that he was surprised at the lack of junior development programme’s - and sought to address this then upon succeeding Richardson further improved the development programme

What was also identified was that there was no mid career demographic, so mature bodies and hence the recruiting of State League players as an interim measure - only Wilkie remaining

Gallagher was instrumental in this - including recruiting from other AFL Clubs in one particular season

From there it has been selective recruiting, looking for class instead of (and not showing any disrespect, the likes of Butler as an example) players unable to cement their positions elsewhere and who are seeking opportunity

And a focus on going to the Draft

Henry is the strategy

Dow is probably not the strategy, noting the focus remains on the Draft

So perhaps Silvagni and a knowledge of Carlton, both Stocker and Dow first round selections

The List is much improved courtesy of Ratts and Gallagher and their strategy

The likes of Frawley, McKernan and Cordy was because we only had first year players in reserve for those responsibilities

So insurance exclusively

[meher baba]

Blaming Alan Richardson for our club's shortcomings is pretty rich. Richo was potentially a good coach who was given poor raw material with which to work. His game plan - which was based on hard-running and trying to corral opposing teams inside their defensive 50 - was a sensible one and worked well in some years. He tried very hard to persuade the football department to recruit Petracca, but they insisted on going with McCartin.

That shemozzle wasn't his fault, and nor was Ameet Bains's ill-judged and completely unsuccessful attempt in 2017 (I think it was) to accumulate a lot of money in the bank and then use it to trade in some major free agents like Josh Kelly.

Whether or not the recruitment of Lyon turns out to be a major success or just another blip on the radar of our MH370 flight into oblivion is yet to be seen. 2023 was better than anyone expected (including, I would wager, Lyon himself). We can't be said to have had a massive trade period: two so-so players (Henry and Dow) in for one so-so player (Gresham) and one perhaps better but injury-plagued player (Billings) out. The upcoming draft might be good for us or turn out to be a nothing burger but, either way, no significant improvement from what it might bring us can realistically be expected before 2025.

Our best hopes for a better perforance in 2024 are

1) the continued improvement of Phillipou, Owens, Windhager and NWM (although the last of these is already pretty wonderful IMO);
2) the team as a whole learning more about how to play Rossball effectively;
3) King being fit for most games; and
4) one or more of Keeler, Heath or Hotton making a sudden step up to AFL standard.

[Killa]

And just to add, when you walk into positions it takes some time to “get your feet under the desk”, to form opinions and to identify who you can trust, where the ability is and what the optimum structure of the business is, ultimately some moving on and others remaining

You do not just walk in and swing the changes to make your presence felt

You learn what you have inherited, so who and what you have inherited as a foundation

[Killa]

And I don’t know where Richardson being over ruled re Petracca comes from

McCartin was preferred on a raft of considerations some to do with McCartin and others to do with Petracca

[Killa]

And I don’t know where Richardson being over ruled re Petracca comes from

McCartin was preferred on a raft of considerations some to do with McCartin and others to do with Petracca

[meher baba]

And I don’t know where Richardson being over ruled re Petracca comes from

McCartin was preferred on a raft of considerations some to do with McCartin and others to do with Petracca

What I've heard is that Richardson wanted Petracca purely on football grounds, but that the club saw a bigger picture in relation to the potential crowd-pulling benefits of a big, powerful full forward in the expectation of Riewoldt's imminent retirement. Richardson went along with it in the end, because - despite all the press they get - coaches are ultimately only employees of football clubs rather than managers.

I've always assumed that the whispers about Petracca having some undesirable personality traits were largely an excuse. How can you make a definitive assessment on that sort of thing with guys who are in their late teens?

[SaintPav]

If Bassat is serious, he’ll get rid of SL for starters.

Instead, he promoted him which is a sign of organisational mediocrity.

[Sanctorum]

I'm sure that he would have had to do a lot of persuading to get the other directors behind him.

You are still making it sound like Bassett started concocting his cunning plan when he first walked into the joint and all that he needed to do was to convince other board members, how long had he been El Presidento before enacting his cunning plan? Stumbled onto the idea of bringing Lyon in just because Lyon was working as a real estate agent and was available.Bassett is just damn lucky Carlton passed over selecting him for their coaching position.

Bassett was claiming we would be in premiership contention in 2022, the letter on my wall has no mention of luring Lyon to the club to come join the party.

As I said previously, let’s not rewrite history.

Repeatedly and unfunnily referring to the club president as a dog rather than spelling his name correctly betrays your contempt for someone who is clearly dedicated to get the club back to achieving success.

I never implied that Bassat had a plan for restructuring the football department when he was elected in 2019.

Far from rewriting history, as you state, it was quite reasonable for Bassat to suggest that the team would be in premiership contention by 2022 in a letter to members, given the team played finals in 2021. Failing to make the eight in 2022 when that looked likely mid-season literally marked Ratten's papers.

It has been widely speculated that it was a group of former players who in company with newly elected board member Jason Blake led the move to recruit Ross Lyon last year.

[loris]

A lot of anti-richo people seem to forget it was Alan Richardson who got Brad Hill to decide to come to St.Kilda.
If you go back & watch the first video on Saints.com,when Hill was interviewed when the trade went through later that year. Hill said he had met with Richo in mid year & decided he wanted a trade to the Saints - so it was obviously left to Gallagher & Co to arrange for the trade period later that year.
Some individuals are so anti - they have to rewrite history.

[saynta]

A lot of anti-richo people seem to forget it was Alan Richardson who got Brad Hill to decide to come to St.Kilda.
If you go back & watch the first video on Saints.com,when Hill was interviewed when the trade went through later that year. Hill said he had met with Richo in mid year & decided he wanted a trade to the Saints - so it was obviously left to Gallagher & Co to arrange for the trade period later that year.
Some individuals are so anti - they have to rewrite history.

Quite sickening really. Some are now trying to rewrite our history concerning Ratts and what is even more annoying, at the same time overlooking the current coach's obvious flaws and his prior shameful exit.