Dow in Coffield out

[Scollop]

Courage on the footy field comes in many forms, however the fundamentals of the game demand that you sometimes need to focus on the ball at the expense of your own health.

Nick Riewoldt attacked every contest as if his life depended on it. Jonathan Brown had to retire because he just didn't know how to pull out of a marking contest.

Has Jack Billings ever suffered a concussion in his AFL career? Has he ever copped a shirtfront?

Sinclair has. Coffield has. Daniel McKenzie has. They only had eyes for the footy. Josh Battle also has several times, as has Hunter Clark.

..."oh, but Clark wasn't aware of his surroundings"

Bulldust!! Clark didn't pull out of the contest. Interestingly...Billings was the closest player in a St Kilda jumper and he stood by and did nothing when McKay from Adelaide lined up our player.

Some people think it's about 'awareness'. I think it's simply a player making the courageous decision to sacrifice themselves for the team. You take the hit, to win the footy. Or you take the hit to focus on executing your disposal

When has Billings even come close? He releases the footy and lets his team mates cop the hit.

I'm not arguing here that he has caused anyone else to get concussion. Simply that he plays bruise free footy whenever there is heat. He pulls out of potential collisions...and he did it often with a turnover as the result.

Soft as butter. Soft like a marshmallow

[takeaway]

Courage on the footy field comes in many forms, however the fundamentals of the game demand that you sometimes need to focus on the ball at the expense of your own health.

Nick Riewoldt attacked every contest as if his life depended on it. Jonathan Brown had to retire because he just didn't know how to pull out of a marking contest.

Has Jack Billings ever suffered a concussion in his AFL career? Has he ever copped a shirtfront?

Sinclair has. Coffield has. Daniel McKenzie has. They only had eyes for the footy. Josh Battle also has several times, as has Hunter Clark.

..."oh, but Clark wasn't aware of his surroundings"

Bulldust!! Clark didn't pull out of the contest. Interestingly...Billings was the closest player in a St Kilda jumper and he stood by and did nothing when McKay from Adelaide lined up our player.

Some people think it's about 'awareness'. I think it's simply a player making the courageous decision to sacrifice themselves for the team. You take the hit, to win the footy. Or you take the hit to focus on executing your disposal

When has Billings even come close? He releases the footy and lets his team mates cop the hit.

I'm not arguing here that he has caused anyone else to get concussion. Simply that he plays bruise free footy whenever there is heat. He pulls out of potential collisions...and he did it often with a turnover as the result.

Soft as butter. Soft like a marshmallow

So the Saints allowed JB to play over 150 games for them when all the time he was a squib? Good grief, Scolops, why didn't you let them know? A word in Ratt's ear, a chain of emails to the club, whatever. I'm sure they would have taken notice of your insight and wisdom.
So the benchmark for a courageous player is getting a concussion, or even a shirtfront? Unbelievable.

There is no AFL player who is as "soft as butter", not one. They would never get near the system. Suggest you go to the occasional live game, preferably near the boundary, and take in the atmosphere, hear the whacks, observe the effort. Much better than watching match highlights with no sound, and poring through game stats.

[B.M]

JBs mark running with the flight two years ago probably suggests he’s no squib

Is there a specific example of him dogging a contest?!

He’s not Brad Crouch - plays a different role

But I don’t think I’ve ever seen him shirk a contest, and I’m severe on that.

Tackles
He averages 2.66 per game over 155 games as a HF or Wing
Which is acceptable

[D.B.Cooper]

Courage on the footy field comes in many forms, however the fundamentals of the game demand that you sometimes need to focus on the ball at the expense of your own health.

Nick Riewoldt attacked every contest as if his life depended on it. Jonathan Brown had to retire because he just didn't know how to pull out of a marking contest.

Has Jack Billings ever suffered a concussion in his AFL career? Has he ever copped a shirtfront?

Sinclair has. Coffield has. Daniel McKenzie has. They only had eyes for the footy. Josh Battle also has several times, as has Hunter Clark.

..."oh, but Clark wasn't aware of his surroundings"

Bulldust!! Clark didn't pull out of the contest. Interestingly...Billings was the closest player in a St Kilda jumper and he stood by and did nothing when McKay from Adelaide lined up our player.

Some people think it's about 'awareness'. I think it's simply a player making the courageous decision to sacrifice themselves for the team. You take the hit, to win the footy. Or you take the hit to focus on executing your disposal

When has Billings even come close? He releases the footy and lets his team mates cop the hit.

I'm not arguing here that he has caused anyone else to get concussion. Simply that he plays bruise free footy whenever there is heat. He pulls out of potential collisions...and he did it often with a turnover as the result.

Soft as butter. Soft like a marshmallow

Lol, a keyboard warrior calling a guy who has notched up over 150 AFL games “soft as butter” and “soft like a marshmallow”.

I know who the soft one is Scollop, and it’s not Jack Billings.

[Scollop]

Soft from you DB coop. Joffa used to be a lot harder

[CQ SAINT]

Billings isn't a squibb.

There is just alot of contests he chooses not to position himself for.

Put the ball out in the open and he will have a crack but he doest invite a lot of contested ball.

[B.M]

He’s a HFF/Winger - not an inside mid

I’d suggest he wins more contested ball than Brad Hill!

[Scollop]

Brad Hill will end up having a better career (just purely on stats and averages) because he works harder than Jack.

He'll have better averages for contested footy than Billings

It's an interesting comparison. Who is softer?

I saw Brad put his body on the line countless times in the last 2 years. He was phenomenal in the final against GWS with his running and probably one of the highest for pressure acts/smothers/tackles etc...I think he's made up for an average 2020 and a poor 2021 with two very good seasons this year and last.

I did a search of Saintsational with the words 'Soft' and Billings....hmmmmm ,.not surprised to see plenty of opinions from a variety of posters....

then I added Hill and got the following threads where some discussions compare the two of them

viewtopic.php?p=1865015#p1865015

viewtopic.php?p=1866601#p1866601

viewtopic.php?p=1687138#p1687138

viewtopic.php?p=1896574#p1896574

viewtopic.php?p=1894241#p1894241

viewtopic.php?p=1916380#p1916380

Conclusion: Teflon was right. takeaway was wrong

[B.M]

Neither player is soft.

Hard to play 150 afl games if you’re soft

Courage comes in many forms

Because of their style of play people assume they are ‘soft’

Don’t confuse outside with soft

[nostalgicsaint]

Neither player is soft.

Hard to play 150 afl games if you’re soft

Courage comes in many forms

Because of their style of play people assume they are ‘soft’

Don’t confuse outside with soft

This

[SaintPav]

One of Jack's weaknesses in his game - like all players have - was his tendency to go missing for extended periods of the match. As Jack Dyer would say, he was where the ball ain’t.

Was this because he didn't work hard enough to involve himself in the game? Was he injured or simply not fit enough?

[Saintmike65]

I wonder how Coffield goes at Dullbogs. We will really see what potential he has. I'm suspecting not much at all. He may get to be a GOP. I think he is too slow.

He’s been reasonably quick but has had 3 injuries that likely has slowed him down…he’s a bit soft too!

[SaintPav]

In another 24 months ~ 1/3 of the current list won’t be there.

[CQ SAINT]

In another 24 months ~ 1/3 of the current list won’t be there.

How's that 2020 finals team look right now.

[MC Gusto]

Just on Dow

Every Carlton supporter I know is dirty on this one

All of them, with absolute consistency, believe he was never given a proper go at it, was treated poorly early and has plenty of upside

Im a half glass full guy but that’s a double win if blues fans are ticked off and we get a classy mid!

[saynta]

Soft from you DB coop. Joffa used to be a lot harder

Are they one and the same?

[saynta]

Soft from you DB coop. Joffa used to be a lot harder

[Scollop]

Soft from you DB coop. Joffa used to be a lot harder

Are they one and the same?

That was the indication....Loris hinted the same

viewtopic.php?p=1953541#p1953541

straight from the horses mouth

viewtopic.php?p=1953559#p1953559

[skeptic]

One of Jack's weaknesses in his game - like all players have - was his tendency to go missing for extended periods of the match. As Jack Dyer would say, he was where the ball ain’t.

Was this because he didn't work hard enough to involve himself in the game? Was he injured or simply not fit enough?

I think the definition of the word soft is an interesting thing to consider in this context.

I consider Billings soft like I considered Fiora soft but not in the context of a lack of physical toughness. No suggestion that he lack courage or wouldn’t throw himself into a contest, put his head over the ball, willingness to back down from a fight/contact or anything like that.

To me, the ultimate measure of tough is the ability to influence a game either against the run of play or when it’s on the line.

Most elite players have this quality.

A guy like Stephen Milne who was not particularly physical in the least nor did he impact any of the GFs he played in… literally won dozens of games for us by making something out of nothing against the run of play

Current list…
Hill will gut run to get to the right part of the contest and set up the game winning play
King and Higgins will be in that big forward thrust and take it on themselves kick the match winner even if batting at 0.3 for the match
Steele, Crouch, Ross and Sinclair could be in the big centre square hit out and take it on themselves to get it forward
Wood will go for the X factor play to win the match
NWM will calmly put himself in the right spot and attempt to thread the eye of the needle with a pass
Coops will run and fly at the contest or attempt a goal from outside 50m with confidence that he can do it. Pou has shown these qualities too.

The list goes on.

Game winning play… I don’t think Billings is the guy I want around the ball

[B.M]

Don’t a lot of HFs go missing for periods of games

It’s a tough position to play

Eg/ Phillipou averaged 12ppg (5 kicks) - not easy

Billings averages 20 ppg which is pretty high for a non mid/hb

[Scollop]

Billings disposal stats are elevated because he played on the wing and in the centre during 2017-2021. He hasn't played his whole career as a half forward. You know that

We played him as a HF because he failed as a mid. We took Billings at #3 ...supposedly so he could become a star midfielder. Most websites including footywire have him listed as a mid.

If you want to compare his numbers with other small forwards who play midfield, I mean... there's De Goey...or Dusty...or Kosi Pickett, or Shai Bolton or Isaac Heeney, or Sam Powell Pepper perhaps

Actually SPP is a good one to compare because he started off being a mid and is now a permanent small forward. Their goals and behinds averages are same but SPP kills JB for clearances.

Players taken with 4th round picks in the draft have had good careers as small forwards...see links below

I've also included the guy you always defended on here ( he was taken as a 3rd round pick) and when you compare his output as a forward vs Billings it's not bad...

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 2=C&type=A

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 2=C&type=A


https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 2=C&type=A

This guy from Essendon is listed on footywire as mid/forward (a rookie pick who was initially overlooked in his draft year).

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 2=C&type=A

In conclusion...lucky Melbourne wanted him and the compo to us is about right

[desertsaint]

final against richmond in 2020. seated literally ten metres away from the incident - ball out on the flank two thirds up the field for us. billings clear first to the ball along with a richmond player running hard at it - classic one on one hard contest coming up. another saint coming in from the side would be third to the contest. billings sees him and pulls up and allows the richmond player to get first to the ball, the other saint to lay the tackle. billings third in. ball out of bounds. in a bloody final. whether he 'squibbed' it or thought he'd get the loose ball, any other would have been first to the ball.

[B.M]

SPP and Billings are nothing alike

It’s a stupid comparison

[Scollop]

That's right. One of them was of value to their team in 2022 and 2023

[B.M]

Powell Pepper is a bull

With the skills of a local reserves player