Billings wants out

[Killa]

Anyone reading this site would not want to come within a bull’s roar of St Kilda

[Brunswicksainter]

Billings will stay. The club won’t be able to facilitate a trade for a usable pick. As I have mentioned a few time on this forum. There’s only expected to be 40ish picks taken in this draft. Third round picks are close to worthless.

[Otiman]

The fact remains that Pou ran out of gas in his last 3 games. Was it best for the team that he wasn't managed?

It's pretty clear to me that all of the selection decisions made throughout the year were not about 2023.

We were never a genuine shot at the cup, so the decisions were made with player development and 2024+ in mind.

Was playing a buggered 18 year old going to win us games? no. We can agree on that.

Was it going to 'teach' him a lesson about elite fitness that he may not otherwise have gotten? Possibly, and that's about the only reason I've got as to why the club might have done it.

There's clearly some player psychology going on here, otherwise you would have seen Heath, Van Es, and Keeler blooded too.

[Otiman]

Billings will stay. The club won’t be able to facilitate a trade for a usable pick. As I have mentioned a few time on this forum. There’s only expected to be 40ish picks taken in this draft. Third round picks are close to worthless.

I think we will take a 4th round if they take all his salary. Problem is that we would need time to facilitate another deal to use that cap space, which makes trade week a tough ask.

[Brunswicksainter]

Billings will stay. The club won’t be able to facilitate a trade for a usable pick. As I have mentioned a few time on this forum. There’s only expected to be 40ish picks taken in this draft. Third round picks are close to worthless.

I think we will take a 4th round if they take all his salary. Problem is that we would need time to facilitate another deal to use that cap space, which makes trade week a tough ask.

There will be no picks taken in the 4th round this year. So this will effectively be giving him away

[bigcarl]

Think we'd be making a mistake to let Billings leave St Kilda.

He has a touch of class, and good disposl, which we desperately need. Reminds me a bit of Dal Santo.

He's had a wretched run with injuries, and if fully fit , properly engaged and used correctly is a regular in our team.

If RTB really is a good coach, he should find a way to get the best out of Billings.

I tend to agree. He’s not the superstar we hoped he’d become but has played some good football for St Kilda.

Problem is the salary cap. If we are not going to play him his salary doesn’t look good on the books.

It seems Ross has him down as a small forward and considers others in front of him in that role. Where else could we play him? Does he lack the physicality and tank to go through the midfield? Wing? Half back?

I don’t blame him for wanting out as it is obviously for more opportunity.

[whiskers3614]

Lyon and that idiot Misson are obviously giving him the Luke Ball treatment.
What NcQualters or Peakes are they thinking of replacing him with?

[Impatient Sainter]

Lyon and that idiot Misson are obviously giving him the Luke Ball treatment.
What NcQualters or Peakes are they thinking of replacing him with?

Billings was injured for most of the year and when he wasnt his form in the VFL was nothing outstanding. When was RTB meant to play him? Pretty harsh when RTB has only had a year with the list.

[Otiman]

There will be no picks taken in the 4th round this year. So this will effectively be giving him away

Yep.

I'm actually a fan and thought he deserved more games this year. But it's not fair on him to keep him at the club just to play VFL.

[skeptic]

Why do people think he won’t play if he stays?

Obviously many are disappointed he didn’t play at the tail end of this season…
But if he does all the right things and his form demands it… he’ll get an opportunity. Cooper had to fight for his spot and he got it.

[skeptic]

Jack is just scared of the pre-season that is coming. That's Jacks problem.
Surgery, late starts, catching up, a tweak here and a niggle there. Treated unfairly my arse. Put in the work and become durable or play VFL.

100%.

Completely capable of being an elite mid. Should be the fittest player at the club and he never has been.

To me, no one player exemplifies the do the minimum amount to get by aura of the list over the Richo and to a lesser extent the Ratten years then Billings. A list of players that seemed very capable but never seemed fit enough to run out games, consistently shocking set shots and plain erratic skills.

Others seem content to let him go for nothing after all this time, money and effort.

Me personally… I say run him into the ground, make him do the work and drag the potential out of him

There seems to be an impression that Billings is not a hard worker/trainer. Where did that come from? Last 2 years obviously mostly out with injury.
I had the impression that Billings was good on the track and hence very fit. Always in the top 3-4 for distance covered in a game, check any year when he played most of the year. For example, his last full year, 2021, 3rd in the average distance covered behind Sinclair and Wilkie, and he had injections each game for his crook foot!

People seem to think that if you have a spate of injuries, you can't be fit enough. Surely not that simple.

My view is that he should take the game on more, take more risks, and probably make more mistakes. Instead of a quick handball, try to evade and break clear and use your foot skills for instance.

If he stays, certainly get into it pre season now that his body is ok. Not that he hasn't trained hard in the past.

Maybe he will be better for a change to another club. Trading him away though for something like a 3rd rounder would be plain stupid.
Hope he stays.

Fair call.

It is a personal impression. What’s formed it?

He is and always has been a terrible set shot. Players like like King, Higgins, Butler etc have bad games/patches and difficulties with the yips but they regularly have good patches too.
There was that one game v Carlton where he was sinking them in from all over ground but otherwise he never has come close to being reliable. I can’t imagine that if he put the work in… he wouldn’t get better. Worked for Roo and Loewe… why not Billings?

In terms of fitness… it’s not just injuries. When do you ever hear about how he’s burning up the track? Ala Coffield the last 2 years. When have you ever heard that he was the fittest player at the club or blitzed the time trial. I don’t reckon I’ve ever heard.
Fast forward to onfield effort…. Ever see him consistently do the Bradley Hill gut running… getting to contest to contest. Ever heard that he ran the most KMs per game?

He’s got elite disposal… seldom drifts to the backline and takes a kick in or act as a play maker in the backline. In fact, the commentary for years has always been that defensively he’s very poor and can’t go with an opponent.

It seems like Billings has been a HFF flanker his whole career. 10 years in he’s not an AFL mid which is the role he was recruited to play.

In terms of his performance overall… apparently he has an average of 20+ disposals a game. Hard to believe. I’ve seen plenty of sub 20s where he’s been around 15 touches and limited impact.
People carry on about how harshly he’s marked due to the Bont thing but IMO that’s a cop out. I’ve seen Billings show what he’s capable of…
Kid should be elite. He should have had a couple of dozen performances like that Carlton game where he was the match winner for us… he’s barely ever even been BOG.

How many great games he he had? I can think of two. No where near what it should be.

Finally we get to present day…
RTB didn’t play him. Why? Are we to believe that RTB has an anti-Billings agenda and won’t play him, even if to win a final due to a terrible, unjust bias? Or is it more likely that he has a questionable attitude… doesn’t follow instruction and has an inflated sense of his worth.
I mean the scuttlebutt here is that we should take a 4th pick if he can get it for him and that there are no suitors!!??
I mean what the heck is going on here… kid is very very talented. Would easily be at least the cream to a premiership contender. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

And finally… it’s going to be a brutal preseason for the players as RTB is a tough taskmaster and meticulous/ruthless in regards to players leaving no stone unturned… and now he wants out.

Yes. Everything posted here is just impressions and no fact. No question there. What’s damning though is the silence in praise from everywhere… club never talks him up… training reports never have him in the best… never seems to be a target for anyone.

And for the record… I was a huge fan up to 2020 and I would actually prefer to keep him now. But nothing about him screams hard worker

[SaintPav]

Send him to Norf.

[magnifisaint]

Send him to Norf.

Only if the trade works for St Kilda otherwise they can f*** off to Tasmania or Siberia which might be better.

[The Recruit]

Sounds like he might be off to the blues

[The Fireman]

I want out

[saintsRrising]

Sounds like he might be off to the blues

Yes latest word is that Billings is off to the Blues for Dow and a late pick to us.

[Vortex]

Sounds like he might be off to the blues

Yes latest word is that Billings is off to the Blues for Dow and a late pick to us.

That's a worthwhile trade, Dow could end up being a failed recruit also as he hasn't set the world on fire relative to his draft order so he and Billings have that in common, however sometimes players just need a new start so it's worth the swap and see if both players can kick start their chances of playing in a flag at a new club. Statistically speaking they will most likely both fail at their new clubs but the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistake and expecting a different result...turn em over and see how they go.

[takeaway]

Jack is just scared of the pre-season that is coming. That's Jacks problem.
Surgery, late starts, catching up, a tweak here and a niggle there. Treated unfairly my arse. Put in the work and become durable or play VFL.

100%.

Completely capable of being an elite mid. Should be the fittest player at the club and he never has been.

To me, no one player exemplifies the do the minimum amount to get by aura of the list over the Richo and to a lesser extent the Ratten years then Billings. A list of players that seemed very capable but never seemed fit enough to run out games, consistently shocking set shots and plain erratic skills.

Others seem content to let him go for nothing after all this time, money and effort.

Me personally… I say run him into the ground, make him do the work and drag the potential out of him

There seems to be an impression that Billings is not a hard worker/trainer. Where did that come from? Last 2 years obviously mostly out with injury.
I had the impression that Billings was good on the track and hence very fit. Always in the top 3-4 for distance covered in a game, check any year when he played most of the year. For example, his last full year, 2021, 3rd in the average distance covered behind Sinclair and Wilkie, and he had injections each game for his crook foot!

People seem to think that if you have a spate of injuries, you can't be fit enough. Surely not that simple.

My view is that he should take the game on more, take more risks, and probably make more mistakes. Instead of a quick handball, try to evade and break clear and use your foot skills for instance.

If he stays, certainly get into it pre season now that his body is ok. Not that he hasn't trained hard in the past.

Maybe he will be better for a change to another club. Trading him away though for something like a 3rd rounder would be plain stupid.
Hope he stays.

Fair call.

It is a personal impression. What’s formed it?

He is and always has been a terrible set shot. Players like like King, Higgins, Butler etc have bad games/patches and difficulties with the yips but they regularly have good patches too.
There was that one game v Carlton where he was sinking them in from all over ground but otherwise he never has come close to being reliable. I can’t imagine that if he put the work in… he wouldn’t get better. Worked for Roo and Loewe… why not Billings?

In terms of fitness… it’s not just injuries. When do you ever hear about how he’s burning up the track? Ala Coffield the last 2 years. When have you ever heard that he was the fittest player at the club or blitzed the time trial. I don’t reckon I’ve ever heard.
Fast forward to onfield effort…. Ever see him consistently do the Bradley Hill gut running… getting to contest to contest. Ever heard that he ran the most KMs per game?

He’s got elite disposal… seldom drifts to the backline and takes a kick in or act as a play maker in the backline. In fact, the commentary for years has always been that defensively he’s very poor and can’t go with an opponent.

It seems like Billings has been a HFF flanker his whole career. 10 years in he’s not an AFL mid which is the role he was recruited to play.

In terms of his performance overall… apparently he has an average of 20+ disposals a game. Hard to believe. I’ve seen plenty of sub 20s where he’s been around 15 touches and limited impact.
People carry on about how harshly he’s marked due to the Bont thing but IMO that’s a cop out. I’ve seen Billings show what he’s capable of…
Kid should be elite. He should have had a couple of dozen performances like that Carlton game where he was the match winner for us… he’s barely ever even been BOG.

How many great games he he had? I can think of two. No where near what it should be.

Finally we get to present day…
RTB didn’t play him. Why? Are we to believe that RTB has an anti-Billings agenda and won’t play him, even if to win a final due to a terrible, unjust bias? Or is it more likely that he has a questionable attitude… doesn’t follow instruction and has an inflated sense of his worth.
I mean the scuttlebutt here is that we should take a 4th pick if he can get it for him and that there are no suitors!!??
I mean what the heck is going on here… kid is very very talented. Would easily be at least the cream to a premiership contender. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

And finally… it’s going to be a brutal preseason for the players as RTB is a tough taskmaster and meticulous/ruthless in regards to players leaving no stone unturned… and now he wants out.

Yes. Everything posted here is just impressions and no fact. No question there. What’s damning though is the silence in praise from everywhere… club never talks him up… training reports never have him in the best… never seems to be a target for anyone.

And for the record… I was a huge fan up to 2020 and I would actually prefer to keep him now. But nothing about him screams hard worker

Probably moot points, as Billings looks gone, but I’ll comment anyway.

Billings has not been a “HFF his whole career”. Probably spent more time on the wing, even played some games as a HBF. The area where he has consistently gained the most possessions is the defensive side of the centre. Yes, he DOES average close to 21 ppg, he is a link player, drifting between HB and FF, more often delivering to forward line (usually effectively), also scoring himself. (agree, missing too often). Had plenty of possessions in the backline, contrary to your post.

I haven’t heard any commentary that he is poor defensively. Not correct imo.

Re work rate, not sure because you haven’t heard that he’s “burning up the track” etc is a valid point. As stated earlier, he has been usually been in the top few for distance covered in games, often ahead of Brad Hill. (check it out).

2021 distance stats, Billings last full year, even though he had an injured foot. Earlier years was always in the top 4 at least.

Top-five most distance covered per game in 2021

Callum Wilkie, 14.01km

Jack Sinclair, 13.79km
Jack Billings, 13.74km

Bradley Hill, 13.58km
Sebastian Ross, 13.35km

Top-five most distance covered in a game in 2021

Jack Sinclair, R4 v WC, 15.35km

Jack Billings, R13 v Adel, 15.20km

Bradley Hill, R15 v Rich, 15.19km

Daniel McKenzie, R6 v PA, 15.11km

Callum Wilkie, R12 v Syd, 15.04km

As for training, observation at the actual track rather than tabloid media reports (or lack of) would tell you that he is certainly a hard worker.

In 2015-16, took on boxing training off his own bat to strengthen upper body, improve his reactions.

2017-20 joined a semi professional running group off season to improve endurance, etc. Only stopped because of covid. In fact I have heard the view that he may have overworked himself with this activity, leading to back & leg issues.

Was in the Saints leadership group 2019-21. You don’t get in the leadership group without doing the hard yards. Injured 2022, so left out of leadership group.

So not a hard worker? Rubbish.

It is true that JB has not reached the levels many supporters hoped for, ie a game breaking, spectacular player. That came next pick. How many No. 3 picks in drafting history were those type of players? Answer - 2 only, and they are/were outstanding - Judd & Dusty.

His main issue is he has missed a lot of football last couple of years and that has cost him. Saints are lacking quality disposal into the forward line, in fact everywhere, and Billings has that. I would prefer RTB & co give him a go, but not looking likely now.

[Otiman]

If that's the case we will be paying his salary.

[Mr Magic]

In all the gnashing of teeth over the probability of losing Billings, I haven't seen anybody explain coherently why he appears to be out of favour with the coaching panel?
It cannot just be Lyon
It has to also be Hayes, Harvey, Enright Goddard plus anybody else involved in the coaching/selection.
It's easy to just 'blame' Lyon (especially for those who are still annoyed with his selection as our coach)

But Billings is obviously doing/not doing something that is holding him back.

Afterall, do posters really believe that a coaching panel would deliberately not play somebody who would improve the team's performance?
Seriously?
In a results driven industry, a coaching panel would sabotage their own performance for no good reason?

[takeaway]

In all the gnashing of teeth over the probability of losing Billings, I haven't seen anybody explain coherently why he appears to be out of favour with the coaching panel?
It cannot just be Lyon
It has to also be Hayes, Harvey, Enright Goddard plus anybody else involved in the coaching/selection.
It's easy to just 'blame' Lyon (especially for those who are still annoyed with his selection as our coach)

But Billings is obviously doing/not doing something that is holding him back.

Afterall, do posters really believe that a coaching panel would deliberately not play somebody who would improve the team's performance?
Seriously?
In a results driven industry, a coaching panel would sabotage their own performance for no good reason?

Yep, not playing due to injury is what held him back.

[shanegrambeau]

We can only hope for one result, the one that makes us most competitive in 2024+, regardless of JB himself.

We can debate the justice/fairness thing all day.

It is hard as a fan, not to take sides and get involved in the debate about qualifying 'the truth' and ourselves at the same time.

In the end, are we a better team with JB running out on the park, or are there better alternatives.

I thought JB would have added more than Pou several times this year, and who knows, might have helped us beat GWS?

But he is hampered by the back I would guess, and is hardly expected to stand in the way of Pou going forward.

He did a little better on the half-back line later, but Sincs was coming fast.

Like Higgins, he draws free kicks, which is good, but one or two frees a game is not enough to justify him being here.

I expect all sides are pros and whatever happens, will carry on like nothing ever happened going forward, whatever the situation.

Us fans and the media won't of course - and fair enough, that's what we do.

[CQ SAINT]

Where ever he goes, he has to do a training load to find form and fitness. It's up to him. Clearly, we have told him he is up against it. Will he have better luck at Carlton? I hope so.

[Teflon]

Surely the fact that NO AFL club is banging down our door to get him tells you plenty - the club has made it crystal hes gettable…
He lacks pace , is a poor set shot for goal and his field kicking isn’t often damaging ….
Yes he might fit a Dow trade but I’d argue Dow has shown more in a strong midfield this year than Billings has in 7 years
Dow also up there for AFL centre bounce clearance and has a yard of pace

[MC Gusto]

A swap of two failed pick 3s?! Me likey!