Pass mark for 2024

[saynta]

A prelim final as the bare minimum.

[B.M]

What makes you think we’ll improve next year?

We’d need to bring in more talent to get better

As it is, we are losing talent!

[saynta]

Maybe, maybe not. Too early to tell.

7 or 8 players having surgery to fix their bodies says something about this year.

We were f***ed against GWS before the game started due to the Members situation.

That wont happen next year I would think.

A full fit list would give most teams a run for their money and a second year with the Lyon game plan can only be a positive.

A fully fit King will make a huge difference, and I believe Keeler and Hotton will add class to the side.

Call me an optimist if you want.

[Scollop]

I don't know

Depends on trade period and who we get in and who we lose.

Obviously it'd be good reward for players if they can make finals again, but I don't care if we win or lose more games than this year.

I want to see growth. I hope they continue to get games into our youth and I want more young players getting games in the seniors. They don't need to get 30 touches every week at Sandringham. Just play them and give them a taste.

[Vortex]

I don't know

Depends on trade period and who we get in and who we lose.

Obviously it'd be good reward for players if they can make finals again, but I don't care if we win or lose more games than this year.

I want to see growth. I hope they continue to get games into our youth and I want more young players getting games in the seniors. They don't need to get 30 touches every week at Sandringham. Just play them and give them a taste.

Have to be attempting to win games and not gift players games to "get games into them" if they can't play the level.

Interesting to hear Hinkley say the same thing after last night's game about not playing a kid if he isn't ready for the level.

[Brunswicksainter]

We’ll go backwards imo

I actually agree
Geezus people saying we will be too 4 challenging????
Where’s the Bont in the midfield coming from???
Sorry we will trade out sone experience (who aren’t good enough and won’t take us there) , bring in sone (hopefully) more talented kids with a higher ceiling, load up for the 2 years following imo
Lyons already said - it’s not a 1 year list revamp
We probably need to go backwards to get that top 10 DP talent we sorely need and go forwards
We can then use the war chest on a big FA year 2
North stockpiling it …they will come
Hawks have
I’m ok with that strategy as long as we pick well and it’s a list that enables us to challenge for more than 1 year… build a dynasty ….we deserve it
Guys like Dow will be an upgrade on Bytels etc so that’s good
Henry to Wing Hill back to Hf takes care of Billing’s

yep
these are good points
add the crows were the best side outside the eight , poor goal kicking hurt them , fix that their in.
watched the suns reserves make the GF today, there's a team next that's packed with talent , if Hardwick can get them to preform look out .
The giants have under preformed for years , but are loaded with talent , suddenly things have clicked and they're looking really good .
We're going to need improvement in our game next year equal to this year just to be a chance of playing finals in 2024.

By the same token I think there are a lot of teams that finished in the 8 are due go backwards big time next year. Port Adelaide and Melbourne chief among these. If Brisbane cop a massive gf loss they will also miss the 8 next year. Collingwood's list is also deceptively old and they have a number of key midfield players due to retire in the next 12-24 months.

[Scollop]

I don't know

Depends on trade period and who we get in and who we lose.

Obviously it'd be good reward for players if they can make finals again, but I don't care if we win or lose more games than this year.

I want to see growth. I hope they continue to get games into our youth and I want more young players getting games in the seniors. They don't need to get 30 touches every week at Sandringham. Just play them and give them a taste.

Have to be attempting to win games and not gift players games to "get games into them" if they can't play the level.

Interesting to hear Hinkley say the same thing after last night's game about not playing a kid if he isn't ready for the level.

What? You mean mark their papers after 7 games and just delist them every two years...

You don't have much credibility when it comes to young players.

Some of the posters here last year were thinking it was unwise to give Owens a game early in 2022.

I'd be giving them a taste even if they aren't ready and it least they know what to expect. Not just the pace of the game and the physicality, but they also understand the areas they need to improve.

It's the fast track way, rather than waiting 3 years for them to serve an apprenticeship and put on muscle.

Ratts gave Nas, Owens and Windhager multiple games in 2022 and he also gave Sharman opportunities as soon as he was drafted.

Ross only gave Pou an opportunity this year and all the other first year draftees were essentially ignored. And the strange thing is that Pou is a young kid and he's expected to perform every single week. Weird!!

Should have been managed for at least a couple of weeks here or there. Might have helped freshen him up instead of burning him out. There was a drop off in his form in the last 3 games

Also...Not really fair if you look at it from the point of view of our other first year draftees. In their eyes, they're all equal regardless of draft pick.

Ross obviously never considered that Peris or any other player was worthy of replacing Higgins in the team ...for the foreseeable future.

Peris was dropped immediately after a single solitary game and I don't agree with that. I think he should have played a lot earlier than just in Round 18 and should have at least been given a patch of 3 consecutive games.

With the other 1st year players, I know it was mainly due to them being unavailable through injury but we need to really stop caring about just scraping in to finals each year and focus on development.

[SAINT-LEE]

I'd guess 7-9th on the ladder.
Tough draw, injuries, new coach...we did very well in 2023. But...we were VERY lucky. We stayed in the 8 because other teams losing not us winning.

We can make the finals if we build a better midfield, maybe move some player in? Maybe a trade or ??? We need some inside speed for sure.

A key defender either emerging or new and better output from the forward line...we finish 7th.

[SAINT-LEE]

I'd guess 7-9th on the ladder.
Tough draw, injuries, new coach...we did very well in 2023. But...we were VERY lucky. We stayed in the 8 because other teams losing not us winning.

We can make the finals if we build a better midfield, maybe move some player in? Maybe a trade or ??? We need some inside speed for sure.

A key defender either emerging or new and better output from the forward line...we finish 7th.

[Vortex]

I don't know

Depends on trade period and who we get in and who we lose.

Obviously it'd be good reward for players if they can make finals again, but I don't care if we win or lose more games than this year.

I want to see growth. I hope they continue to get games into our youth and I want more young players getting games in the seniors. They don't need to get 30 touches every week at Sandringham. Just play them and give them a taste.

Have to be attempting to win games and not gift players games to "get games into them" if they can't play the level.

Interesting to hear Hinkley say the same thing after last night's game about not playing a kid if he isn't ready for the level.

What? You mean mark their papers after 7 games and just delist them every two years...

You don't have much credibility when it comes to young players.

Some of the posters here last year were thinking it was unwise to give Owens a game early in 2022.

I'd be giving them a taste even if they aren't ready and it least they know what to expect. Not just the pace of the game and the physicality, but they also understand the areas they need to improve.

It's the fast track way, rather than waiting 3 years for them to serve an apprenticeship and put on muscle.

Ratts gave Nas, Owens and Windhager multiple games in 2022 and he also gave Sharman opportunities as soon as he was drafted.

Ross only gave Pou an opportunity this year and all the other first year draftees were essentially ignored. And the strange thing is that Pou is a young kid and he's expected to perform every single week. Weird!!

Should have been managed for at least a couple of weeks here or there. Might have helped freshen him up instead of burning him out. There was a drop off in his form in the last 3 games

Also...Not really fair if you look at it from the point of view of our other first year draftees. In their eyes, they're all equal regardless of draft pick.

Ross obviously never considered that Peris or any other player was worthy of replacing Higgins in the team ...for the foreseeable future.

Peris was dropped immediately after a single solitary game and I don't agree with that. I think he should have played a lot earlier than just in Round 18 and should have at least been given a patch of 3 consecutive games.

With the other 1st year players, I know it was mainly due to them being unavailable through injury but we need to really stop caring about just scraping in to finals each year and focus on development.

Head down to your local footy club and get to know the coaches at that level, constantly having to assess when a kid is ready to step up to the next level, same applies at the elite level, but even more so for obvious reasons. You can do more than harm good by playing a kid at a higher level if he isn't ready. And then there are the cases when the kid will tell you he's not ready such as Max Heath. Some are ready, some aren't. Ken Hinkley made sense on the subject to those of us who understood what it was he was telling us.

[Vortex]

But...we were VERY lucky. We stayed in the 8 because other teams losing not us winning.

Pretty sure the club and coaches get this point, Lyon's comments after the loss in the final spoke of rebuilding, not sure how any astute pundit of the game would see it any differently.

As it was apparent throughout last year before Ratts was sacked that we needed a rebuild and then it was very clear that Lyon was given a mandate to rebuild.

I think it's a positive now that his first season is out of the way and he can start talking honestly with the fans about his mandate and the rebuild and reset expectations for the next few years.

With a little luck in the next 2 to 3 trade seasons we could be contending for a top four finish in Lyons 5th or 6th season.

It will also require the fanboys and coteries not to turn on Ross in this time hence the real need to reset expectations so hopefully our finals appearance didn't overcook expectations in that regard.

[The Fireman]

this fanboy wont be turning, i have total confidence in the "magician",as you often label him, and will back him to the end, just as i have done and will do for the club.

[samuraisaint]

A rejig of the midfield will not happen overnight, and it's our big weakness. I want the Saints to win a flag next season, but in reality, I have a horrible feeling that CG and possibly the Hawks might jump over us in 2024.

CG as in Cold Ghost - or GC as in Gold Coast?

The Suns

The Hawks might even slide a bit next season. The Suns will finish bottom 4.

[B.M]

Suns will be closer to top 4 than bottom 4

Crows, Bulldogs, Suns, Hawks all capable of making the 8
Freo too are a possibility

Rich, Geel and Essendon are harder to place - as are StK

Only North and the WCE imo are no hope

[Brunswicksainter]

Suns will be closer to top 4 than bottom 4

Crows, Bulldogs, Suns, Hawks all capable of making the 8
Freo too are a possibility

Rich, Geel and Essendon are harder to place - as are StK

Only North and the WCE imo are no hope

Would’ve thought Richmond, Geelong and bulldogs are almost certainties to miss the 8. Deplorable aging lists.

[B.M]

Bulldogs list is right in the sweet spot

They should be contending

[saynta]

i honestly think we will improve, otherwise what was the point in getting games into our teenagers.

[skeptic]

I’d say finals along with continued development is a comfortably pass for me

[Zed]

Same as this year - sneak into the bottom part of the 8.
On the plus side , improvement from the youngsters
On the negative side, teams have now figured out how we play and plan accordingly. Won’t get the fast start to the season catching teams unprepared for a new game style.
Transition into the F50 and converting scoring opportunities to goals will still be the sore thumb.
On the days that it clicks, our best will be exciting to watch. On the other days, we will turn over due to poor disposal and fail to take our chances in front of goals

[Otiman]

I feel like the biggest change is now the coaches have a year of exploring the list, a new gameplan can be built around our strengths and negate our deficiencies.

The worry is that RTB overrules the assistants and we get a standard Lyon gameplan.

[samuraisaint]

Suns will be closer to top 4 than bottom 4

Based on what? There is no reliable evidence of them getting anywhere near the top 8. For a start, they rely on Touk Miller waaay too much.
The whole side is inconsistent, and Hardwick is going to need more than one preseason to fix their defensive issues.
If they have a breakout year, they might finish tenth - at best.

[B.M]

Based on

Witts, Rowell, Anderson, Miller
King, Lukoscious
Weller

And shitload more

They have a lot of A Graders

[Otiman]

GC's back line is worse than Port and they won't do much until they fix it.

[Vortex]

Going to be interesting to see if Hardwick is the only missing ingredient. The GCSs have the opposite challenge to us, they have talent to burn that runs incredibly deep, they just have never had a decent coach.

Whereas we have a SuperCoach, elite even, but we will never be gifted the same depth of talent as the GCSs.

Which horse would you back?

[B.M]

What makes Lyon a ‘super coach’


I’ll back the list anyday- players win games not coaches