Post-match analysis

[B.M]

What the fk are you talking about

I saw Cordy lose at least 5 or 6 one on one contests - he had a mare

Wilkie had the wrong match up imo

[meher baba]

Cordy isn't an AFL standard central defender and I had thought that he would be found out sooner or later. Many fans seemed to prefer him to Howard because he didn't make as many mistakes with the ball in his hands.

But the number one job of central defenders is to make it hard for the opposition's key forward target to mark the ball. But Cordy wasn't physically up to competing with either Riccardi or Hogan, so GWS tried to get him into as many one on one contests as possible, with the inevitable result.

Selecting Howard rather than Cordy might conceivably have changed the result. Our team gains a lot of its self-confidence from the strength of our defence, and that was lacking yesterday. We got pretty close to kicking a winning score, but we allowed them to kick only the second 100+ score against us all year.

[Big Max]

Pretty much agree with most of this analysis, but the 'elephant in the room' was the psychological impact of the Tim Membury situation.

Our players were clearly 'flattened' by the devastating news of their team mate.

[takeaway]

Before this year GWS had played in 5 of the last 7 finals series. We had played one. It showed.

[Yorkeys]

You can't argue about the match being important experience for Pou. Hope it is positive. 1. In front of us, while the match still had a pulse of sorts, he had a great opportunity to take possession; fumbled three times before tipping the ball to the open side where GWS waltzed the ball away for a goal. Hope he can improve on that sort of play and it doesn't make him less confident. 2. Had a great chance to mark about 25 out and Camminiti just barrelled him - GWS full back could not have done better. Makes you weep. Now if he had been allowed to take it and inevitably goaled...

Last qtr, Clark running down Olympic Stand side has enormous time and space running into a moving forward line several options and he picks out a GWS defender as clean as you like. That's it for me as far as he is concerned, could not execute when not under physical pressure and we desperately needed a good pass, bread and butter stuff. Coach killer.

[The_Dud]

I thought Cordy’s job was made a lot harder by great delivery by the GWS mids, who had a lot of unpressured entries inside 50. He was caught out in bad positions, hard to win those.

We could learn a bit from that, we had a couple of chances where we had an outnumber inside 50 but butchered the delivery.

[Yorkeys]

I thought Cordy’s job was made a lot harder by great delivery by the GWS mids, who had a lot of unpressured entries inside 50. He was caught out in bad positions, hard to win those.

We could learn a bit from that, we had a couple of chances where we had an outnumber inside 50 but butchered the delivery.

Agree. I hadn't appreciated how very large Himmelburg and Hogan are, and quite mobile. Cordy was given a big task the way the ball was coming in.

[Vortex]

The sample size is in, well off the pace, fell into the final 8 because other teams around us on ladder had an average season.

The quality of player and skill between us and the top 7 is stark

hopefully the club doesn't rate this list on the basis they made the finals and only need a few tweaks, pretty sure they wont.

as I've been saying all season, will take Lyon a few years to build the team.

will probably mean we don't play finals again for a couple of years as more "exploration" is needed.

[CQ SAINT]

One further point: what exactly was the strategy with Phillipou? What was his position? Wouldn't it have been much better for a young player's development to give him a specific position to play rather than a sort of general roving role? He seemed to get totally lost today.

I didn’t hear you criticise prior to the match when we’ve played in mid rotation all year??
Expect a flood of “harry hindsight “ posts from you now as it’s par for course
Saints weren’t going further after today IF we won anyway
Great exposure for Pou he’ll learn

Christ you are a crotchety character.

Yes, it was fine for him to play in mid rotation in home and away. But finals are a different proposition. And he looked completely lost today. That's a fact, not a question of hindsight.

Finals are a different proposition? Why? Does Billing's have a successful finals history? Which player, who wasn't playing, would be a finals expert?

[samoht]

The ball waltzed out too easily from our F50 entries.

Let's face facts:
Our game plan allows too much space for opposition halfback lines, conceding too many easy rebounds.
We've seen it all year.

GWS developed too many clean chains from half back, and an easy link up with their strong midfield.

Despite Marshall having midfielder-like numbers, and Steele playing his best game for the year, and them missing Coniglio, allowing them those easy rebounds cost us the game.

I question our game plan, once again.

Our selections were a bit suspect, too.
Even selecting 3 small forwards is a mistake in the finals ... smalls are not built for the finals.
How many times have smalls let us down in past finals?
Why are we in a repeat pattern?

Play Coffield, play Billings instead ... any other bigger-bodied option!!!

[meher baba]

One further point: what exactly was the strategy with Phillipou? What was his position? Wouldn't it have been much better for a young player's development to give him a specific position to play rather than a sort of general roving role? He seemed to get totally lost today.

I didn’t hear you criticise prior to the match when we’ve played in mid rotation all year??
Expect a flood of “harry hindsight “ posts from you now as it’s par for course
Saints weren’t going further after today IF we won anyway
Great exposure for Pou he’ll learn

Christ you are a crotchety character.

Yes, it was fine for him to play in mid rotation in home and away. But finals are a different proposition. And he looked completely lost today. That's a fact, not a question of hindsight.

Finals are a different proposition? Why? Does Billing's have a successful finals history? Which player, who wasn't playing, would be a finals expert?

I was in favour of Phillipou playing (and Billings too, but that bus had clearly departed weeks ago). But I’ve watched him for the whole season and can’t see that he’s been established in a definite role. In the end, the ball passed him by for much of the game, as it did for Owens for much of the time. I reckon it would have been better to move him further forward to replace Membrey and then bring Byrnes in, who might have been able to keep up with the rampaging Giants midfield.

[samoht]

[Vortex]

F50 entries hurt us....midfield was non existent, crouch had a shocker

[Vortex]

Syncs was fumbly and herd footsteps in more than one contest facing him into basic errors

[B.M]

That’s rubbish

[shanegrambeau]

I was there yesterday. We all know I think what the deficiencies and some excellent comments here.

If I could pile on I would mention

Not picking Howard was terrible - Cordy was killed
Webster and our newly minted AA ‘full-back’ lol was totally not fit for purpose. Battle was getting a bath for a while too. Tom Highmore should have played and should have been picked throughout the season say six to eight games.

Our midfield - we know , no comment necessary but I’m afraid my optimism about Hunter Clark as an earlier midfielder has exhausted itself.

Pou was a liability and Caminiti destructive kamikazi again..

I don’t agree it wa good to pick Pou every game ..Ryan Byrnes and even Paton would have been better

In general we all saw the carnage ..it was bulls pushing around calves.

Butler and Higgins we’re duds
But to see the sec Indic half , when we finally managed gym get some space to kick into F50, to see passes to outnumbered and not yk mention super outsized Butler and Higgins thus forcing an out of position Max King tk be a Rover , was tragic comedic.

The only thing I was saved from was the fact that we never looked like it. It wasn’t one of those we are winning but now we are losing situations
Special mention
Marshall, Cooper S, Hill, Steel tried, Battle improved

[samoht]

Taking 3 small forwards into tough finals where you'd logically expect them to be outbodied and outmarked ... seriously!

Amateur St Kilda hour ... we never learn.

Gresham ... and that's it.

A chance for 2 bigger bodied inclusions.

It's like falling for our own 3 card trick. Unbelievable.

[TheGreatZacsby]

Back from the match and don't think ill watch a replay.

Some thoughts:

Cordy a spud. His direct opponent plus 1 on 1s lost against Riccardi and others cost us goals. Their delivery was unpredictable but he lost too many contests.

Marshall worth his weight in gold. Single handedly carried us in the first half.

Windhager is a run with midfielder. Call him a tagger if you must. Had more of an impact and reduced Kelly's effectiveness in H2.

We are not built for ground ball contest, are pushed off it too easily and overrun too many ground balls.

Umpiring was average (both ways) but it hurt us early when the scores were tight.

Battle has gone to the next level and was our best defender today.

We overuse the ball trying to get overlap run and end up putting ourselves under pressure, especially in the centre of the ground.

For 60,000 sainters at the G, the crowd noise was pretty poor.

Forward structure and delivery was ultimately the difference today.

THIS!!!

Post spot on!

The crowd should be ashamed of themselves. I was in a spot and I didn’t hear one single saints fan get up or get the crowd going just some muppet teenagers behind me going for GWS the whole time. Absolutely disappointing.

[scallopsroe]

We were beaten with quick movement from stoppages and precise field kicking by GWS. Once they got a break of a couple of metres they were off. Our slow mids couldn't run them down. That gave them time and space to deliver to their forwards. A lot of little things went their way where seeming innocuous situations suddenly turned into a goal, like the Brad Crouch out on the full in the first

We fumbled a lot in the first half and our young forwards got in each other's way. Compounding that was our delivery inside 50. Predominantly, that was because the GWS players had the leg speed to chase down our ball carriers.

We had a young forward half. One of the youngest you'll see in a final. That was a factor.

Marshall, Steele, and Hill were huge, but no other player had significant influence. When we broke even or won clearances we kicked some goals and had GWS under pressure. Just not enough goals. However, the GWS midfield had periods
where they totally dominated us and they piled on goals.

I've been saying it since preseason. We need two quick classy midfielders and a tall gorilla fullback

If we'd had those today we could have knocked off GWS

We were beaten in the first half by our forwards failing to put pressure on the GWS backs when clearing our forward zone. They had many easy exits with no pressure and were able to set up their teammates with easy foot and hand passes.
Chasing backsides with your opponent having a 5 meter start makes you look slow. If more pressure had been applied by our forward line and certain midfielders then who knows what could have been the result.
At least the boys kept battling away and didn't throw the towel in, but it's a shame too many players weren't up to finals pressure. I'm sure Lyon and his coaches will have a brutal review with the players and some will be embarrassed by his analysis.

[SaintPav]

We were beaten with quick movement from stoppages and precise field kicking by GWS. Once they got a break of a couple of metres they were off. Our slow mids couldn't run them down. That gave them time and space to deliver to their forwards. A lot of little things went their way where seeming innocuous situations suddenly turned into a goal, like the Brad Crouch out on the full in the first

We fumbled a lot in the first half and our young forwards got in each other's way. Compounding that was our delivery inside 50. Predominantly, that was because the GWS players had the leg speed to chase down our ball carriers.

We had a young forward half. One of the youngest you'll see in a final. That was a factor.

Marshall, Steele, and Hill were huge, but no other player had significant influence. When we broke even or won clearances we kicked some goals and had GWS under pressure. Just not enough goals. However, the GWS midfield had periods
where they totally dominated us and they piled on goals.

I've been saying it since preseason. We need two quick classy midfielders and a tall gorilla fullback

If we'd had those today we could have knocked off GWS

We were beaten in the first half by our forwards failing to put pressure on the GWS backs when clearing our forward zone. They had many easy exits with no pressure and were able to set up their teammates with easy foot and hand passes.
Chasing backsides with your opponent having a 5 meter start makes you look slow. If more pressure had been applied by our forward line and certain midfielders then who knows what could have been the result.
At least the boys kept battling away and didn't throw the towel in, but it's a shame too many players weren't up to finals pressure. I'm sure Lyon and his coaches will have a brutal review with the players and some will be embarrassed by his analysis.

Brutal post but very true.

Well put!

[Teflon]

I thought Cordy’s job was made a lot harder by great delivery by the GWS mids, who had a lot of unpressured entries inside 50. He was caught out in bad positions, hard to win those.

We could learn a bit from that, we had a couple of chances where we had an outnumber inside 50 but butchered the delivery.

Yep
It felt like EVERY attack we started came from way va k in defence
You’re not going to stop that all day If you can’t win the ball and clear from stoppage
He’s centre clearance were even
Stoppage around the contest and then their spread just killed us
That class , clean ball handling was obvious
To our dumbly, fumbly and at time’s stupid decision making
It’s great Marshall (who played a great game) takes the ball from ruck and bangs on boot….problem is majority end up in opposition hands….far better to have Ro look to handball to a mid stream forward for effect
I’m coming to the conclusion also - we just can’t keep playing 2 small specialist forwards who, in high pressure ganes, go missing
We need a small that can also rotate through midfield
Gresham disposal /composure counts him out
I feel Caminiti (I like the kid) has a long long way to go ….he competes often gets in the way and when ball hit deck he was a liability
Have to hope (with Membrey struggles) Sharman makes it…he’s not nimble but he is dangerous up forward and can use it well by foot
We did have too many passengers yesterday

[Otiman]

The "forward pressure" game was seen to be a poor way to win games. About 1/2 the way into the season the press was pulled back so we had room to rebound from into a more open F50.

I personally think we were better off with the high press, and poor efficiency inside 50, with a lot more I50's overall.

[SaintDippa]

One positive post-match, if I understand correctly, we finish 7th and get a mid table draw.

[DJ Higgins]

What a great year. If you told me we were playing finals at the beginning of the year i would have laughed yet we did. As for the game GWS were better. That's it, we were out played by a better team. They took out our big weapons and moved the ball too quickly for us. All the young guys got a taste of finals footy and will be better for it. I am really looking forward to next year now, more than i have been in a decade.

Take a bow boys

[B.M]

Happy with an elimination final loss?

I was happier with 2020