Cordy or Dougs

[Otiman]

I know people in the crowd seem to panic when Dougal gets it, in d50 but his clangers and turnovers have not been high numbers. A few high profile ones in a game and it was knives out. The bloke is 199cm and people expect him to play like Caleb Daniel.

You may have noticed I'm a Dougal defender, but he must play if fit.

[Vortex]

I know people in the crowd seem to panic when Dougal gets it, in d50 but his clangers and turnovers have not been high numbers. A few high profile ones in a game and it was knives out. The bloke is 199cm and people expect him to play like Caleb Daniel.

You may have noticed I'm a Dougal defender, but he must play if fit.

And is an elite dispatcher of the ball which is ironic with regards to perceived excessive clangers.

[Annoyedsaint]

Everyone knows my thoughts on Howard, so if there is any wet weather around at all then he is not even up for consideration. If it’s dry, then you may possibly consider.

The fact he’s played NO football at all for 6 weeks….
You only bring in guns or needs based with that time frame. He doesn’t qualify as either currently with Battle & Wilkie also there.

[SaintWiki]

I know people in the crowd seem to panic when Dougal gets it, in d50 but his clangers and turnovers have not been high numbers. A few high profile ones in a game and it was knives out. The bloke is 199cm and people expect him to play like Caleb Daniel.

You may have noticed I'm a Dougal defender, but he must play if fit.

And is an elite dispatcher of the ball which is ironic with regards to perceived excessive clangers.

Howard does make a few more clangers than most but he has proven to be sound at holding up his position in the back-line. I'll be happy enough with either, but it'll be match-ups that the selection committee will be looking closely at when deciding who gets the gig I reckon.

[Scollop]

When they were both fit, Dougall was first choice BUT....Dougs hasn't played enough footy recently and consistency and team momentum is part of the consideration.

Ross has trust in Zaine and I think he'll reward Cordy for his recent footy and he'll play him instead of Howard.

I think Cordy has confidence right now and has played good footy with his St Kilda team mates. Ross will ride that momentum.

[Vortex]

I know people in the crowd seem to panic when Dougal gets it, in d50 but his clangers and turnovers have not been high numbers. A few high profile ones in a game and it was knives out. The bloke is 199cm and people expect him to play like Caleb Daniel.

You may have noticed I'm a Dougal defender, but he must play if fit.

And is an elite dispatcher of the ball which is ironic with regards to perceived excessive clangers.

Howard does make a few more clangers than most but he has proven to be sound at holding up his position in the back-line. I'll be happy enough with either, but it'll be match-ups that the selection committee will be looking closely at when deciding who gets the gig I reckon.

This was posted by Yabadoo22 over at BigFooty and represents how I think the coaches will be looking at matchups:

Don’t rule out Ross bringing Howard back in, sending cordy forward as a big body to negate himmleberg and Sharman going out. As much as I am unsure about it, it does give us much better flexibility. If Howard is having a stinker, send cordy back and sub Howard off for a small. Playing Sharman also means Owens probably has to pinch hit in the ruck because Sharman isn’t up to it, whereas if cordy plays forward he is more then capable at going into the middle for 5 minutes a quarter to give Roma a chop out. Cordy also showed early in the year when he played a role forward that he was handy at hitting the scoreboard, or at worst dragging his opponent away from the ball and giving kingy and skunk full access.

B:Webster, Howard, battle
Hb:Sinclair, Wilkie, NWM
C:wood, crouch, windhager
Hf:hill, membrey, gresham
F:higgins, king, phillipou
Foll:Marshall, Steele, owens
Int:Stocker, Ross, butler, cordy
Sub: Byrnes

[Scollop]

Everyone knows my thoughts on Howard, so if there is any wet weather around at all then he is not even up for consideration. If it’s dry, then you may possibly consider.

St Kilda vs GWS will be the third match on the MCG in consecutive days.

They're forecasting wet weather Thursday and Friday so I reckon the turf will be a touch chopped up, regardless if Saturday is dry.

[Scollop]

I know people in the crowd seem to panic when Dougal gets it, in d50 but his clangers and turnovers have not been high numbers. A few high profile ones in a game and it was knives out. The bloke is 199cm and people expect him to play like Caleb Daniel.

You may have noticed I'm a Dougal defender, but he must play if fit.

And is an elite dispatcher of the ball which is ironic with regards to perceived excessive clangers.

Howard does make a few more clangers than most but he has proven to be sound at holding up his position in the back-line. I'll be happy enough with either, but it'll be match-ups that the selection committee will be looking closely at when deciding who gets the gig I reckon.

This was posted by Yabadoo22 over at BigFooty and represents how I think the coaches will be looking at matchups:

Don’t rule out Ross bringing Howard back in, sending cordy forward as a big body to negate himmleberg and Sharman going out. As much as I am unsure about it, it does give us much better flexibility. If Howard is having a stinker, send cordy back and sub Howard off for a small. Playing Sharman also means Owens probably has to pinch hit in the ruck because Sharman isn’t up to it, whereas if cordy plays forward he is more then capable at going into the middle for 5 minutes a quarter to give Roma a chop out. Cordy also showed early in the year when he played a role forward that he was handy at hitting the scoreboard, or at worst dragging his opponent away from the ball and giving kingy and skunk full access.

B:Webster, Howard, battle
Hb:Sinclair, Wilkie, NWM
C:wood, crouch, windhager
Hf:hill, membrey, gresham
F:higgins, king, phillipou
Foll:Marshall, Steele, owens
Int:Stocker, Ross, butler, cordy
Sub: Byrnes

The exploration and experimentation isn't continuing for the Elimination Final

Lyon is not going to suddenly drop Sharman as a forward and replace him with a guy who has been playing as a defender the last 4 games.

If Lyon didn't trust Sharman he wouldn't have been playing him at all.

[Vortex]

I know people in the crowd seem to panic when Dougal gets it, in d50 but his clangers and turnovers have not been high numbers. A few high profile ones in a game and it was knives out. The bloke is 199cm and people expect him to play like Caleb Daniel.

You may have noticed I'm a Dougal defender, but he must play if fit.

And is an elite dispatcher of the ball which is ironic with regards to perceived excessive clangers.

Howard does make a few more clangers than most but he has proven to be sound at holding up his position in the back-line. I'll be happy enough with either, but it'll be match-ups that the selection committee will be looking closely at when deciding who gets the gig I reckon.

This was posted by Yabadoo22 over at BigFooty and represents how I think the coaches will be looking at matchups:

Don’t rule out Ross bringing Howard back in, sending cordy forward as a big body to negate himmleberg and Sharman going out. As much as I am unsure about it, it does give us much better flexibility. If Howard is having a stinker, send cordy back and sub Howard off for a small. Playing Sharman also means Owens probably has to pinch hit in the ruck because Sharman isn’t up to it, whereas if cordy plays forward he is more then capable at going into the middle for 5 minutes a quarter to give Roma a chop out. Cordy also showed early in the year when he played a role forward that he was handy at hitting the scoreboard, or at worst dragging his opponent away from the ball and giving kingy and skunk full access.

B:Webster, Howard, battle
Hb:Sinclair, Wilkie, NWM
C:wood, crouch, windhager
Hf:hill, membrey, gresham
F:higgins, king, phillipou
Foll:Marshall, Steele, owens
Int:Stocker, Ross, butler, cordy
Sub: Byrnes

The exploration and experimentation isn't continuing for the Elimination Final

Lyon is not going to suddenly drop Sharman as a forward and replace him with a guy who has been playing as a defender the last 4 games.

If Lyon didn't trust Sharman he wouldn't have been playing him at all.

I think Hayes not being available would have really frustrated Lyon because clearly he is the best fit structurally in that he is capable of being a very hand forward who can actually clunk a mark as well as play in the ruck and not be rag dolled as well as being capable of laying a hard tackle. Essentially Hayes is built for finals in the position Sharman has been trialled in. Unfortunately for Sharman he’s still a fair way off the pace and definitely not up to finals standard and he had 5 touches against the Lions which confirms he’s not up to it when the heat is on against a finals ready side. That is what I think will keep Sharman out and Doug’s and Cordz the more suitable option for the game ahead. That is all.

[Annoyedsaint]

Everyone knows my thoughts on Howard, so if there is any wet weather around at all then he is not even up for consideration. If it’s dry, then you may possibly consider.

St Kilda vs GWS will be the third match on the MCG in consecutive days.

They're forecasting wet weather Thursday and Friday so I reckon the turf will be a touch chopped up, regardless if Saturday is dry.

The drainage is elite and they’ll have rollers/maintenance around the clock. If it stays dry from lunchtime Satday then the ground will be fine.

[Scollop]

The exploration and experimentation isn't continuing for the Elimination Final

Lyon is not going to suddenly drop Sharman as a forward and replace him with a guy who has been playing as a defender the last 4 games.

If Lyon didn't trust Sharman he wouldn't have been playing him at all.

I think Hayes not being available would have really frustrated Lyon because clearly he is the best fit structurally in that he is capable of being a very hand forward who can actually clunk a mark as well as play in the ruck and not be rag dolled as well as being capable of laying a hard tackle. Essentially Hayes is built for finals in the position Sharman has been trialled in. Unfortunately for Sharman he’s still a fair way off the pace and definitely not up to finals standard and he had 5 touches against the Lions which confirms he’s not up to it when the heat is on against a finals ready side. That is what I think will keep Sharman out and Doug’s and Cordz the more suitable option for the game ahead. That is all.

I would probably have chosen Hayes over Sharman too but Hayes is injured. You’re trying to fabricate an argument based on a guy who isn’t available. If it was a discussion between Hayes and Sharman, of course your reasoning is valid.

Also…being the third banana is the role that Cooper will be performing against GWS. King was out against Brisbane so it’s a bit of a stretch to say that Sharman will be dropped based on one game. I know it fits in with your narrative on Sharman since late 2022, but you’re wrong. It’s ok to admit it

[Vortex]

The exploration and experimentation isn't continuing for the Elimination Final

Lyon is not going to suddenly drop Sharman as a forward and replace him with a guy who has been playing as a defender the last 4 games.

If Lyon didn't trust Sharman he wouldn't have been playing him at all.

I think Hayes not being available would have really frustrated Lyon because clearly he is the best fit structurally in that he is capable of being a very hand forward who can actually clunk a mark as well as play in the ruck and not be rag dolled as well as being capable of laying a hard tackle. Essentially Hayes is built for finals in the position Sharman has been trialled in. Unfortunately for Sharman he’s still a fair way off the pace and definitely not up to finals standard and he had 5 touches against the Lions which confirms he’s not up to it when the heat is on against a finals ready side. That is what I think will keep Sharman out and Doug’s and Cordz the more suitable option for the game ahead. That is all.

I would probably have chosen Hayes over Sharman too but Hayes is injured. You’re trying to fabricate an argument based on a guy who isn’t available. If it was a discussion between Hayes and Sharman, of course your reasoning is valid.

Also…being the third banana is the role that Cooper will be performing against GWS. King was out against Brisbane so it’s a bit of a stretch to say that Sharman will be dropped based on one game. I know it fits in with your narrative on Sharman since late 2022, but you’re wrong. It’s ok to admit it

Ok

[Vortex]

The exploration and experimentation isn't continuing for the Elimination Final

Lyon is not going to suddenly drop Sharman as a forward and replace him with a guy who has been playing as a defender the last 4 games.

If Lyon didn't trust Sharman he wouldn't have been playing him at all.

I think Hayes not being available would have really frustrated Lyon because clearly he is the best fit structurally in that he is capable of being a very hand forward who can actually clunk a mark as well as play in the ruck and not be rag dolled as well as being capable of laying a hard tackle. Essentially Hayes is built for finals in the position Sharman has been trialled in. Unfortunately for Sharman he’s still a fair way off the pace and definitely not up to finals standard and he had 5 touches against the Lions which confirms he’s not up to it when the heat is on against a finals ready side. That is what I think will keep Sharman out and Doug’s and Cordz the more suitable option for the game ahead. That is all.

I would probably have chosen Hayes over Sharman too but Hayes is injured. You’re trying to fabricate an argument based on a guy who isn’t available. If it was a discussion between Hayes and Sharman, of course your reasoning is valid.

Also…being the third banana is the role that Cooper will be performing against GWS. King was out against Brisbane so it’s a bit of a stretch to say that Sharman will be dropped based on one game. I know it fits in with your narrative on Sharman since late 2022, but you’re wrong. It’s ok to admit it

Ok

[Sanctorum]

Webster 188/80 will get first crack on Greene 182/84

Wilkie is not good enough at ground level to go with Greene

Wilkie will get Hogan

Cordy/Howard will get another tall

Then there is Battle

Is Jimmy strong enough to go with him?

Was that who had him last time? If so, it was reasonably effective and you’d expect more of the same

Last time they played Toby Green was kept relatively quiet, 16 disposals, 2 goals and just 65 AF points.

Likewise Jesse Hogan 14 disposals, 2 goals and 72 AF points.

Presumably the team will employ the same strategies for these key players in the elimination final.

[Scollop]

GWS are on a roll. Statistically, in some key areas, they are the strongest team in the top 8.

Their form is different to when we played them 3-4 months ago. Their players (and I mean some of their stars) are high on confidence.

Our pressure and tackling and defensive strategies alone will not win us the game. We need to take them on. Back ourselves and play to win, not play to restrict.

I think we need to first and foremost be on top of our game as far as our midfielders getting first use. Our entries inside 50 need to be effective.

[shanegrambeau]

I don’t know that Hayes would have been picked even if fully fit for this.

And as far as I can tell, Cordy has been a back-up player, and not half the player Of Dougal Howard.

We have looked better with Cordy, I agree.

Maybe he is that special factor, but can that be explained at the selection meeting?

[Scollop]

You go with the flow. You back form. Right now Cordy is defending well

[Big Max]

Big Max comes in for Hayes.

Suggest Battle comes back into the team, so who misses out?

And if Seb Ross is fit? Suggest Byrnes makes way?

The backup ruckman concerns me, I'm not a fan of using Owens in the ruck, especially in September finals.

[Mr Magic]

Big Max comes in for Hayes.

Suggest Battle comes back into the team, so who misses out?

And if Seb Ross is fit? Suggest Byrnes makes way?

The backup ruckman concerns me, I'm not a fan of using Owens in the ruck, especially in September finals.

Battle was concussed and subbed out of the last game, so if he plays he doesn’t replace anyone

[Big Max]

To answer my own question .. I'd be tempted to bring in Caminiti for Sharman .. and use Caminiti to relieve Marshall. It's just 'gut feel' but I reckon Caminiti is the sort of character that could have a breakout game in September.

Perhaps Sharman as the sub.

And to answer the original question, I'd lean toward Howard on the basis of his closing speed and his ability to get to more contests ..

[Vortex]

To answer my own question .. I'd be tempted to bring in Caminiti for Sharman .. and use Caminiti to relieve Marshall. It's just 'gut feel' but I reckon Caminiti is the sort of character that could have a breakout game in September.

Perhaps Sharman as the sub.

And to answer the original question, I'd lean toward Howard on the basis of his closing speed and his ability to get to more contests ..

I'd definitely go with Caminiti over Sharman if Dougs not in the mix, and not for speculative reasons re a possible breakout game ala Dermie, but becasue he's shown he's more capable of not only withstanding the physical side of the game, but also because he relishes the opportunity to dish it out, screams finals potential.

As I've said repeatedly, I can't even see him being in the mix this week after his performance against the Lions, Ross would have been filthy with the meek performance and this is a final after all and we know where Lyon stands on toughness.

[The_Dud]

Secret_Vortex turns a Dougal vs Cordy discussion into bagging out Sharman, what a shock!

Sharman is our third best tall/marking forward option currently fit, he has to play.

[Otiman]

Everyone knows my thoughts on Howard, so if there is any wet weather around at all then he is not even up for consideration. If it’s dry, then you may possibly consider.

The fact he’s played NO football at all for 6 weeks….
You only bring in guns or needs based with that time frame. He doesn’t qualify as either currently with Battle & Wilkie also there.

Would you rather he come into a Semi after 7 weeks, a Prelim after 8, or a GF after 9?

Now's the time. We will need him if we play Brisbane or Carlton this finals series.

[Big Max]

Secret_Vortex turns a Dougal vs Cordy discussion into bagging out Sharman, what a shock!

Sharman is our third best tall/marking forward option currently fit, he has to play.

Hey Dud, it wasn't Vortex who expanded the discussion, it was me.

When discussing team selection you need to look at the whole picture, not just Dougal vs Cordy.

My argument is the need for a back up ruckman. Cordy is capable, but mediocre, and I'm not keen on using Owens. I'd rather preserve him for midfield time.

And on the bigger MCG our wingers will find it difficult to flood back, especially considering how quickly GWS can move the ball, hence we need the closing speed of Howard.

Therefore by my reasoning Cordy doesn't play back. But we still need another tall up forward who can contest as well as chop out in the ruck. And that's not Sharman. Caminiti is a better option.

Sharman was terrible against Brisbane, and should struggle to hold his spot.

[SaintWiki]

GWS are on a roll. Statistically, in some key areas, they are the strongest team in the top 8.

Their form is different to when we played them 3-4 months ago. Their players (and I mean some of their stars) are high on confidence.

Our pressure and tackling and defensive strategies alone will not win us the game. We need to take them on. Back ourselves and play to win, not play to restrict.

I think we need to first and foremost be on top of our game as far as our midfielders getting first use. Our entries inside 50 need to be effective.

Round 10 was in our slump and it was their home game. Yes, they are exceptionally good now but we are not bad either.