Ross Lyon Haters???

[samoht]

The coach adulators need to remember that RL had a dismal 30% w/l record last 4 years at Freo.

What we need now (and have always needed) if we are to become a great team with sustained sucesss ... and not a flash in the pan ... are great recruiters.
Full stop, end of story.

I'll settle for a good coach, as long as we have great recruiters.

[markp]

?

He also took them to their one and only gf appearance (and missed out by 15 points).

Nobody is saying a great coach can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

You're an 'adulator' if you think it better to have a superior coach to an inferior one?

Why do we have to choose between very good coach or very good recruiters... shouldn't we aim for both.

[samoht]

We don't... but we spend too much time on worshipping mere mortals who have donned the title of coach.

The behind the scenes recruiters deserve most of the plaudits or condemnation.
They do most of the heavy lifting or sinking.

[markp]

The 'worship' thing is usually overstated, or if there, mostly a bit of a fun + half a wind-up.

We never see recruiters and we often don't get to see the friuts of their endeavours till a few years down the track.

Maybe we should really 'worship' the people who choose the coach and recruiters.... but it's not how it goes either.

[asiu]

and

after a period of sustained relative success

how is the fallow year
not embraced as also an opportunity

the rest recoup refocussing afresh year
should be seen for the real opportunity it is

fail that stage , 'n everyone starts to feel like a rat on a treadmill
'n regardless of recruiting prowess ,
the environment becomes rancid

queue : big clubwide changes by management

but a bit late , un needed and arse covering by dickheads

[asiu]

flogging your people to death basically

hello !!


learn to ride the wave , reset , ride it again
get in a rhythm for long term success

get the foundation right

[shanegrambeau]

and

after a period of sustained relative success

how is the fallow year
not embraced as also an opportunity

the rest recoup refocussing afresh year
should be seen for the real opportunity it is

fail that stage , 'n everyone starts to feel like a rat on a treadmill
'n regardless of recruiting prowess ,
the environment becomes rancid

queue : big clubwide changes by management

but a bit late , un needed and arse covering by dickheads

I’ve thought about that from time to time too.

How the great machinery is behind (or ahead) of expectations from outside.

Just recently, for instance, I feel in my gut, that Stewart Dew might have been sent packing when there was real change happening at GC.
I don’t mind of course, but just an example.

[SaintPav]

Can Hardwick alone ensure premiership success? There are numerous factors and intangibles at play.

I may have concerns if Martin joins forces with Hardwick.

It will be captivating to witness how everything plays out.

[Lennylegs]

We don't... but we spend too much time on worshipping mere mortals who have donned the title of coach.

The behind the scenes recruiters deserve most of the plaudits or condemnation.
They do most of the heavy lifting or sinking.

The relative success we've had this year has nothing to do with recruiting. We were all but silent during last trade/draft period. Credit has to be given to the new coaches. We're a much tougher team to play against this year, toughest we've been in over a decade. Which, not surprisingly, coincides with Ross's last tenure as coach.

[The Fireman]

Good post lennylegs
Some can’t bring themselves to direct credit to where it’s due

Even when it’s obvious they just don’t want to say they were wrong

[markp]

GC will likely beat NM this week and finish maybe only 2 games plus % out of the 8.

They lost 1 game by 5 points, another by 4 points, and were on the wrong end of some sound thumpings.

If hardwick can be the difference to bridge that gap and they play finals then they'll be rightly delighted and he'll have proven his value.

If he also helps attract very good players and personnel then that only underscores his worth and should be considered part of what he brings.

Same goes for RTB.

[asiu]

I may have concerns if Martin joins forces with Hardwick.

Dusty should come to us on match payments
and performance bonuses after saying

" i'm off to help the Sainters win a flag "

now , that would help.

Dusty was a Saints supporter when he was young (yea?)



then we'd have a bona fide messiah on field as well

Loved by everyone.







(not quite Lendog levels , but close)

[samoht]

The relative success we've had this year has nothing to do with recruiting. We were all but silent during last trade/draft period. Credit has to be given to the new coaches. We're a much tougher team to play against this year, toughest we've been in over a decade. Which, not surprisingly, coincides with Ross's last tenure as coach.

Nothing to do with recruiting?

I think credit must also go to our recent recruiting and the maturing and natural progression of our talented youngsters this year with another pre-season under their belt.
I mean NWM is averaging 24 possessions per game from HBF. Then there's Owens and Windhager - 2 tough and skilled young players.
Stocker is also averaging 17 possessions from half back and is both tough and highly skilled.

Our list is much better placed this year, with much more depth ... I mean Billings is not even getting a look in!!!
Paton has also become a fringe player.

Our recruiters need to now maintain these standards.

We can't overlook other factors (more important ones) just to pump up the coach/coaches. I'm sorry.

Some credit must obviously go to Hayes, Harvey, Goddard and RL - but, the right amount.

[Lennylegs]

The relative success we've had this year has nothing to do with recruiting. We were all but silent during last trade/draft period. Credit has to be given to the new coaches. We're a much tougher team to play against this year, toughest we've been in over a decade. Which, not surprisingly, coincides with Ross's last tenure as coach.

Nothing to do with recruiting?

I think credit must also go to our recent recruiting and the maturing and natural progression of our talented youngsters this year with another pre-season under their belt .
I mean NWM is averaging 24 possessions per game from HBF. Then there's Owens and Windhager - 2 tough and skilled young players.
Stocker is also averaging 17 possessions and is plenty tough.

Our list is much better placed this year ... I mean Billings is not even getting a look in.

Our recruits need to keep up these standards.

I'm not buying the idea that the recent improvement of three second year players is the reason we haven't left the top eight all year. We're harder to score against, more intense around the footy and way less likely to concede multiple goals in quick succession. All of these traits are the bread and butter of Ross Lyon coached sides. If you're not willing to concede that, then I don't know what to tell ya.

Some of you are so blinkered to the obvious facts that it's beyond laughable. I for one am rapt the club is finally in the hands of competent and demanding coaches.

And by the way, I'm definitely not discounting the improvement of the players you've mentioned. They've definitely helped the cause. No doubt.

[samoht]

I'm giving the coaches some credit - the right amount. I'm not going to go overboard by ignoring all else.

[Lennylegs]

Good post lennylegs
Some can’t bring themselves to direct credit to where it’s due

Even when it’s obvious they just don’t want to say they were wrong

Yeah I reckon you're right. I mean, you'd concede at least small portion of credit, wouldn't you? Even if you did hate Ross's guts, it's pretty obvious what he's brought to the side. The traits are all there to see.

[freely]

The objections to RL have never been that he's a lousy coach they're that he's a slimy toerag who makes our club motto a sad joke.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

We've just had our best home and away season since 2011, RTB's previous year as Saints coach. Those arguing that the coach makes no difference have set themselves a challenge.

[markp]

Funny that none of the players or other people who worked at the Club, then, since, or now, all of whom presumably have a better handle on what actually went down, seem to hold him in such contempt.

If he really did behave dishonourably, surely, they wouldn't have had him back.

Maybe (and I know this is very hard to imagine), certain key people in charge at the Club during that time handled negotiations and the relationship with him poorly, left the door open for him, and through it he walked.

[The Fireman]

The objections to RL have never been that he's a lousy coach they're that he's a slimy toerag who makes our club motto a sad joke.

if the slimy toerag gets us a flag how will you feel towards him then ?

[saynta]

Funny that none of the players or other people who worked at the Club, then, since, or now, all of whom presumably have a better handle on what actually went down, seem to hold him in such contempt.

If he really did behave dishonourably, surely, they wouldn't have had him back.

Maybe (and I know this is very hard to imagine), certain key people in charge at the Club during that time handled negotiations and the relationship with him poorly, left the door open for him, and through it he walked.

That's certainly not true but I ain't spilling the beans on the official who said he was a very good coach but an ordinary bloke.

[samoht]

On the other hand, if RL was that great a coach, Freo wouldn't have let him go, markp.
They wouldn't have shut the door on him.

As I said, our coaches deserve some credit, but not the Lyon's share of it.
We got our recent recruiting right ... and our 18 year olds, NWM, Owens, Windy have had 2 years at it, and are becoming players, and are keeping some of our established players out of the side.
Stocker and even Cordy are also proving to be good recruits.

Our list is stronger this year.

[markp]

Funny that none of the players or other people who worked at the Club, then, since, or now, all of whom presumably have a better handle on what actually went down, seem to hold him in such contempt.

If he really did behave dishonourably, surely, they wouldn't have had him back.

Maybe (and I know this is very hard to imagine), certain key people in charge at the Club during that time handled negotiations and the relationship with him poorly, left the door open for him, and through it he walked.

That's certainly not true but I ain't spilling the beans on the official who said he was a very good coach but an ordinary bloke.

Well then that holds absolutely no water.

And 'ordinary bloke' could mean anything... might even say more about the bloke making that charge, and likely has nothing to do with the circumstances of his departure.

But at least now we know you think our coach is a 'slimy toerag'.

[markp]

On the other hand, if RL was that great a coach, Freo wouldn't have let him go, markp.
They wouldn't have shut the door on him.

As I said, our coaches deserve some credit, but not the Lyon's share of it.
We got our recent recruiting right ... and our 18 year olds ... the three talented amigos ... have had 2 years at it, and are becoming players, and are keeping some of our established players out of the side.
Stocker and even Cordy are also proving to be good recruits.

He was easily the best coach they've ever had.

He's easily the second best coach we've ever had.

Hopefully soon to be best.

[desertsaint]

he'll do, he will do.