Ross Lyon’s year of experimentation

[Sanctorum]

I doubt Marshall will be the sole ruckman next year.

When Ross Lyon succeeded Grant Thomas, who for reasons best kown to himself but no-one else decided the team could go all the way wthout a gun ruckman, Lyon couldn't wait to scour the available experienced talent to secure two solid ruckmen in Michael Gardiner and Steven King. It gladdened our hearts and paid big dividends!

You can bet your bottom dollar he will do the same thing again in the post season - my tip is that he'll entice Andrew Phillips (GWS, Carlton, Essendon) out of retirement and wear the RWB next year, he's been in outstanding form this year but with Sam Draper and Nick Bryan plus Peter Wright the Bombers would probably not give him much of a go in 2024.

This will allow extra time to continue the development of Max Heath until he's ready to play in the seniors.

[Mr Magic]

I doubt Marshall will be the sole ruckman next year.

When Ross Lyon succeeded Grant Thomas, who for reasons best kown to himself but no-one else decided the team could go all the way wthout a gun ruckman, Lyon couldn't wait to scour the available experienced talent to secure two solid ruckmen in Michael Gardiner and Steven King. It gladdened our hearts and paid big dividends!

You can bet your bottom dollar he will do the same thing again in the post season - my tip is that he'll entice Andrew Phillips (GWS, Carlton, Essendon) out of retirement and wear the RWB next year, he's been in outstanding form this year but with Sam Draper and Nick Bryan plus Peter Wright the Bombers would probably not give him much of a go in 2024.

This will allow extra time to continue the development of Max Heath until he's ready to play in the seniors.

Is Phillips any better than Campbell as a backup or second ruckman?

[shanegrambeau]

What is the situation with Brodie Grundy?
It seems that Melbourne don’t really have a spot for him in their best… Could we buy him out of his contract with Melbourne? Would Melbourne let home go? Even if they have decided he’ll be a Casey Case? Would he be a good compliment to Holla the Field Marshall?

[SAINT-LEE]

People are still annoyed with him deceiving St Kilda and walking to Fremantle. I don't think it was a great act.

I agree with you, and I'm still annoyed with what he did and how he did it. Just as I am with what Luke Ball did and how he did it.
BUT Lyon's been appointed our Coach and I think it's pretty obvious that under him we've improved this year. So I can give him credit for that as I'm only interested in us improving.

I was annoyed for years myself. Then I hears Ross speak briefly about on the radio from Perth. This is of course his view, but what other source do we have? Rumours?

He said to the effect; I had asked Netts for sit downs regarding my contract & going after talent...but they kept saying let's just wait. I felt the door closing so I accepted an offer to give my family security.

The interviewer said everyone was told the board was offering a new contract the night you resigned. Ross said, that's what they say now. Again the interviewer asked about the secrecy & not telling Craig Kelly. Ross just replied that he wanted a decision based on his family not negotiations, whatever the hell that meant.

I truly believe we were going to cut Ross loose & he believed the same...if hos manager was really negotiating a sweet 4 yr deal that was about to happen, it makes zero sense.

This was on Triple M during the finals. They'd just beat Geelong in 2013 I think it was. Maybe someone can find the interview?
It swayed me. He seemed pretty genuine that he wanted to stay & St Kilda was looking to move him along.

[Mr Magic]

IIRC
The Club and Craig Kelly had arranged a press conference to announce the deal
It was cancelled after news broke that he’d signed with Freo
I’m pretty sure StKilda believed Kelly was authorised to deal on Lyon’s behalf
Kelly’s other coach client Mark Harvey was also blindsided by Freo

I reckon there’s some revisionist history here, but it doesn’t change my position
Lyon is our coach this season and I believe we’ve improved since last season

[shanegrambeau]

People are still annoyed….

…

…
He said to the effect; I had asked Netts for sit downs regarding my contract & going after talent...but they kept saying let's just wait. I felt the door closing so I accepted an offer to give my family security.

..

And this is the chicken and egg conundrum

I was one of the vocal posters who protested the Ratts re-signing of mid-season. ‘Wait until the end of the season’ I protested.

But Ratts and his manager were pushing for early signing.

We did a job on him.
Lyon did a job on us.
That’s how it goes.

[nostalgicsaint]

I doubt Marshall will be the sole ruckman next year.

When Ross Lyon succeeded Grant Thomas, who for reasons best kown to himself but no-one else decided the team could go all the way wthout a gun ruckman, Lyon couldn't wait to scour the available experienced talent to secure two solid ruckmen in Michael Gardiner and Steven King. It gladdened our hearts and paid big dividends!

You can bet your bottom dollar he will do the same thing again in the post season - my tip is that he'll entice Andrew Phillips (GWS, Carlton, Essendon) out of retirement and wear the RWB next year, he's been in outstanding form this year but with Sam Draper and Nick Bryan plus Peter Wright the Bombers would probably not give him much of a go in 2024.

This will allow extra time to continue the development of Max Heath until he's ready to play in the seniors.

Is Phillips any better than Campbell as a backup or second ruckman?

At AFL level.

IMO

Marshall is an A grade ruck (would be A+ with better ruck work)

Phillips is a B grade to B+ ruck.

Campbell a C grade to C+ ruck

[Yorkeys]

Grundy will be going cheap for '24. Poor man's Jack Hayes by then. Ah the challenge he would pose. If you don't have enough already, of course.

[asiu]

We did a job on him.
Lyon did a job on us.
That’s how it goes.

this is true

ross impressed me then
(and still now)
with how he executed ... the deed

that leaves 'Netters' to take his seat on the catapult

(wound to extra tight ... for more thinking time)

where is he now ?

[SAINT-LEE]

People are still annoyed….

…

…
He said to the effect; I had asked Netts for sit downs regarding my contract & going after talent...but they kept saying let's just wait. I felt the door closing so I accepted an offer to give my family security.

..

And this is the chicken and egg conundrum

I was one of the vocal posters who protested the Ratts re-signing of mid-season. ‘Wait until the end of the season’ I protested.

But Ratts and his manager were pushing for early signing.

We did a job on him.
Lyon did a job on us.
That’s how it goes.

Yeah, it's hard to know what really goes on behind closed doors. I don't know that Ross was being purely transparent back in 2013 lol ...but did he really have much to lose by saying it?
Maybe his scenario was true....It sounded like he was saying he felt he had only a few days before he was fired & didn't want to leave his fate in anyone else's hands so he rang Freo himself knowing they were one of 4 clubs that had approached Craig Kelly, so he hauled azz out there and was their coach in less than 48 hrs.
Either way it was bad because he didnt trust Nettleford or Craig Kelly anymore. Maybe they WERE going to accept or present an offer...maybe Ross read it wrong. Contrast this 2013 story with this...

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/ ... 0cc7c54bbb

Jump to 2022...
I guess at the time maybe Ross factored again...but into the Ratts deal? Maybe they thought we have a coach who has the group firing, we can't afford to lose him at years end. So sign him now.


But...in the firing of the Ratt for a Lyon...
Who approached who in the reincarnation of the King of the Jungle?
Did he roar or did we poke him with the honey stick?

Know...Dont I do.

[Trev from the Bush]

I doubt Marshall will be the sole ruckman next year.

When Ross Lyon succeeded Grant Thomas, who for reasons best kown to himself but no-one else decided the team could go all the way wthout a gun ruckman, Lyon couldn't wait to scour the available experienced talent to secure two solid ruckmen in Michael Gardiner and Steven King. It gladdened our hearts and paid big dividends!

You can bet your bottom dollar he will do the same thing again in the post season - my tip is that he'll entice Andrew Phillips (GWS, Carlton, Essendon) out of retirement and wear the RWB next year, he's been in outstanding form this year but with Sam Draper and Nick Bryan plus Peter Wright the Bombers would probably not give him much of a go in 2024.

This will allow extra time to continue the development of Max Heath until he's ready to play in the seniors.

Is Phillips any better than Campbell as a backup or second ruckman?

Nope.

[Sanctorum]

I doubt Marshall will be the sole ruckman next year.

When Ross Lyon succeeded Grant Thomas, who for reasons best kown to himself but no-one else decided the team could go all the way wthout a gun ruckman, Lyon couldn't wait to scour the available experienced talent to secure two solid ruckmen in Michael Gardiner and Steven King. It gladdened our hearts and paid big dividends!

You can bet your bottom dollar he will do the same thing again in the post season - my tip is that he'll entice Andrew Phillips (GWS, Carlton, Essendon) out of retirement and wear the RWB next year, he's been in outstanding form this year but with Sam Draper and Nick Bryan plus Peter Wright the Bombers would probably not give him much of a go in 2024.

This will allow extra time to continue the development of Max Heath until he's ready to play in the seniors.

Is Phillips any better than Campbell as a backup or second ruckman?

Nope.

Come on Trev.....you obviously haven't been watching Phillips like I have, he's had an outstanding season, in many games carrying the ruck burden in Draper's absence. He has a great leap, taps to advantage and goes back or forward as required with telling marks. Campbell's a plodder in comparison and nowhere near as talented.

[skeptic]

People are still annoyed….

…

…
He said to the effect; I had asked Netts for sit downs regarding my contract & going after talent...but they kept saying let's just wait. I felt the door closing so I accepted an offer to give my family security.

..

And this is the chicken and egg conundrum

I was one of the vocal posters who protested the Ratts re-signing of mid-season. ‘Wait until the end of the season’ I protested.

But Ratts and his manager were pushing for early signing.

We did a job on him.
Lyon did a job on us.
That’s how it goes.

Yeah, it's hard to know what really goes on behind closed doors. I don't know that Ross was being purely transparent back in 2013 lol ...but did he really have much to lose by saying it?
Maybe his scenario was true....It sounded like he was saying he felt he had only a few days before he was fired & didn't want to leave his fate in anyone else's hands so he rang Freo himself knowing they were one of 4 clubs that had approached Craig Kelly, so he hauled azz out there and was their coach in less than 48 hrs.
Either way it was bad because he didnt trust Nettleford or Craig Kelly anymore. Maybe they WERE going to accept or present an offer...maybe Ross read it wrong. Contrast this 2013 story with this...

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/ ... 0cc7c54bbb

Jump to 2022...
I guess at the time maybe Ross factored again...but into the Ratts deal? Maybe they thought we have a coach who has the group firing, we can't afford to lose him at years end. So sign him now.


But...in the firing of the Ratt for a Lyon...
Who approached who in the reincarnation of the King of the Jungle?
Did he roar or did we poke him with the honey stick?

Know...Dont I do.

I find it hard to believe that RTB went from 2nd, 2nd and 6th and really thought he was going to be fired with a year on his contract.

As far as the return goes… I have no doubt that the availability and willingness of RTB influenced the sacking of Ratts.

There is absolutely no way they sack a coach that they JUST signed without a perceived better option on the table

[saynta]

Both good coaches IMHFO.

[SAINT-LEE]

People are still annoyed….

…

…
He said to the effect; I had asked Netts for sit downs regarding my contract & going after talent...but they kept saying let's just wait. I felt the door closing so I accepted an offer to give my family security.

..

And this is the chicken and egg conundrum

I was one of the vocal posters who protested the Ratts re-signing of mid-season. ‘Wait until the end of the season’ I protested.

But Ratts and his manager were pushing for early signing.

We did a job on him.
Lyon did a job on us.
That’s how it goes.

Yeah, it's hard to know what really goes on behind closed doors. I don't know that Ross was being purely transparent back in 2013 lol ...but did he really have much to lose by saying it?
Maybe his scenario was true....It sounded like he was saying he felt he had only a few days before he was fired & didn't want to leave his fate in anyone else's hands so he rang Freo himself knowing they were one of 4 clubs that had approached Craig Kelly, so he hauled azz out there and was their coach in less than 48 hrs.
Either way it was bad because he didnt trust Nettleford or Craig Kelly anymore. Maybe they WERE going to accept or present an offer...maybe Ross read it wrong. Contrast this 2013 story with this...

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/ ... 0cc7c54bbb

Jump to 2022...
I guess at the time maybe Ross factored again...but into the Ratts deal? Maybe they thought we have a coach who has the group firing, we can't afford to lose him at years end. So sign him now.


But...in the firing of the Ratt for a Lyon...
Who approached who in the reincarnation of the King of the Jungle?
Did he roar or did we poke him with the honey stick?

Know...Dont I do.

I find it hard to believe that RTB went from 2nd, 2nd and 6th and really thought he was going to be fired with a year on his contract.

As far as the return goes… I have no doubt that the availability and willingness of RTB influenced the sacking of Ratts.

There is absolutely no way they sack a coach that they JUST signed without a perceived better option on the table

Certainly seems more feasiable RTB knew our list & saw a dive comin so he jumped ship quickly. Which stinks. But it was smart.

[Mr Magic]

Wasn’t it reported at the time that he had a financial setback and Freo offered more money for 5 years?

[saynta]

Wasn’t it reported at the time that he had a financial setback and Freo offered more money for 5 years?

Yep. Nothing wrong with your memory.

[Trev from the Bush]

I doubt Marshall will be the sole ruckman next year.

When Ross Lyon succeeded Grant Thomas, who for reasons best kown to himself but no-one else decided the team could go all the way wthout a gun ruckman, Lyon couldn't wait to scour the available experienced talent to secure two solid ruckmen in Michael Gardiner and Steven King. It gladdened our hearts and paid big dividends!

You can bet your bottom dollar he will do the same thing again in the post season - my tip is that he'll entice Andrew Phillips (GWS, Carlton, Essendon) out of retirement and wear the RWB next year, he's been in outstanding form this year but with Sam Draper and Nick Bryan plus Peter Wright the Bombers would probably not give him much of a go in 2024.

This will allow extra time to continue the development of Max Heath until he's ready to play in the seniors.

Is Phillips any better than Campbell as a backup or second ruckman?

Nope.

Come on Trev.....you obviously haven't been watching Phillips like I have, he's had an outstanding season, in many games carrying the ruck burden in Draper's absence. He has a great leap, taps to advantage and goes back or forward as required with telling marks. Campbell's a plodder in comparison and nowhere near as talented.

What on earth have you been thinking? Watching Essendon!!!

[saynta]

I doubt Marshall will be the sole ruckman next year.

When Ross Lyon succeeded Grant Thomas, who for reasons best kown to himself but no-one else decided the team could go all the way wthout a gun ruckman, Lyon couldn't wait to scour the available experienced talent to secure two solid ruckmen in Michael Gardiner and Steven King. It gladdened our hearts and paid big dividends!

You can bet your bottom dollar he will do the same thing again in the post season - my tip is that he'll entice Andrew Phillips (GWS, Carlton, Essendon) out of retirement and wear the RWB next year, he's been in outstanding form this year but with Sam Draper and Nick Bryan plus Peter Wright the Bombers would probably not give him much of a go in 2024.

This will allow extra time to continue the development of Max Heath until he's ready to play in the seniors.

Is Phillips any better than Campbell as a backup or second ruckman?

Nope.

Come on Trev.....you obviously haven't been watching Phillips like I have, he's had an outstanding season, in many games carrying the ruck burden in Draper's absence. He has a great leap, taps to advantage and goes back or forward as required with telling marks. Campbell's a plodder in comparison and nowhere near as talented.

What on earth have you been thinking? Watching Essendon!!!

LOL. there are some teams I would never watch.

The druggies, Freo and Port for starters.

[Sanctorum]

What on earth have you been thinking? Watching Essendon!!!

Haha....I watch a fair few games and don't hold any strong dislikes for any particular team, it's just a matter of getting to know which players are 'up and about'. Like yesterday I was motivated to watch some of the Port v Freo game in order to see how Liam Henry performed as he's been mentioned as possibly coming to Moorabbin next year. He played really well....

[The G Train Legacy]

IIRC
The Club and Craig Kelly had arranged a press conference to announce the deal
It was cancelled after news broke that he’d signed with Freo
I’m pretty sure StKilda believed Kelly was authorised to deal on Lyon’s behalf
Kelly’s other coach client Mark Harvey was also blindsided by Freo

I reckon there’s some revisionist history here, but it doesn’t change my position
Lyon is our coach this season and I believe we’ve improved since last season

The problem is, that aborted Press Conference should have been happening at the end of 2010 or beginning of 2011 at the latest.

Nettlefold was an arse-clown and Westaway disinterested. They tried to low ball Lyon and maybe were pushing him out. In the end Lyon did what any bloke with self respect should do.

Its amazing that many have bitterness towards Lyon over that fiasco, whilst Westaway and Nettlefold and their clown show don't rate a mention. They're spectacular incompetence in losing our best Coach since Jeans coming on the back of the inspired move to Seaford.

Then they proceeded to hire Watters over Hinkley, then Richo over 'Choco' Williams.

[Mr Magic]

IIRC
The Club and Craig Kelly had arranged a press conference to announce the deal
It was cancelled after news broke that he’d signed with Freo
I’m pretty sure StKilda believed Kelly was authorised to deal on Lyon’s behalf
Kelly’s other coach client Mark Harvey was also blindsided by Freo

I reckon there’s some revisionist history here, but it doesn’t change my position
Lyon is our coach this season and I believe we’ve improved since last season

The problem is, that aborted Press Conference should have been happening at the end of 2010 or beginning of 2011 at the latest.

Nettlefold was an arse-clown and Westaway disinterested. They tried to low ball Lyon and maybe were pushing him out. In the end Lyon did what any bloke with self respect should do.

Its amazing that many have bitterness towards Lyon over that fiasco, whilst Westaway and Nettlefold and their clown show don't rate a mention. They're spectacular incompetence in losing our best Coach since Jeans coming on the back of the inspired move to Seaford.

Then they proceeded to hire Watters over Hinkley, then Richo over 'Choco' Williams.

I have no knowledge of what transpired other than what I recall was reported at the time.
Maybe the truth lies somewhere between the 2 POVs?
All I can remember is at the time it appeared as if Lyon went behind the backs of StKilda and his management and did a deal (via a solicitor) with Freo.

None of this though matters today as he's our Coach and I want him to succeed.

[The G Train Legacy]

IIRC
The Club and Craig Kelly had arranged a press conference to announce the deal
It was cancelled after news broke that he’d signed with Freo
I’m pretty sure StKilda believed Kelly was authorised to deal on Lyon’s behalf
Kelly’s other coach client Mark Harvey was also blindsided by Freo

I reckon there’s some revisionist history here, but it doesn’t change my position
Lyon is our coach this season and I believe we’ve improved since last season

The problem is, that aborted Press Conference should have been happening at the end of 2010 or beginning of 2011 at the latest.

Nettlefold was an arse-clown and Westaway disinterested. They tried to low ball Lyon and maybe were pushing him out. In the end Lyon did what any bloke with self respect should do.

Its amazing that many have bitterness towards Lyon over that fiasco, whilst Westaway and Nettlefold and their clown show don't rate a mention. They're spectacular incompetence in losing our best Coach since Jeans coming on the back of the inspired move to Seaford.

Then they proceeded to hire Watters over Hinkley, then Richo over 'Choco' Williams.

I have no knowledge of what transpired other than what I recall was reported at the time.
Maybe the truth lies somewhere between the 2 POVs?
All I can remember is at the time it appeared as if Lyon went behind the backs of StKilda and his management and did a deal (via a solicitor) with Freo.

None of this though matters today as he's our Coach and I want him to succeed.

You could be right. These are the undisputed facts:

We didn't discuss his contract at the end of 2010 after appearing in the previous 2 Grand Finals.

When he asked the Club to initiate negotiations in early 2011, the Club put the negotiations off.

When the Club finally made its offer, after Lyon had knocked back Melbourne and Freo had made him an offer, they finally offered him what he'd asked for early in 2011. Unfortunately, far too late.

[The Fireman]

None of this though matters today as he's our Coach and I want him to succeed.

Some others on here could take a leaf out of your book

[Brunswicksainter]

We’re we better with Ryder and Marshall

Than Solo Marshall in 2019
And Solo Marshall this season

And if so, why?

Both had different strengths as ruckmen- but only one could ruck at a time?

They both were average forwards and preferred playing ruck

Gawn and Grundy doesn’t work
Darcy and Jackson doesn’t work

All 4 (like Marshall) prefer the #1 mantle and 80+ percent in the ruck!

We are categorically better with Marshall as sole ruck. Ryder Marshall combo was disastrous for us in 2021 and 2022.

Can't we make Marshall a tall mid and get a quality tap ruckman?

Isn't that Owens role when he goes into the middle?

Marshall is mobile for his height but I don’t think starting him in centre bounces as a stand alone mid would work as the opposition mids are more agile and quicker.

If we did get a good tap ruckman, trying him on a wing would be interesting.

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