Credit

[shanegrambeau]

One thing I have to say I don’t like about Ross’ game in general…

Have a look at Richmond’s first goal in the second quarter, about 1min in. It’s on the highlights reel on the AFL app. Bauer maybe?

Richmond player bombs it in fast from 50m and flukishly it goes into space. Cordy is caught behind and his opponent has a the run opportunity to run and leap.

A few meters in front of him however is Ross. He’s almost right there where the ball is going to land but he backs off to mind his opponent. He then stands by and watches, shepherds out his opponent yes, but has a clear view of the contest and essentially let’s the tiger forward mark unopposed when he’s in the perfect position to spoil from in front.
He’s got a little bit of form in this regard… really doesn’t do well when being dragged forward. Is a bit prone to concentrating solely on his own thing opposed to doing the team play at times. Pbly not that confident in the air I guess

Yes, I think so. From my under 15s (C team) eye, he definitely looks like a player that ‘stays in the envelope’ of his limits and plays percentages. Overall, the way the team is, I think we are better for it and he was a welcome sight in the team this week. Not ideal perhaps, but solidifying. He wasn’t gonna do a hammy kicking the skin off that ball when kicking for goal either..and again fair enough. I don’t expect kamikaze charges either, but not through lack of courage, just playin* it cool ..for our and his betterment.

[Sanctorum]

I came to the same conclusion, it was a major fail by Ross, as well as his inabiility to reach the goal line with a set shot from 40m out.

Nonethless he had a very good game yesterday, and I understand he is staying on next year. However at age 30 he is likely to become more of a depth player as St Kilda's midfield stocks are going to be significantly augmented for 2024.

[Scollop]

If we're going to critique the players and review the game, then it starts with what we did well and what we did poorly.

Our pressure was great from the first bounce. Our turnover game was great. Our run and teamwork was back and disposal by foot was very good. Our set shot accuracy and overall kicking for goal was great (apart from Higgo...but that's normal from him)

Our defence looked solid as usual. Battle, Webster and Nas did their job well. Wilkie and Cordy were brilliant.

NWM also a huge part of our chains starting from half back. He's becoming a gun and probably our best first round pick in 15 years. Sincs, our second best rookie pick ( Marshall has to win that honour).

On Max King, I think Bolta had his mind on other things and not defending St Kilda's most damaging forward. E.g First couple of goals Max Kicked, Noah was no where near him as our mids and half backs were streaming forward. Max first goal came from Bolta giving him a 20 metre leash.

Max took advantage and kicked straight. Max also needs to attack the footy. That first goal he waited on his heels instead of meeting the footy at its highest point. He marked in front of his face. If Bolta wasn't thinking about Bali, he would have easily spoiled. You don't give a sucker an even chance. It gave Max the confidence he needed to have a good game.

RoMa was important as per Tackle article viewtopic.php?t=106547 Marshall's contested marking and goals are inspirational to his team mates. The other contest beast is Michito Owens. Chito is amazing with his ability to win loose ground balls and to effectively clear congestion.

A few other constants. Sinclair/Steele/Sebby gave effort for 4 quarters. Crouch continues to be one of the highest for pressure acts, but too many times his disposal is of no benefit to his team. His metres gained for this game probably the lowest of any mid in the league.

Richmond have won 3 flags. Their tummies are full. They're not interested in just scraping in to 8th. Some of their players were thinking about Bali and overseas holidays prior to this game.

It was a strange game. At one point in the second quarter about 9 minutes in, the big screen at Marvel flashed some statistics. We had 30 tackles they had 10. At this stage we were in control and about 4 goals up but we were struggling at stoppages.

By the end of half time and with a total of 15 goals scored, we were yet to win a single centre clearance. We got a couple of free kicks at centre bounce (which are counted on the stat book) but we didn't win a single genuine centre clearance. Not even 1!!

The umpiring was a bit weird too. In our favour mostly. Couple of nice soft frees just when we needed them.

The other weird things were that Brad Hill and Cooper Sharman were winning free kicks from their tackling!! Cooper had a good game as did Hill. Brad was important. Cooper keeps showing good signs. He makes good decisions and executes well by foot.

[SaintWiki]

If we're going to critique the players and review the game, then it starts with what we did well and what we did poorly.

Our pressure was great from the first bounce. Our turnover game was great. Our run and teamwork was back and disposal by foot was very good. Our set shot accuracy and overall kicking for goal was great (apart from Higgo...but that's normal from him)

Our defence looked solid as usual. Battle, Webster and Nas did their job well. Wilkie and Cordy were brilliant.

NWM also a huge part of our chains starting from half back. He's becoming a gun and probably our best first round pick in 15 years. Sincs, our second best rookie pick ( Marshall has to win that honour).

On Max King, I think Bolta had his mind on other things and not defending St Kilda's most damaging forward. E.g First couple of goals Max Kicked, Noah was no where near him as our mids and half backs were streaming forward. Max first goal came from Bolta giving him a 20 metre leash.

Max took advantage and kicked straight. Max also needs to attack the footy. That first goal he waited on his heels instead of meeting the footy at its highest point. He marked in front of his face. If Bolta wasn't thinking about Bali, he would have easily spoiled. You don't give a sucker an even chance. It gave Max the confidence he needed to have a good game.

RoMa was important as per Tackle article viewtopic.php?t=106547 Marshall's contested marking and goals are inspirational to his team mates. The other contest beast is Michito Owens. Chito is amazing with his ability to win loose ground balls and to effectively clear congestion.

A few other constants. Sinclair/Steele/Sebby gave effort for 4 quarters. Crouch continues to be one of the highest for pressure acts, but too many times his disposal is of no benefit to his team. His metres gained for this game probably the lowest of any mid in the league.

Richmond have won 3 flags. Their tummies are full. They're not interested in just scraping in to 8th. Some of their players were thinking about Bali and overseas holidays prior to this game.

It was a strange game. At one point in the second quarter about 9 minutes in, the big screen at Marvel flashed some statistics. We had 30 tackles they had 10. At this stage we were in control and about 4 goals up but we were struggling at stoppages.

By the end of half time and with a total of 15 goals scored, we were yet to win a single centre clearance. We got a couple of free kicks at centre bounce (which are counted on the stat book) but we didn't win a single genuine centre clearance. Not even 1!!

The umpiring was a bit weird too. In our favour mostly. Couple of nice soft frees just when we needed them.

The other weird things were that Brad Hill and Cooper Sharman were winning free kicks from their tackling!! Cooper had a good game as did Hill. Brad was important. Cooper keeps showing good signs. He makes good decisions and executes well by foot.

Shhhhhhh - just as well we are told that 'clubs and players don't read the rubbish on SS'.

[B.M]

Wtf are you talking about

We won the first centre clearance?!

[B.M]

He was probably expecting the Richmond player’s opponent- Tall Defender to spoil

He would’ve done what most mids would do in a high ball contest

Stay down and with get front and square or find your opponent

If Ross flew and the ball spilled to his opponent

Would thatve been his fault too?

[skeptic]

He was probably expecting the Richmond player’s opponent- Tall Defender to spoil

He would’ve done what most mids would do in a high ball contest

Stay down and with get front and square or find your opponent

If Ross flew and the ball spilled to his opponent

Would thatve been his fault too?

This is what I love about you BM…
As a forumite, as long as I’ve known you’ve always fired the mantra when it’s your turn, you go. Do the team thing. IMO there’s no greater way to alienate you and have you write off a play then someone not going the contest when the team needs them too and it costs a goal… a critical one.

You’ve always applied it equally to every player ever… except Seb Ross. This is not the first time we’ve had this discussion about him in this context and when he failed to go with Dangers who kicked the match winning goal… you made excuses for him then.

I don’t know if you watched the footage… but Seb watched and had a perfect view of it. He saw Cordy was way off the pace.

I posted this with you in mind because I was certain you’d reveal a bias again and you have.

If that was Cooper Sharman… contest was there, needed to go the spoil, stepped back, guarded his man and let the opposition take an uncontested mark when the game was in the balance whilst we’re fighting for a finals spot… you would be ROPABLE. You would scream drop to Sandy reserves, delist, make him sterile and murder his parents. You would hold that grudge until he was gone and criticise every play and every effort until the end of time. Every goal kicked would be nothing more then minimal expectation and every miss would be a capitulation.

I like you BM… but you play favourites

[B.M]

Firstly

Cooper Sharman is a 193cm marking tall and yes he’d be expected to go in that situation

On Seb, how Many years has he been playing now? In that time how many overhead contested marks has he taken in that time

I’d fully expect him not to go in that situation and locate his man.

As far as knowing where Cordy was, he would’ve tracked the ball, and then looked to locate his opponent- which is what you generally do

I’d also say, Seb has never shirked a ground ball contest! He’s actually a very tough, durable player - you don’t play 200 as an inside mid otherwise

Lastly
Yes, I do play favourites- with good players

[Scollop]

Wtf are you talking about

We won the first centre clearance?!

The first centre bounce resulted in a scrimmage. That means it turned into a normal stoppage and other players are allowed in the centre square

Guess what? The second stoppage right near the edge of the centre circle also resulted in no clear advantage and players unable to get a clearance.

The umpire had to throw it up a 3rd time before there was a clearance. I don't know about you, but I call that a stoppage clearance AND NOT a centre clearance.

[B.M]

Does that matter?

We still won the ball after halving the CB

[Scollop]

Does that matter?

We still won the ball after halving the CB

I didn't say we failed at all clearance opportunities. I said we failed to get a centre clearance in the first half...after 16 centre bounces (1 at the start and 15 after each goal)

It matters when you say to someone wtf are you talking about

[Teflon]

Still no mention of coaching ?
Only gets a run after a loss I guess ??
Good to know

[Scollop]

Still no mention of coaching ?
Only gets a run after a loss I guess ??
Good to know

Tell us how he mastered us losing every centre clearance in the first half?

Actually....no wait..Tell us what he did well

Tell us how he helped Bolta stay 10m or more away from King so King could easily get his first opportunity.

Tell us how he helped Sharman, Owens and King kick straight.

Tell us how he helped Gresh kick our first 2 goals.

[skeptic]

Firstly

Cooper Sharman is a 193cm marking tall and yes he’d be expected to go in that situation

On Seb, how Many years has he been playing now? In that time how many overhead contested marks has he taken in that time

I’d fully expect him not to go in that situation and locate his man.

As far as knowing where Cordy was, he would’ve tracked the ball, and then looked to locate his opponent- which is what you generally do

I’d also say, Seb has never shirked a ground ball contest! He’s actually a very tough, durable player - you don’t play 200 as an inside mid otherwise

Lastly
Yes, I do play favourites- with good players

Watch the footage BM, he didn’t ‘look to locate his opponent’ he already knew where his opponent was as blocked him despite his back was turned. He 100% saw a Richmond player running uncontested towards a mark exactly where Seb was standing with that forwards opponent trailing was and he not only didn’t go up but back away.

The problem with playing favourites in your case it it clouds judgement. No one here suggested that Seb isn’t a good player… but that was a really bad effort that your choosing to turn a blind eye too. Not an admirable trait

I judge efforts based on performance and outcome… not whether I like one player more than another

[B.M]

Why isn’t Cordy at fault?

Trailing his opponent

Or should Seb cover his man and Cordy’s?

He’s not a KPP who takes contested marks - in fact he’s poor overhead

What he is
Clean hands, great inside vision and elite handballer

If it were Darcy Moore or Tom Stewart or Sicily or Vlaustin or Andrew’s or Lever

Yes - impact aerially- but an inside mid?

Not sure Tom Mitchell or Adam Treloar or Zac Merritt would have gone either?


Btw
How did Seb play?

Or is impossible to give him plaudits without being back handed??

[Scollop]

C'mon Teffers

What are you doing?

Searching bigfooty for your answers...

[skeptic]

Why isn’t Cordy at fault?

Trailing his opponent

Or should Seb cover his man and Cordy’s?

He’s not a KPP who takes contested marks - in fact he’s poor overhead

What he is
Clean hands, great inside vision and elite handballer

If it were Darcy Moore or Tom Stewart or Sicily or Vlaustin or Andrew’s or Lever

Yes - impact aerially- but an inside mid?

Not sure Tom Mitchell or Adam Treloar or Zac Merritt would have gone either?


Btw
How did Seb play?

Or is impossible to give him plaudits without being back handed??

Who said it wasn’t? Cordy’s man got the drop on him. It happens. Ross had the opportunity to try and help out, cover for a team mate by taking 2 steps forward, jumping and raising his fist in the air.

Now apparently your argument is that it’s okay that he didn’t even try,

That’s a good mantra apparently. Everybody just focus on yourself. See here is where you bias gets ridiculous. It was a poor effort… it was a bad play and you just won’t admit it.

Instead you fire up these BS rationalisations. The rest of Ross’ game was great. Yeah it was. Doesn’t change the fact that that was a poor effort and he should have done better.

He pbly wouldn’t have made the spoil anyway… pbly. I wouldn’t have blamed him if he tried and was beaten… but apparently your advocating that he doesn’t even need to do that much. Those other mids you listed… my bet is all of them would have attempted. Pbly unsuccessfully but they would have tried.

Boy I look forward to the next time you roast Max King or Brad Hill for missing a tackle… or Dougal Howard for missing a target… I mean he’s a defender, why should he be expected to kick the ball accurately to a team mate under pressure… why should he even try.

[takeaway]

Why isn’t Cordy at fault?

Trailing his opponent

Or should Seb cover his man and Cordy’s?

He’s not a KPP who takes contested marks - in fact he’s poor overhead

What he is
Clean hands, great inside vision and elite handballer

If it were Darcy Moore or Tom Stewart or Sicily or Vlaustin or Andrew’s or Lever

Yes - impact aerially- but an inside mid?

Not sure Tom Mitchell or Adam Treloar or Zac Merritt would have gone either?


Btw
How did Seb play?

Or is impossible to give him plaudits without being back handed??

Who said it wasn’t? Cordy’s man got the drop on him. It happens. Ross had the opportunity to try and help out, cover for a team mate by taking 2 steps forward, jumping and raising his fist in the air.

Now apparently your argument is that it’s okay that he didn’t even try,

That’s a good mantra apparently. Everybody just focus on yourself. See here is where you bias gets ridiculous. It was a poor effort… it was a bad play and you just won’t admit it.

Instead you fire up these BS rationalisations. The rest of Ross’ game was great. Yeah it was. Doesn’t change the fact that that was a poor effort and he should have done better.

He pbly wouldn’t have made the spoil anyway… pbly. I wouldn’t have blamed him if he tried and was beaten… but apparently your advocating that he doesn’t even need to do that much. Those other mids you listed… my bet is all of them would have attempted. Pbly unsuccessfully but they would have tried.

Boy I look forward to the next time you roast Max King or Brad Hill for missing a tackle… or Dougal Howard for missing a target… I mean he’s a defender, why should he be expected to kick the ball accurately to a team mate under pressure… why should he even try.

Didn't see much in it. You could probably nitpick several times a game for each player on the ground where they "didn't do the right thing". Not sure this was one of them. Jimmy Webster was also nearby, also decided to stick to his man, and he is certainly one who doesn't hesitate to come across for an attempted spoil. Seb making a vain attempt to spoil against a much taller opponent with a clear run and jump to the ball would have given tigers two good options, take the mark (which he would've anyway), or ball to ground, and Seb's (or Jimmy's) free opponent a good chance of running into goal. Nothing worse than players leaving their man with little chance of impact, and leaving forwards free. Not an issue for me at all.

Try to pick a better one.

[The_Dud]

Every player must go when it's their turn, whether they're the biggest or smallest bloke on the ground.

Should be a non-negotiable.

[B.M]

Players make hundreds of instinctive decisions per game

We highlight Seb (like Ralph Clarke, Sam Gilbert etc) because they are whipping boys.

We look for bad decisions or execution mistakes (which every player makes!)

Ie/ he played a ripper game and was close to BOG

What do we remember

The fact he didn’t attempt to cover Cordy’s man by aerially contesting a D50 entry. Not that he worked to get in d50 to cover his man


The fact a 45m kick at goal dropped short and was an uncontested mark on the goal line - which should never happen
Not that he won the footy twice in 20 seconds and got a shot on goal.


We LOOK for faults when it comes to Seb and refuse to acknowledge his actual performance
He is a scapegoat for a decade of mediocre performances- as if it’s his fault he wasn’t better than being our best player?!

I defend him - because I see the production from him as an AFL mid who has been an outstanding contributor and servant of the club!

[skeptic]

Webster is further away with two players between him and where the contest would be.

If there’s a suggestion he should have gone, then absolutely Ross should have

And for the record… the tigers playing chest marks it. He doesn’t catch it high above his head… Ross’ height is irrelevant here.

If he got in front… which apparently is too much to ask, he would have been in a better position to mark it… not that anyone is asking that. It’s an easy spoil he should have made.

This commentary is getting funny now.

BM, can you defend this play any more without bringing up Ross’ BOG status, dual B&F wins, a list of other whipping boys, other club players that may have but haven’t done the same, trying to find other players further away to blame or my favourite argument: if Ross doesn’t allow a certain goal by attempting to spoil, the opposition might get a chance to kick a goal through Ross’ man

Anything on the actual play itself… which I’ll point out was merely commentary on one play with no other implications beyond that I’ve seen him do this type of thing before

[The_Dud]

Players make hundreds of instinctive decisions per game

We highlight Seb (like Ralph Clarke, Sam Gilbert etc) because they are whipping boys.

We look for bad decisions or execution mistakes (which every player makes!)

Ie/ he played a ripper game and was close to BOG

What do we remember

The fact he didn’t attempt to cover Cordy’s man by aerially contesting a D50 entry. Not that he worked to get in d50 to cover his man


The fact a 45m kick at goal dropped short and was an uncontested mark on the goal line - which should never happen
Not that he won the footy twice in 20 seconds and got a shot on goal.


We LOOK for faults when it comes to Seb and refuse to acknowledge his actual performance
He is a scapegoat for a decade of mediocre performances- as if it’s his fault he wasn’t better than being our best player?!

I defend him - because I see the production from him as an AFL mid who has been an outstanding contributor and servant of the club!

Do you not do the exact opposite with Seb because he is one of your favourites?

[saynta]

If we're going to critique the players and review the game, then it starts with what we did well and what we did poorly.

Our pressure was great from the first bounce. Our turnover game was great. Our run and teamwork was back and disposal by foot was very good. Our set shot accuracy and overall kicking for goal was great (apart from Higgo...but that's normal from him)

Our defence looked solid as usual. Battle, Webster and Nas did their job well. Wilkie and Cordy were brilliant.

NWM also a huge part of our chains starting from half back. He's becoming a gun and probably our best first round pick in 15 years. Sincs, our second best rookie pick ( Marshall has to win that honour).

On Max King, I think Bolta had his mind on other things and not defending St Kilda's most damaging forward. E.g First couple of goals Max Kicked, Noah was no where near him as our mids and half backs were streaming forward. Max first goal came from Bolta giving him a 20 metre leash.

Max took advantage and kicked straight. Max also needs to attack the footy. That first goal he waited on his heels instead of meeting the footy at its highest point. He marked in front of his face. If Bolta wasn't thinking about Bali, he would have easily spoiled. You don't give a sucker an even chance. It gave Max the confidence he needed to have a good game.

RoMa was important as per Tackle article viewtopic.php?t=106547 Marshall's contested marking and goals are inspirational to his team mates. The other contest beast is Michito Owens. Chito is amazing with his ability to win loose ground balls and to effectively clear congestion.

A few other constants. Sinclair/Steele/Sebby gave effort for 4 quarters. Crouch continues to be one of the highest for pressure acts, but too many times his disposal is of no benefit to his team. His metres gained for this game probably the lowest of any mid in the league.

Richmond have won 3 flags. Their tummies are full. They're not interested in just scraping in to 8th. Some of their players were thinking about Bali and overseas holidays prior to this game.

It was a strange game. At one point in the second quarter about 9 minutes in, the big screen at Marvel flashed some statistics. We had 30 tackles they had 10. At this stage we were in control and about 4 goals up but we were struggling at stoppages.

By the end of half time and with a total of 15 goals scored, we were yet to win a single centre clearance. We got a couple of free kicks at centre bounce (which are counted on the stat book) but we didn't win a single genuine centre clearance. Not even 1!!

The umpiring was a bit weird too. In our favour mostly. Couple of nice soft frees just when we needed them.

The other weird things were that Brad Hill and Cooper Sharman were winning free kicks from their tackling!! Cooper had a good game as did Hill. Brad was important. Cooper keeps showing good signs. He makes good decisions and executes well by foot.

Cooper , as I have stated before, is a natural footballer. And a smart one at that.

[Yorkeys]

To retention approach to Gresham. No point making an offer unless you want to play for the club. Refreshingly hard nosed. Call us when you decide.

[silverhalo]

To retention approach to Gresham. No point making an offer unless you want to play for the club. Refreshingly hard nosed. Call us when you decide.

Love it!