Forum costs, maintenance and advertising

[The_Dud]

Vote results FWIW:

Are you okay with advertising on the forum to assist with costs and maintenance?
YES 86%
NO 14%
(51 votes)

Nick, you still haven't told us what contributions would be required to leave things as they are.

I hope we haven’t got another Simon on our hands, Simon was desperate to commercialise the site for some strange reason (insert sarcasm emoji).

Yes N1ck was given the very clear message that he could raise the money needed without commercialising the site and he has been very sneaky in the way he framed the question for his vote.

Folks we’ve been down this road before with an individual and his hidden agenda and you will seriously regret a site with intrusive advertising and be spammed with adds to hook up with girls from Ukrain.

A little transparency would go a long way, many question have been asked of you N1ck in this thread and you have conveniently not answered them.

What’s the agenda?

Ol' Secret_Vortex will jam a conspiracy theory into anything!

Definitely not a troll though...

[n1ck]

Results were posted purely without context for this reason.

There is no decision, solely results.

The reality is that both options - contributions and advertising - are possible, if not probable, in some combination.

I have given costs as I know it so far. The problem is in the unknown. The last outages have cost upwards of US$300 to resolve. Previous issues have cost US$70-80 each time.

Right now basic running costs equate to approximately $1500 annually but as I have stated a number of times in the last few months, this forum's infrastructure has been patched and fixed and papered over so many times it is not sustainable. It needs ALOT of work to upgrade, update, resolve ALOT of things. Security. Privacy. Software. Hardware. Marketing. Design. Moderation.

To simply keep it alive I estimate approximately AUD$2000 per year. Maybe more depending on how many tech issues arise. To improve and upgrade and provide a better experience will cost exponentially more.

[n1ck]

What’s the agenda?

No agenda. Simple yes or no question based on the content and context provided.
Not everything is a conspiracy, but yes, everything costs something.

[whiskers3614]

I for one would be happy to pitch in $50-$60 per annum.
Who else would like to do similar, or more or less?
Let’s give N1ck an idea of what is possible internally and that should make decision easier than depending on votes

[n1ck]

I for one would be happy to pitch in $50-$60 per annum.
Who else would like to do similar, or more or less?
Let’s give N1ck an idea of what is possible internally and that should make decision easier than depending on votes

There are quite a few people willing to contribute which is great and a heartening prospect.
The problem lies in the fact that costs are not fixed - anyone who runs digital assets knows that, especially when the products/assets are a decade old and in severe need of upgrade.
Contributions are not guaranteed either. You might get it one year (awesome!) and then users drop off, or they have other priorities, like children, and families and pandemics, and external costs like contributing to a footy forum is not high on that priority list.

What I think is the most likely scenario is a combination of both/multiple options so as not to be solely reliant on one single revenue stream when there are growing expenses.

That is simple reality.

[whiskers3614]

Fair enough, but not sure advertisers would pay much for the current levels of traffic .

[Mr Magic]

I for one would be happy to pitch in $50-$60 per annum.
Who else would like to do similar, or more or less?
Let’s give N1ck an idea of what is possible internally and that should make decision easier than depending on votes

There are quite a few people willing to contribute which is great and a heartening prospect.
The problem lies in the fact that costs are not fixed - anyone who runs digital assets knows that, especially when the products/assets are a decade old and in severe need of upgrade.
Contributions are not guaranteed either. You might get it one year (awesome!) and then users drop off, or they have other priorities, like children, and families and pandemics, and external costs like contributing to a footy forum is not high on that priority list.

What I think is the most likely scenario is a combination of both/multiple options so as not to be solely reliant on one single revenue stream when there are growing expenses.

That is simple reality.

How about setting up a 'Trust Fund' to be drawn down by you (admin) whenever necessary?
Call it an 'insurance policy' for untoward expenses (or running costs).
Completely voluntary
No added benefits for contributing to it
All donations anonymous except to whoever is administering it.
We could set an arbitrary figure ($) that the minimum balance should be at and we could call for donations if the balance drops below that figure.

I'd hate to see ads on here (and I didn't cast a vote)

[shanegrambeau]

How about members could have an ad and a discount code placed at the bottom of their signature?

Would this work?

Surely, all of us have some kind of expertise, network or intellectual capital?


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[Vortex]

What’s the agenda?

No agenda. Simple yes or no question based on the content and context provided.
Not everything is a conspiracy, but yes, everything costs something.

Your question in the poll was loaded, an appropriate approach would have been to put options together for fund raising, you gave one option which could be construed as having an agenda, and/or you had already made up your mind on what you intend to do.

And so if it's been made quite clear to you that there are more than enough wiling donators to provide you with the funds then that's the way you should go unless you have an agenda to make money from site well in excess of the operating costs. As such there is no other reason to turn it into a commercial venture and jeopardise the unique position this board has on the AFL landscape.

Questions that have been asked of you by several posters including:

a) how do you intend to increase membership?

b) what are the operating costs, assuming you have put some costings together in a spreadsheet?

[Teflon]

What’s the agenda?

No agenda. Simple yes or no question based on the content and context provided.
Not everything is a conspiracy, but yes, everything costs something.

Your question in the poll was loaded, an appropriate approach would have been to put options together for fund raising, you gave one option which could be construed as having an agenda, and/or you had already made up your mind on what you intend to do.

And so if it's been made quite clear to you that there are more than enough wiling donators to provide you with the funds then that's the way you should go unless you have an agenda to make money from site well in excess of the operating costs. As such there is no other reason to turn it into a commercial venture and jeopardise the unique position this board has on the AFL landscape.

Questions that have been asked of you by several posters including:

a) how do you intend to increase membership?

b) what are the operating costs, assuming you have put some costings together in a spreadsheet?

N!ck doing his best geezus …you’re a windbag
N!ck if only I had a dollar for every time Saynta/Marty/Pav and co went whingeing to mods about me….I’d fund the joint for 20 years …
There’s an idea ….SS Swear Jar
?

[shanegrambeau]

The discussion shows what a cantankerous and sketchy proposition we would be to service a funded model.

On the other hand, who would advertise here?

[skeptic]

I like MM’s idea.

[n1ck]

Questions that have been asked of you by several posters including:

a) how do you intend to increase membership?

b) what are the operating costs, assuming you have put some costings together in a spreadsheet?

a) Redesign of the site, upgrade of site software allowing for SEO and digital search opportunities. Social media content and marketing opportunities. Programmatic advertising options and sponsorship of relevent platforms, programs and opportunities related to our St Kilda fan audience. More moderation, administration and community management across the site, allowing for a more inclusive and constructive conversation. Future conversations with the club itself and its people to generate more access opportunities for exclusive content. Do I need to go on?

b) how many times must I tell you the same thing? I have given current operating costs a number of times in this very thread

Whether you want to call it so or not, THIS IS A COMMERCIAL OPERATION. It costs to run and maintain and you can be absolutely sure it's going to cost ALOT more to update, upgrade and fix.

The problem is in the unknown. The last outages have cost upwards of US$300 to resolve. Previous issues have cost US$70-80 each time.

Right now basic running costs equate to approximately $1500 annually but as I have stated a number of times in the last few months, this forum's infrastructure has been patched and fixed and papered over so many times it is not sustainable. It needs ALOT of work to upgrade, update, resolve ALOT of things. Security. Privacy. Software. Hardware. Marketing. Design. Moderation.

To simply keep it alive I estimate approximately AUD$2000 per year. Maybe more depending on how many tech issues arise. To improve and upgrade and provide a better experience will cost exponentially more.

[shanegrambeau]

Well there it is, in plain site.
.n1ks respondse in part a contains,


1) Social media content and marketing opportunities.
2) Programmatic advertising options
3) sponsorship of relevent platforms,
4) programs and opportunities related to our St Kilda fan audience.

There it is.

We are going with it. So accept I would say.


Will people with no social media accounts be able to participate?

Easy now !!

[n1ck]

Well there it is, in plain site.
.n1ks respondse in part a contains,


1) Social media content and marketing opportunities.
2) Programmatic advertising options
3) sponsorship of relevent platforms,
4) programs and opportunities related to our St Kilda fan audience.

There it is.

We are going with it. So accept I would say.


Will people with no social media accounts be able to participate?

Easy now !!

what?
I was asked ways to increase usership of the forum - which is something I would like to do, said from the beginning a few months ago and think this place deserves and can achieve with a little bit of love and elbow grease.

none of these things "require" users to have a social media account to participate on the forum - social media is a vehicle to get more people on to the forum.

[Vortex]

Questions that have been asked of you by several posters including:

a) how do you intend to increase membership?

b) what are the operating costs, assuming you have put some costings together in a spreadsheet?

a) Redesign of the site, upgrade of site software allowing for SEO and digital search opportunities. Social media content and marketing opportunities. Programmatic advertising options and sponsorship of relevent platforms, programs and opportunities related to our St Kilda fan audience. More moderation, administration and community management across the site, allowing for a more inclusive and constructive conversation. Future conversations with the club itself and its people to generate more access opportunities for exclusive content. Do I need to go on?

b) how many times must I tell you the same thing? I have given current operating costs a number of times in this very thread

Whether you want to call it so or not, THIS IS A COMMERCIAL OPERATION. It costs to run and maintain and you can be absolutely sure it's going to cost ALOT more to update, upgrade and fix.

The problem is in the unknown. The last outages have cost upwards of US$300 to resolve. Previous issues have cost US$70-80 each time.

Right now basic running costs equate to approximately $1500 annually but as I have stated a number of times in the last few months, this forum's infrastructure has been patched and fixed and papered over so many times it is not sustainable. It needs ALOT of work to upgrade, update, resolve ALOT of things. Security. Privacy. Software. Hardware. Marketing. Design. Moderation.

To simply keep it alive I estimate approximately AUD$2000 per year. Maybe more depending on how many tech issues arise. To improve and upgrade and provide a better experience will cost exponentially more.

Not factual with regards to your understanding of what is a commercial entity but let’s not get wrapped around the axle on that point as it’s being made clear to you that there is a strong desire to have an add free site supported financially with donations.

As others have said, I like MMs idea, the amounts you are talking about will be easy to raise as they are relatively small amounts spread amongst the many posters willing to donate. Essentially the finance for operating costs isn’t an issue.


A question previously asked but I’m keen to get a response, what softwares solutions have you researched that aren’t add based.

[n1ck]

Not factual with regards to your understanding of what is a commercial entity but let’s not get wrapped around the axle on that point as it’s being made clear to you that there is a strong desire to have an add free site supported financially with donations.

As others have said, I like MMs idea, the amounts you are talking about will be easy to raise as they are relatively small amounts spread amongst the many posters willing to donate. Essentially the finance for operating costs isn’t an issue.


A question previously asked but I’m keen to get a response, what softwares solutions have you researched that aren’t add based.

It's actually very factual based on any measure of what 'commercial' means. This is a commercial product operated by a commercial entity. That is reality, but it is also besides the point.

None of the "software solutions" I have researched are "ad based." They are software and hosting platforms. Any or all of them can have advertising or not.
Let me throw this back at you by asking what level of expertise you have in digital assets, web content, online communities or digital marketing and/or advertising?
Given this is what I do for a living, it's what I've done for 15 years and digital sports content, community & media is an industry I have intimate knowledge in and of. It's the reason I am here trying to save this place.

What is your knowledge of these areas? Based on your level of questioning in this thread and clear lack of understanding of the commercial digital landscape I would hazard a guess as it is not high?

You say "strong desire to have an add [sic] free site" - sure, a strong desire by a vocal minority, whereas the rest have either shown support for or no strong feeling either way.
Digital communities are in large part ad-funded and ad-supported globally. It is a reality of the industry and the landscape in which we play and work.

Now, again, no decisions have been made, but as I stated earlier, my understanding of these things leads me to believe RIGHT NOW that the most likely way forward here is some combination of donation/contribution AND advertising or sponsorship or other types of revenue generating activity.

I don't want intrusive, offensive ads on every page or every post either and there are ways and there are ad strategies to generate revenue without having to be intrusive or offensive.

[Vortex]

Not factual with regards to your understanding of what is a commercial entity but let’s not get wrapped around the axle on that point as it’s being made clear to you that there is a strong desire to have an add free site supported financially with donations.

As others have said, I like MMs idea, the amounts you are talking about will be easy to raise as they are relatively small amounts spread amongst the many posters willing to donate. Essentially the finance for operating costs isn’t an issue.


A question previously asked but I’m keen to get a response, what softwares solutions have you researched that aren’t add based.

It's actually very factual based on any measure of what 'commercial' means. This is a commercial product operated by a commercial entity. That is reality, but it is also besides the point.

None of the "software solutions" I have researched are "ad based." They are software and hosting platforms. Any or all of them can have advertising or not.
Let me throw this back at you by asking what level of expertise you have in digital assets, web content, online communities or digital marketing and/or advertising?
Given this is what I do for a living, it's what I've done for 15 years and digital sports content, community & media is an industry I have intimate knowledge in and of. It's the reason I am here trying to save this place.

What is your knowledge of these areas? Based on your level of questioning in this thread and clear lack of understanding of the commercial digital landscape I would hazard a guess as it is not high?

You say "strong desire to have an add [sic] free site" - sure, a strong desire by a vocal minority, whereas the rest have either shown support for or no strong feeling either way.
Digital communities are in large part ad-funded and ad-supported globally. It is a reality of the industry and the landscape in which we play and work.

Now, again, no decisions have been made, but as I stated earlier, my understanding of these things leads me to believe RIGHT NOW that the most likely way forward here is some combination of donation/contribution AND advertising or sponsorship or other types of revenue generating activity.

I don't want intrusive, offensive ads on every page or every post either and there are ways and there are ad strategies to generate revenue without having to be intrusive or offensive.

That’s an impressive CV, thanks for sharing, understandably it gives you every confidence to claim exclusivity of knowledge and expertise on an anonymous forum, but we digress.

So I’m guessing you have already had your legal rep contact the AFL to bed down the revenue sharing and commercial agreements?

And just on this “vocal minority”, care to run another poll asking if members would prefer an add based site or add free site where funding is not an issue with a donation based funding model?

Framing the question that way is less loaded and removes the impression that the existence of the site is in jeopardy without an add based site.

[nostalgicsaint]

Based on how this conversation has gone it sounds to me more like the thinking around advertising isn't really based on operating costs. (Which imo should be relatively easy to cover and have been overstated)

It's more about the Dwindling membership base and traffic and the potential this domain name has in launching a more successful business/website that could sit behind it.

Based on that shift in my understanding I actually support the idea of leaning into advertising more not less however I do agree the framing has been disingenuous.

Fwiw happy to help if you do go down a relaunch/advertising approach.

[n1ck]

I've said all along that my goal was to grow the site and get it back to 2000s usership community levels because it offers a unique solution and conversation avenue to our fanbase.

Go back to the day Simon walked away and my posts from that time have ALWAYS stated that goal so spare me with the disingenuous claptrap. Theres no reframing or relaunching. Its upgrading, developing and growing our community here.

I didn't know at that stage just how broken the site was or what kind of issues were going to be under the hood. There was no forecast of a software update wreaking havoc with our taped up infrastructure or the continuous patching that was going to be required - or what a complete rebuild would look like.

I have no doubt that in an situation where the site is sustainable and able to basically run itself that a contribution model would be sufficient to cover basic operating costs but this isnt about 'basic operating costs.' This isnt a $5 wix blog with a $1.99 domain name selling bookmarks. It is complex and broken and needs development if we want it to be here in 12-24-48 months.

In my opinion contribution and donation is wonderful and generous and will go part of the way to achieving the goals of update, upgrade, secure and grow, however it wont get us all the way there. Likewise advertising. It will help generate a few dollars but not enough on its own so in my opinion the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle with a combination of two approaches working together.

[n1ck]

So I’m guessing you have already had your legal rep contact the AFL to bed down the revenue sharing and commercial agreements?

Do you even know what this means? The fact you even raised this shows me you actually have no idea what you're talking about.

I deal with the AFL every day. I deal with revshares and commercial agreements every day. Neither of which are applicable at any level in this scenario.

[The Fireman]

So I’m guessing you have already had your legal rep contact the AFL to bed down the revenue sharing and commercial agreements?

Do you even know what this means? The fact you even raised this shows me you actually have no idea what you're talking about.

I deal with the AFL every day. I deal with revshares and commercial agreements every day. Neither of which are applicable at any level in this scenario.

the rest of the forum has known this for awhile.
I would advise against getting into a protracted convo

[Vortex]

Deleted post

[Vortex]

So I’m guessing you have already had your legal rep contact the AFL to bed down the revenue sharing and commercial agreements?

Do you even know what this means? The fact you even raised this shows me you actually have no idea what you're talking about.

I deal with the AFL every day. I deal with revshares and commercial agreements every day. Neither of which are applicable at any level in this scenario.

So I can start a commercial entity and start making money off the AFLs back and they won’t mind….cool.

And it would seem they don’t mind their employees and contractors making some coin on the side too, even cooler.

What did you think about re running the poll with a question that isn’t loaded towards only supporting the profit making model?

[n1ck]

So I’m guessing you have already had your legal rep contact the AFL to bed down the revenue sharing and commercial agreements?

Do you even know what this means? The fact you even raised this shows me you actually have no idea what you're talking about.

I deal with the AFL every day. I deal with revshares and commercial agreements every day. Neither of which are applicable at any level in this scenario.

So I can start a commercial entity and start making money off the AFLs back and they won’t mind….cool.

And it would seem they don’t mind their employees and contractors making some coin on the side too, even cooler.

What did you think about re running the poll with a question that isn’t loaded towards only supporting the profit making model?

You really are clueless. I am disengaging now.