Supporters need perspective

[older saint]

Firstly let me say I HATE losing with a passion. I am also somewhat a realist and had us at best scraping into the 8 and more likely around 12th at pre-season. Therefore by that measure at this point in time we are in front of where I thought we would be. Now if you had us top 6 pre season , then by all means rant with disappointment as many have, but otherwise take a breath, check where we have come from, see what history tells us, and recognise we actually maybe in front of the curve.

Second half was very disappointing yesterday, and it will be pulled apart i am sure but those deficiencies which lead to the result are not new to anyone who has been watching for a while - Mid Field Depth and variety of player along with class ball users has been a want for some time now.
Ripping coaches and players after the game here really seems more about frustrations and existing bias against with RL or players - as reality is Steele our captain and one of our best players was awful yesterday but haven't read his name in the baggings, but usual suspects such as Gresham, Byrnes, Cordy, etc pop up. Some may be justified but you cant ignore others

Perspective:
We had 8 players in the 23 that have yet to play 50 AFL games - including 2 first year players and 3 second year players.
Add to that King 68 games, Clark 83 both coming off long term injuries.
Ross, Membrey, Howard - all automatic best 22 players out representing 472 games experience - replaced with Caminiti, Cordy, Byrnes (if you like) 192 (Cordy 128 of those who is there as a back up).
Second level mids not there include Jones, Billings, McKenzie.

Yes Carlton has Cerra, Walsh & McKay out but they are the form team of the comp and at half time we had their measure.

Another point Beveridge 2015 was the last coach (I believe) to take over a team and make finals year 1 having missed the year before, so it takes time and talent.

I guess my point is we still control our destiny to make the 8 - beat Richmond and Geelong we will play finals, which is well beyond expectations for most before the season started. This is a marathon not a sprint and the list is far from a finished product, but considering the band aid forward line for most of the season , new game plan and new coaches so far big pass mark from me regardless of the next 3 weeks - that said i hate losing so lets start by smashing Richmond.

[Trev from the Bush]

Points well made and I agree with your well-considered opinion.

[AuckSaint]

Really good points made by OS about the setup of the team, it's youth and the injuries we've had. I think a lot of us (myself included) almost believed in what happened in those first half dozen rounds might be sustainable all year. Reality is it didn't and the youth, injuries and inadequate depth of our squad came back and bit us.

However, with one or two exceptions (Adelaide and 1st Hawks game) we've fought till the end rather than cave in like we did in previous years. RTB has instilled some more backbone to the team. We may make the eight, more likely not, but we haven't had insipid losses - Blues have midfield depth to burn and they eventually rolled us after a first half of great encouragement. I think the off season draft/recruitment and a further off season on RTB and team will define more the development and potential of the team. The most exciting thing is another year of development and experience to our recent draft picks and younger recruits. Then we should make judgements....

[saynta]

Firstly let me say I HATE losing with a passion. I am also somewhat a realist and had us at best scraping into the 8 and more likely around 12th at pre-season. Therefore by that measure at this point in time we are in front of where I thought we would be. Now if you had us top 6 pre season , then by all means rant with disappointment as many have, but otherwise take a breath, check where we have come from, see what history tells us, and recognise we actually maybe in front of the curve.

Second half was very disappointing yesterday, and it will be pulled apart i am sure but those deficiencies which lead to the result are not new to anyone who has been watching for a while - Mid Field Depth and variety of player along with class ball users has been a want for some time now.
Ripping coaches and players after the game here really seems more about frustrations and existing bias against with RL or players - as reality is Steele our captain and one of our best players was awful yesterday but haven't read his name in the baggings, but usual suspects such as Gresham, Byrnes, Cordy, etc pop up. Some may be justified but you cant ignore others

Perspective:
We had 8 players in the 23 that have yet to play 50 AFL games - including 2 first year players and 3 second year players.
Add to that King 68 games, Clark 83 both coming off long term injuries.
Ross, Membrey, Howard - all automatic best 22 players out representing 472 games experience - replaced with Caminiti, Cordy, Byrnes (if you like) 192 (Cordy 128 of those who is there as a back up).
Second level mids not there include Jones, Billings, McKenzie.

Yes Carlton has Cerra, Walsh & McKay out but they are the form team of the comp and at half time we had their measure.

Another point Beveridge 2015 was the last coach (I believe) to take over a team and make finals year 1 having missed the year before, so it takes time and talent.

I guess my point is we still control our destiny to make the 8 - beat Richmond and Geelong we will play finals, which is well beyond expectations for most before the season started. This is a marathon not a sprint and the list is far from a finished product, but considering the band aid forward line for most of the season , new game plan and new coaches so far big pass mark from me regardless of the next 3 weeks - that said i hate losing so lets start by smashing Richmond.

Yeah would be nice to smash Richmond but so far we are no better off than we were last year under Ratts.

I expected more this year under the master coach seeing we just missed the finals last year because we sold a game to be played in the wet season in f****** banana bending country.

Sure , we had injuries but so does every other team.

Sixth wasn't unreasonable IMHFO. However I didn't factor in the the lack of selection integrity and the playing of favorites that was so obvious last time around.

[Yorkeys]

We have perspective in bucket loads.
We know what's going on warts and all, list limitations, first year coach, coaching panel finding its rhythm, no on field leadership, forwards that run into not away from each other, mids that drop eggs by the dozen when shopping (oops a fumble) etc, et al.
And we still support the club unconditionally.
And by whatever low bar you perspect from, yesterday's last quarter was diabolically hopeless. Not even a sausage in a do or die contest. That's none.
Rationalising crap by invoking perspective. What's that warm stream on our legs.
Call it out, don't enable by just shrugging. Make Bassett and Ross squirm.

[saynta]

We have perspective in bucket loads.
We know what's going on warts and all, list limitations, first year coach, coaching panel finding its rhythm, no on field leadership, forwards that run into not away from each other, mids that drop eggs by the dozen when shopping (oops a fumble) etc, et al.
And we still support the club unconditionally.
And by whatever low bar you perspect from, yesterday's last quarter was diabolically hopeless. Not even a sausage in a do or die contest. That's none.
Rationalising crap by invoking perspective. What's that warm stream on our legs.
Call it out, don't enable by just shrugging. Make Bassett and Ross squirm.

Yep, they keep pissing on us and tell us it's raining

Give me a break ffs.. One goal in a half of f****** football would see the coach sacked at a half way decent club.

[happy feet]

Yeah, I get what the OP is saying.

I’ll give you my perspective. I have just turned 60 and am sick of waiting for our next premiership.

I could bang on about recruitment stuff ups, coach changes, etc but that’s been done to death. I want to see a premiership before my death.

[The Fireman]

Yeah, I get what the OP is saying.

I’ll give you my perspective. I have just turned 60 and am sick of waiting for our next premiership.

I could bang on about recruitment stuff ups, coach changes, etc but that’s been done to death. I want to see a premiership before my death.

I’m older than you and agree with you emphatically

[nostalgicsaint]

You can't reason with morons unfortunately.

A well considered post with great points disregarded with

"I want more and I want it now"

As though more was promised.

In fact the club foreshadowed us going backwards this year not forward as part of a necessary change.

From here the morons will quote year of exploration as though our youth haven't been given more games than they may have deserved if we were contending. Several of them have been backed in at selection and on game day as part.of their learning experience but because Bytel (the modern equivalent to rix rox rucks) isn't selected apparently that isn't enough.

Never mind the contradicting arguments- it must be Lyons fault

[saynta]

Yeah, I get what the OP is saying.

I’ll give you my perspective. I have just turned 60 and am sick of waiting for our next premiership.

I could bang on about recruitment stuff ups, coach changes, etc but that’s been done to death. I want to see a premiership before my death.

I’m older than you and agree with you emphatically

plus one

[Scollop]

You can't reason with morons unfortunately.

A well considered post with great points disregarded with

"I want more and I want it now"

As though more was promised.

In fact the club foreshadowed us going backwards this year not forward as part of a necessary change.

From here the morons will quote year of exploration as though our youth haven't been given more games than they may have deserved if we were contending. Several of them have been backed in at selection and on game day as part.of their learning experience but because Bytel (the modern equivalent to rix rox rucks) isn't selected apparently that isn't enough.

Never mind the contradicting arguments- it must be Lyons fault

I agree with most of your post

I also agree with most of the points raised by all posters in this thread, however...

A bloke calling other people morons for asking questions...just shows you are happy go lucky cult follower who needs a shepherd to guide you. Keep drinking the kool-aid

[cwrcyn]

It comes down to expectations. I had none coming into 2023.

Reality is reality. We currently have two players in our team that have performed at the elite level....... Sinclair and Wilkie. Just below them is Marshall.

Wood, Battle, Webster, Crouch, Butler and Higgins have all been solid. Hill has mostly been good, but Steele has been below par, mainly due to injuries. Ross started the season well, but after round 6 his form deserted him (carrying an injury?). Howard has been both good and bad, but mostly good. Gresham has been so-so, and Clark has had an another injury interrupted pre-season followed by a mid season injury.

The rest have been kids and players coming off long lay-offs. It's not exactly a recipe for a hugely successful season.

For those frothing at the mouth over our performance this season, I would ask you to look closely at the playing list and compare it to other teams in the top 8. You'll notice that we're a little bit short. Throw in a whole bunch of injuries to key players and then asking kids to hold up the key forward posts nearly all season, I would argue that given all those things to consider, a 12 win season would be a positive result, which is where we're likely heading.

Wishing and hoping for us to be a top four team is just unrealistic given the quality of our list and the injury toll. We need more talent. More class, more speed, more ball winning ability around the stoppages.

We are also not a disaster, as some people want to put forward. We are a pretty solid mid tier team with two glaring midfield holes that need to be filled with young energetic talent.

Once those holes are filled, we can then allow ourselves to have some expectations.

[Teflon]

You can't reason with morons unfortunately.

A well considered post with great points disregarded with

"I want more and I want it now"

As though more was promised.

In fact the club foreshadowed us going backwards this year not forward as part of a necessary change.

From here the morons will quote year of exploration as though our youth haven't been given more games than they may have deserved if we were contending. Several of them have been backed in at selection and on game day as part.of their learning experience but because Bytel (the modern equivalent to rix rox rucks) isn't selected apparently that isn't enough.

Never mind the contradicting arguments- it must be Lyons fault

Superb thread
This is a ripping post
You can’t debate morons it’s true
And yep club said right from get go we may go back to go forwards…
I’m ok with that as long as they own it
No more topping up
No more “we are in the window “ pipe dream garbage
This draft sadly doesn’t have the mids
Get the talent you can target mids on the cusp at other clubs (Flanders) who instantly make us better

[nostalgicsaint]

You can't reason with morons unfortunately.

A well considered post with great points disregarded with

"I want more and I want it now"

As though more was promised.

In fact the club foreshadowed us going backwards this year not forward as part of a necessary change.

From here the morons will quote year of exploration as though our youth haven't been given more games than they may have deserved if we were contending. Several of them have been backed in at selection and on game day as part.of their learning experience but because Bytel (the modern equivalent to rix rox rucks) isn't selected apparently that isn't enough.

Never mind the contradicting arguments- it must be Lyons fault

I agree with most of your post

I also agree with most of the points raised by all posters in this thread, however...

A bloke calling other people morons for asking questions...just shows you are happy go lucky cult follower who needs a shepherd to guide you. Keep drinking the kool-aid

I did try and reason with you first.

For weeks if not months.

My new approach finally has you agreeing.

Ergo it worked.

See the signature for further clarification.

[Scollop]

I agreed that you're nuts and a bit giddy from the kool-aid...and you congratulated yourself for that

[nostalgicsaint]

Best start another thread or hijack another with the same banal talk track potatoes. It's your MO.

Lots of love
Kool aid guy

[Scollop]

Here's the thing

He has his MO. He has a certain game style we have all seen it over the years (win games by kicking 9 goals and restrict your opposition to kicking 7) and I just don't enjoy watching that sort of footy

I don't think most footy fans do. I mean... what's he done apart from inherit 2 finals capable teams. Two teams with a myriad of All Australians and 2 teams who'd already played off in prelims BEFORE he arrived

That's not hate. It's just history. It's fact

Here's what upsets the Ross Lyon devotees

I just don't think he's as good as YOU think he is.

I hope I'm wrong. Happy to put up with 9 goal games if we win but jfc...the game seems to be headed in a different way

[Teflon]

Here's the thing

He has his MO. He has a certain game style we have all seen it over the years (win games by kicking 9 goals and restrict your opposition to kicking 7) and I just don't enjoy watching that sort of footy

I don't think most footy fans do. I mean... what's he done apart from inherit 2 finals capable teams. Two teams with a myriad of All Australians and 2 teams who'd already played off in prelims BEFORE he arrived

That's not hate. It's just history. It's fact

Here's what upsets the Ross Lyon devotees

I just don't think he's as good as YOU think he is.

I hope I'm wrong. Happy to put up with 9 goal games if we win but jfc...the game seems to be headed in a different way

Vortex ….is that you??

[Scollop]

That's it. Keep deflecting

[Teflon]

That's it. Keep deflecting

Moved on from Sharman hating??

[Scollop]

That's it. Keep deflecting

Moved on from Sharman hating??

Have you lost the plot?

Do you think everyone you reply to or who disagrees with you is the same person?

Are you ok?

[Teflon]

That's it. Keep deflecting

Moved on from Sharman hating??

Have you lost the plot?

Do you think everyone you reply to or who disagrees with you is the same person?

Are you ok?

Ironically….yes ….I think you Vort your little mates …actually…could be 1 person …
The consistency in hate gives it away

[Scollop]

Do you want me to make the call and book you in or are you going to do it yourself?

Teffers... I'm concerned for you

4 weeks should do it. And lose your ss log in. Maybe it's not going to be a happy place here after round 24

[TheGreatZacsby]

Do you want me to make the call and book you in or are you going to do it yourself?

Teffers... I'm concerned for you

4 weeks should do it. And lose your ss log in. Maybe it's not going to be a happy place here after round 24

Scollop why do you have to be such a dick about it? Teflon posts the truth.

I don’t understand why you all have such a hate for Ross LYON? The standards have improved heaps in the club.

[Teflon]

Do you want me to make the call and book you in or are you going to do it yourself?

Teffers... I'm concerned for you

4 weeks should do it. And lose your ss log in. Maybe it's not going to be a happy place here after round 24

Scollop why do you have to be such a dick about it? Teflon posts the truth.

I don’t understand why you all have such a hate for Ross LYON? The standards have improved heaps in the club.

It’s kinda funny ….ole Scollop has a weird hate fetish for Lyon ..and he’s checking if I’m ok ? Lol
This place …is the epitome of the lunatics have overtaken the asylum