Hawks game V Carlton game planning

[Scollop]

We had a magic 9 goal first quarter against the Hawks

We are capable

Our players are capable

What was the difference in our planning for the Hawthorn game as opposed to the Carlton game?

I understand you plan differently to shut down the opposition's strengths, however I think maybe you can get too defensive at times.

In the lead up to the Hawthorn game, the players were allowed a lot more freedom to express themselves and play the game to score rather than to defend the opposition from scoring. They spoke about it.

Sometimes your focus might be too heavily weighted towards restricting the opposition instead of trying to play to your absolute very best level.

When you have half a dozen players in the team just there to act as stoppers, how does that inspire creativity and how does that make the game an attractive spectacle for your supporters?

[Teflon]

FFS
We lead the FORM side in the comp by nearly 5 goals at half time
What was wrong with the planning then??????
Do you think the coach changed “the plan” that was working mid game ?
Are you really that stupid?
Stop making excuses for inept footballers who’ve been getta free ride for a decade
Their day of reckoning is coming

[Scollop]

FFS
We lead the FORM side in the comp by nearly 5 goals at half time
What was wrong with the planning then??????
Do you think the coach changed “the plan” that was working mid game ?
Are you really that stupid?
Stop making excuses for inept footballers who’ve been getta free ride for a decade
Their day of reckoning is coming

It's ok mate. Settle. This thread isn't for you

It's for people who want to discuss the issues raised

"Their day of reckoning is coming"

What are you doing? Getting rid of half the squad are you including Steele and Crouch

[Teflon]

FFS
We lead the FORM side in the comp by nearly 5 goals at half time
What was wrong with the planning then??????
Do you think the coach changed “the plan” that was working mid game ?
Are you really that stupid?
Stop making excuses for inept footballers who’ve been getta free ride for a decade
Their day of reckoning is coming

It's ok mate. Settle. This thread isn't for you

It's for people who want to discuss the issues raised

You raised nothing buddy
Your post says nothing except
“What changed “
I’ll give you a clue….go watch Lyon presser ….he actually addressed the coaching group’s surprise after HT in the player’s performance and why that changed….cause not much did was his view…
So if the coaches didn’t see that poor effort coming , didn’t change “the plan” ….what changed do you think ????
You’re the systems man tell us all ?

[Scollop]

I'm not your buddy

[Teflon]

I'm not your buddy

I forgot your Sayntas buddy…lucky you
You can catch up on the weekend and just spew Lyon hate !!

[Scollop]

Keep drinking. It's refreshing stuff that kool-aid

[Teflon]

Keep drinking. It's refreshing stuff that kool-aid

You on “the bitters” again??

[Scollop]

Back to the topic. I know you want to hijack every thread and shut down any thoughts but why do you see the thread as criticism of Ross Lyon?

It's a topic for open discussion and all you want to do is shut it down.

Why is any questions regarding game plan or preparation or team selection just simply branded as negativity towards the coach. Maybe it's Lenny or Harves or a combination or whatever.

...Why did the players have an enjoyable win and play attractive footy up until the final siren one week and die in the arse the next week?

[Teflon]

Back to the topic. I know you want to hijack every thread and shut down any thoughts but why do you see the thread as criticism of Ross Lyon?

It's a topic for open discussion and all you want to do is shut it down.

Why is any questions regarding game plan or preparation or team selection just simply branded as negativity towards the coach. Maybe it's Lenny or Harves or a combination or whatever.

...Why did the players have an enjoyable win and play attractive footy up until the final siren one week and die in the arse the next week?

I’m not arguing to protect the cia h cause of some weird Lyon love
I simply don’t think the answer to your question is coaching
Let me be clear - Ratten suffered this too (he still had to go for other reasons) but cast your mind back to last year…
A good quarter here….a half there…..how many genuine 4 qtr games did we put up??? 1 against Hawks.
This same core group of senior players are doing it again
Enough.
They ain’t up to it
Lyon knows it ….he’s being as diplomat as he can be …suspect behind closed doors sone egos been bruised

[Scollop]

"They ain't up to it
"Lyon knows it"

That's great. Just what every Saints fan wants to hear. Bag your playing group and keep turning them over until you suddenly find the magic formula for a list of 30 finals capable players

Does he think he's going to stumble across a DeLorean and head back to 2007 and then if that doesn't work... Go West and back to the future and 2012? He should have gone for Goodwin's job or Fagan's

Back to the topic. Ross Lyon is one person at the club. He's a very important person but, there are other important off field personnel that help prepare the players

What was the theme and the planning for the game against Hawthorn as opposed to the way they approached the Carlton game


And please...
I don't want to hear what the score was at half time

[nostalgicsaint]

Potatoes.

You are as obsessed with Ross Lyon as anyone I've ever seen.

Plenty of people on here aren't big fans but they're prepared to give him and his team some time.

You're not Mark Harvey are you?
Or Ratten?

Whatever the cause of your unblinkered hatred of the man perhaps it's time to let it go. If you can I might stop calling you my favourite side dish too.

[Scollop]

I haven't said sack him or he is hopeless or he sucks as a coach. Read my posts from January this year onwards.

Teflon comes in here making up stuff to shut down anything related to criticism of the coaching. It's as if he takes it personally

I don't hate Lyon

I just don't rate him as highly as you or others.

I'll give you a tip though...I'll still be supporting StKilda FC when he's long gone

[nostalgicsaint]

I'm not even sure I rate him that highly.

But I do think his body of work means he deserves at least 2 full off seasons to judge his efficacy in the current role. As I do with anyone else.

[Scollop]

I'm not even sure I rate him that highly.

But I do think his body of work means he deserves at least 2 full off seasons to judge his efficacy in the current role. As I do with anyone else.

Hey I agree. I'll give him 4 years

[The_Dud]

I think the brains in the coaches box AND the 22 picked each week both have equal part to play in the disaster that has been our season post round 6.

Plenty of improvement needed across the board.

[Teflon]

Thread closed due to lack of substance

[Devilhead]

It's a mental thing with the players and leadership

Early on in the season they played with verve and a bit of dare like they had nothing to lose .... not so much now

I seriously think that they don't believe they are good enough .... rather than having a full game hunter mentality they flip to becoming the hunted which allows teams back into the contest

I said in another thread you always see players say .... We know they were going to come back at us ..... this is such a loser defeatist mentality ...... if you know it then going fkn harder and don't give them a sniff ...... break them again.

Maybe easier said than done but we know this team can run out games strongly ..... so why the hopeless capitulation yesterday after we completely dominated the game and had them on toast?

It's a mental thing .... its a leadership thing .... its all for one and one for all team thing ..... it needs to be sorted or else we will sit in no man's land for another decade.

[Teflon]

Thread re-opened due to badly needed injection of substance

[Devilhead]

Even Hawks came back at us after being 40pts up ... they got within 9pts or thereabouts

Where is our killer instinct to close out games and not let teams back into the contest?

You look at Carltons team on paper that we beat earlier in the year compared to the one yesterday and also our line up for both games and we should be winning yesterday by 50+ pts

I would nearly consider yesterday to be our worst loss of the year ..... how can a team go from completely and utterly dominating a team to be completely and utterly dominated

Its all up stairs mental and we have been mentally shite for for far too long .... something needs to be done

[Teflon]

Even Hawks came back at us after being 40pts up ... they got within 9pts or thereabouts

Where is our killer instinct to close out games and not let teams back into the contest?

You look at Carltons team on paper that we beat earlier in the year compared to the one yesterday and also our line up for both games and we should be winning yesterday by 50+ pts

I would nearly consider yesterday to be our worst loss of the year ..... how can a team go from completely and utterly dominating a team to be completely and utterly dominated

Its all up stairs mental and we have been mentally shite for for far too long .... something needs to be done

It’s coming

[B.M]

So why did the game change

Why did Carlton get on top

If we were good enough to lead at half time - why weren’t we good enough to win?

I’d prefer it if we were outplayed by a better team over 4 quarters

Not be 4 goals up and lose by 4

That’s an 8 goal swing in a half

We kicked 1 goal after HT and could not
1/win the ball at stoppage
2/if we won it back d50 we couldn’t transition

Any dare and flow just evaporated- it’s like we purposely went slow to gain some control but it actually stopped any possible scoring

[nobhead]

Thread re-opened due to badly needed injection of substance

Haha to answer the question i think the planning was the same. The signs of a capitulation were there last week too.hawks came back hard in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs,but were coming from a bigger deficet and our players did go back into their shells started playing safe trying to protect the lead ,the only difference this game was we were playing a much more mature and skilled team that are in form.and as stated in another post our so called leaders are mentally weak and panic under pressure ,they are the ones that let us down AGAIN!

[Teflon]

Thread re-opened due to badly needed injection of substance

Haha to answer the question i think the planning was the same. The signs of a capitulation were there last week too.hawks came back hard in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs,but were coming from a bigger deficet and our players did go back into their shells started playing safe trying to protect the lead ,the only difference this game was we were playing a much more mature and skilled team that are in form.and as stated in another post our so called leaders are mentally weak and panic under pressure ,they are the ones that let us down AGAIN!

Stop making sense !! It’s not what this thread wants to hear!!
Signs were there all last year too
Mentally fragile senior group not up to it
Some don’t like hearing that truth but it won’t change it

[Saintmatt]

FFS ppl on here make this so complicated. Nothing at all changed at half time in the coaches box. A shite missed free kick cost us momentum going into half time with a 5 goal lead. Carlton were dead and buried at that point.

During that first half - the only coaching move that I could discernibly notice was Jack Steele hard marking Cripps (and largely sacrificing his game in the process). He did a good job of that. That's it. We were not pushing an extra up to the stoppages from half back / half forward; the wings (Hill / Wood) were maintaining their width and playing box to box. That's it. At that stage, Crouch had bought his own Sherrin and had 22 disposals.

After half time? Same from the coaches box. The difference? The main thing was that they stopped fumbling everything; Cripps slowly got on top as did Hewitt/ Docherty - they won stoppages and that let the likes of Acres to get off the chain and run rampant.

I like the idea of Lyon and think he'll be ok for us in time. But he can't really polish this turd of a list. He simply cannot help it if Steele and Crouch had zero touches in the last quarter. That's on those Senior players. They weren't on the bench; they attended every centre bounce - ample opportunity to impact the result.

I really just think that our group of players got beaten by a more talented group of players. Voss didn't do anything either FWIW. Cripps > Steele; DeKoning as 2nd ruck > Hammer; Marshall = Pittonet.

My abiding thought walking out of the ground was that it was mainly our kids that had done the damage for us this year and collectively, that was probably their quietest game. NAS, Owens, Windy, Byrnes, Phillipou, Cammo , Sharman were all outpointed by their direct opponents.

The indictment is that the Senior players should have stood up and simply didn't. You can't leave it to the kids all the time and that's not necessarily the coach's direct fault