My parting words, RTB is a myth!

[The G Train Legacy]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys

Yeah ... my whipping boy is usually a Brad or a Ross (rtb )

We all saw what was coming. Carlton regained the momentum prior to the 3 quarter time siren.

What did the coach do to stop that momentum?

We were still in front but we weren't scoring. What did Ross do to help the team score goals?

Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's fair to say 'nothing wrong' when we got so comprehensively smashed in so many areas in the second half

Absolute dross as usual in your anti Lyon rubbish
Game was lost by a pathetic midfield effort in second half and last qtr
Steele - 0 possession
Crouch - 1 possession
Clark - 0 possession
2/3rds of your midfield shiits the bed and it’s bad coaching???
Absolute muppet stuff
What did the coach do????
Ran Owens through , ran Sinclair, tried Windhager …it’s up to senior players to step up and lead on field when challenged
This marshmallow crew have done this for 5 years
Soon as Gresham goes the better btw

Btw, I just want to correct you before I make a comment on the coaching

Steele and Crouch both had zero possessions in the last quarter. Clark had 1.

Anyone who isn't a Ross Lyon devotee would look at the disposal count of these 3 guys you mentioned and wouldn't simply say they are marshmallows or soft. You have to ask why in the context of the match and the way they're asked to play

Is Steele soft? Is Crouch soft? They're certainly not young and they're not considered as poor endurance runners.

Anyhow...firstly...instead of calling me a Muppet, how about looking at things without always being stubborn. Even the best coaches learn and grow from their mistakes. People who are neutral see what we dished up and understand it's a systematic issue when several of your mids are cooked in the last quarter.

I'm sure you'll be reading about it in the papers and On the Couch with the FoxFooty crew

Have we seen this pattern of low scores in the past with R Lyon coached teams? And ..most importantly...was there a pattern of his side's mids running out of gas in last quarters?

Rossy set the team up quite nicely, Curnow was nullified, Saad was nullified and our midfield belted up the Carlton midfield in the first half. Our first half was the best footy we've played all season or at least since the Collingwood game. Yet when Carlton came, as expected, our mids didn't stand up, simple as that. Nothing to do with coaching.

[The G Train Legacy]

Voss clearly out coached RTB after half time

bulls***. Voss didn't do a thing, their midfield just bashed ours in the second half and ours meekly surrendered.

[The Fireman]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys

Yeah ... my whipping boy is usually a Brad or a Ross (rtb )

We all saw what was coming. Carlton regained the momentum prior to the 3 quarter time siren.

What did the coach do to stop that momentum?

We were still in front but we weren't scoring. What did Ross do to help the team score goals?

Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's fair to say 'nothing wrong' when we got so comprehensively smashed in so many areas in the second half

Absolute dross as usual in your anti Lyon rubbish
Game was lost by a pathetic midfield effort in second half and last qtr
Steele - 0 possession
Crouch - 1 possession
Clark - 0 possession
2/3rds of your midfield shiits the bed and it’s bad coaching???
Absolute muppet stuff
What did the coach do????
Ran Owens through , ran Sinclair, tried Windhager …it’s up to senior players to step up and lead on field when challenged
This marshmallow crew have done this for 5 years
Soon as Gresham goes the better btw

Btw, I just want to correct you before I make a comment on the coaching

Steele and Crouch both had zero possessions in the last quarter. Clark had 1.

Anyone who isn't a Ross Lyon devotee would look at the disposal count of these 3 guys you mentioned and wouldn't simply say they are marshmallows or soft. You have to ask why in the context of the match and the way they're asked to play

Is Steele soft? Is Crouch soft? They're certainly not young and they're not considered as poor endurance runners.

Anyhow...firstly...instead of calling me a Muppet, how about looking at things without always being stubborn. Even the best coaches learn and grow from their mistakes. People who are neutral see what we dished up and understand it's a systematic issue when several of your mids are cooked in the last quarter.

I'm sure you'll be reading about it in the papers and On the Couch with the FoxFooty crew

Have we seen this pattern of low scores in the past with R Lyon coached teams? And ..most importantly...was there a pattern of his side's mids running out of gas in last quarters?

Rossy set the team up quite nicely, Curnow was nullified, Saad was nullified and our midfield belted up the Carlton midfield in the first half. Our first half was the best footy we've played all season or at least since the Collingwood game. Yet when Carlton came, as expected, our mids didn't stand up, simple as that. Nothing to do with coaching.

this.

[samoht]

We're giving coaches too much importance.
There's form lines, niggles/injury clouds, match-ups, momentum swings, purple patches (Carlton is having one at the moment).
Coaches are left just as dumbfounded as we are.

There are no mythical coaches or magic formulas - it's AFL coach vs AFL coach. None are backyard coaches.
I mean, we have a system/game plan where opposition half backs are allowed to get 43 possessions, and their career-best numbers, if we're going to be objective and brutally honest.

We need to start recruiting and drafting the best available players - and what our team needs - end of story.'

We should stop wasting energy defending or talking up coaches.

[shanegrambeau]

I think he’s done a good job.

Team is reasonably organized.

Because of the ‘Ross hype’ he has ridiculous cult like status that is easily shot down.

Easy to forget that we played some great quarters.

With these babies in the side we can’t shouldn’t expect too much.

I think we are done for this year, and next year might not necessarily be fantastic, but upside is still huge.

Totally under siege yesterday and Webster and Wilkie were mighty.

We desperately need a ruckman IMO.

[Teflon]

Looking at some of the centre bounces, and stoppages around the ground, I really thought that our setups or structures were all wrong- players standing where they had no hope of getting a loose ball, no players outside on a spread to receive, too many standing close together and losing their direct opponents. Lyon, Hayes and Harvs have work to do, it's not all down to the players.

I think that’s fair but I think this is where on field leaders need to kick in
I can’t imagine Lenny or Ross tells them all to stand together ???
Outside run is a major midfield issue
I like Clarke but once the ball is outside he’s out of the game
Crouch Ross Steele all same
I honestly think had we managed to break even in that midfield contest like 1st half then we win
That said, Carlton’s midfield talent (even missing Walsh/Cerra) embarrasses us
Can’t make a silk purse…

So, really, that has been our problem all along - lack of talent, including getting the team balance right, in terms of outside run, etc...
It all comes down to the cattle -who you've recruited - and not the coaches.
So, shouldn't we stop adulating or blaming coaches? Isn't it about time?
As I mentioned, RL is still getting a lot wrong, IMHO, in any case.
But in the big scheme of things, a coach is nowhere near as important as the recruiter.
If a club keeps turning over coaches, you can bet something else is really going wrong.

Without going round this philosophical mole hill again
I don’t think I’ve read anything on this site ever suggesting a good coach alone will win you a flag
I think all know a hefty portion of that success criteria is talent
That said, I am far more comfortable that we have a much better system in place than last year which was all run n gun no defence
Are we perfect? No
Has Lyon AND his coaching group git work to do? Ofcourse
But what they have done (by design or bad luck) is pumped games into kids they believe have the talent to take us forward
Our first half yesterday and efforts against an in-form Hawks (who just rolled ladder leaders Pies) was as good a footy we have played this year.
So I think our coaches know how they want us to play
I think our execution is up and down and that’s talent imo
Last week - Gresham looked good
Yesterday????? Back to cr@p
Last week - Steele stood up
Yesterday??? 11 touches …in a must win game????
You can dream about best structures all day long…as Lyon said it’s pretty simple….don’t get your hands on the ball you’ll chase tail all day…second half we did (thank god Crouch git off chain first half…they sat on him after that)
What’s really scary ??????
1. We have little to offer of value at Trade
2. This is NOT a strong mids draft …we need kids..
and as a Carlton mate at the game said to me :
“Why did your lot give away this Acres kid….he’s been awesome…good size…”
I said
“Oh cause we are in the window so grabbed Hill at 900k a year”
He laughed ….by the way I think Dockers also took Serong with our Hill pick….imagine that in our midfield now…
Point is: we are and will for a little while pay for dumb past mistakes.

[Sanctorum]

I think he’s done a good job.

Team is reasonably organized.

Because of the ‘Ross hype’ he has ridiculous cult like status that is easily shot down.

Easy to forget that we played some great quarters.

With these babies in the side we can’t shouldn’t expect too much.

I think we are done for this year, and next year might not necessarily be fantastic, but upside is still huge.

Totally under siege yesterday and Webster and Wilkie were mighty.

We desperately need a ruckman IMO.

I'm with you Shane, there are supporters out there who are so fixated on their hatred of Ross Lyon that they lose all sense of objective analysis when the side goes down.

Naturally we expected St Kilda to win when they had a good lead at half time and were known to play well in the final quarter.

But to attribute the major turnaround after half time to bad coaching by Lyon ignores the reality of what actually happened on field. St Kilda's midfield simply went MIA and that in my view was largely due to chronically weak on field leadersip - an issue that has bedevilled this team in the past two years.

Vortex correctly pointed out that Jack Steele, for as much as we admire the way he plays, is not a natural born leader of men. I can't imagine other AFL skippers such as Pendlebury, Gawn, Bontempelli etc standing by idly when players fail to take up positions at stoppages, which happened a lot in the second half yesterday. All the more crucial when you look at how many inexperienced kids are in the team.

Call me an aplogist for Ross Lyon if you wish, but he is well known this year for relying on his highly qualified assistants for game day strategies and far from 'The Boss' that he may have been in the past.

I am supremely confident that the club will be totally focussed on improving its midfield stocks in the off season and that in Lyon's second year this team will be on the rise.

Spewing invective at Lyon might make people feel good, but just remember that his current tenure has another 3 years to run, wishing him away ain't gonna happen!

[saynta]

I think he’s done a good job.

Team is reasonably organized.

Because of the ‘Ross hype’ he has ridiculous cult like status that is easily shot down.

Easy to forget that we played some great quarters.

With these babies in the side we can’t shouldn’t expect too much.

I think we are done for this year, and next year might not necessarily be fantastic, but upside is still huge.

Totally under siege yesterday and Webster and Wilkie were mighty.

We desperately need a ruckman IMO.

I'm with you Shane, there are supporters out there who are so fixated on their hatred of Ross Lyon that they lose all sense of objective analysis when the side goes down.

Naturally we expected St Kilda to win when they had a good lead at half time and were known to play well in the final quarter.

But to attribute the major turnaround after half time to bad coaching by Lyon ignores the reality of what actually happened on field. St Kilda's midfield simply went MIA and that in my view was largely due to chronically weak on field leadersip - an issue that has bedevilled this team in the past two years.

Vortex correctly pointed out that Jack Steele, for as much as we admire the way he plays, is not a natural born leader of men. I can't imagine other AFL skippers such as Pendlebury, Gawn, Bontempelli etc standing by idly when players fail to take up positions at stoppages, which happened a lot in the second half yesterday. All the more crucial when you look at how many inexperienced kids are in the team.

Call me an aplogist for Ross Lyon if you wish, but he is well known this year for relying on his highly qualified assistants for game day strategies and far from 'The Boss' that he may have been in the past.

I am supremely confident that the club will be totally focussed on improving its midfield stocks in the off season and that in Lyon's second year this team will be on the rise.

Spewing invective at Lyon might make people feel good, but just remember that his current tenure has another 3 years to run, wishing him away ain't gonna happen!

You seem to forget or overlook that Ratts had a couple of years to go on his contract when he was given the don't come Monday message.

[Yorkeys]

Sanctorum wrote (extract):
"But to attribute the major turnaround after half time to bad coaching by Lyon ignores the reality of what actually happened on field. St Kilda's midfield simply went MIA and that in my view was largely due to chronically weak on field leadersip - an issue that has bedevilled this team in the past two years.
Vortex correctly pointed out that Jack Steele, for as much as we admire the way he plays, is not a natural born leader of men. I can't imagine other AFL skippers such as Pendlebury, Gawn, Bontempelli etc standing by idly when players fail to take up positions at stoppages, which happened a lot in the second half yesterday. All the more crucial when you look at how many inexperienced kids are in the team.
Call me an aplogist for Ross Lyon if you wish, but he is well known this year for relying on his highly qualified assistants for game day strategies and far from 'The Boss' that he may have been in the past."

Yes you are an apologist for Ross. Been there myself, of course. Imagine if we had just sacked Jack Steel instead of Ratts.
Got to feel for Ross, he is so let down by those around him.
Anyway looks like just one more match then the planning for the 24 season can start, including the recruitment of A. McQualter to the largest coaching panel assembled since the moon launch. Will remove Ross one more space from diabolical performances, if AMc choses to accept that mission.
2023 season seems to have gone on for so long, but we don't seem to have actually got anywhere. Chasing our tails?

[Sanctorum]

I think he’s done a good job.

Team is reasonably organized.

Because of the ‘Ross hype’ he has ridiculous cult like status that is easily shot down.

Easy to forget that we played some great quarters.

With these babies in the side we can’t shouldn’t expect too much.

I think we are done for this year, and next year might not necessarily be fantastic, but upside is still huge.

Totally under siege yesterday and Webster and Wilkie were mighty.

We desperately need a ruckman IMO.

I'm with you Shane, there are supporters out there who are so fixated on their hatred of Ross Lyon that they lose all sense of objective analysis when the side goes down.

Naturally we expected St Kilda to win when they had a good lead at half time and were known to play well in the final quarter.

But to attribute the major turnaround after half time to bad coaching by Lyon ignores the reality of what actually happened on field. St Kilda's midfield simply went MIA and that in my view was largely due to chronically weak on field leadersip - an issue that has bedevilled this team in the past two years.

Vortex correctly pointed out that Jack Steele, for as much as we admire the way he plays, is not a natural born leader of men. I can't imagine other AFL skippers such as Pendlebury, Gawn, Bontempelli etc standing by idly when players fail to take up positions at stoppages, which happened a lot in the second half yesterday. All the more crucial when you look at how many inexperienced kids are in the team.

Call me an aplogist for Ross Lyon if you wish, but he is well known this year for relying on his highly qualified assistants for game day strategies and far from 'The Boss' that he may have been in the past.

I am supremely confident that the club will be totally focussed on improving its midfield stocks in the off season and that in Lyon's second year this team will be on the rise.

Spewing invective at Lyon might make people feel good, but just remember that his current tenure has another 3 years to run, wishing him away ain't gonna happen!

You seem to forget or overlook that Ratts had a couple of years to go on his contract when he was given the don't come Monday message.

Anyway looks like just one more match then the planning for the 24 season can start, including the recruitment of A. McQualter to the largest coaching panel assembled since the moon launch. Will remove Ross one more space from diabolical performances, if AMc choses to accept that mission.
2023 season seems to have gone on for so long, but we don't seem to have actually got anywhere. Chasing our tails?

If Mini misses out on the Richmond job he could well team up at his former club with his old coach Yorkeys

[Sanctorum]

You seem to forget or overlook that Ratts had a couple of years to go on his contract when he was given the don't come Monday message.

Hard to forget or overlook that, but you won't see a replay anytime soon.

The club is 100% united on achieving total success under the current coaching regime which gladdens my old heart...

[Teflon]

I think he’s done a good job.

Team is reasonably organized.

Because of the ‘Ross hype’ he has ridiculous cult like status that is easily shot down.

Easy to forget that we played some great quarters.

With these babies in the side we can’t shouldn’t expect too much.

I think we are done for this year, and next year might not necessarily be fantastic, but upside is still huge.

Totally under siege yesterday and Webster and Wilkie were mighty.

We desperately need a ruckman IMO.

I'm with you Shane, there are supporters out there who are so fixated on their hatred of Ross Lyon that they lose all sense of objective analysis when the side goes down.

Naturally we expected St Kilda to win when they had a good lead at half time and were known to play well in the final quarter.

But to attribute the major turnaround after half time to bad coaching by Lyon ignores the reality of what actually happened on field. St Kilda's midfield simply went MIA and that in my view was largely due to chronically weak on field leadersip - an issue that has bedevilled this team in the past two years.

Vortex correctly pointed out that Jack Steele, for as much as we admire the way he plays, is not a natural born leader of men. I can't imagine other AFL skippers such as Pendlebury, Gawn, Bontempelli etc standing by idly when players fail to take up positions at stoppages, which happened a lot in the second half yesterday. All the more crucial when you look at how many inexperienced kids are in the team.

Call me an aplogist for Ross Lyon if you wish, but he is well known this year for relying on his highly qualified assistants for game day strategies and far from 'The Boss' that he may have been in the past.

I am supremely confident that the club will be totally focussed on improving its midfield stocks in the off season and that in Lyon's second year this team will be on the rise.

Spewing invective at Lyon might make people feel good, but just remember that his current tenure has another 3 years to run, wishing him away ain't gonna happen!

Superb post
You are not a Lyon apologist - you’re a realist there’s a big difference
Ignore those with **** all evidence to back up their “coaching failures claim” it’s utter BS derived from sick fir of hate for the guy
Me? I don’t care if Attila The Hun coaches I just want a flag and think he’s best credentialed to get us one (I know from those close to the club his ambition to see Saints get a 2nd flag impressed those who met with him before appointment)
Let’s face it - will 4 years be enough to turn this list around?? Maybe/maybe not but IF MqUalter loses out at Tigers….come join the band Mini ….he’s well respected tactically…win/win

[shanegrambeau]

1) I think an independent and dispassionate observer, someone impartial or following another club, might look at the Saints and Ross Lyon and just say, meh…just an average team, with injuries and youngsters, who attempt to follow a plan - a cogent an so far reasonable effective plan that limits the damage other teams could reek upon them…and sometimes, lucky enough to get on a roll themselves.

2) I think it is possible that one can dislike Atilah the Hun and yet still enjoy, say, a steak sandwich from his roadside burger house. in other words, it is possible to hate Ross Lyon (if that is your cup of chai) and still appreciate that we have managed to stay in the 8 this long given the weak list, injuries and all the other reasons/excuses

3) A lot of the tough talk is, as usual, just from those , a) having a laugh , b) wanting to move their bones, or c) baying for a fight with other posters to demonstrate this or that, maybe that they matter. Fair enough. ‘I for one, don’t give…’ type posts..Who cares what you/we do..right?

Anyway, if Lyon falls and fails, as he ultimately must, (they all eventually do) they will be there to remind us! Lol But I must say, some swift u-turns have been taken. And some jumping-of-ships.

We ain’t that good, for sure. But we are having a crack, and there is a system to it. Not a bad start.

[Teflon]

Here’s some RTB myth from Mason Wood for the true believers..

“Ross likes to make sure no day is wasted, even if you're in rehab, he makes sure you're doing the program and doing it well, he gets the best out of players. Guys are just going to get better under his standards."

- Mason Wood on Ross Lyon's standards

Let’s guess the anti-Lyon vaxxers responses:

1. What would he know….he’s just a current player…meh
2. He’s going to say that…ofcourse he is he’s a RTB fanboy
3. He’s scared and about to go into witness protection
4. How do you know he meant RTB??? He only said Ross?
5. Mason Wood cost us the 2009 GF
6. I hate Mason Wood now.

[Scollop]

Here’s some RTB myth from Mason Wood for the true believers..

“Ross likes to make sure no day is wasted, even if you're in rehab, he makes sure you're doing the program and doing it well, he gets the best out of players. Guys are just going to get better under his standards."

- Mason Wood on Ross Lyon's standards

Let’s guess the anti-Lyon vaxxers responses:

1. What would he know….he’s just a current player…meh
2. He’s going to say that…ofcourse he is he’s a RTB fanboy
3. He’s scared and about to go into witness protection
4. How do you know he meant RTB??? He only said Ross?
5. Mason Wood cost us the 2009 GF
6. I hate Mason Wood now.

Scott Morrison...is that you?

C'mon Teffers. Why are you trying so hard to protect the coach? He's fine for at least 3 years.

I mean... seriously.. don't you think he needs feedback like every one else does? Is he immune from criticism is he? And..hey...I didn't blame him for the loss against Carlton. I just thought you went way too hard at defending the coaches and bagging the players.

And that effort above... C'mon you can do better than that

Have you got a student intern writing for you

[Teflon]

Here’s some RTB myth from Mason Wood for the true believers..

“Ross likes to make sure no day is wasted, even if you're in rehab, he makes sure you're doing the program and doing it well, he gets the best out of players. Guys are just going to get better under his standards."

- Mason Wood on Ross Lyon's standards

Let’s guess the anti-Lyon vaxxers responses:

1. What would he know….he’s just a current player…meh
2. He’s going to say that…ofcourse he is he’s a RTB fanboy
3. He’s scared and about to go into witness protection
4. How do you know he meant RTB??? He only said Ross?
5. Mason Wood cost us the 2009 GF
6. I hate Mason Wood now.

Scott Morrison...is that you?

C'mon Teffers. Why are you trying so hard to protect the coach? He's fine for at least 3 years.

I mean... seriously.. don't you think he needs feedback like every one else does? Is he immune from criticism is he? And..hey...I didn't blame him for the loss against Carlton. I just thought you went way too hard at defending the coaches and bagging the players.

And that effort above... C'mon you can do better than that

Have you got a student intern writing for you

Imitation is the greatest form of …
Or for you Albanese types ..
immigration is the greatest form of…
RTB is a liberal by the way….that ought to finally tip you over the edge ..

[Yorkeys]

Here’s some RTB myth from Mason Wood for the true believers..

“Ross likes to make sure no day is wasted, even if you're in rehab, he makes sure you're doing the program and doing it well, he gets the best out of players. Guys are just going to get better under his standards."

- Mason Wood on Ross Lyon's standards

Let’s guess the anti-Lyon vaxxers responses:

1. What would he know….he’s just a current player…meh
2. He’s going to say that…ofcourse he is he’s a RTB fanboy
3. He’s scared and about to go into witness protection
4. How do you know he meant RTB??? He only said Ross?
5. Mason Wood cost us the 2009 GF
6. I hate Mason Wood now.

Two observations: surprised Mason is not captain, great job application, but. And Ross must be so dirty about wasting Sunday, particularly from about 4.30pm on. Still what doesn't kill your finals hopes makes you stronger.

[Teflon]

Brett Ratten into 2021 season quote:

“Top 4 quality. If we learn to stop the fade-outs from last year we could go a long way.
You never know… maybe a dark horse for the flag”

There’s your myth
**** delusional

[Yorkeys]

Brett Ratten into 2021 season quote:

“Top 4 quality. If we learn to stop the fade-outs from last year we could go a long way.
You never know… maybe a dark horse for the flag”

There’s your myth
**** delusional

Weren't we in the top 4 until the Ross effect kicked in.

[Teflon]

Brett Ratten into 2021 season quote:

“Top 4 quality. If we learn to stop the fade-outs from last year we could go a long way.
You never know… maybe a dark horse for the flag”

There’s your myth
**** delusional

Weren't we in the top 4 until the Ross effect kicked in.

I think you’ve lost it Yorkey
And the Ross effect hasn’t started yet …strap in or on whatever’s floating your boat