My parting words, RTB is a myth!

[SydneySainter]

The so-called defensive master???

We kicked one goal in an entire second half on our own dung heap.

Only St Kilda…

[The Fireman]

Bye

[Mr Magic]

You needed to start 4 threads to show us all what a fool you are?
One would have been more than sufficient.

[Sainter_Dad]

Please ban the OP

[Trev from the Bush]

You've already had four chances to say goodbye. If you don't like water, stay on the Harbour Bridge. Preferably out of the traffic. Now, again, effoff!

[axcellence]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys!

[Scollop]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys!

Yeah ... my whipping boy is usually a Brad or a Ross (rtb )

We all saw what was coming. Carlton regained the momentum prior to the 3 quarter time siren.

What did the coach do to stop that momentum?

We were still in front but we weren't scoring. What did Ross do to help the team score goals?

Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's fair to say 'nothing wrong' when we got so comprehensively smashed in so many areas in the second half

[magnifisaint]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys!

Yeah ... my whipping boy is usually a Brad or a Ross (rtb )

We all saw what was coming. Carlton regained the momentum prior to the 3 quarter time siren.

What did the coach do to stop that momentum?

We were still in front but we weren't scoring. What did Ross do to help the team score goals?

Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's fair to say 'nothing wrong' when we got so comprehensively smashed in so many areas in the second half

What can you do when your key forwards in Caminiti and Sharman can't get a kick and when King was avoiding all contact?

[Teflon]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys!

Yeah ... my whipping boy is usually a Brad or a Ross (rtb )

We all saw what was coming. Carlton regained the momentum prior to the 3 quarter time siren.

What did the coach do to stop that momentum?

We were still in front but we weren't scoring. What did Ross do to help the team score goals?

Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's fair to say 'nothing wrong' when we got so comprehensively smashed in so many areas in the second half

Absolute dross as usual in your anti Lyon rubbish
Game was lost by a pathetic midfield effort in second half and last qtr
Steele - 0 possession
Crouch - 1 possession
Clark - 0 possession
2/3rds of your midfield shiits the bed and it’s bad coaching???
Absolute muppet stuff
What did the coach do????
Ran Owens through , ran Sinclair, tried Windhager …it’s up to senior players to step up and lead on field when challenged
This marshmallow crew have done this for 5 years
Soon as Gresham goes the better btw

[Vortex]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys!

Yeah ... my whipping boy is usually a Brad or a Ross (rtb )

We all saw what was coming. Carlton regained the momentum prior to the 3 quarter time siren.

What did the coach do to stop that momentum?

We were still in front but we weren't scoring. What did Ross do to help the team score goals?

Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's fair to say 'nothing wrong' when we got so comprehensively smashed in so many areas in the second half

Absolute dross as usual in your anti Lyon rubbish
Game was lost by a pathetic midfield effort in second half and last qtr
Steele - 0 possession
Crouch - 1 possession
Clark - 0 possession
2/3rds of your midfield shiits the bed and it’s bad coaching???
Absolute muppet stuff
What did the coach do????
Ran Owens through , ran Sinclair, tried Windhager …it’s up to senior players to step up and lead on field when challenged
This marshmallow crew have done this for 5 years
Soon as Gresham goes the better btw

what are your thoughts on the captaincy going forward, can you see a change in the off season.

[nobhead]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys!

Yeah ... my whipping boy is usually a Brad or a Ross (rtb )

We all saw what was coming. Carlton regained the momentum prior to the 3 quarter time siren.

What did the coach do to stop that momentum?

We were still in front but we weren't scoring. What did Ross do to help the team score goals?

Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's fair to say 'nothing wrong' when we got so comprehensively smashed in so many areas in the second half

Absolute dross as usual in your anti Lyon rubbish
Game was lost by a pathetic midfield effort in second half and last qtr
Steele - 0 possession
Crouch - 1 possession
Clark - 0 possession
2/3rds of your midfield shiits the bed and it’s bad coaching???
Absolute muppet stuff
What did the coach do????
Ran Owens through , ran Sinclair, tried Windhager …it’s up to senior players to step up and lead on field when challenged
This marshmallow crew have done this for 5 years
Soon as Gresham goes the better btw

This spot on .

[magnifisaint]

Ross needs to start being a hard arse again. We f***ed up by hiring Watters way back when and have become soft. Got Richo and he didn't have much of a clue and then Ratten had his back against it. We do mediocrity better than anyone else. Time to break that mould.

[Scollop]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys

Yeah ... my whipping boy is usually a Brad or a Ross (rtb )

We all saw what was coming. Carlton regained the momentum prior to the 3 quarter time siren.

What did the coach do to stop that momentum?

We were still in front but we weren't scoring. What did Ross do to help the team score goals?

Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's fair to say 'nothing wrong' when we got so comprehensively smashed in so many areas in the second half

Absolute dross as usual in your anti Lyon rubbish
Game was lost by a pathetic midfield effort in second half and last qtr
Steele - 0 possession
Crouch - 1 possession
Clark - 0 possession
2/3rds of your midfield shiits the bed and it’s bad coaching???
Absolute muppet stuff
What did the coach do????
Ran Owens through , ran Sinclair, tried Windhager …it’s up to senior players to step up and lead on field when challenged
This marshmallow crew have done this for 5 years
Soon as Gresham goes the better btw

Btw, I just want to correct you before I make a comment on the coaching

Steele and Crouch both had zero possessions in the last quarter. Clark had 1.

Anyone who isn't a Ross Lyon devotee would look at the disposal count of these 3 guys you mentioned and wouldn't simply say they are marshmallows or soft. You have to ask why in the context of the match and the way they're asked to play

Is Steele soft? Is Crouch soft? They're certainly not young and they're not considered as poor endurance runners.

Anyhow...firstly...instead of calling me a Muppet, how about looking at things without always being stubborn. Even the best coaches learn and grow from their mistakes. People who are neutral see what we dished up and understand it's a systematic issue when several of your mids are cooked in the last quarter.

I'm sure you'll be reading about it in the papers and On the Couch with the FoxFooty crew

Have we seen this pattern of low scores in the past with R Lyon coached teams? And ..most importantly...was there a pattern of his side's mids running out of gas in last quarters?

[axcellence]

A little bit of this and a little bit of that… in the end, the 18-23 players were all Ross had. Possibly, he could have left Stocker out and brought Bytel or a Membrey in.

In the end, it’s a cupboard bare scene. Ross has his own limitations. He’s also got an inferior list than 2006-2011.

[Teflon]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys

Yeah ... my whipping boy is usually a Brad or a Ross (rtb )

We all saw what was coming. Carlton regained the momentum prior to the 3 quarter time siren.

What did the coach do to stop that momentum?

We were still in front but we weren't scoring. What did Ross do to help the team score goals?

Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's fair to say 'nothing wrong' when we got so comprehensively smashed in so many areas in the second half

Absolute dross as usual in your anti Lyon rubbish
Game was lost by a pathetic midfield effort in second half and last qtr
Steele - 0 possession
Crouch - 1 possession
Clark - 0 possession
2/3rds of your midfield shiits the bed and it’s bad coaching???
Absolute muppet stuff
What did the coach do????
Ran Owens through , ran Sinclair, tried Windhager …it’s up to senior players to step up and lead on field when challenged
This marshmallow crew have done this for 5 years
Soon as Gresham goes the better btw

Btw, I just want to correct you before I make a comment on the coaching

Steele and Crouch both had zero possessions in the last quarter. Clark had 1.

Anyone who isn't a Ross Lyon devotee would look at the disposal count of these 3 guys you mentioned and wouldn't simply say they are marshmallows or soft. You have to ask why in the context of the match and the way they're asked to play

Is Steele soft? Is Crouch soft? They're certainly not young and they're not considered as poor endurance runners.

Anyhow...firstly...instead of calling me a Muppet, how about looking at things without always being stubborn. Even the best coaches learn and grow from their mistakes. People who are neutral see what we dished up and understand it's a systematic issue when several of your mids are cooked in the last quarter.

I'm sure you'll be reading about it in the papers and On the Couch with the FoxFooty crew

Have we seen this pattern of low scores in the past with R Lyon coached teams? And ..most importantly...was there a pattern of his side's mids running out of gas in last quarters?

Look I love to pretend Ross sits in the control tower …just pulling red and blue levers to totally control all facets of the game with a “system”
Reality is: system is trained into them already
Run on the field - your on field leaders take over and have a much bigger say on results
Sometimes it’s not about “system” - when players get zero possessions in a qtr (in Crouch’s case after being very good early) it’s purely about winning a contest and getting hands on the footy
Soft? We are mentally soft as a leadership group when challenged
I’m happy to stand by that
In Crouch’s defence- Hewett tagged him second half …he had no one to go with him
Steele was a liability - a defensive mid, reacts often with a tackle AFTER his opponent wins the footy
Unlike say Cripps who can generate/make the play
There is your difference
Not system
Cattle.

[saynta]

Voss clearly out coached RTB after half time

[Teflon]

Nonsense
Voss’s midfield clearly outplayed our plodders

[Saint2]

Looking at some of the centre bounces, and stoppages around the ground, I really thought that our setups or structures were all wrong- players standing where they had no hope of getting a loose ball, no players outside on a spread to receive, too many standing close together and losing their direct opponents. Lyon, Hayes and Harvs have work to do, it's not all down to the players.

[samoht]

Steele was a liability - a defensive mid, reacts often with a tackle AFTER his opponent wins the footy
Unlike say Cripps who can generate/make the play
There is your difference
Not system
Cattle.

Exactly.

Our dairy farm has been under-producing for many years now, and it's because our underachieving recruiters (our poor judges/procurers of cattle) haven't been able to find or acquire top-notch milkers for years.

Bringing in a new farmer every so often (changing coaches) isn't going to make a jot of difference.

We need the best recruiters/cattle judges - end of story.

But RTB is still getting a lot wrong (just ask the opposition half backs).

[The Fireman]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys!

Yeah ... my whipping boy is usually a Brad or a Ross (rtb )

We all saw what was coming. Carlton regained the momentum prior to the 3 quarter time siren.

What did the coach do to stop that momentum?

We were still in front but we weren't scoring. What did Ross do to help the team score goals?

Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's fair to say 'nothing wrong' when we got so comprehensively smashed in so many areas in the second half

Absolute dross as usual in your anti Lyon rubbish
Game was lost by a pathetic midfield effort in second half and last qtr
Steele - 0 possession
Crouch - 1 possession
Clark - 0 possession
2/3rds of your midfield shiits the bed and it’s bad coaching???
Absolute muppet stuff
What did the coach do????
Ran Owens through , ran Sinclair, tried Windhager …it’s up to senior players to step up and lead on field when challenged
This marshmallow crew have done this for 5 years
Soon as Gresham goes the better btw

what are your thoughts on the captaincy going forward, can you see a change in the off season.

Wilkie should be captain, he speaks well and leads by example taking nothing away from Steele but he may not be capt material

[Yorkeys]

So by weight of passion in the thread the consensus is the side is well coached and Ross can't be held accountable for how players perform.
And there are fairies at the bottom of the Linton St ground.

[Vortex]

I actually felt bad for Ross. He had to come out and put a himself on the line in the press conference after that kind of performance. That was all the players, nothing wrong with the coaching.
We all have our favourite whipping boys!

Yeah ... my whipping boy is usually a Brad or a Ross (rtb )

We all saw what was coming. Carlton regained the momentum prior to the 3 quarter time siren.

What did the coach do to stop that momentum?

We were still in front but we weren't scoring. What did Ross do to help the team score goals?

Maybe you're right, but I don't think it's fair to say 'nothing wrong' when we got so comprehensively smashed in so many areas in the second half

Absolute dross as usual in your anti Lyon rubbish
Game was lost by a pathetic midfield effort in second half and last qtr
Steele - 0 possession
Crouch - 1 possession
Clark - 0 possession
2/3rds of your midfield shiits the bed and it’s bad coaching???
Absolute muppet stuff
What did the coach do????
Ran Owens through , ran Sinclair, tried Windhager …it’s up to senior players to step up and lead on field when challenged
This marshmallow crew have done this for 5 years
Soon as Gresham goes the better btw

what are your thoughts on the captaincy going forward, can you see a change in the off season.

Wilkie should be captain, he speaks well and leads by example taking nothing away from Steele but he may not be capt material

Yeah totally, I love Steele and he’s a big part of the big picture but lack of onfield leadership when an opposition strong arms us as they did in the 3rd is when you want a Captain to do something creative that makes the “not on my watch” statement.

Steele is the most courageous player we have and you can never question his effort and he always has the highest tackling stats but he just lacks the ability to get us going forward when the strong arm is on.

What do you think about RoMa as a smoky?

[Teflon]

So by weight of passion in the thread the consensus is the side is well coached and Ross can't be held accountable for how players perform.
And there are fairies at the bottom of the Linton St ground.

What else would you have liked him to do ???
25 points up half time …
Do tell …you’re the one chatting to fairies…
No problem re questioning the coach but ffs at least put up an alternative view????
Cheap seats snipers get no love from me

[Teflon]

Looking at some of the centre bounces, and stoppages around the ground, I really thought that our setups or structures were all wrong- players standing where they had no hope of getting a loose ball, no players outside on a spread to receive, too many standing close together and losing their direct opponents. Lyon, Hayes and Harvs have work to do, it's not all down to the players.

I think that’s fair but I think this is where on field leaders need to kick in
I can’t imagine Lenny or Ross tells them all to stand together ???
Outside run is a major midfield issue
I like Clarke but once the ball is outside he’s out of the game
Crouch Ross Steele all same
I honestly think had we managed to break even in that midfield contest like 1st half then we win
That said, Carlton’s midfield talent (even missing Walsh/Cerra) embarrasses us
Can’t make a silk purse…

[samoht]

Looking at some of the centre bounces, and stoppages around the ground, I really thought that our setups or structures were all wrong- players standing where they had no hope of getting a loose ball, no players outside on a spread to receive, too many standing close together and losing their direct opponents. Lyon, Hayes and Harvs have work to do, it's not all down to the players.

I think that’s fair but I think this is where on field leaders need to kick in
I can’t imagine Lenny or Ross tells them all to stand together ???
Outside run is a major midfield issue
I like Clarke but once the ball is outside he’s out of the game
Crouch Ross Steele all same
I honestly think had we managed to break even in that midfield contest like 1st half then we win
That said, Carlton’s midfield talent (even missing Walsh/Cerra) embarrasses us
Can’t make a silk purse…

So, really, that has been our problem all along - lack of talent, including getting the team balance right, in terms of outside run, etc...
It all comes down to the cattle -who you've recruited - and not the coaches.
So, shouldn't we stop adulating or blaming coaches? Isn't it about time?
As I mentioned, RL is still getting a lot wrong, IMHO, in any case.
But in the big scheme of things, a coach is nowhere near as important as the recruiter.
If a club keeps turning over coaches, you can bet something else is really going wrong.