Did Our Backline Look Better W/O Howard?

[Saints58]

IMHO, whatever his faults, Howard is very important for our structure down back and until we have an alternative 200cm defender he is always going to play.

I thought Battle didn't have a great game (defensively) and I attribute that to us being 1 tall defender short.

Jimmy had a nightmare game against Breust - seemed to get lost repeatedly.

Well… watching the Sandy game, Oscar Adam’s had a massive game. I was really impressed.

Yes he has been really consistent the last couple of weeks is a big unit at 198cm something we have not had for a while still needs a bit of wieght at 87kg but is getting there.
Some of the forwards in the VFL are AFL players so he does do a good job on them.

[SAINT-LEE]

Windhager and Stocker are better off falling into gaps and running the ball out.

Breust was never going to win the game in a shoot out. Every other player was covered.

So he got a few cheap ones ducking out the back after turnovers. Good on him.

Webster was never going to stick fat to Breust...Breust is a fine player Id love to have, Webster was matched well in general play but as you said, hes a sneaky lad and slips out to grab a cheeky goal if you let him & Webster aint no Steven Baker...who'd rip Breust's tits off for even looking at him.

[Vortex]

Absolutely it did better considering it was up against the juggernaut Hawks forward line, not too many backlines in the comp can contain those goal frenzied monsters in the brown and gold.

[B.M]

Breust would have turned Wilkie inside out

Wilkie was is a gun (in the air) reads the queues better than most in the air

But is actually average at ground level - and is pretty slow.

[Trev from the Bush]

The site has been down all week but there is still the same stuff blocking the S-bend.

[Otiman]

No way.

If Ryan was a 50 gamer not a debutant we would have been smashed.

I am really impressed with the courage to back Cordy in up forward with how exposed we were (particularly Webster).

[SydneySainter]

Thought we missed Doogs tbh. I know he makes some bonehead decisions with ball in hand but as a pure 1v1 defender he's rarely beaten one-out against the monster forwards and is super important for our structure allowing Battle to play looser / 3rd man up and Wilkie to take the less powerful/more mobile forwards. McKay out for Carlton is a godsend in this regard this week.

Are you serious? Doogs is constantly beaten one on one. He’s actually a liability when playing one on one and the opposition know it.

I agree that Doogs is important to our structure, but his strength is when he’s supported by a strong team defence, not as a one on one fullback.

[B.M]

I can’t for the life of me understand why Cordy played forward?

We were undersized down back

Cordy was playing as a key forward - not sure how effective he was

He had 6 possessions and was easily the lowest ranked saint

I though it was an opportunity to play Cordy in a comfortable position for him - key back

[bigcarl]

I can’t for the life of me understand why Cordy played forward?

We were undersized down back

Cordy was playing as a key forward - not sure how effective he was

He had 6 possessions and was easily the lowest ranked saint

I though it was an opportunity to play Cordy in a comfortable position for him - key back

I agree his better position is back, but have you considered our lack of experience/height/strength up forward?

Caminiti promising teenager. Owens. Very promising teenager. Phillipou ditto. Sharman, just turned 23 … 25 AFL games.

Pretty sure that is why he was used forward. Structurally important, especially in the double/triple team on Sicily that was instrumental in getting us off to a flyer.

I’d have preferred Cordy back and someone else - maybe Hayes - forward to add to experience/height/strength. But obviously Ross didn’t think he had a viable, fit option to fill that role.

[Scollop]

The hard work was done in the middle.

Our backline conceded 17 marks inside 50. Their backline only conceded 11 marks in the forward 50.

We controlled the football for large parts of the game. We had a total of 136 marks(122 were uncontested). Our average this year for total marks is 100. The AFL average is 90.3

Hawthorn is poor at defending ball movement. Carlton is top 4 in this area. Hawthorn is bottom 2 when it comes to goals conceded per opposition entries. Collingwood, Carlton and St Kilda are top 3 in this area (that was with Dougs in the side)

We beat Hawks at centre clearance. Marshall was beaten in the ruck but he often won ground ball contest and got clearances for the midfield group. Wood and Sinclair ran into the centre and pitched in when the ball was in dispute.

We set up the win with our best quarter of attacking football for the year. We had 17 inside 50's in the first quarter and Hawks only went i50 7 times.

Hawthorn only had 46 inside 50 entries. We had 57. We had very good deep entries giving us multiple opportunities for goals out the back.

Of their 46 X i50's Hawthorn scored 23 times which is a high percentage compared to the AFL averages, so we need to do a lot better if we want to contain Carlton's forward line.

Also not going to be a walkover at stoppage clearances. That is one of Carlton's strengths.

[desertsaint]

yes, the answer is no.

[saintbob]

IMHO, whatever his faults, Howard is very important for our structure down back and until we have an alternative 200cm defender he is always going to play.

I thought Battle didn't have a great game (defensively) and I attribute that to us being 1 tall defender short.

Jimmy had a nightmare game against Breust - seemed to get lost repeatedly.

Probably been one of my concerns about Jimmy is that is strong and takes on the play, but he plays a long way off his man and can get caught out by quick turnarounds- we saw that yesterday.

That was probably the first time Jimmy has been comprehensively beaten all year, I reckon 3 of Breust’s goals come some very ordinary turnovers by our mids and Jimmy was caught out trying to turn defence into offence and Breust got out the back.

[saintbob]

IMHO, whatever his faults, Howard is very important for our structure down back and until we have an alternative 200cm defender he is always going to play.

I thought Battle didn't have a great game (defensively) and I attribute that to us being 1 tall defender short.

Jimmy had a nightmare game against Breust - seemed to get lost repeatedly.

Probably been one of my concerns about Jimmy is that is strong and takes on the play, but he plays a long way off his man and can get caught out by quick turnarounds- we saw that yesterday.

That was probably the first time Jimmy has been comprehensively beaten all year, I reckon 3 of Breust’s goals come some very ordinary turnovers by our mids and Jimmy was caught out trying to turn defence into offence and Breust got out the back.

[saynta]

Nope. Webster was found out a bit by Breust...He was the only forward looking remotely dangerous for them.
That would have been Wilkie and Howard would have played on Lewis.

Surprised that Cordy didn't go to Lewis and move Wilkie on to Breust.

Yes I was think ng the same about Cordy he will have to play KPD next week you would think on Carltons big forwards or we would get killed down back.

Hopefully Cordy will be playing for Sandy next week.

[n1ck]

Thought we missed Doogs tbh. I know he makes some bonehead decisions with ball in hand but as a pure 1v1 defender he's rarely beaten one-out against the monster forwards and is super important for our structure allowing Battle to play looser / 3rd man up and Wilkie to take the less powerful/more mobile forwards. McKay out for Carlton is a godsend in this regard this week.

Are you serious? Doogs is constantly beaten one on one. He’s actually a liability when playing one on one and the opposition know it.

I agree that Doogs is important to our structure, but his strength is when he’s supported by a strong team defence, not as a one on one fullback.

Disagree completely. Has been in the Top-10/15 defenders based on number and percentage of 1-on-1 contests won. he falls down when in possession with his disposal and execution, which can be mainly attributed to poor decision making. His pure defensive skills - as a defender not a distributor - are generally very good.

[SinCitySainter]

Hawthorn, the side currently sitting 3rd from the bottom kicked over 90 points against our backline.
That is only the third time this year we have conceded 90 points this year but sure our backline performed better without Howard.
If by looked better you mean made for a more entertaining game as both sides kicked goals with abandon then sure but better defensively not even close.
Howard is unbelievably maligned on this site he is a really good defender with a couple of weaknesses in his game which all but the best players in the game have.

[saynta]

I can’t for the life of me understand why Cordy played forward?

We were undersized down back

Cordy was playing as a key forward - not sure how effective he was

He had 6 possessions and was easily the lowest ranked saint

I though it was an opportunity to play Cordy in a comfortable position for him - key back

Just one more coach boo boo, added to a long list of crap decisions this year.

[WellardSaint]

Thought we missed Doogs tbh. I know he makes some bonehead decisions with ball in hand but as a pure 1v1 defender he's rarely beaten one-out against the monster forwards and is super important for our structure allowing Battle to play looser / 3rd man up and Wilkie to take the less powerful/more mobile forwards. McKay out for Carlton is a godsend in this regard this week.

Are you serious? Doogs is constantly beaten one on one. He’s actually a liability when playing one on one and the opposition know it.

I agree that Doogs is important to our structure, but his strength is when he’s supported by a strong team defence, not as a one on one fullback.

Whenever our defence stands up, it's always due to great teamwork between Dougal, Wilkie and Battle.
Wilkie is very good one-on-one, unless he's against a gorilla or a 200cm tower.
Battle is good one-on-one, but can be beaten.
Dougal, one-on-one, the oppo team get ready for a centre bounce because it's a fait accompli.

The 3, as a unit, work very well.
Isolated, Wilkie ranks 1st, Battle 2nd, Dougal not even bronze medal

[WellardSaint]

Zerohanger is rumouring that Howard is being spoken about amongst other clubs.
A year left on contract, he'd need to be Grundy'd

[Yorkeys]

The player that's not being spoken about is Dan the man Butler. He only has us.

[saynta]

Simple answer to a complex question. NO.