“Should Win” this Weekend

[MC Gusto]

No idea why people on here give Tony a hard time. Completely undeserved and frankly disrespectful. I for one greatly appreciate what he shares.

[saynta]

Me too mate,me too.

[The Fireman]

Players had a warts and all meeting before training this morning. No coaches, no staff. Will be interesting how they respond on Sunday

So?
They had a bloody meeting last yr after the bye after 99% of the players refused to perform against the Bombers.

It's a permanent St Kilda feature.
Play well early season, throw some games away, behave lazily and selfishly...
Have a 'brutal meeting'


NOTHING CHANGES.


Joke of a club

I think tony74 is of Egyptian ancestry.

He's in denial

poor form wellard

[Teflon]

No idea why people on here give Tony a hard time. Completely undeserved and frankly disrespectful. I for one greatly appreciate what he shares.

Spot on
We’ve got posters on here using mods as a tactic to settle some scores
And this type of rubbish posts goes through to the keepers?

[wally]

Thanks Tony for your posts I appreciate them and no doubt a few others do to.

[TheGreatZacsby]

I too would also like to thank Tony for all his contributions. Do we know if the player only meeting was run by RTB or the player leadership group?

Teflon… has Stav on BF said anything new?

[WellardSaint]

I've had time to reflect.
Gonna walk back my criticism of anthony, I don't think he's in denial, but I don't understand why he thinks a player meeting will achieve anything, when the players had a 'meeting' last year after a slump.

End of season 2022, 'honest review' uncovered several issues that were addressed by removing Cuddles, getting RTB, inviting Harves+Lenny+BJ.

This year, we had nice wins early, then certain behaviours on-field crept in, were either ignored by coaches or not addressed+corrected before they snowballed.

And form has snowballed now to the point where another 'honest meeting' happens.

Shouldn't have gotten this far.
RTB has been out of coaching for a bit, so I put it on Harves+Boris to fix probs at first signs, not let it get out of hand.

It's gone too far now.

I don''t believe they will address it at end of year with 5-7 players going, and new guys coming in.

The coaches, collectively, have proven to be stubborn and unchanging- so they'll just make the same mistakes but with different players.
They take far too long to react, they aren't creative nor innovative.

[Trev from the Bush]

Ratts v RBT. Should be interesting.

Poor old Ratts looks like he has been getting pulled up at a few RBT's.

A good quality shampoo and shave daily would do wonders for him.

Fair crack, that's not on is it, he was a decent coach in a difficult time and did his darndest for the club. Respect?
We nearly destroyed him, if we didn't actually, by breaking our word. Brett put heart and soul into the job. So far his replacement has not justified the way he was treated.
Ross on the other hand, our David Beckham? grooming personified? .......not modelling recently for Influential Coaches of the Decade, or for Playboys (please play boys!), maybe Hustlers?

You must be a very obliging and accepting person. I am a bit old fashioned and feel uncomfortable about club leaders fronting the media on a regular basis looking like they have had a rough night out at Flinders Street Station. It does not portray a positive image. And while Brad Scott has chosen the homeless look in recent times, his club is not treading water at th bottom of the ladder.

Your stretching it a bit, if I was paying Brett's wages I would be suggest a spruce-up would portray a more positive image. Both of himself and the club.

[Yorkeys]

[

You must be a very obliging and accepting person. I am a bit old fashioned and feel uncomfortable about club leaders fronting the media on a regular basis looking like they have had a rough night out at Flinders Street Station. It does not portray a positive image. And while Brad Scott has chosen the homeless look in recent times, his club is not treading water at th bottom of the ladder.

Your stretching it a bit, if I was paying Brett's wages I would be suggest a spruce-up would portray a more positive image. Both of himself and the club.

Fair enough. In Ratts defence its hard to look dapper in the Kangaroo rig, the colours don't suit most people, a sort of Monet blue with a weird Qantas logo, generous one size fits all. Its unfortunate MOSH is our sponsor.

[magnifisaint]

I reckon the players were exchanging cake recipes.

[shanegrambeau]

I've had time to reflect.
Gonna walk back my criticism of anthony…..
…..
This year…. certain behaviours on-field crept in, were either ignored by coaches …..

The coaches….stubborn and unchanging…..take far too long to react, they aren't creative…

1) Respect for admitting an overstep or ‘walking back’

2) Please tell,
a) @ ‘certain behavioirs’??? What, which??
B) @ ‘stubborn’ How? Examples?


May I add, if the same team is being selected week in, week out, it doesn’t necessarily mean the rationale for selection hasn’t changed, or that something is not being ‘explored’.

[WellardSaint]

I've had time to reflect.
Gonna walk back my criticism of anthony…..
…..
This year…. certain behaviours on-field crept in, were either ignored by coaches …..

The coaches….stubborn and unchanging…..take far too long to react, they aren't creative…

1) Respect for admitting an overstep or ‘walking back’

2) Please tell,
a) @ ‘certain behavioirs’??? What, which??
B) @ ‘stubborn’ How? Examples?


May I add, if the same team is being selected week in, week out, it doesn’t necessarily mean the rationale for selection hasn’t changed, or that something is not being ‘explored’.

Players not assisting team-mates in the same way as early on.
Fwds not leading into space.
Players not lowering eyes.
Hugging boundary with silly little chip kicks and hoping for a throw-in.
Higgo dislocated finger but insisted on taking shot outside his range, also trying to play like Tom Papley or a marking fwd.
Gresh being Gresh.
Having half the tackles of the oppo.

Coaches playing Steele+Wood when clearly injured.
Not gerring guys in righr headspace bedore games.
Persisting with boys when they should be rested.
Letting whole team have 3 days straight of no training each week.
Not demanding higher standards of disposal at training nor match day.

[asiu]

Letting whole team have 3 days straight of no training each week.

is that 'recovery' focussed ?

[Teflon]

This post from Stav BF is a ripper and gives a decent idea of this players meeting and maybe how things are different this time…:

******

And just on this player only meeting.

If you have ever led a team of people. You will know how much clarity and context you need to provide to get them to perform their jobs adequately - before you need to spend your time developing them and coaching them to become the team you want them to be.

Wilkie Steele Ross Howard etc - who out of them has been a leader of a really successful side before?

So you can see why talking has previously failed. It wasn’t never back stopped by a strong club leader as coach. These are my standard, this is what we are buying into. This is us etc.

Even if this meeting fails - there is a bloke who is watching. A bloke who won’t give a * whether it’s Steele King or Allison and Adams - if they can’t step up for each other. For the club or just the simple fact it’s their job. They will be gone.

I guarantee you and promise you that.

Adversity moulded Ross in 08 - we were bad, he made a few tough decisions and it helped him fulfil his potential as a coach. It was the making of that playing group. It calmed and focused the playing list. It then made it possible to raise the expectations and bar in the following pre season.


“The year of exploration”

Buy into it. Don’t. Up to you.

We need to find out who is who in this group. We are doing that now.

When this club is considered a contender. You won’t hear about cuddly Ross.

Let that be your marker of our success.

[SaintPav]

Drink up.

[Teflon]

Drink up.

Buuuuuuuurrrrp

[Scollop]

"We were bad in 08"

Bulldust we were. How the f*** was it a 'bad team' when they'd played in 3 consecutive finals series before he arrived?

The team Lyon inherited and the list of players that lined up in the finals in 2008, was essentially the same team line up in 09/10 (see link below for semi final team from 2008) The team included R Harvey. Yeah sure...we were bad

His claim to fame was that he dropped Dal Santo and Milney in 08. Woopee doo!! He didn't transform the list. He didn't bring in or uncover matchwinners from other teams.

https://finalsiren.com/MatchDetails.asp ... 220787a8e4

Count them. There's at least 18 from 2008 that played off in Grand Finals in 09/10. He didn't create the list. It was gifted to him

He brought in Michael Gardener and one or two others. How'd they play on GF day. It was the guys that were the core that performed and gave us a chance. The players who were moulded by others

[Teflon]

[Scollop]

I challenge your Messiah to get the job done Teflon. He's going to need to rely on Toce and his team along with Gubby to give him half a chance

I think he can, but the issue with our club (and with all clubs) has always been to be able to assemble a list capable of winning enough games to finish top 4...or at least to be close to top 4 and have the runs on the board in the home and away season against the top 4 teams.

That's going to take time. It means we need unity and strong leadership for the next 4-5 years.

Let's see if Ross and the club can get it done

[Teflon]

I challenge your Messiah to get the job done Teflon. He's going to need to rely on Toce and his team along with Gubby to give him half a chance

I think he can, but the issue with our club (and with all clubs) has always been to be able to assemble a list capable of winning enough games to finish top 4...or at least to be close to top 4 and have the runs on the board in the home and away season against the top 4 teams.

That's going to take time. It means we need unity and strong leadership for the next 4-5 years.

Let's see if Ross and the club can get it done

I don’t think Lyon will get it done (I wish he would)
I suspect he’ll set the direction (he’s already set standards and some players clearly don’t like it…that’s ok) and he’ll have off to an assistant or whoever takes over
Whatever he does it won’t change your mind that he’ll have failed
Ofcourse he’ll need to rely on good recruiting and that’s a risk he has taken ….I’m not sold on SOS at all …..but Toce has runs on the board so …let the cobblers cobble is what I hope they do
He’ll have Board stability- Bassatt has bet it all on RTB
Personally I’m just happy he’s prepared to shake the place up a bit he knows he has to
Ratten and Richardson spent last 10 years saving their jobs and not coaching for our future
Lyon has 4 years….he’ll need them all

[Scollop]

I challenge your Messiah to get the job done Teflon. He's going to need to rely on Toce and his team along with Gubby to give him half a chance

I think he can, but the issue with our club (and with all clubs) has always been to be able to assemble a list capable of winning enough games to finish top 4...or at least to be close to top 4 and have the runs on the board in the home and away season against the top 4 teams.

That's going to take time. It means we need unity and strong leadership for the next 4-5 years.

Let's see if Ross and the club can get it done

I don’t think Lyon will get it done (I wish he would)
I suspect he’ll set the direction (he’s already set standards and some players clearly don’t like it…that’s ok) and he’ll have off to an assistant or whoever takes over

Why not?

Are you making excuses for him before it's harvest time?

Or...don't you think he's got what it takes to last the distance and see the fruits of his labour

He knew what he was getting into. He's got to let go a bit and be vulnerable. Admit some learning and some mistakes will be made along the way

[Teflon]

I challenge your Messiah to get the job done Teflon. He's going to need to rely on Toce and his team along with Gubby to give him half a chance

I think he can, but the issue with our club (and with all clubs) has always been to be able to assemble a list capable of winning enough games to finish top 4...or at least to be close to top 4 and have the runs on the board in the home and away season against the top 4 teams.

That's going to take time. It means we need unity and strong leadership for the next 4-5 years.

Let's see if Ross and the club can get it done

I don’t think Lyon will get it done (I wish he would)
I suspect he’ll set the direction (he’s already set standards and some players clearly don’t like it…that’s ok) and he’ll have off to an assistant or whoever takes over

Why not?

Are you making excuses for him before it's harvest time?

Or...don't you think he's got what it takes to last the distance and see the fruits of his labour

He knew what he was getting into. He's got to let go a bit and be vulnerable. Admit some learning and some mistakes will be made along the way

Lol excuses …your hedging bets every post that you’re not potting him (but you are) and still suggesting you’re “on board” and I’m making excuses? Funny stuff
You’ve just written a post above denoting our issues run organisational deep (I don’t disagree)
We are asking Lyon to magically (some stupidly after 18 games) wave a wand and fix 12 years (since he was last here) of utter mediocre cr@p that’s been served to us by successive administrations and coaches ??
Even in 4 that’s a stretch
He’s also not the sane coach
To me he’s more football manage this time round he defers far more to his assistant coaches - he’ll make the hard calls (that’s why I back him) but I don’t think he’s as hands on as youthful Ross
I do know from club insiders he’s desperate for St Kilda success and in fact when approached (along with another high profile coach now on leave..) the distinction between them was Lyons hunger to see this club land a flag …but I don’t think that means he necessarily has to be in the box on that day
Anyhow he’s got immediate work to do starting this off season - get that wrong and he won’t last 4 years
I’m a Ross disciple….but I’m a zealout for a flag and beyond cult of personality at this club so if he ain’t it….wheel in the next ..

[SaintWiki]

I challenge your Messiah to get the job done Teflon. He's going to need to rely on Toce and his team along with Gubby to give him half a chance

I think he can, but the issue with our club (and with all clubs) has always been to be able to assemble a list capable of winning enough games to finish top 4...or at least to be close to top 4 and have the runs on the board in the home and away season against the top 4 teams.

That's going to take time. It means we need unity and strong leadership for the next 4-5 years.

Let's see if Ross and the club can get it done

I don’t think Lyon will get it done (I wish he would)
I suspect he’ll set the direction (he’s already set standards and some players clearly don’t like it…that’s ok) and he’ll have off to an assistant or whoever takes over

Why not?

Are you making excuses for him before it's harvest time?

Or...don't you think he's got what it takes to last the distance and see the fruits of his labour

He knew what he was getting into. He's got to let go a bit and be vulnerable. Admit some learning and some mistakes will be made along the way

Lol excuses …your hedging bets every post that you’re not potting him (but you are) and still suggesting you’re “on board” and I’m making excuses? Funny stuff
You’ve just written a post above denoting our issues run organisational deep (I don’t disagree)
We are asking Lyon to magically (some stupidly after 18 games) wave a wand and fix 12 years (since he was last here) of utter mediocre cr@p that’s been served to us by successive administrations and coaches ??
Even in 4 that’s a stretch
He’s also not the sane coach
To me he’s more football manage this time round he defers far more to his assistant coaches - he’ll make the hard calls (that’s why I back him) but I don’t think he’s as hands on as youthful Ross
I do know from club insiders he’s desperate for St Kilda success and in fact when approached (along with another high profile coach now on leave..) the distinction between them was Lyons hunger to see this club land a flag …but I don’t think that means he necessarily has to be in the box on that day
Anyhow he’s got immediate work to do starting this off season - get that wrong and he won’t last 4 years
I’m a Ross disciple….but I’m a zealout for a flag and beyond cult of personality at this club so if he ain’t it….wheel in the next ..

Fair enough and agree - but we are stuck with him now so don't see any need for me to be anything but positive. his appointment happened so fast but I didn't see any better seasoned coaches available at the time. I believe he will give it a crack as it's his last chance to work towards a Premiership after many years of coaching, even though his history has proved to be following the dollars. This is supposed to be a team assessment year in his plan and I haven't seen anything that sways from that position so far, although I am not privy to the inner sanctions.

[SaintPav]

Classy posts.

[SaintPav]

I challenge your Messiah to get the job done Teflon. He's going to need to rely on Toce and his team along with Gubby to give him half a chance

I think he can, but the issue with our club (and with all clubs) has always been to be able to assemble a list capable of winning enough games to finish top 4...or at least to be close to top 4 and have the runs on the board in the home and away season against the top 4 teams.

That's going to take time. It means we need unity and strong leadership for the next 4-5 years.

Let's see if Ross and the club can get it done

I don’t think Lyon will get it done (I wish he would)
I suspect he’ll set the direction (he’s already set standards and some players clearly don’t like it…that’s ok) and he’ll have off to an assistant or whoever takes over

Why not?

Are you making excuses for him before it's harvest time?

Or...don't you think he's got what it takes to last the distance and see the fruits of his labour

He knew what he was getting into. He's got to let go a bit and be vulnerable. Admit some learning and some mistakes will be made along the way

Sounds like someone has some doubts.

But it’s only the RTB fan boys that are allowed to have doubts about the current set up.

Hilarious.

Let’s watch this place go into meltdown on Sunday night IF they don’t get the job done.

Like I said previously, one does protest too much. Infantile behaviour.