Changing coaches has been a failure, IMHFO.

[B.M]

Are we saying he can only be successful if he has a better list?

I thought the coach was the issue last year?

Why couldn’t he use the list as a reason too?

[nostalgicsaint]

Are we saying he can only be successful if he has a better list?

I thought the coach was the issue last year?

Why couldn’t he use the list as a reason too?

Because he was in charge of it for 3 years and didn't manage expectations?

Ross Lyon has literally had zero influence on the list he is working with and also made sure everyone knew this wasn't a quick fix when he took the job.

If you can't see the difference, I doubt anyone can explain it to you.

[Teflon]

Are we saying he can only be successful if he has a better list?

I thought the coach was the issue last year?

Why couldn’t he use the list as a reason too?

After 3 years ?
Did you forget or just leave that bit out ???
Are you saying, without an off season to change the list and 18 games in, Lyon should’ve transformed the performance? (kinda ironic we are 6th..)
I thought you said coaches are overrated?
Is it the list?
What’s Lyons pass mark?
How many games before we should sack him?
Why did Jack Sinclair have 0 contested possessions on weekend and Hunter Clark in half a game have 9????
This asking questions and providing no answers is fun!

[Teflon]

Are we saying he can only be successful if he has a better list?

I thought the coach was the issue last year?

Why couldn’t he use the list as a reason too?

Because he was in charge of it for 3 years and didn't manage expectations?

Ross Lyon has literally had zero influence on the list he is working with and also made sure everyone knew this wasn't a quick fix when he took the job.

If you can't see the difference, I doubt anyone can explain it to you.

Lol you just beat me!

[Teflon]

BF post sums it up:

*****€

I think we're paying the price for misreading the list in 2019, by mid 2019 everyone was sure that Richo was the problem and thus Ratts coached the last three games and said that anyone that couldn't run and kick wouldn't get a game, someone at the top in the club obviously thought we were close all we needed to do was add some pixie dust and......... We drafted, Byrnes and Connolly and picked up Ryan Abbott as a delisted free. We traded for Hill, Howard, Rider, Jones and Butler. We then doubled own in 2020 with Crouch and Higgins, grabbed Frawley and McKernan on frees, drafted Allison and Highmore, Mason Wood as a preseason supplemental, midseason, max Heath and Cooper Sharman. With 20/20 hindsight they were wrong, we weren't that good. Nor were the players we brought in the answer, the best was Rider and he was crocked, Wood the next best then Higgens, hardly a record to be proud of.

Ok we rolled the dice we took a chance, we got it wrong.

So now we need a reset.

[asiu]

Posters are entitled to express their own opinions on footy matters without interference from the mods even with you running off to them every day ffs.

Reported for baiting


this is like a Twilight Zone episode

wtf

Stinger becomes a lefty , Teffers the tactic


how ... surreal

[asiu]

i'm glad i didn't say sack the coach


how embarrassment

[skeptic]

The way I figure it… people just hate Ross Lyon. And I totally get:
Unattractive playing style
Should have won a flag in 09-10
Lied when he walked out
The affair stuff
Bit of a smug guy

I get all of that…. Heck I agree with most of it.

But the reality is that none of that is relevant to what is happening now. It’s just not.

Anyone locked into the hate right now is jaded by that other stuff as opposed to actually having a measured understanding of what’s going on now and where RTB is taking things

Yes but feeding us bulls*** again!

But that’s not new or unique to RTB

[Yorkeys]

BF post sums it up:

*****€

I think we're paying the price for misreading the list in 2019, by mid 2019 everyone was sure that Richo was the problem and thus Ratts coached the last three games and said that anyone that couldn't run and kick wouldn't get a game, someone at the top in the club obviously thought we were close all we needed to do was add some pixie dust and......... We drafted, Byrnes and Connolly and picked up Ryan Abbott as a delisted free. We traded for Hill, Howard, Rider, Jones and Butler. We then doubled own in 2020 with Crouch and Higgins, grabbed Frawley and McKernan on frees, drafted Allison and Highmore, Mason Wood as a preseason supplemental, midseason, max Heath and Cooper Sharman. With 20/20 hindsight they were wrong, we weren't that good. Nor were the players we brought in the answer, the best was Rider and he was crocked, Wood the next best then Higgens, hardly a record to be proud of.

Ok we rolled the dice we took a chance, we got it wrong.

So now we need a reset.

If only two wrongs made a right.
And if wishes were fishes....

[D.B.Cooper]

This is just emotional, hysterical BS.

Now I’m no RTB fan boy… in fact, unlike the many who jumped on the bandwagon after RL left, forumites in this thread included… I fell off early 2010 and was critical even when we were making GFs.

That said… you cannot possibly make a measured and informed decision 18 rounds into the season. The man hasn’t even had a trade period yet or the opportunity to seriously adjust the list as he sees fit.

We started well and have fallen away. Given the injuries we’ve had and the youth coming through… calling what’s happened a failure is just out of step with reality.

Even comparisons with last season are illogical because it’s not entirely the same list/draw and RTB came on after the trade.
The earliest opportunity to really make a realistic assessment of where we are going will be after the draft + trade as that will give us an indication of what he’s properly seen as the changes to make and/or the direction take is going to be taken.

What I’m seeing right now is inconsistency, erratic play, injuries, youth, better fitness… the very definition of a complete mixed bag and transition.

Get a grip every one

Richo had 5 years and ppl were complaining when he was pushed
Ratts had 3 years and is heavily defended right now

RTB has had 18 games and the same ppl think it’s a disaster

This is emotional rubbish

I copied this as it is the most sensible and logical post in the thread.

I’m pissed off because we are s*** to watch and it’s as frustrating as hell, but we are 18 games into the tenure and we don’t have a big enough sample size to judge.

So what are your views on the coach saying he can't fix this, at least not until the next preseason. Isn't that raising a white flag .

Surely our super coach and his panel of assistants aren't bereft of ideas. They are paid heaps.

I have never seen such an inept unskilful performance as that dished up yesterday by a Saints side so the sample size is more than enough for me to at least have an opinion about how far we have regressed this season.

Not sure if you attended the match but I was on the Pirate Deck and there was a number of Saints fans in attendance and all were pretty pissed off.

Yes I’m frustrated and we are s*** to watch, but 18 games in to date in Lyon’s tenure.

I didn’t want GT sacked, though IMO he f***ed up royally by not getting the best and most balanced list I have ever seen at StKilda into a GF, let alone win one.

I never called for Richo or Ratts to be sacked and though I was a big supporter of Ross in his 07-11 era I didn’t actually want him back this time.

But he is back so I’d like to see him given at least the same time line as Ratts.

I personally don’t mind the honesty, he isn’t blowing smoke up our arses, he’s stating fact and the way forward.

To be honest your posting on this forum has always displayed your hatred toward “Ross, the tosser flosser” and i believe it hasn’t taken long for your
vitriol to spill through. FWIW I don’t have an issue with it, each to his/her own.

[desertsaint]

twas a hard watch live. just seemed bereft of any real desire, let alone polish.

[lewdogs]

Are we saying he can only be successful if he has a better list?

I thought the coach was the issue last year?

Why couldn’t he use the list as a reason too?

Jeez mate it's absolutely nauseating the way you say this over and over.

We. Get. It.

[Yorkeys]

Well for a while now the trend isn't good and the standard of basic play isn't good, even accepting the list is crap and the talent pool dry because of injuries.
I guess if nothing else its proved the list is crap and changing to a second hand coach is just a placebo - for those who might have thought otherwise (e.g. me, hopelessly sucked in).
Thing is where to now.
Having acknowledged the club cannot do ok or improve from where it is, does it just shuffle along, employ some people, maintain facilities, make up the numbers, remain inoffensive to all but naïve supporters. Celebrate social justice causes, the odd historical milestone. Exchange "gifts" with bemused opposition captains. Go through the draft rituals with the gleam in the eye of a prospector.(Oh bugger, clay again.)
There appears no fire or imagination in the coaches or the Board, just resigned hopelessness, vague references to exploration, assessment. Hand out the clip boards. Hope the team feels up to it game day. Next year, give Ross time, Godot is coming.
I don't get why Max has not improved the way he positions, Steele is now a shadow (injury?) and refuses to be an on field general, Sinclair is now a plodder with uncharacteristic clangers creeping in to his game, coaches let opposition coaches nullify Wilkie where he once was a spring board, why players seem to make such dumb moves/choices when in possession, worse than just tossing a coin about two options. I would guess they do ok gaming, but not in action play. Perhaps it because the list realises there is nothing to look forward to in the foreseeable and accept they are relatively untalented because they keep being told that and probably going to be moved on. Hard to get a group motivated/solidified as a team when there is no prize or encouragement apparent.
I am trying to understand why being a teenager precludes shrewd leading patterns and prevents professional footballers kicking to their advantage. I wonder if some of those skills are coached on the odd Tuesday or Thursday.

[saynta]

Are we saying he can only be successful if he has a better list?

I thought the coach was the issue last year?

Why couldn’t he use the list as a reason too?

Makes you want to laugh doesn't it, while Saturdays performance makes me want to cry.

Posters on here were last year screaming for Ratts head, while this year the very same posters are putting the blame squarely on the heads of the players.

What really sucks to me though is that the master coach seems to be agreeing with those posters.

I guess that is one way to quickly ensure you lose the players and ultimately your own head.

[saynta]

This is just emotional, hysterical BS.

Now I’m no RTB fan boy… in fact, unlike the many who jumped on the bandwagon after RL left, forumites in this thread included… I fell off early 2010 and was critical even when we were making GFs.

That said… you cannot possibly make a measured and informed decision 18 rounds into the season. The man hasn’t even had a trade period yet or the opportunity to seriously adjust the list as he sees fit.

We started well and have fallen away. Given the injuries we’ve had and the youth coming through… calling what’s happened a failure is just out of step with reality.

Even comparisons with last season are illogical because it’s not entirely the same list/draw and RTB came on after the trade.
The earliest opportunity to really make a realistic assessment of where we are going will be after the draft + trade as that will give us an indication of what he’s properly seen as the changes to make and/or the direction take is going to be taken.

What I’m seeing right now is inconsistency, erratic play, injuries, youth, better fitness… the very definition of a complete mixed bag and transition.

Get a grip every one

Richo had 5 years and ppl were complaining when he was pushed
Ratts had 3 years and is heavily defended right now

RTB has had 18 games and the same ppl think it’s a disaster

This is emotional rubbish

I copied this as it is the most sensible and logical post in the thread.

I’m pissed off because we are s*** to watch and it’s as frustrating as hell, but we are 18 games into the tenure and we don’t have a big enough sample size to judge.

So what are your views on the coach saying he can't fix this, at least not until the next preseason. Isn't that raising a white flag .

Surely our super coach and his panel of assistants aren't bereft of ideas. They are paid heaps.

I have never seen such an inept unskilful performance as that dished up yesterday by a Saints side so the sample size is more than enough for me to at least have an opinion about how far we have regressed this season.

Not sure if you attended the match but I was on the Pirate Deck and there was a number of Saints fans in attendance and all were pretty pissed off.

Yes I’m frustrated and we are s*** to watch, but 18 games in to date in Lyon’s tenure.

I didn’t want GT sacked, though IMO he f***ed up royally by not getting the best and most balanced list I have ever seen at StKilda into a GF, let alone win one.

I never called for Richo or Ratts to be sacked and though I was a big supporter of Ross in his 07-11 era I didn’t actually want him back this time.

But he is back so I’d like to see him given at least the same time line as Ratts.

I personally don’t mind the honesty, he isn’t blowing smoke up our arses, he’s stating fact and the way forward.

To be honest your posting on this forum has always displayed your hatred toward “Ross, the tosser flosser” and i believe it hasn’t taken long for your
vitriol to spill through. FWIW I don’t have an issue with it, each to his/her own.

[saynta]

Well for a while now the trend isn't good and the standard of basic play isn't good, even accepting the list is crap and the talent pool dry because of injuries.
I guess if nothing else its proved the list is crap and changing to a second hand coach is just a placebo - for those who might have thought otherwise (e.g. me, hopelessly sucked in).
Thing is where to now.
Having acknowledged the club cannot do ok or improve from where it is, does it just shuffle along, employ some people, maintain facilities, make up the numbers, remain inoffensive to all but naïve supporters. Celebrate social justice causes, the odd historical milestone. Exchange "gifts" with bemused opposition captains. Go through the draft rituals with the gleam in the eye of a prospector.(Oh bugger, clay again.)
There appears no fire or imagination in the coaches or the Board, just resigned hopelessness, vague references to exploration, assessment. Hand out the clip boards. Hope the team feels up to it game day. Next year, give Ross time, Godot is coming.
I don't get why Max has not improved the way he positions, Steele is now a shadow (injury?) and refuses to be an on field general, Sinclair is now a plodder with uncharacteristic clangers creeping in to his game, coaches let opposition coaches nullify Wilkie where he once was a spring board, why players seem to make such dumb moves/choices when in possession, worse than just tossing a coin about two options. I would guess they do ok gaming, but not in action play. Perhaps it because the list realises there is nothing to look forward to in the foreseeable and accept they are relatively untalented because they keep being told that and probably going to be moved on. Hard to get a group motivated/solidified as a team when there is no prize or encouragement apparent.
I am trying to understand why being a teenager precludes shrewd leading patterns and prevents professional footballers kicking to their advantage. I wonder if some of those skills are coached on the odd Tuesday or Thursday.

Yep, all valid comments . When realty bites it bites hard and f****** well hurts. A very insightful post. Thanks.

[CURLY]

When he has a reasonable injury list we can judge.

[Sanctorum]

Are we saying he can only be successful if he has a better list?

I thought the coach was the issue last year?

Why couldn’t he use the list as a reason too?

Makes you want to laugh doesn't it, while Saturdays performance makes me want to cry.

Posters on here were last year screaming for Ratts head, while this year the very same posters are putting the blame squarely on the heads of the players.

What really sucks to me though is that the master coach seems to be agreeing with those posters.

I guess that is one way to quickly ensure you lose the players and ultimately your own head.

For what it's worth saynta I never at any time called for Ratten to be replaced last year and I recall several spats on here with Teflon when I defended Ratts, saying that the problem was the list rather than the coach, and that unfortunately remains the main problem this year as well.

When the major review by the board came to the conclusion post season that Ratten was not the right man to turn the club's fortunes around and lead the team to the Promised Land, I accepted their judgment on face value for the very good reason that as an ordinary supporter I was hardly in a position to know all the data on the basis of which they decided to make this really difficult decision.

Opting to offer the job to Ross Lyon, following rigorous interviews, was also a matter on which I had no inside informaton, and again I was happy to entrust the board to do what is in the best interests of the club, its major sponsors, coteries and not least supporters.

Any ill-feeling that I may have harboured against the manner in which Lyon walked out after 2011 and moved to Fremantle became inconsequential in light of the reality that the decision had been made and there was no point agonising on it, pass that bouncer through to the keeper.

I guess all of this depends on how each one of us deals with these sorts of highly contentious issues.

In my early working life I very quickly came to understand that I would be better off letting bygones be bygones and not to dwell on setbacks or disappointments and most of all not to bear grudges - maybe being a Saints supporter was instrumental in developing that philosophy!!

[saynta]

Are we saying he can only be successful if he has a better list?

I thought the coach was the issue last year?

Why couldn’t he use the list as a reason too?

Makes you want to laugh doesn't it, while Saturdays performance makes me want to cry.

Posters on here were last year screaming for Ratts head, while this year the very same posters are putting the blame squarely on the heads of the players.

What really sucks to me though is that the master coach seems to be agreeing with those posters.

I guess that is one way to quickly ensure you lose the players and ultimately your own head.

For what it's worth saynta I never at any time called for Ratten to be replaced last year and I recall several spats on here with Teflon when I defended Ratts, saying that the problem was the list rather than the coach, and that unfortunately remains the main problem this year as well.

When the major review by the board came to the conclusion post season that Ratten was not the right man to turn the club's fortunes around and lead the team to the Promised Land, I accepted their judgment on face value for the very good reason that as an ordinary supporter I was hardly in a position to know all the data on the basis of which they decided to make this really difficult decision.

Opting to offer the job to Ross Lyon, following rigorous interviews, was also a matter on which I had no inside informaton, and again I was happy to entrust the board to do what is in the best interests of the club, its major sponsors, coteries and not least supporters.

Any ill-feeling that I may have harboured against the manner in which Lyon walked out after 2011 and moved to Fremantle became inconsequential in light of the reality that the decision had been made and there was no point agonising on it, pass that bouncer through to the keeper.

I guess all of this depends on how each one of us deals with these sorts of highly contentious issues.

In my early working life I very quickly came to understand that I would be better off letting bygones be bygones and not to dwell on setbacks or disappointments and most of all not to bear grudges - maybe being a Saints supporter was instrumental in developing that philosophy!!

Thanks for that mate.

I went to the gym this morning where a mate, a Carlton supporter no less, said that our coach had been very negative lately and that the saints had dropped off significantly over the past 10 weeks.

Bit like the old chicken and egg question IMHO.

To me, the coach was the chicken and came first telling the team, the egg, basically suggesting to them and anyone else who would listen that we had a terrible list and that changes were coming. Bit like a number of posters on here actually.

Seems like the players have come to accept that and are now playing accordingly.

[samoht]

If something goes awry, it's always the coach's fault at St Kilda.
This is the constant you can rely on.

And, we keep upgrading them, so that we have the best going around at all times.
(Richo was also an upgrade on the previous coach who was an upgrade on the one prior, and so on and so forth, ad infinitum).

So the coaches are getting better and better with each iteration.

And we have premierships galore to show for it - which in turn underlines how important the coach is.
Hooray for St Kilda.

[Teflon]

Well for a while now the trend isn't good and the standard of basic play isn't good, even accepting the list is crap and the talent pool dry because of injuries.
I guess if nothing else its proved the list is crap and changing to a second hand coach is just a placebo - for those who might have thought otherwise (e.g. me, hopelessly sucked in).
Thing is where to now.
Having acknowledged the club cannot do ok or improve from where it is, does it just shuffle along, employ some people, maintain facilities, make up the numbers, remain inoffensive to all but naïve supporters. Celebrate social justice causes, the odd historical milestone. Exchange "gifts" with bemused opposition captains. Go through the draft rituals with the gleam in the eye of a prospector.(Oh bugger, clay again.)
There appears no fire or imagination in the coaches or the Board, just resigned hopelessness, vague references to exploration, assessment. Hand out the clip boards. Hope the team feels up to it game day. Next year, give Ross time, Godot is coming.
I don't get why Max has not improved the way he positions, Steele is now a shadow (injury?) and refuses to be an on field general, Sinclair is now a plodder with uncharacteristic clangers creeping in to his game, coaches let opposition coaches nullify Wilkie where he once was a spring board, why players seem to make such dumb moves/choices when in possession, worse than just tossing a coin about two options. I would guess they do ok gaming, but not in action play. Perhaps it because the list realises there is nothing to look forward to in the foreseeable and accept they are relatively untalented because they keep being told that and probably going to be moved on. Hard to get a group motivated/solidified as a team when there is no prize or encouragement apparent.
I am trying to understand why being a teenager precludes shrewd leading patterns and prevents professional footballers kicking to their advantage. I wonder if some of those skills are coached on the odd Tuesday or Thursday.

Ok it’s clear now you’re off them. All good.
Max has been coached by Lyon in …3 -4 games this year?? Yet you don’t get why he hasn’t already changed the way he plays?? Ok
Look how about ask why Lyon hasn’t already culled the list while you’re at it with unreasonable fantasy requests?
I mean really???? It has to be spelt out?
This place astounds me sometimes..
18 games in….wow

[Sanctorum]

Thanks for that mate.

I went to the gym this morning where a mate, a Carlton supporter no less, said that our coach had been very negative lately and that the saints had dropped off significantly over the past 10 weeks.

Bit like the old chicken and egg question IMHO.

To me, the coach was the chicken and came first telling the team, the egg, basically suggesting to them and anyone else who would listen that we had a terrible list and that changes were coming. Bit like a number of posters on here actually.

Seems like the players have come to accept that and are now playing accordingly.

That's debatable, I doubt the players regard the St Kilda's list as anything but average, they know how players are rated even without hearing and reading that being expressed in the media.

Early in the season Wilkie commented that the boys were really responding well to the new coaching regime, it was a distinct upgrade from 2022.

This stands to reason because even if you disagree in principle with Lyon's appointment, it is abundantly clear that he is a far more successful and highly respected coach than his predecessors.

Supporters who regularly attend training sessions have confirmed that these are far more structured and hard working than last year.

It's also pertinent to note that in the game against Melbourne the previous week the team played a very strong brand of football, they took off like a rocket in the first quarter and every commentator that covered the game said that if not for the 3 injuries to key players the Saints may well have won.

The lethargic performance at Carrara on Saturday was uncharacteristic and I'm in no doubt that the players will be addressing that this week and it was good to hear Lyon gave an honest appraisal of the players post match rather than call it another mulligan.

I also again refer to my previous remarks about the 180 degree turnaround by the Carlton players when their team's chances this year were virtually written off. Reports in the media today said that the players went away on a camp, a bonding session, when they had a bye and had brutal conversations about individual performances.

While not wishing to prolong the endless debate about Lyon's controversial departure in 2011, perchance I found a story about an interview he had with Triple M last year, which gives his side of that story:

https://www.triplem.com.au/story/ross-l ... 011-207635

[Teflon]

Thanks for that mate.

I went to the gym this morning where a mate, a Carlton supporter no less, said that our coach had been very negative lately and that the saints had dropped off significantly over the past 10 weeks.

Bit like the old chicken and egg question IMHO.

To me, the coach was the chicken and came first telling the team, the egg, basically suggesting to them and anyone else who would listen that we had a terrible list and that changes were coming. Bit like a number of posters on here actually.

Seems like the players have come to accept that and are now playing accordingly.

That's debatable, I doubt the players regard the St Kilda's list as anything but average, they know how players are rated even without hearing and reading that being expressed in the media.

Early in the season Wilkie commented that the boys were really responding well to the new coaching regime, it was a distinct upgrade from 2022.

This stands to reason because even if you disagree in principle with Lyon's appointment, it is abundantly clear that he is a far more successful and highly respected coach than his predecessors.

Supporters who regularly attend training sessions have confirmed that these are far more structured and hard working than last year.

It's also pertinent to note that in the game against Melbourne the previous week the team played a very strong brand of football, they took off like a rocket in the first quarter and every commentator that covered the game said that if not for the 3 injuries to key players the Saints may well have won.

The lethargic performance at Carrara on Saturday was uncharacteristic and I'm in no doubt that the players will be addressing that this week and it was good to hear Lyon gave an honest appraisal of the players post match rather than call it another mulligan.

I also again refer to my previous remarks about the 180 degree turnaround by the Carlton players when their team's chances this year were virtually written off. Reports in the media today said that the players went away on a camp, a bonding session, when they had a bye and had brutal conversations about individual performances.

While not wishing to prolong the endless debate about Lyon's controversial departure in 2011, perchance I found a story about an interview he had with Triple M last year, which gives his side of that story:

https://www.triplem.com.au/story/ross-l ... 011-207635

We’ll said
Players know exactly where they stand with Lyon - internally they appreciate the honesty
Will it ruffle some feathers? Yes will sone move on cause they don’t like it? Yes
Absolutely listen to those who go to training and know what they see last year to this year - light years ahead in standards and professionalism….light years

[whiskers3614]

Thanks for that mate.

I went to the gym this morning where a mate, a Carlton supporter no less, said that our coach had been very negative lately and that the saints had dropped off significantly over the past 10 weeks.

Bit like the old chicken and egg question IMHO.

To me, the coach was the chicken and came first telling the team, the egg, basically suggesting to them and anyone else who would listen that we had a terrible list and that changes were coming. Bit like a number of posters on here actually.

Seems like the players have come to accept that and are now playing accordingly.

That's debatable, I doubt the players regard the St Kilda's list as anything but average, they know how players are rated even without hearing and reading that being expressed in the media.

Early in the season Wilkie commented that the boys were really responding well to the new coaching regime, it was a distinct upgrade from 2022.

This stands to reason because even if you disagree in principle with Lyon's appointment, it is abundantly clear that he is a far more successful and highly respected coach than his predecessors.

Supporters who regularly attend training sessions have confirmed that these are far more structured and hard working than last year.

It's also pertinent to note that in the game against Melbourne the previous week the team played a very strong brand of football, they took off like a rocket in the first quarter and every commentator that covered the game said that if not for the 3 injuries to key players the Saints may well have won.

The lethargic performance at Carrara on Saturday was uncharacteristic and I'm in no doubt that the players will be addressing that this week and it was good to hear Lyon gave an honest appraisal of the players post match rather than call it another mulligan.

I also again refer to my previous remarks about the 180 degree turnaround by the Carlton players when their team's chances this year were virtually written off. Reports in the media today said that the players went away on a camp, a bonding session, when they had a bye and had brutal conversations about individual performances.

While not wishing to prolong the endless debate about Lyon's controversial departure in 2011, perchance I found a story about an interview he had with Triple M last year, which gives his side of that story:

https://www.triplem.com.au/story/ross-l ... 011-207635

We’ll said
Players know exactly where they stand with Lyon - internally they appreciate the honesty
Will it ruffle some feathers? Yes will sone move on cause they don’t like it? Yes
Absolutely listen to those who go to training and know what they see last year to this year - light years ahead in standards and professionalism….light years

Not being rude but can you stop saying we'll when you mean WELL?
Almost as annoying as Clark(no E)!

[meher baba]

I've refrained from commenting on this thread until now.

I will perhaps surprise some by coming in on the side of Lyon as coach. I think, notwithstanding some disappointing losses, we are still playing better than we did last year. After the bye last year, we seemed to lose all confidence and our midfield became a sort of freeway through which our opponents danced happily towards their forward 50.

Apart from the Adelaide game and for some of the Eagles game, we have been a far tougher proposition defensively for our opponents this year than in 2022. Most of our losses this year have come about through us blowing our attacking opportunities more than through poor defence. And it's pretty understandable that we have struggled in attack given that our two most dangerous marking forwards in King and Membrey have missed most of our games.

Our defence has been good in almost every game, as have our outside players. Our inside mids are a fairly weak contingent when Steele is absent/injured, but they've struggled hard and Crouch has been heroic in some games.

Despite all the talk of the need for major a clean out of our list, all we need to improve significantly IMO is a fit forward contingent amd a couple of higher quality inside mids. It's possible that we already have the latter in the form of Windy and Owens when they are fully matured.

Lyon and his team have got us almost playing the right kind of footy. And, unlike Ratts in the second half of 2022, he continues to exude confidence. I was frustrated watching the game on Saturday, but I'm still glad Lyon is there.