Match Thread Saints v Demons Round 17 2023

[whiskers3614]

It may have been 19-15 tonight but it should have been 30-15. Do you support the Saints or the umpires?

Funnily enough you can both support the Saints AND be realistic about the umpiring.

In all fairness Dud I am normally totally on your side but there were a couple in the last quarter that I couldn’t understand at all.
The non Htb against Melbourne player and the blatant push in the back not paid to Caminiti.

[whiskers3614]

It may have been 19-15 tonight but it should have been 30-15. Do you support the Saints or the umpires?

Funnily enough you can both support the Saints AND be realistic about the umpiring.

In all fairness Dud I am normally totally on your side but there were a couple in the last quarter that I couldn’t understand at all.
The non Htb against Melbourne player and the blatant push in the back not paid to Caminiti.

[The_Dud]

It may have been 19-15 tonight but it should have been 30-15. Do you support the Saints or the umpires?

Funnily enough you can both support the Saints AND be realistic about the umpiring.

In all fairness Dud I am normally totally on your side but there were a couple in the last quarter that I couldn’t understand at all.
The non Htb against Melbourne player and the blatant push in the back not paid to Caminiti.

Yep, we cop bad calls, but so does everyone else.

It’s when people complain about decisions like the Gresh free near the end, can’t get a more blatant free than that, and it just shows where their head is really at.

[SaintJohn1956]

Grundy grabs opponents and throws them out the way and it's not a free kick

[SinCitySainter]

The umpires did not cost us the game, the coaching did. I am sorry but I cannot believe that it is all on the players that we constantly go to the area 30 out directly in front. It must be a deliberate ploy by the coaching staff. We do it every game and every game the opposition's intercept half backs tear us a new one. The coach's are allowing this to happen and in fact seem to be encouraging it.
To make matters worse not only do we play the most ugly football in the league but we play a style that requires a team full of out and out stars to work. Last time Lyon was here he turned a team of brilliant skilled high scoring and exciting footballers into the ugliest most unentertaining workman like team in the comp. It nearly worked but didn't. We are now the ugly workman like team but we don't have the stars to push us over the top.
I sincerely hope he is capable of building a team because let's be honest he has never shown a capacity to do it before. I fear we have a few years of unwatchable football before Basset realizes the emperor really does have no clothes.

[Teflon]

We lose our KP Gun Forward 30 seconds in
Another tall defender who we swing forward
A mid ….who we don’t have plenty of….
We have Steele 6 times into 50 miss targets
We have Marshall twice in set shot range try a “chip” set up kick with May etc just waiting in the hole …
We have Brad Crouch direct in front try to pass to someone in a worse position…and not take the shot
We miss goals from 15 meters out directly in front
We get no output from Butler Gresham Pou Windy
We have players constantly dump kick into 50

And it’s the coaching groups fault?

Just wow

[bobmurray]

I read the Big Footy thread, they think Hammer is a world beater, what does the forum think ?:

I think he has a way to go to make it.

[Teflon]

I read the Big Footy thread, they think Hammer is a world beater, what does the forum think ?:

I think he has a way to go to make it.

I thought he had a mare tonight
Look he’s a kid as Lyon said …he needs to muscle up and he will
But world beater now?
No… way to go yet

[bigcarl]

I think there’s something to work with Caminiti. Has ability, is aggressive and loves a contest.

But yes, has a way to go as you’d expect from a 19-year-old KPF who virtually walked in off the street and has never done a proper pre-season.

Needs games and time.

[B.M]

The coach might want to do something about the forward structure and system of moving the ball i50

It was pathetic - continuing to kick the ball to 30m out - direct to May - was absolutely bizarre - we did it 3 times from guys pretending to have a shot from just outside 50 (Marshall twice in 30 secs)

Dumb footy - there is no system entering the 50

[CQ SAINT]

The coach might want to do something about the forward structure and system of moving the ball i50

It was pathetic - continuing to kick the ball to 30m out - direct to May - was absolutely bizarre - we did it 3 times from guys pretending to have a shot from just outside 50 (Marshall twice in 30 secs)

Dumb footy - there is no system entering the 50

76 intercept marks each.
75 turnovers each.
Marshall intercepting in the middle of the ground and banging it straight back in (7 times) while all our blokes are running at him from Melbourne's last rebound.
Up by 6 in inside 50's and 15 marks taken inside 50 but only one of our top inside 50 deliverers gets a goal assist.

It's dumb alright.

[CQ SAINT]

Before you go off on another tangent, our biggest ball winners are not very smart, they panic alot, they handball to players under pressure alot and they are not good kicks as a result.. Simple really.

[B.M]

Our biggest ball winner was Sinclair and Wanganeen Milera

Both hi IQ footballers with good disposal

[CQ SAINT]

Our biggest ball winner was Sinclair and Wanganeen Milera

Both hi IQ footballers with good disposal

Wanganeen 64% on the defensive side. 6 IF 3 SI 0 GA
Sinclair 67% on the defensive side 4 IF 6SI 0 GA.

Not the biggest offenders by a long stretch.

Rowan Marshal was terrific, How many intercept marks did he take across the middle today. He seemed really keen to bang that ball in long too. Then gets shots from long range and chips in. Hmmm.

It's almost just like the Melbournes defense were kicking it to him deliberately so May and him could play kick to kick while there outside runners watched our small forwards running in and out of our fifty, defend, attack, defend, attack. Then they force stoppage and execute attack to small and medium leading forwards. Qq

[Sainter_Dad]

It may have been 19-15 tonight but it should have been 30-15. Do you support the Saints or the umpires?

Funnily enough you can both support the Saints AND be realistic about the umpiring.

You ARE NOT realistic about the umpires. You do not
- accept that they make bad decisions
- understand the where and when free kicks are paid is important
- attack the man having a 'vent' moment
- offer no alternative to a clearly incorrect decision

You list frees for and against - do you not see that decisions NOT paid have a massive influence and that an incorrect free paid directly in front of goal can be disheartening - both to player AND supporter????

I do not think that umpires cheat - nor do I think that our players cheat to lose - but seriously - accept the fact that Umpires today are incompetent and will remain so until they are:
- employed full time
- made accountable for their decisions
- given clear instructions which lead to consistency

Do you think that the following decisions were correct?
- 50 metre after the advantage call
- Call against Owens for sliding tackle (now called below the knees)
- Non Call for Caminiti in the back
- Non 50 for Windhager being tackled from behind after taking a mark (I agree that if a player is in the protected area and does nothing to impact the play it should not be called - but tackling a player STRAIGHT after play on is called - you need to have a chance to play on)

In your reliance upon the final free kick count as your determining factor you are like the person who loses their mind because youth crime has risen by 300% from 3 to 9 yet accepts that adult crime is under control because it has only gone up 10% from 1,000 to 1,100. How many times have you seen a clear mark paid as a free - where is the benefit to that?? We need stats on frees for and against in 50/50 ground ball gets etc - they tell the true story of how the game is umpired.

And I think last night should see these umpires go to the country - but they wont because incompetence breeds incompetence.

[Sainter_Dad]

I think there’s something to work with Caminiti. Has ability, is aggressive and loves a contest.

But yes, has a way to go as you’d expect from a 19-year-old KPF who virtually walked in off the street and has never done a proper pre-season.

Needs games and time.

The Hammer has not been the same since he was sanctioned for a punch in response to a racial slur (allegedly). The guy flopped to ground and concussed himself - but results drive reports so he was suspended. Hard to determine how far to push your aggression after that.

Unfortunately, this is the result

[Saint2]

Can't win a game of footy against a top team when you have significant injuries during a game- it unsettles everything. The guys showed a lot of spirit and good signs, but you cant expect young first year players to get us over the line, though Hammer and Pou will be good over the next couple of seasons as their bodies mature. Lyon does need to fix the work between the midfield and half forward with forward entries. We really need a good CHF.

[Sainter_Dad]

Can't win a game of footy against a top team when you have significant injuries during a game- it unsettles everything. The guys showed a lot of spirit and good signs, but you cant expect young first year players to get us over the line, though Hammer and Pou will be good over the next couple of seasons as their bodies mature. Lyon does need to fix the work between the midfield and half forward with forward entries. We really need a good CHF.

I know that you don't sacrifice a Full Forward to fill CHF - but I would seriously use King as CHF and Caminiti as FF for a trial - take the pressure off King - allow him to play a more lead up role without 3 players on him - allow him the freedom of 45 - 50 metre shots at goal - and seriously - MAKE IT HAMMER TIME - the guy has been soft since being suspended - get in his ear and tell him it was an unfortunate incident - then let him do what he does best - HE IS A ROOSTER who has had his wings clipped.

[silverhalo]

Steven May is an interesting character.

Killed us tonight

Only 190cms tall.
But he marks everything.

Not a great person but a top footballer, has to be said.
There has got be something wrong with our delivery into the forward line, Harris Andrews was absolutely superb a few weeks ago as well. All we do is bomb it into the forward line and then these guys that just mark everything in sight always win out - lower the eyes and look for someone on a lead

[Saint2]

If I compare the sides around us and above us, it is really obvious in those teams how goals are generated with good setups around the middle of the ground and across half forward- no unnecessary long kicks to no-one in particular. I think Lyon has an issue with this kind of thing, and the result is we can't kick bigger scores.
We need more work on our short attacking game which was there in the first 4 or 5 games, but has gone missing since- the game against North seemed to show us up when they played a fast moving short game and nearly brought us undone, then getting clobbered by the Crows. Lyon needs to get back to a more attacking game, as think coaching-wise, he has gone into his shell a bit.