Jekyll n Hyde

[Teflon]

Watching the Eagles game again the stark difference between Q2 then Q3 is just astounding
Why?
The forward of centre push up pressure of the 3rd was impressive
As a result our forward 50 looked dangerous….unpredictable but the game was effectively played in centre or forward centre for us
I also didn’t fully appreciate Windhagers 3rd term…his ability with super smart hands to release players into space was important
We also manage to break even from centre square
The ball went inside 50 in our better ball users hands …Sinclair Hill…very important
Oh and anyone saying Crouch’s in tight 16 tackles weren’t instrumental in getting a spluttering midfield ball going our way has rocks in their head
Still….overall quite amazing this side plays such different brand of footy in the sane game …between the ears???
We are not most talented as we know but the effort differential is quite amazing

[B.M]

That’s for the coaches to work out

How to prepare best

How to strategise best

How to motivate best

How to adapt to opposition best

If a team is inconsistent- it means it is capable - sustaining capability is done through leadership

[Scollop]

Watching the Eagles game again the stark difference between Q2 then Q3 is just astounding
Why?
The forward of centre push up pressure of the 3rd was impressive
As a result our forward 50 looked dangerous….unpredictable but the game was effectively played in centre or forward centre for us
I also didn’t fully appreciate Windhagers 3rd term…his ability with super smart hands to release players into space was important
We also manage to break even from centre square
The ball went inside 50 in our better ball users hands …Sinclair Hill…very important
Oh and anyone saying Crouch’s in tight 16 tackles weren’t instrumental in getting a spluttering midfield ball going our way has rocks in their head
Still….overall quite amazing this side plays such different brand of footy in the sane game …between the ears???
We are not most talented as we know but the effort differential is quite amazing

Crouch was virtually absent in the second half of the game and although he does work hard, I don't think his work in the first half warrants mention in your post ... what's the point except to highlight you have nfi.

In a thread titled "Jekyll n Hyde" where you are highlighting the 'astounding' difference between 2nd. Q and 3rd. Q, you single out Brad Crouch for his work over the course of the entire game.

Five minutes into the third quarter, Nick Dal Santo mentions how many touches Crouch has had and also how many tackles. It was 13 tackles!!

So Crouch's already had 13 tackles and the Saints are still 3 goals down with 14 minutes to play in Q3.

Most of his tackles are in stoppage situations where the opposition is virtually stationary and WCE players are happy to lock it in because they don't have options to dish it off. Crouch isn't changing the momentum of the play. He's certainly not first to the footy.

Also, significantly: that means he only had a handful of tackles for the rest of the match. He wasn't the reason we won the game.

One other thing. You said 'we manage to break even from centre square'. Righto...how many centre clearances did Crouch have for the match? Answer= zero!!

Most innacurate statement of the year; "Crouch’s in tight 16 tackles were instrumental in getting a spluttering midfield ball going our way" ...Righto! That's how the 2 coaches saw it

[Teflon]

That’s for the coaches to work out

How to prepare best

How to strategise best

How to motivate best

How to adapt to opposition best

If a team is inconsistent- it means it is capable - sustaining capability is done through leadership

Coaches work out a game plan that can take you there
At its best we have shown that game plan stands up against good sides
Players and on field leaders lead the execution of that on field
If they move away from the game plan the coaches need to work out why
But ultimately it’s the players and on field leaders who dictate proper execution ie poor decision making, skill error that’s on them

[Teflon]

Watching the Eagles game again the stark difference between Q2 then Q3 is just astounding
Why?
The forward of centre push up pressure of the 3rd was impressive
As a result our forward 50 looked dangerous….unpredictable but the game was effectively played in centre or forward centre for us
I also didn’t fully appreciate Windhagers 3rd term…his ability with super smart hands to release players into space was important
We also manage to break even from centre square
The ball went inside 50 in our better ball users hands …Sinclair Hill…very important
Oh and anyone saying Crouch’s in tight 16 tackles weren’t instrumental in getting a spluttering midfield ball going our way has rocks in their head
Still….overall quite amazing this side plays such different brand of footy in the sane game …between the ears???
We are not most talented as we know but the effort differential is quite amazing

Crouch was virtually absent in the second half of the game and although he does work hard, I don't think his work in the first half warrants mention in your post ... what's the point except to highlight you have nfi.

In a thread titled "Jekyll n Hyde" where you are highlighting the 'astounding' difference between 2nd. Q and 3rd. Q, you single out Brad Crouch for his work over the course of the entire game.

Five minutes into the third quarter, Nick Dal Santo mentions how many touches Crouch has had and also how many tackles. It was 13 tackles!!

So Crouch's already had 13 tackles and the Saints are still 3 goals down with 14 minutes to play in Q3.

Most of his tackles are in stoppage situations where the opposition is virtually stationary and WCE players are happy to lock it in because they don't have options to dish it off. Crouch isn't changing the momentum of the play. He's certainly not first to the footy.

Also, significantly: that means he only had a handful of tackles for the rest of the match. He wasn't the reason we won the game.

One other thing. You said 'we manage to break even from centre square'. Righto...how many centre clearances did Crouch have for the match? Answer= zero!!

Most innacurate statement of the year; "Crouch’s in tight 16 tackles were instrumental in getting a spluttering midfield ball going our way" ...Righto! That's how the 2 coaches saw it

Once again you’re inaccurate with what’s actually been said like you were misquoting Lyon out of his presser
You do it to make half baked points that are irrelevant
Show me WHERE I said Brad Crouch was the reason we won the game??? Do quote me I encourage you too
It’s like trying to discuss footy with a child
In the coaching you accused Lyon of making admitting to changing his game plan …and you therefore drew some weird long bow conclusion that was also admission of game plan failure….
When CQ pointed out the rest of the sentence from Lyon was about evening up numbers in response to Eagles coaching ..(actually a good move) you admit you left that but out??? WTF
Context is important - leaving it out doesn’t strengthen your arguments it just makes them weaker

[maverick]

Maybe, just maybe we got the ball more often in the 2nd half meaning we didn’t have the same need to tackle and maybe the ball was on the outside a little more??!

[Scollop]

We definitely controlled the footy. Our possessions differential went from -7 in the second quarter, to +17 in the third. In pure numbers we had 85 disposals in the 2nd and we jumped up to 104 disposals in the 3rd.

Tackle numbers and inside 50’s were interesting for the first half. They were pretty much even. West Coast certainly came to play. They were also more efficient when going inside 50 in the first half.

In the 3rd quarter we played a more attacking game. We had 16 x i50’s and they only had 7. Both teams had trouble scoring in the last quarter. After kicking 6 in the 3rd we only managed 1-6 in the last while WC only scored 3 behinds.

[saynta]

We tired the weagles out before half time.

[MC Gusto]

Windy was very important in the come back - agree with the OP

[Banger9798]

Windy starting to prove himself in the guts.

Him and Owens should be shoulder to shoulder in there.

[Scollop]

That's the new theme song that'll be blaring from the loudspeakers at Marvel

"Shoulder to shoulder, we're gonna stand
We're gonna fight to the very last man
Can't be defeated, don't know the word
Shoulder to shoulder, we'll fight the world"

[Trev from the Bush]

Watching the Eagles game again the stark difference between Q2 then Q3 is just astounding
Why?
The forward of centre push up pressure of the 3rd was impressive
As a result our forward 50 looked dangerous….unpredictable but the game was effectively played in centre or forward centre for us
I also didn’t fully appreciate Windhagers 3rd term…his ability with super smart hands to release players into space was important
We also manage to break even from centre square
The ball went inside 50 in our better ball users hands …Sinclair Hill…very important
Oh and anyone saying Crouch’s in tight 16 tackles weren’t instrumental in getting a spluttering midfield ball going our way has rocks in their head
Still….overall quite amazing this side plays such different brand of footy in the sane game …between the ears???
We are not most talented as we know but the effort differential is quite amazing

Good observations. I think Windy had 10 possessions in the third quarter, easy to go unnoticed as they were so slick. Gresh, who I had open clearance papers ready for him to sign at half-time, really got on his bike. I swear I even saw him look for one of our players before he kicked. Butler, given the ball was getting into our forward line, got busy and his pressure kept it in there. Sincs' kicking in the first half was abysmal but he rectified that and Hill really busted his gut.

[Templar]

Gresh, who I had open clearance papers ready for him to sign at half-time, really got on his bike. I swear I even saw him look for one of our players before he kicked.

That was rather astonishing!

[Sanctorum]

Maybe, just maybe we got the ball more often in the 2nd half meaning we didn’t have the same need to tackle and maybe the ball was on the outside a little more??!

That was my conclusion as well after watching the replay today, in the first half the Eagles dominated clearances and forced St Kilda to go on the back foot and tackle hard to stop the flow, after half time the Saints started to win clearances and played a more daring brand of football which enabled the runners to get the ball into the forward line repeatedly. Marshall was really good at stoppages and Windhager showed that he is going to be a classy player, quick hands and finds his target.

If Zak Jones is fit (he had a good game in the seconds) I'd be tempted to bring him in for Ross to provide extra drive against Melbourne.

[B.M]

You don’t think Byrnes spot is in question?

And Phillipou - who is getting gifted games

[Teflon]

Maybe, just maybe we got the ball more often in the 2nd half meaning we didn’t have the same need to tackle and maybe the ball was on the outside a little more??!

That was my conclusion as well after watching the replay today, in the first half the Eagles dominated clearances and forced St Kilda to go on the back foot and tackle hard to stop the flow, after half time the Saints started to win clearances and played a more daring brand of football which enabled the runners to get the ball into the forward line repeatedly. Marshall was really good at stoppages and Windhager showed that he is going to be a classy player, quick hands and finds his target.

If Zak Jones is fit (he had a good game in the seconds) I'd be tempted to bring him in for Ross to provide extra drive against Melbourne.

I think the question is why did we get the ball more in second half?
I think Lyon nailed it - Dal Santo made a very telling comment early in the 3rd …when we boxed in Hurn trying to bring it out of defence (they walked it out Q1/Q2) and he turned it over….Dal said that’s a good sign ….that push up pressure wasn’t there earlier
We let them easily possess the ball…..as Ross said has we continued to play like that….we’d have lost the game
That to me is vital to us getting back to where we want to be
Must not go into our shell
Get stuck in the back half
Keep that forward centre pressure up it helps our forward 50 entries too
Windy a keeper

[Trev from the Bush]

Gresh, who I had open clearance papers ready for him to sign at half-time, really got on his bike. I swear I even saw him look for one of our players before he kicked.

That was rather astonishing!

I also saw Haley's comet back in 1986. That's two once-in-a- lifetime sightings to add to my watching St Kilda win the 1966 Premiership!

What a dull life I've had.

[Teflon]

Watching the Eagles game again the stark difference between Q2 then Q3 is just astounding
Why?
The forward of centre push up pressure of the 3rd was impressive
As a result our forward 50 looked dangerous….unpredictable but the game was effectively played in centre or forward centre for us
I also didn’t fully appreciate Windhagers 3rd term…his ability with super smart hands to release players into space was important
We also manage to break even from centre square
The ball went inside 50 in our better ball users hands …Sinclair Hill…very important
Oh and anyone saying Crouch’s in tight 16 tackles weren’t instrumental in getting a spluttering midfield ball going our way has rocks in their head
Still….overall quite amazing this side plays such different brand of footy in the sane game …between the ears???
We are not most talented as we know but the effort differential is quite amazing

Crouch was virtually absent in the second half of the game and although he does work hard, I don't think his work in the first half warrants mention in your post ... what's the point except to highlight you have nfi.

In a thread titled "Jekyll n Hyde" where you are highlighting the 'astounding' difference between 2nd. Q and 3rd. Q, you single out Brad Crouch for his work over the course of the entire game.

Five minutes into the third quarter, Nick Dal Santo mentions how many touches Crouch has had and also how many tackles. It was 13 tackles!!

So Crouch's already had 13 tackles and the Saints are still 3 goals down with 14 minutes to play in Q3.

Most of his tackles are in stoppage situations where the opposition is virtually stationary and WCE players are happy to lock it in because they don't have options to dish it off. Crouch isn't changing the momentum of the play. He's certainly not first to the footy.

Also, significantly: that means he only had a handful of tackles for the rest of the match. He wasn't the reason we won the game.

One other thing. You said 'we manage to break even from centre square'. Righto...how many centre clearances did Crouch have for the match? Answer= zero!!

Most innacurate statement of the year; "Crouch’s in tight 16 tackles were instrumental in getting a spluttering midfield ball going our way" ...Righto! That's how the 2 coaches saw it

Thought this from BF posters (quite a few agreed but what do they know ..) on Crouch’s game was topical…

******
Brad Crouch zero votes from the coaches, 17 tackles, smothered West Coasts last set shot on goal when they were about 8 points down, busted his gut all day. “Hmmmm nah, not in the top 5”, cop that champ lol.


And another…

It’s often those doing the in and under hard stufff that doesn’t get noticed.
Without Crouch yesterday will lose by 5 goals.

And again…

Crouch is the only mid we have who performs every week , we get Sinclair as a full time mid and he could be that point of difference to really get us looking like a finals team - the only thing is they need help.

And you want him dropped for Bytel?????
This site throws up sone hilarious Shiite I gotta say

[Scollop]

How is Brad Crouch rated as a midfielder? Somehow... I don't think AFL coaches go to bigfooty for some random anonymous opinions. They need analysis for the effectiveness of a player.

What happens after the player gets a clearance...What happens after a player kicks or handballs or tackles an opponent...Does the team benefit?

Answer: viewtopic.php?p=2018301#p2018301

80% of Saintsational posters gave him best on ground votes...it seems the coaches disagreed. One good smother alone doesn't earn votes.

I'll repeat...zero centre clearances against WCE for the match. Crouch had 4 tackles and 8 possessions in the second half of footy. If we relied on him to win games we'd be lucky to have 4 wins this year.

He gets tackles at stoppages and wins a few contests with a handball at times, because he just happens to be present at the stoppage. He is replaceable.

[Teflon]

How is Brad Crouch rated as a midfielder? Somehow... I don't think AFL coaches go to bigfooty for some random anonymous opinions. They need analysis for the effectiveness of a player.

What happens after the player gets a clearance...What happens after a player kicks or handballs or tackles an opponent...Does the team benefit?

Answer: viewtopic.php?p=2018301#p2018301

80% of Saintsational posters gave him best on ground votes...it seems the coaches disagreed. One good smother alone doesn't earn votes.

I'll repeat...zero centre clearances against WCE for the match. Crouch had 4 tackles and 8 possessions in the second half of footy. If we relied on him to win games we'd be lucky to have 4 wins this year.

He gets tackles at stoppages and wins a few contests with a handball at times, because he just happens to be present at the stoppage. He is replaceable.

So he’s just “lucky he gets in the right spot”???
I think once again you’re showing your flaws
He didn’t get in coaches votes so he’s not delivering???
I think you need to re-watch the game and maybe instead of drooling over stats or coaches votes take a look at how many knock ons, spillages from Crouch tackles gets it going our way (not flashy but very effective)
As one BF poster described him …he’s your four Toyota Landcruiser type …and you need them in the midfield
Who’s your immediate replacement of Crouch who can step in tomorrow, provide 17 tackles and game high possession from the inside ????
I’m all ears…

[The Fireman]

we would be in shitters ditch without crouch unfortunately. until we get someone better.

[Scollop]

How is Brad Crouch rated as a midfielder? Somehow... I don't think AFL coaches go to bigfooty for some random anonymous opinions. They need analysis for the effectiveness of a player.

What happens after the player gets a clearance...What happens after a player kicks or handballs or tackles an opponent...Does the team benefit?

Answer: viewtopic.php?p=2018301#p2018301

80% of Saintsational posters gave him best on ground votes...it seems the coaches disagreed. One good smother alone doesn't earn votes.

I'll repeat...zero centre clearances against WCE for the match. Crouch had 4 tackles and 8 possessions in the second half of footy. If we relied on him to win games we'd be lucky to have 4 wins this year.

He gets tackles at stoppages and wins a few contests with a handball at times, because he just happens to be present at the stoppage. He is replaceable.

So he’s just “lucky he gets in the right spot”???
I think once again you’re showing your flaws
He didn’t get in coaches votes so he’s not delivering???
I think you need to re-watch the game and maybe instead of drooling over stats or coaches votes take a look at how many knock ons, spillages from Crouch tackles gets it going our way (not flashy but very effective)
As one BF poster described him …he’s your four Toyota Landcruiser type …and you need them in the midfield
Who’s your immediate replacement of Crouch who can step in tomorrow, provide 17 tackles and game high possession from the inside ????
I’m all ears…

You.

C’mon Teffers.You can do it. I have faith in you.

Just picture it right… You’re at the MCG in the middle of the ground and the ball is bounced.

Rowan gets the tap. It bounces off an opponents hip and falls on the ground. Before he has time to look the right way, you bend down, rip out a fart and and you still have time to pick up the footy. Unfortunately at this stage 3 players from the opposition pounce on you and you cop a cracked rib, you dislocate your shoulder and you’ve got some sort of other pain in your back which could be your kidneys bleeding.

Nevertheless. You were there Teffers. You happen to be at the stoppage and you momentarily got your hands on the football. When you are over your injuries, you’ll be back in there and I’m sure after about 20 attempts you’ll get a handball off (probably to green grass or to a team mate 1 m away who is about to get tackled). You’ve just earnt yourself a clearance stat… the equal of some of Brad’s best.

Effectiveness of a mid and specifically their clearances is based on 2 things. How many clearances someone gets based on the amount of stoppages they attend and what happens after that first disposal out of clearance. In other words if Gresham or Clark get twice as many clearances per stoppage attendance to Crouch then they are more effective. It doesn’t matter that Crouch had a higher number. If Owens gets a clearance and it results in a scoring chain or a goal assist 400% more often than when Brad Crouch gets a clearance, then once again, it matters not that Crouch had a few more insignificant clearances on pure numbers.

In the meantime, you keep going to BF posters for your footy knowledge while the coaches use proper analysis and data to rate the effectiveness of their charges.

[Saint2]

Better off to look at the midfield as a unit, not a bunch of seperate players. Being slack and lazy, I can't be bothered chasing up stats, but I would say that our midfield has very little involvement in goals compared to the teams around us on the ladder?

[Scollop]

Last post in this thread from me. Sorry it turned into another pissing contest

I don’t want to be disrespectful to Brad. He busts his arse and I know he gives fantastic effort and that in itself is good as far as being a leader and role model.

Obviously I was being silly in my previous post, but the fact of the matter is that Crouch attends many more stoppages than others and therefore he is bound to get many more touches and tackles. He has his strengths and he is a work horse. He is a good stopper/tackler. He is strong and he is durable…but is he an effective midfielder and …is he as effective as others on the list? The ratings say he isn’t

[George27]

Gresh, who I had open clearance papers ready for him to sign at half-time, really got on his bike. I swear I even saw him look for one of our players before he kicked.

That was rather astonishing!

I also saw Haley's comet back in 1986. That's two once-in-a- lifetime sightings to add to my watching St Kilda win the 1966 Premiership!

What a dull life I've had.

Halley’s Comet was a major disappointment- at least from my back yard.