To any club administrator who might frequent this forum

[SydneySainter]

St Kilda is just a sh*tty football club at present and until you start fostering a culture which is desperate for success, we will only ever be just another sh*tty football club.

[WellardSaint]

Tony74,
You would do well to put this thread on your computer at the club, and get Fred Bassat, Jack Rush, and one or 2 other board members to look over your shoulder.

We've had a gutful of the downward spiral into oblivion since 2010.

[Sainter_Dad]

Tomy74

Please review these posts and if these two are members - offer them the door

[Teflon]

I think Tony now frequents BF….hard not to see why..

[Scollop]

Message from the messiah;

"I understand the narrative. There's no judgement for me in it. I think it's apples and oranges a bit. I don't think it's a binary answer."

https://www.afl.com.au/news/954591/no-c ... with-lions

[WellardSaint]

Tomy74

Please review these posts and if these two are members - offer them the door

A forum rule is 'it's forbidden to identify a forum member' and any person who does this will be banned asap'

[Sainter_Dad]

Tomy74

Please review these posts and if these two are members - offer them the door

A forum rule is 'it's forbidden to identify a forum member' and any person who does this will be banned asap'

I don't want to know who you are - I am just suggesting that you may not still need to members.

[cwrcyn]

Looks like another case of "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

Seriously, taking pot shots at the club all the time is ridiculous. Emotional outbursts due to frustration don't achieve anything.

Look at the facts. We all know we're a middle of the ladder team with insufficient talent to get into the top 4 in the immediate future. We all thought it at the start of the year so why the histrionics? Because we lost to Collingwood by a goal, Port Adelaide by a goal, lost narrowly to Richmond in the wet and to Brisbane. All those teams have more talent than us. Three of them have a lot more talent.

We played against those teams, who all have strong midfields, with our own B grade midfield whose best player is playing with multiple injuries and significantly down on form because of them.

We need more talent. Simple. We need two quality midfielders with speed, we need a tall powerful key defender, and we need a competent, mobile second ruck who can play in other positions.

Just wanting and wishing things to be different without realistically assessing where the playing list is, is pointless. Getting angry about it an potting the entire football club even more so.

[66Iwasthere]

Looks like another case of "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

Seriously, taking pot shots at the club all the time is ridiculous. Emotional outbursts due to frustration don't achieve anything.

Look at the facts. We all know we're a middle of the ladder team with insufficient talent to get into the top 4 in the immediate future. We all thought it at the start of the year so why the histrionics? Because we lost to Collingwood by a goal, Port Adelaide by a goal, lost narrowly to Richmond in the wet and to Brisbane. All those teams have more talent than us. Three of them have a lot more talent.

We played against those teams, who all have strong midfields, with our own B grade midfield whose best player is playing with multiple injuries and significantly down on form because of them.

We need more talent. Simple. We need two quality midfielders with speed, we need a tall powerful key defender, and we need a competent, mobile second ruck who can play in other positions.

Just wanting and wishing things to be different without realistically assessing where the playing list is, is pointless. Getting angry about it an potting the entire football club even more so.

Couldn’t agree more, very well put.

[nobhead]

Looks like another case of "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

Seriously, taking pot shots at the club all the time is ridiculous. Emotional outbursts due to frustration don't achieve anything.

Look at the facts. We all know we're a middle of the ladder team with insufficient talent to get into the top 4 in the immediate future. We all thought it at the start of the year so why the histrionics? Because we lost to Collingwood by a goal, Port Adelaide by a goal, lost narrowly to Richmond in the wet and to Brisbane. All those teams have more talent than us. Three of them have a lot more talent.

We played against those teams, who all have strong midfields, with our own B grade midfield whose best player is playing with multiple injuries and significantly down on form because of them.

We need more talent. Simple. We need two quality midfielders with speed, we need a tall powerful key defender, and we need a competent, mobile second ruck who can play in other positions.

Just wanting and wishing things to be different without realistically assessing where the playing list is, is pointless. Getting angry about it an potting the entire football club even more so.

Agree on your assesment of the playing list.
Just so frustrating for long suffering members that our club has made so many mistakes at board level ,that has seen our club so successs starved for so long.

[asiu]

survival is success

no point looking backwards
as Lots wife found out

salt , ashes 'n misery

get with the program i reckon
or be a misery , lost in the past.

[Sanctorum]

Well said cwrcyn, my sentiments too.

The club did what a lot of supporters are now demanding back in October last year when the Board bit the bullet following a rigorous review, with outside help, and decided to sack Brett Ratten and bring back Ross Lyon, an experienced coach who has been highly regarded in the industry for his capacity to build a team that has potential to go all the way. In 2009/10 he almost succeeded twice....

Neither the Board, nor Lyon, nor supporters whose heads are screwed on right expected that St Kilda somehow would all of a sudden transform into a premiership contending team in Lyon's first year back at the helm.

The list is still a long way off what's required to match it with the top 4 - Collingwood, Melbourne, Richmond, Geelong, and that will take at least another 2 years.

I, no more than anyone, like to see St Kilda get done, but I've been around as a member/supporter of the Mighty Saints for over 60 years, and have no illusions about the realities of our journey back to the top of the comp. But I'm supremely confident that what the club has done since October last year is 100% correct and has put our club on a path to ultimate success.

It's not easy being a Saints supporter, if you don't have the necessary patience you'd be well advised to abandon the ship and support one of the more successful clubs in the comp, it will save you a lot of heartache, frustration and bitterness!!

FORTIUS QUO FIDELIUS

[Otiman]

I think the only criticism to be given to the footy staff right now is that we (the fans) aren't sure if the goal is to win every week, or explore the list, or a bit of both. I don't even think we can know this until the end of the season list management.

Perhaps we got caught up in some early wins (I certainly did) and are trying to win every game now. That's admirable but was not the plan. Either we rejig or plough on.

If anyone has ever thought they were any good at pool or darts in a social setting, then joined a comp and got totally pantsed - this is about where we are at.

Cant fault the administration for anything they've done (or not done) because aside from appoint Ross and back him in, there's not much else that can be done right now.

[samoht]

The administrators should have backed Ratten in ... we were 8-3 last year, until injuries hit hard.
Sicily wouldn't have helped himself to 43 possessions against us last year, even in the second half of the season.

We are making it too easy for the oposition half backs.
Is the administration comfortable with this?

This year we have more depth ... NWM and Owens are gaining experience and improving. Stocker has been a good pick up.

We have some very winnable games coming up ... a much easier second half than last year.

If we don't make finals this year with the new coach, and end the year strongly, how have we improved?

[samuraisaint]

We lost two games in a row to two of the premier teams in the comp by four goals after refusing to give up and cracking in all night.
Before that we beat last year's grand finalist on their home deck where they rarely lose.

We have had a tough three weeks and have never quit. We have a lot of injuries and are still fifth!

I back our boys to beat the Eagles in Perth next week and gain 10 points for our percentage doing it!

[skeptic]

The only time you can make anything remotely close to a realistic assessment of the coaching staff is season’s end after the off-season list finalisation.

At the point you have the results and a sense of the direction that team RTB is heading.

Guys like Paton and Gresh are getting games now but if they’re moved on… then it becomes clear that continued opportunities have been a test to make a call for example.

IMO there’s way too much snap decision making going on here.

[cwrcyn]

In the past two years we've finally added some youngsters to our list. It's going to take time before they hit their peak performance.

Wanganeen-Milera
Phillipou
Owens
Windhager
Caminiti

All have shown they can play

Hotton
Keeler
Van Es
McLennan

Too early to tell


Heath

Promising developing ruck. Will take another year or two to be ready


More young talent is needed

Let's see what all of these guys have before having a tantrum

[Life Long Saint]

Richmond are not one of the "premier" teams in the comp in 2023.
Nor are Brisbane. They will not be contending for the premiership this season. Not until they overcome their issue with the MCG. The only way they're palying in the Grand Final is if they finish top 2 and win both Gabba finals.

Given our performances since 2010, it's hard to argue with anyone that views us as anything but ordinary.
We've played finals once since 2011 and that was a covid affected season.

We typically start the season well, fall away in the middle part, and come home OK to give us some positives. Rinse and repeat.
Through a combination of poor recruiting and player development, we've stagnated and are living in the middle rung of teams destined to stay there.
We are clearly not an attractive option for good quality free agents. So we look for bargain buys. They are usually damaged goods having been delisted by their original teams. We crack the rare gem, but most are just depth players.

Surely it's OK to demand more from the club? I think it's abnormal not to be frustrated with this team and this club.
Since our last decent crack at a flag in 2010, we've had to watch Hawthorn, Richmond, Bulldogs, Eagles, and Melbourne go past us and win flags.

I don't understand why people would suggest that supporters that voice a frustration should have the membership revoked. Childish reaction, really.

I started following the Saints in the mid 70's. We were terrible then. And it didn't get better until around 1987 when Plugger kicked his first ton and Baldock was coaching. We had some hope. Short lived as it turned out. We were hooked on the cult of the individual. It almost didn't matter if we won, as long as Plugger had a day out.
Then, Sheldon showed us a glimpse of what a professional club can do. 1991 and 1992 were good years for us. Through a stupid quirk of the first version of the final 6, we played the Cats in our first final in 18 years. Lost by seven points.
Backed up again in 1992, but had a tougher run.
Then wilderness again. Another tilt in 1997 when fate killed us by taking down Vidovic and Everitt and Alves being stubborn and outcoached by Blight. Couldn't get near it again until Thomas came on board. A different mindset and, to coin a popular phrase, a disruptor. It was what we needed. Community camps, rotating captaincy, attacking football and a great group of kids coming through. But it ended in a way that only St Kilda could end it.
Then the Ross Lyon era when we should have won our second flag. Inaccuracy, toe pokes, and bad bounces.
But all the eggs were put in one basket for a shot at the flag. The development cupboard was bare.
We have not recovered from that.
Compare our development to Geelong (who are the best at it). We are at the opposite end of the scale.

We must be better. We must, as members, demand that we are better.
The first step to fixing a problem is recognising we have one.
We are, and have been for the better part of 50 years, a shitty football club.

[skeptic]

Have we?

We were a decent team in the 90s. A genuine threat in 91-92

Pbly should have won in 97 and 98

Pbly should have won in 04-05

Def should have won in 09-10

We’ve had a dismal 10 years but at least won a final in that time.

[Life Long Saint]

You've nominated 6 years out of 50+ years when you say we probably should have won one. That still leaves 44+ years of mediocrity.

But lets look at the times you mentioned.
91-92...I covered 1991 above but in 92, we finished 6th before the finals. We won a final but were smashed the next week...Hardly a threat.
We didn't make a grand final in 04-05. Not sure how we could have won it. It was heartbreaking watching Port win the flag in 2004, but they beat us in the prelim and took on the spent Lions.
In 98 we lost two finals after finishing 6th...Any other subsequent year and we would not have had the 2nd chance. Again, not really a threat that year. In fact our 2nd half of that season was terrible and we literally fell into the finals.
We were the best team in 09, but were not in 2010. We stunned the Pies getting close in the Grand Final.

We won a final in the covid shortened season. Everythng prior to and since has been terrible.

[D.B.Cooper]

I was unaware the club had appointed an Administrator.

The financial position must be more dire than we have been led to believe.

I hope they read the tremendously insightful OP as a roadmap, whilst they plan our future direction.

[SAINT-LEE]

Op must've rewatched the game, lost his mind grapes...poor bastard...hits ya right in the plums.

But that's our measure. We're in it. It's our club, our people.
Forever.
Either suck it up and join the lads or let us alone.

We need not thine petulance for our sorrow carries us along nicely.

[skeptic]

You've nominated 6 years out of 50+ years when you say we probably should have won one. That still leaves 44+ years of mediocrity.

But lets look at the times you mentioned.
91-92...I covered 1991 above but in 92, we finished 6th before the finals. We won a final but were smashed the next week...Hardly a threat.
We didn't make a grand final in 04-05. Not sure how we could have won it. It was heartbreaking watching Port win the flag in 2004, but they beat us in the prelim and took on the spent Lions.
In 98 we lost two finals after finishing 6th...Any other subsequent year and we would not have had the 2nd chance. Again, not really a threat that year. In fact our 2nd half of that season was terrible and we literally fell into the finals.
We were the best team in 09, but were not in 2010. We stunned the Pies getting close in the Grand Final.

We won a final in the covid shortened season. Everythng prior to and since has been terrible.

Come on LLS… you can figure out the context without me having to explain it.
The years I mentioned we were legitimate threats to win the flag but we were competitive and far from a basket case for a lot of at least a 20 year period there

We made the finals in 91, 92, 97, 98, 04, 05, 06, 08, 09, 10, 11 and 20 (obviously noting it’s been a mediocre 13 years.
Short on winning a flag, we were one of the more successful clubs in the AFL from 97-11

That being said… yes we should aim to be better

[Life Long Saint]

I get your context, but it's in between years that are the problem.
From 93 to 96, we finished 12th, 13th, 14th, and 10th (after winning the pre-season cup)
From 99 to 2003, we finished 10th (after being =2nd at round 10), last, 2nd last, 2nd last, 11th,
From 2012 to 2019, we finished 9th, 16th, last, 14th, 9th, 11th, 16th, and 14th

We have short periods of competitiveness but outside of that, we are largely nowhere near it.
Clearly the 2000's were our best period, but on the whole that was a flash in the pan. What did we do that was different in that period?
After the Blight debacle we fundamentally changed our approach. Invested heavily in the recruiting both from the draft and other clubs.
We had two great KPP forwards and recruited Hamill and Gehrig. We rookied a kid from Essendon that turned into our best ever small forward. Drafted a midfield that was both hard at it and skillful.
We peaked under Ross in 09.
They were our golden years of my lifetime of support. We are nowhere near emulating that.
We have learned and retained nothing from the Grant Thomas approach. Nothing! Not even the most simple lesson on how to develop leaders.

This is our problem and why the OP is spot on.

[Annoyedsaint]

The goal clearly isn’t winning.
4 goals at half time for the billionth time.

Collingwood play to score and to win.

St Kilda give nothing during a game.
Nothing.

If chipping sideways, backwards, then flooding before the opposition even clears the defensive goal square was the goal then we’d go through undefeated!!! 22-0 as Ross The Toss would say!!