Nothing wrong with where we're at.

[Otiman]

One of the key things we are lacking is teamwork.

King and Caminiti are not working together to benefit each other.
Nobody is putting on a block for Philippou to get the ball in clear space.

There must be many more examples.

Too many individuals playing for their careers.

[shanegrambeau]

One of the key things we are lacking is teamwork.

King and Caminiti are not working together to benefit each other.
Nobody is putting on a block for Philippou to get the ball in clear space.

There must be many more examples.

Too many individuals playing for their careers.

Mnnn no idea

except maybe..
,,,,, they are playing to the team plan so seriously that the little mico-moments, as you suggest, like giving Pou an exit space, and all the little nuanced stuff is not being allowed to 'flow' as iy were?

but so much of the team now looks tired and betean, it is amazing that we are getting into competitive positions in games...

Wait a minute ...
We all know the Lions could have beaten us by 50+ last night. The score line flattered us with their misses.
If that were in Brisbane it could have been worse than Adelaide.

Upside
as long as the juniors stay on the straight path to God...we will surely be better in 2-3 years.

..aedit...another positive,,Brisbane didn't look THAT good either..That they are top4 is something. They don't look like a champion team, not at all, yet

[samuraisaint]

The Lions have been finalists - top four at end of H&A for four years - and this will be their fifth.

For most if not all of the season we have been missing Membrey, Clark, Coffield, Hayes, McKenzie, Jones, Billings, and we didn't have King until round 10.

There is no way we can hope to keep covering players like that indefinitely, especially when we're playing Richmond, Brisbane, and now Melbourne in two weeks.

I was disappointed at the game last night and was getting pretty vocal at the game about the continual bombing it long to an intercepting defender, or even pushing the ball forward to the defender's advantage all the time.

The reality is if King and Stocker get suspended this week and miss the Eagles game, then the selectors will have headaches.

I would bring in as many of the above as are fit to play and if they aren't ready, then Zaine Cordy and Campbell need to come in.

Beat the Eagles, lose to Melbourne, and we then play Gold Coast and North. Three out of four would be an excellent result.

[Sanctorum]

Our midfield woes are long standing. One paced, lacking in class, speed, and match-winning talent.

Our forward half is our best zone on the field. We had three teenagers in there for a lot of tonight (Owens, Phillipou, and Caminiti). Those guys can improve a lot from here on so I'm confident with a couple more preseasons, they'll be better equipped.

Our back half is solid, but we desperately need a 197cm+ key back with some real strength.

I think most of us rated the team in that 8 - 14 range at the start of the year, so we shouldn't be surprised that we're getting beaten by Brisbane.

I see some fatigue setting in with this group, and I think Phillipou is noticeably labouring under the weight of his first year of AFL football as the youngest player in the competition. Ideally, he should be given rest.

With Byrnes it's been a matter of diminishing returns in recent weeks. He had one to forget tonight. Does he have the sufficient class to be a long standing regular? I wish I could say yes, but the trend line is starting to worry me.


When players are not running into space to provide an option , when key forwards are standing like statues rather than leading , and when defenders lose their concentration, that smells like fatigue, both physical and mental.

Our deficiencies will take time to rectify. In the meantime we'll continue to see these types of performance

Frustrating to watch

Some very good points cwrcyn, especially about Ryan Byrnes, it remains to be seen if he has the ability to go to next level and become an impact player. Last night he had just 7 touches including the goal and it was not surprising to see him subbed out.

Phillipou had a quiet game as well and while it could be argued he should be replaced by Bytel I imagine the reason he keeps getting selected is because the team has a chronic lack of tall players, which both Richmond and Brisbane exposed in the past two outings.

The forward structure is dreadful, and Membrey's continued absence, given his vast experience, is part of the reason they're not capitalising on all the forward 50 entries. Max King is not showing any improvement since he resumed from a long injury layoff, last night he was quite impotent against the Lions tall defenders who simply punched the ball away whenever it was bombed in.

It certainly was bloody hard to watch, but from what I have seen this year, the players are demonstrating far more effort than they did at the same time in 2022, they're playing out the full 4 quarters which shows they understand the game plan set by the coaches.

Early this month I posted the following predictions post the bye:

13 - Sydney - SCG - L
14 - Richmond - MCG - W
15 - Brisbane - Marvel - L
16 - West Coast - Marvel - W
17 - Melbourne - Marvel - L
18 - Gold Coast - Carrara - W
19 - North Melb - Marvel - W
20 - Hawthorn - Marvel - W
21 - Carlton - Marvel - W
22 - Richmond - Marvel - W
23 - Brisbane - Gabba - L

In effect after round 15 St Kilda are 8-6 as I suggested.

On the question of Lyon's assertion that this was an 'exploratory year' that's unlikely to occur while the team is in the top 8.

It's not as though there are a number of players in the seconds who are knocking the door down and as much as Highmore and Bytel are racking up big numbers for the Dragons, does anyone really believe their presence in the seniors will somehow make the team perform better?

Yeah, I'd love to see Max Heath who I've long touted as the next big thing get a game in the firsts, but I trust the selectors to put the best team on the park ech week, and they'll do that when they think it's appropriate.

Finally, if Billings, Jones, and McKenzie do well in the Sandringham game this morning, then certainly we should expect them to be selected sometime soon over the likes of Byrnes, Paton and Gresham.

[Saint 58]

Nine weeks left
Maybe finals for one week but unlikely & irrelevant
How many games will Van Es, Adams, Bytel, Connolly, Heath, Peris, Keeler, Hotton get ??
Surely at least a couple each !

Who goes out ... don't care
We need to see what these boys can do

[The Fireman]

taking into account all that has been said above after watching the presser i'm confident we have the right man at the helm.

The youth we have are good and will improve, we can all agree on that.
The club without a doubt will be hunting for decent mid , ruck and tall defender (with skill)
all bodes well for the future.

[Teflon]

What we need now and have alway needed is astute recruiting, recruiting, recruiting and to nail the draft year after year ... not coach, coach, coach.

Coach, coach, coach is indicative of stuffing up the recruiting and drafting.

We need to put more resources into recruiting ... and recruit/poach the best of the best recruiters.

That's where it's at.

I think we have a plan I think we have a coach
Not a coach telling us we are in the window
We’ve been overpaying and overrating players way too long
If Bassat did indicate big list changes hallelujah
Just don’t f k it up
Must take top picks to draft

[bigcarl]

What we need now and have alway needed is astute recruiting, recruiting, recruiting and to nail the draft year after year ... not coach, coach, coach.

Coach, coach, coach is indicative of stuffing up the recruiting and drafting.

We need to put more resources into recruiting ... and recruit/poach the best of the best recruiters.

That's where it's at.

I think we have a plan I think we have a coach
Not a coach telling us we are in the window
We’ve been overpaying and overrating players way too long
If Bassat did indicate big list changes hallelujah
Just don’t f k it up
Must take top picks to draft

Yep, keep the kids coming through.

[shanegrambeau]

Forgive me
‘Nothings wrong with where we are at’

It’s like your mother saying,

‘There’s nothing wrong with going bald Johnny’

‘Look at Uncle Bob’

Teen walks directly to bed room and launches 10 hour game escape

[Teflon]

taking into account all that has been said above after watching the presser i'm confident we have the right man at the helm.

The youth we have are good and will improve, we can all agree on that.
The club without a doubt will be hunting for decent mid , ruck and tall defender (with skill)
all bodes well for the future.

Totally Firey
In a way I think we need to stop pretending we are serious finalists
Sides like Hawks etc raking in draft talent will pass us while we fluff around 8-12
Get out of that zone and the only way we do that is bring a core of talented kids through
FA sounds ideal ….and you don’t ignore it but I see that as the cream on top once you have a solid talented core
We still carry too many players who’d have questions asked if they tried to play in top sides
Guys like Byrnes Paton Howard …im not sure stay on other sides lists tbh
As an aside….one of the better games from Brad Hill I thought..

[Teflon]

Nine weeks left
Maybe finals for one week but unlikely & irrelevant
How many games will Van Es, Adams, Bytel, Connolly, Heath, Peris, Keeler, Hotton get ??
Surely at least a couple each !

Who goes out ... don't care
We need to see what these boys can do

Spot on
If you were Bassatt you’d be saying to Lyon
Finals aren’t the measure
A sustained talented core is your measure
The more AFL players who can stand up to take us forward you find the better
Uncover them

[shanegrambeau]

Building for the future AND managing the present.

Special focus on managing the present.

No escape down the ‘rebuild road’ please

Scrimp, scamp, improvise, patch whatever it takes to keeps wins. Dropping four points is not an option

[Teflon]

Listening to RTB presser in full - he sounds sick as but I really thought he nailed it
Disappointed? Yes
Compare to last year - no how can you we started this year with kids
Men against boys ….lol Hammer to do deadlifts in gym
He found out more about individuals tonight and he’ll process that …..that could be ominous for some
Sinclair went into guts was our best mid…sadly…
Anyway I could care less about finals
Will be more excited if we could 2-3 picks inside 20 and something close to 10 and if we nail those in 2 years we ought to be genuinely on the up ….not faking it

[nobhead]

Listening to RTB presser in full - he sounds sick as but I really thought he nailed it
Disappointed? Yes
Compare to last year - no how can you we started this year with kids
Men against boys ….lol Hammer to do deadlifts in gym
He found out more about individuals tonight and he’ll process that …..that could be ominous for some
Sinclair went into guts was our best mid…sadly…
Anyway I could care less about finals
Will be more excited if we could 2-3 picks inside 20 and something close to 10 and if we nail those in 2 years we ought to be genuinely on the up ….not faking it

100% .just nail our early draft picks.keep developing the guys on our list.weed out the blokes that aren't going to take us anywhere,and build a list and enviroment for sustained success.

[nostalgicsaint]

For those frustrated at the lack of change to the side week to week its worth thinking about this in the context of any other work place.


In my view the best managers/leaders give underperformed talent more support than they deserve to see if the situation can be rectified before moving swiftly and ruthlessly when the time comes- everyone including the leader (in this case Lyon) can then move forward knowing they weren't unfairly treated.

There are other forms of feedback players can receive from Ross that extend beyond selection and from all reports RL isn't shy in providing it.


The alternative leadership style is to chop and change regularly and make emotional decisions.

I know which style I prefer in the leaders I've had in my life.

[Saint 58]

I don't recall anyone saying "chop and change"
I DO recall someone saying "exploratory year"

[nostalgicsaint]

I don't recall anyone saying "chop and change"
I DO recall someone saying "exploratory year"

More than one way to explore the capabilities of the list. Doesn't have to be through selection in the ones.

[Teflon]

I don't recall anyone saying "chop and change"
I DO recall someone saying "exploratory year"

More than one way to explore the capabilities of the list. Doesn't have to be through selection in the ones.

Lol correct
You can’t chop n change anyhow cause what’s quality outside to cone in?

[Saint 58]

I don't recall anyone saying "chop and change"
I DO recall someone saying "exploratory year"

More than one way to explore the capabilities of the list. Doesn't have to be through selection in the ones.

Lol correct
You can’t chop n change anyhow cause what’s quality outside to cone in?

Again … no one said “chop & change” - don’t misquote other posters

What’s another way to explore the capabilities of the list ?

[Saint 58]

I don't recall anyone saying "chop and change"
I DO recall someone saying "exploratory year"

More than one way to explore the capabilities of the list. Doesn't have to be through selection in the ones.

Lol correct
You can’t chop n change anyhow cause what’s quality outside to cone in?

Again … no one said “chop & change” - don’t misquote other posters

What’s another way to explore the capabilities of the list ?

[bakes]

I had Campbell in my best 22 for Round 1 and having seen the early domination that Oscar had over Marshall yesterday , and the continued Centre clearance struggles we had, I would still like to see him come in to share the load with Marshall. Plus it adds an extra tall in our forward line which gives their backman less chance to intercept mark. Campbell is a strong man too and we were like boys against men yesterday. As skilful as Billing’s is, he’s a jockey and we have enough jockeys we need men.

[Saint 58]

Hey Teflon,

Are you schizophrenic ?
First you agreed with me to play the kids for the remainder of the year
Not all at once of course

Then you changed your mind

?

[nostalgicsaint]

I don't recall anyone saying "chop and change"
I DO recall someone saying "exploratory year"

More than one way to explore the capabilities of the list. Doesn't have to be through selection in the ones.

Lol correct
You can’t chop n change anyhow cause what’s quality outside to cone in?

Again … no one said “chop & change” - don’t misquote other posters

What’s another way to explore the capabilities of the list ?

To start.

How they train.
How they play in the twos.
How they take feedback and put it into action.
How they prepare.
How they recover.
How they show up to learn the structures.
How they support the team.

[Saint 58]

That's fair but it's like doing a four year university course with doing the final exams
Anyway, my point is you have to play them sometime to really find out if they can cut it in the ones
Not necessarily this week, or next week, but sometime

[SaintPav]

Fair chance we’ll still be 5th after this round.