Billings Mackenzie Jones........

[mad saint guy]

It's pretty crazy to think that we have zero games this year from Billings, Jones, McKenzie, Coffield and Hayes who I think are all best 22 when fit and firing.

I'd say we have zero games from the real Jack Steele as well.

[repta]

The conditions on Saturday night were dreadful for 3 quarters. The saints dont play outside enough (eg under the roof) and they looked at sea under the conditions.

The conditions didnt suit the talls at all, however they could have done more structurally to bring the ball to ground. The conditions didnt suit Caminiti and is wrong to measure him too hardly. King struggled for much of the game and Caminiti is not in the same league as King.

Howard looks like Mr Magoo half the time. He plods after the ball like a 18 month old chasing a tray of cakes.

I do have concerns for Phillipou. He plays like a player that has been pumped up all his life about how much a star he is (or will be). He reminds me a lot of Billings. Silky smooth, a star in the making, a natural talent etc etc . Therefore my question, is he actually doing the hard work behind the scenes to fulfill his potential. Or does he believe it will just come. He has Billings written all over him.
To mind Billings has always been pumped up about how brilliant he is going to be. At nearly 28 he is past his prime and I have a feeling he is now putting in the 'over effort' in trying to catch up to his potential and his body is failing. Above Average player at his best and wasted talent. Dreams of him being the answer are just wishful thinking. Same about trading him on for draft picks, he would have very little currency.

[Yorkeys]

Jack has had to play in poor sides, poorly coached. Context matters somewhat.

[Impatient Sainter]

I’ll preface this by saying Phillipou could well END UP a star player
He’s a smooth mover and has some real tricks
But if Billings was averaging his numbers
13.7 disposal (5.25 kicks)
0.67 goals
2.25 tackles
We’d be screaming out for his omission- I get that he’s young and has potential- but as it is, he’s getting a bit of a good run.
A few at Sandy wouldn’t have hurt him a month ago imo
I’d have Jack Bytel IN the team - for a month - in the midfield
We need to find out if he can play - Steele should have been rested a couple of weeks ago
Highmore has been the best player at Sandy - I’d give Dougal 1 more chance - problem with Highmore is size - he’s mid size

I agree re Billings if he was in fit and in form. Phillipou & Caminiti are like all first year players they tire as the season goes on, both need to be rested. Our issue is we have no one banging the door down in those positions to replace them. Our VFL team are diabolical the lack of ready talent or depth playing there is an indictment on the club.

Its too late to rest Steele now, he shouldnt have been allowed back until he was fully fit. I agree it would be good to bring Bytel back in, I would move Seb Ross out to Byrnes wing, drop Byrnes and play Bytel and Sinclair in the middle.

[Devilhead]

Caminiti ... the full back sitting in plain sight

Maybe?

[Yorkeys]

The coaches are well aware of our list limitations as a result of ordinary drafting for a long time.
Expect us to be creative with our trading end of season.

By any chance has Gresham been offered less as part of the creativity?

[Banger owens]

The conditions on Saturday night were dreadful for 3 quarters. The saints dont play outside enough (eg under the roof) and they looked at sea under the conditions.

The conditions didnt suit the talls at all, however they could have done more structurally to bring the ball to ground. The conditions didnt suit Caminiti and is wrong to measure him too hardly. King struggled for much of the game and Caminiti is not in the same league as King.

Howard looks like Mr Magoo half the time. He plods after the ball like a 18 month old chasing a tray of cakes.

I do have concerns for Phillipou. He plays like a player that has been pumped up all his life about how much a star he is (or will be). He reminds me a lot of Billings. Silky smooth, a star in the making, a natural talent etc etc . Therefore my question, is he actually doing the hard work behind the scenes to fulfill his potential. Or does he believe it will just come. He has Billings written all over him.
To mind Billings has always been pumped up about how brilliant he is going to be. At nearly 28 he is past his prime and I have a feeling he is now putting in the 'over effort' in trying to catch up to his potential and his body is failing. Above Average player at his best and wasted talent. Dreams of him being the answer are just wishful thinking. Same about trading him on for draft picks, he would have very little currency.

I have it on good authority phillipou has been told to actually ease off a bit on his work load as was windy. the former was running more kms then the club wanted him to. and wind just beefed up and lost his 1 wood in his running power.
Billings is a whole different story. the quote "talent only gets you so far" sums him up

[CQ SAINT]

Caminiti ... the full back sitting in plain sight

Maybe?

I've thought about that and perhaps the coaches have too. He is quick, he can leap and 196 ain't true anymore, might be 198 now.

I also believe Wilkie is a waste defending bigs and should be the quarterback/rebounder and second man in.

[SaintPav]

Caminiti was given a 3 year contract on the back of a few good games.

Maybe they went a bit early.

I’d probably give him one more game.

If you look at him like a drafted player 9 which barring injury he would have been) not surprising to see deal extended.

Everyone needs to remember this kid didn't do a proper pre season and therefore it isn't surprising that hes running out of puff a bit

I agree that he probably needs a full pre season under his belt.

If Caminiti hadn’t injured himself at school muck up, most likely he would have been a late third rounder or rookied.

[D.B.Cooper]

Caminiti ... the full back sitting in plain sight

Maybe?

Don’t disagree.
Closing speed, aggressive, strength and size.
Could be very handy in that role.

I think they would prefer a pre-season where he trains with the defenders before they’d throw the dice.

[Teflon]

It's pretty crazy to think that we have zero games this year from Billings, Jones, McKenzie, Coffield and Hayes who I think are all best 22 when fit and firing.

I'd say we have zero games from the real Jack Steele as well.

And we are 5th
I think losses around us have been kind as well …

[repta]

Caminiti will need to concentrate more.for full back. Cant see him with enough discipline at the moment. Maybe.
Camomile doing a good job as second tall in forward line. Is young and will have good and bad games. Wet day at the MCG.

Need Jones hardness at the ball.

Saints will need more big bodies come September to make an impact.
Will need them to see September.

[King Max]

All well and good to drop this player and add that player but then come next week carry on if we lose …..the corporate bosses still want us in finals even if we are only making up the numbers

Stupid corporate bosses and their desire for success

[chook23]

All 3 may resume in VFL this week

[CQ SAINT]

All 3 may resume in VFL this week

I hear Hamill and Hanners are available too.

[magnifisaint]

All 3 may resume in VFL this week

I hear Hamill and Hanners are available too.

Maybe Hanners but Hamill is still 2 weeks

[Saint2]

Left field thought.
Play Marshall forward, swithcing into the ruck with Campbell as the main ruckman.
We are continually smashed at clearances every week.
Caminiti is young, raw, and still learning. Let him develop in the twos for a bit.
King has no viable foil...We are back to bombing it into the forward line. Marshall would be an excellent target in addition to King. Makes it harder to match up for teams, too.

Howard has to play this week as we have nobody else to go with Daniher and Hipwood.

We could have a great bunch of forwards and backs, but getting consistently smashed in the midfield and around stoppages, nullifies that quality, I would play King up at CHF which would force him to work a bit harder, and run a smaller FF. I don't see Marshall solving any forward issues- it's the ground level players we need firing.

[skeptic]

All 3 may resume in VFL this week

Let me guess…
McKenzie aggravates his calf in the final training session of the week
Jones does a hammy in 2nd quarter
Billings is BOG before being ruled out for 5 weeks with stress fractures

[George27]

I wish the three of them all the best for their return to the game , and beyond . Good luck , boys .

[The Fireman]

I’m looking forward to jones coming back
Been a big loss

[B.M]

Do people realise that footballers get injured?

Especially pros who push their bodies to the limit - sometimes the body breaks

Seriously, sometimes people say stupid stuff

Billings and Jones have played AFL for 9 years

Have played many uninterrupted seasons and 152 games (JB) 132 (ZJ) and 73 in 8 years (DMac)

They are having some injuries now - but it’s not like they haven’t played a long stretch of games

[The Fireman]

Do people realise that footballers get injured?

Especially pros who push their bodies to the limit - sometimes the body breaks

Seriously, sometimes people say stupid stuff

Billings and Jones have played AFL for 9 years

Have played many uninterrupted seasons and 152 games (JB) 132 (ZJ) and 73 in 8 years (DMac)

They are having some injuries now - but it’s not like they haven’t played a long stretch of games

Ummm ok

[skeptic]

Do people realise that footballers get injured?

Especially pros who push their bodies to the limit - sometimes the body breaks

Seriously, sometimes people say stupid stuff

Billings and Jones have played AFL for 9 years

Have played many uninterrupted seasons and 152 games (JB) 132 (ZJ) and 73 in 8 years (DMac)

They are having some injuries now - but it’s not like they haven’t played a long stretch of games

Don’t you ever get tired of hoping for the same thing year after year…

Maybe Billings will finally play 18+ games

Surely Jones can play 3 games in a row without injury

Hannebery played SFA for 4 years but we should extend the contract for one more and maybe he’ll be back

2022 was finally the year when Kent was fitter then ever and would suddenly be awesome

Richo is our second longest serving coach… hasn’t played finals but year 6 after a lousy 14th placed finish… well I have a good feeling about next year

I get that every once in a while a long shot pays off… most recently it is Mason Wood and that’s great… but they’re long shots for a reason and that is more often then not, they don’t work out

These players that have had the same chronic injuries for seasons on end and are breaking down with out even getting to the rigours of elite fitness… it doesn’t bode well for them.
Jones has had what… 9 hamstrings in 2 seasons?
Dmac has been injured with regularity for 5 years
Billings was re-injured again a fortnight after 12 weeks of rehabbing

We’re not talking about about a few unlucky impact injuries aka King or Gresh…. It’s just always something

[mad saint guy]

I do have concerns for Phillipou. He plays like a player that has been pumped up all his life about how much a star he is (or will be). He reminds me a lot of Billings. Silky smooth, a star in the making, a natural talent etc etc . Therefore my question, is he actually doing the hard work behind the scenes to fulfill his potential. Or does he believe it will just come. He has Billings written all over him.
To mind Billings has always been pumped up about how brilliant he is going to be. At nearly 28 he is past his prime and I have a feeling he is now putting in the 'over effort' in trying to catch up to his potential and his body is failing. Above Average player at his best and wasted talent. Dreams of him being the answer are just wishful thinking. Same about trading him on for draft picks, he would have very little currency.

At times I get a little frustrated by his output but we need to cut Pou some slack. He was a few days off being ineligible for last year's draft, plus his junior career was stifled pretty heavily by covid lockdowns so he'd still be catching up on some development from those years. I see some similarities between him and Billings as well, but there are key differences.

1 - Confidence. From the moment he was drafted Billings has looked like a nervous wreck. It didn't help his cause playing under Richo for so long who was infamous for fixating on a player's flaws rather than building them up on their strengths. Pou obviously speaks and carries himself with plenty of confidence. He's also flying for pack marks and bombing long goals. When Billings has a set shot 35m out directly in front he looks like he wants to be anywhere but on the footy field.

2 - Size. Billings is small by modern AFL standards whereas Pou is almost as tall as Roo. Once he fills out into his frame he'll be a beast. Might even grow a little more since he just turned 18.

3 - Composure under pressure. Ties in a little bit with confidence, but Pou is perfectly comfortable drawing in a tackle and waiting to release a handball once a teammate is clear rather than panicking and dishing out the footy ASAP or failing to make a decision and getting caught. He''s not getting it right every time just yet but there are moments when he absolutely nails it.

I can't speak for how Billings applies himself off-field but it sure seems like that won't be an issue with Pou. He seems genuinely obsessed with footy and Lyon wouldn't be playing him if he wasn't putting the work in.

[Otiman]

Billings is 27, is pigeon holed as a player we have plenty of others playing. Injuries are less of a worry than form/ability and position. Needs to reinvent himself as a midfielder or be traded/delisted. Minimal trade value - 3rd or 4th rounder.
McKenzie is 26 and off some good form. I'm not sure on his injury history, how many are soft tissue? If we assess his injuries are able to be overcome and can play a full season plus finals without getting injured, he's worth keeping on as 1 year contract. No trade value.
Jones is 28 and has only played 132 games. His soft tissue injuries have followed him from Sydney to us and is great when on the park but injury is a huge liability. No trade value, delist or keep as 'hopeful'.

All three need a dose of the Mason Wood success story (29yo, 93 games), AA Wingman before injury this year.