Onfield leadership

[CQ SAINT]

Being not as good as Curtly doesn’t make Courtney a less of a bowler.

He was a champion who took 500 wkts - the first player to do so

Curtly on his day (most days) was as good a bowler that has lived.
Best I’ve seen live (with Wasim) - missed Marshall and Lillee

Courtney a consistent and reliable threat - as I said Champion

Just don't tell me that Geary was one of our two best players, expect me to take you seriously and then, you can think what you like?

[Mr Magic]

I would have thought that not being as good would certainly make you lesser, by definition
Doesn’t make you bad, just not as good as the bloke you’re comparing to.

[B.M]

Compared to history - he’s still a champion in his own right

When we say how good was Fraser Gehrig?

We say a dual Coleman Medallist and centurion and champion of the club

We don’t say - he wasn’t as good as Tony Lockett!

[Mr Magic]

Why not?
It’s true
He wasn’t as good as Plugger (the best full forward IMHO)

[B.M]

Because we acknowledge his ability and achievements

Not denigrate by unfairly comparing him to one of the best 5 player in AFL history

[Mr Magic]

So comparing to a better player is denigrating?
Why?
Seb Ross knows he’s not as good a player as Lenny Hayes
He knows he’s not as good as Robert Harvey
Those facts don’t make him a bad player
Heck he’s won 2 b&fs
He’s just not as good as some others

[CQ SAINT]

Because we acknowledge his ability and achievements

Not denigrate by unfairly comparing him to one of the best 5 player in AFL history

You had no answer and threw out that we were sledging St.Kildas best to players. That's your emotions talking. No good explaining what you meant to say. They weren't the best players.

[B.M]

Who?

Geary and Ross

IMO they were the best two performed players after Jack Steven from 2017-2019 - Seb possibly better than Jack in that period

[Teflon]

Who?

Geary and Ross

IMO they were the best two performed players after Jack Steven from 2017-2019 - Seb possibly better than Jack in that period

Martin you’re going round in circles
Geary was an ok player Ross too
AFL has had lots of warriors
Doesn’t make them stars
I think you’ve let your emotions for players get in the way
Take a step back

[B.M]

Never said they were stars

Although there were periods in their careers where they were outstanding AFL players

Which is why they deserved their honours

I have seen Jack DOMINATE afl games consistently
I’ve seen Seb Ross do similar- not as damaging but more prolific
I’ve seen Geary shut down Eddie, Cyril at their best

[Mr Magic]

So, obviously no answer as to why comparing a playerto a past champion is denigrating to that player?

[Teflon]

Never said they were stars

Although there were periods in their careers where they were outstanding AFL players

Which is why they deserved their honours

I have seen Jack DOMINATE afl games consistently
I’ve seen Seb Ross do similar- not as damaging but more prolific
I’ve seen Geary shut down Eddie, Cyril at their best

Look, I get your loyalty and that’s commendable- all snide comments aside
But we have been in no man’s land for a decade
Got to move forward
Sone of these have to go
It’s more important than propping up finals this year…
We want to really challenge not be poly filler
Get a Sheezal another Pou or 2 hit to inject A grade talent

[B.M]

Please, continue with the snide comments- it’s your go

You’re a sniper

We could also select a Billings or McCartin or Hugh Goddard with DPs
Not all DPs end up stars, many are either just GOPs or busts


We will not go all chips in for DPs - not under Ross

He’s more concerned with his reputation than the club

[Teflon]

Please, continue with the snide comments- it’s your go

You’re a sniper

We could also select a Billings or McCartin or Hugh Goddard with DPs
Not all DPs end up stars, many are either just GOPs or busts


We will not go all chips in for DPs - not under Ross

He’s more concerned with his reputation than the club

Ok but you’re an egomaniac so carry on with that as well while we are throwing a few barbs around
Lyon will have to hit the draft as his leaked audio reveals…he knows he hasn’t got the talent with this lot
Sure, he’ll try land a FA here there but they won’t be compromising draft picks like a drunk Ratten …

[B.M]

Was Ratten the list manager?

[SAINT-LEE]

Geary & Ross WERE our best from 17-19...add in our best coach and history was made!

[saynta]

Please, continue with the snide comments- it’s your go

You’re a sniper

We could also select a Billings or McCartin or Hugh Goddard with DPs
Not all DPs end up stars, many are either just GOPs or busts


We will not go all chips in for DPs - not under Ross

He’s more concerned with his reputation than the club

Yep, Thhat's two things you got right in this post.

I think fans are starting to wake up to the
'master coach' and posters are jack of teflon and his almost continuous insults and attempted put downs.

[B.M]

With the list we had in 2017-2019

Where should we have finished

Yes, Seb was the best of an average list - but you still have to be the best

In those years - the best players weren’t the problem - the bad ones were.

It’s like 84-86 (we were appalling) was it Greg Burns fault?
No - he was the best player!

[Teflon]

Please, continue with the snide comments- it’s your go

You’re a sniper

We could also select a Billings or McCartin or Hugh Goddard with DPs
Not all DPs end up stars, many are either just GOPs or busts


We will not go all chips in for DPs - not under Ross

He’s more concerned with his reputation than the club

Yep, Thhat's two things you got right in this post.

I think fans are starting to wake up to the
'master coach' and posters are jack of teflon are his almost continuous insults and attempted put downs.

I think fans are sick of you nonsense and hatred for our coach full stop
It’s embarrassing
But you’ll come crawling if we start winning that I’m sure ..

[Teflon]

Was Ratten the list manager?

Who you talking to ?
In 3 years do you think Ratten had zero say on the list? So he was just fed players told to coach???
Do you think Lyon would cop that too ???
Odd.

[B.M]

Lyon and Ratten are on list mgt

But the man famous for “letting the cobblers cobble”

Would let the list manager shape the list and handle the contracts
After all that’s what they’re are paid hundreds of thousands to do

Otherwise just let Lyon manage the list? GT style

[shanegrambeau]

When it comes to onfield leadership in its widest sense, who do suppose has the most natural credentials?
Here are some ideas ()

Callum Wilkie
+Disciplined, calm, reliable, skill, plays with what he’s got
-defender


Zac Jones
+Goer, courageous, skilled, explosive, experienced with two clubs
-will be exposed for hit ‘n miss style, may not be training with discipline?


Jack Sinclair
+Hard worker, skilled, vision, highly involved and interconnected in terms of onfield football i.e. highly creative lineman, steady rise from alsoran in Richo’s alsorans
-maybe reticent and even shy

Jack Billings
+long serving, skilled, faced hardships, good decision maker, maligned but fighting on
-cooked?

Brad Hill
+200 gamer, three clubs, skilled, works hard, vocal on field
-detested by fans, scape goat for two seasons, resented for high pay check and good manager

Jack Steele
+ legendary toiler, stoic, skilled, brave
- quiet, non-demonstrative, in own shell?

-Holla a Marshall
+ stands like the rock of Gibraltar, skilled, involved
-??

Other possibles
left field
Butler?
Owens (youngest ever captain)

The cupboard is bare!!
Am I missing someone?



Forget about it
Hugo

[Sanctorum]

When it comes to onfield leadership in its widest sense, who do suppose has the most natural credentials?

Apart from Callum Wilkie I'm not sure if there is in fact another onfield leader with 'natural credentials' on the list, and more's the pity.

Jack Steele for all his talent is not a vocal leader and right now he is probably too pre-occupied with his own poor form to direct team mates.

That's not to say that such a feature cannot be developed in some players but no-one stands out.

Maybe Mason Wood, who is having a very good year and plays all over the ground can be designated to take on such a role, likewise Bradley Hill has the seniority and breadth of experience to help guide the young blokes.

One option is for the coaches to designate 4 game day leaders: defence, midfield, attack, on-ball, and make them accountable at the breaks and post game.

The point is that lack of onfield leadership has cost games, especially the unexpected loss to Hawthorn, and has to be fixed....

[saynta]

Please, continue with the snide comments- it’s your go

You’re a sniper

We could also select a Billings or McCartin or Hugh Goddard with DPs
Not all DPs end up stars, many are either just GOPs or busts


We will not go all chips in for DPs - not under Ross

He’s more concerned with his reputation than the club

Yep, Thhat's two things you got right in this post.

I think fans are starting to wake up to the
'master coach' and posters are jack of teflon are his almost continuous insults and attempted put downs.

I think fans are sick of you nonsense and hatred for our coach full stop
It’s embarrassing
But you’ll come crawling if we start winning that I’m sure ..

I would love it if we actually started winning as I have far more faith in the list than you appear to have with your continual, put downs.

Snipers like you who have a hit list of players who they regularly denigrate, are well known to have personality defects.

I think the forum is also heartily sick of your offensive, abusive posts and your sickening puppy love of the current coach.

RTB by the way is the only saints coach that you haven't regularly insulted over the past 20 odd years so don't have a f****** go at me for pointing out that he ain't god.

If I could be f***ed, and I'm not, i could bump some of your more offensive posts about Thomas or Ratten for others to see how much you actually support the Saints,

[samuraisaint]

With the list we had in 2017-2019

Where should we have finished

Yes, Seb was the best of an average list - but you still have to be the best

In those years - the best players weren’t the problem - the bad ones were.

It’s like 84-86 (we were appalling) was it Greg Burns fault?
No - he was the best player!

I remember hearing a story about a team meeting before a game at Windy Hill during this period.
It may be apochryphal, but the story goes that the coach at the time asked if there was anybody in the room who didn't think we'd win - Burns put his hand up.
The coach asked why not, and as rumour has it, Burnsie said, 'I just don't.'

Side story - a mate was living in Snake Valley (where Burnsie hailed from), and I went up there, and if there is anywhere in the world you would think a guy like Burnsie would come from, that is it! Another mate of mine had a car sticker from there that said 'Saints come from Snake Valley' on it with a Saint stick figure picture. Don't know the significance of that, but I'd hazard a guess.
Funnily enough, in Snake Valley there is a little wooden sign pointing down a dirt track (wouldn't call it a road). Went for a bit of an explore, even more God forsaken! The wooden sign said Mitiamo!