Are we seeing the old 2010 RTB traits

[Teflon]

Are we admitting Ratts and even more so Richo also had poor lists - yet??


Or did they have good lists, and they were the problem?

Because I don’t remember a season since 2012 where I thought we had a finals capable list (Pelchen saw to that!) in fact we had some putrid teams in that period! - not even 2020 when we actually played finals!

I mean Seb Ross is bagged incessantly on here, and twice he was voted the best performed player on the list!

one thing that can't be discounted with regards to our list quality since 2009 - 20012, is the impact on the talent pool with the entry of the franchise teams. Ironically Lyon has returned to the club at a time Tasmania will drain the talent pool arguably more than what GWS and GCS combined as Tasmania will be a basket case for decades.

That challenge aside though, what actually is Lyon's plan to procure a quality list, has anyone heard what his plan is?

What do you think he should do Vort?
I mean you’ve constantly told us the list is shyte and he’ll need all his 4 years
Go…..

[Teflon]

Umm

Sicily?

Umm non selection of proven players?

Use of Gresham

Nah… he didn’t have a good day

Sharman placed on Sicily, ok in 3rd, beaten in 4th. What/who do you suggest would have stopped Sicily? Hawks have specific tactics to isolate him.
Non selection of who?
Use of Gresham - ??

A missed chest mark from a win.

Not saying errors weren't made, I thought Sinclair should have stayed in his HB/mid role, but the player's minds didn't seem on the job. That's on Ross, as he said. Players didn't have a good day, with few exceptions.

I thought the coach didn't matter?

Good post
Lyon also stated he coaches actions - players once on field have to execute as Dixon said on Fox, that’s not Lyons job that’s on the players
That’s on the on field leaders like Seb Ross, Like Steele Like Crouch - facts are they wilted
It wasn’t Lyon bombing the ball into 50 setting up Sicily with gifts …that was players like Seb etc
These same experienced leaders have shown time and again when heat comes on they falter.
We will not go forward with them and if Lyon doesn’t want to end up like other coaches he’d be wise to weed them out now
Oh and for the record - I think we have a far better system than what Ratten could out in place I’m confident the club (as insiders like Tony 74 have alluded to) have the right coaching structure in place
It’s time to turn the flame up on a few senior players - and I don’t give a **** if they won a BnF 4 years ago !

[B.M]

If he has a better system - which maybe he does

Logic would say

With pretty much the same list - he should win more games then Ratten (11)

It’s a results business and the proof will be in the pudding


Loved your assessor the 09 GF especially Luke Ball’s game?!
At halftime we were dominating and Ball was one of the leading ball getters on the ground - in suitable conditions

After HT Geelong hit back and Ball watched the game from the pine

Ball had the most touches per TOG in the game

[SaintPav]

He forgot to put Luke Ball back on.

It slipped his mind.

[B.M]

Cost us a premiership imo

There are many other decisions over the years that have also cost us a premiership

[Teflon]

He forgot to put Luke Ball back on.

It slipped his mind.

That’s not his fault
The system failed him
Hahaha
This is fun

[Teflon]

Cost us a premiership imo

There are many other decisions over the years that have also cost us a premiership

Premierships don’t come down to 1 decision grasshopper
You’re the font of all footy wisdom …u should know that

[Teflon]

If he has a better system - which maybe he does

Logic would say

With pretty much the same list - he should win more games then Ratten (11)

It’s a results business and the proof will be in the pudding


Loved your assessor the 09 GF especially Luke Ball’s game?!
At halftime we were dominating and Ball was one of the leading ball getters on the ground - in suitable conditions

After HT Geelong hit back and Ball watched the game from the pine

Ball had the most touches per TOG in the game

So even IF we’ve had more injuries than any other side first half of the year it’s Lyons fault his system (we are 7-4 and 5th I might add…most had us bottom 4.. with a new coach) isn’t showing us results??
How many blow outs did we have under Brett?
How many under Lyon so far????
And what’s your theory on 50 to 18 inside 50’s at HT in 09 GF and players like Schneider literally missing from goal square???
Bad coaching ?? Luke Ball woulda fixed all that…

[SaintPav]

RTB lost it when he couldn’t neutralise the Hayes/Bytel tag.

That was a Bomber master stroke move. Had BALLS to make that move which was a match winner.

Also, needed to free up Roo.

Conditions were shite for a team that played under the roof.

What was our total accumulated losing margin for the year?

21 points?

For an entire season?!

f****** extraordinary!!

But instead, we get s*** piled on us.

I understand we did not win the silver ware but this was a total statistical outlier and won’t be repeated for at least another 50 years.

[Teflon]

RTB lost it when he couldn’t neutralise the Hayes/Bytel tag.

That was a Bomber master stroke move. Had BALLS to make that move which was a match winner.

Also, needed to free up Roo.

Conditions were shite for a team that played under the roof.

What was our total accumulated losing margin for the year?

21 points?

For an entire season?!

f****** extraordinary!!

But instead, we get s*** piled on us.

I understand we did not win the silver ware but this was a total statistical outlier and won’t be repeated for at least another 50 years.

I think Bartel did an excellent job on Lenny I’m less convinced Luke Ball was our smoking gun
I was at the game and can tell you now it was obvious the dominance we had in that first half had not translated to scoreboard pressure
Cats were a super side - just like Rd 14 they were always going to come
Good sides take their chances - we **** it
Opposite of Dogs in prelim who had us on toast early - didn’t take their chances
Yes coaching moves can help but end of the day you win 19-0 in a year the side that runs on the field need to execute
Ours didn’t
End story.
Luke Ball “what ifs” are just after the fact BS for mine even tho Lyon admitted he forgot about him

[SaintPav]

WTF did I even bring up about Luke Ball in my previous post?!

I along with many reading this were at the game.

Get a grip.

[B.M]

What sort of coach - forgets about a player in the biggest game

That’s embarrassing either a lie or incompetence

[SaintPav]

What sort of coach - forgets about a player in the biggest game

That’s embarrassing either a lie or incompetence

It was a lie because obviously RTB didn’t have faith in LB to play the way he wanted.

[Teflon]

What sort of coach - forgets about a player in the biggest game

That’s embarrassing either a lie or incompetence

Forgetful one?

[Teflon]

WTF did I even bring up about Luke Ball in my previous post?!

I along with many reading this were at the game.

Get a grip.

Apologies
The argument on here usually goes
1. Bartel shut down Hayes
2. Lyon shoulda then out Luke Ball
3. Yeah…that’s what cost us the GF
4. Lyons a shyte coach
5. I hate Ross Lyon

I realise now you weren’t adhering to SS logic 101 and I apologise for that.

[SaintPav]

Ok.

[meher baba]

Teflon: how many posts have you made in the past few days defending your hero? And/or bagging our list? Which,as BM points out, if it is so terribly bad then why did the club need to sack Ratts and bring in a coach who is hardly renowned for his ability to rebuild broken teams?

Your prescription for the future - stop trying to make the finals and focus on blooming young players and then “hit the draft hard” (whatever TF that means) - is also wrong.

The club is fighting a desperate rearguard action for members, fans and sponsors in the context of a coming expansion. If we drop down to the cellar again, the AFL might decide it’s time to shift us out of Melbourne or even merge us. We need to start making the finals again more often than not. I assume that’s Lyon’s mission from Bassett.

It doesn’t feel like we’re particularly close to a premiership right now. But 2012-22 has been a decade of BS. Making the finals for the next 2-3 years would be a great improvement and might bring back the fans.

I hope Lyon can do it. I don’t think he did well last game: his defensive structure failed and his attacking strategies were neutralised by Sicily and, as we’ve seen from him in the past, he can be disinclined to mix things up too much when the team is on the back foot.

If we produce a similarly hapless performance against Sydney you’ll have your work cut out defending him on here.

And enough with the personal insults already. They just make you look childish.

[meher baba]

A little more re the list. It’s actually older than many people seem to realise.

Ok, so we do a clean out at the end of the year and magically somehow recruit some young guns with the third round draft picks we would get for our favourite whipping boys. Those young guns will take at least 3-4 years to develop into finals quality players. By then, who will be left on our list for them to play alongside? Wood, Membrey, Ross, Webster, Crouch and Hill will surely be retired. Steele, Marshall, Howard, Butler and Wilkie will be in their 30s and Gresham will be close to 30.

Some of these players are a fair way short of being champions, but there are a lot of them that will need to be replaced in just a few years time.

So a rebuild a la the early 2000s in which we drop to the bottom again and then rocket up seems to me to be a mission impossible within less than another decade. And the club can’t afford to wait that long.

So I reckon that, in many ways, our “window” is right now. Not necessarily the window to a premiership, but the window to some years of being a credible threat. Perhaps that’s the best we can hope for right now.

[CQ SAINT]

A little more re the list. It’s actually older than many people seem to realise.

Ok, so we do a clean out at the end of the year and magically somehow recruit some young guns with the third round draft picks we would get for our favourite whipping boys. Those young guns will take at least 3-4 years to develop into finals quality players. By then, who will be left on our list for them to play alongside? Wood, Membrey, Ross, Webster, Crouch and Hill will surely be retired. Steele, Marshall, Howard, Butler and Wilkie will be in their 30s and Gresham will be close to 30.

Some of these players are a fair way short of being champions, but there are a lot of them that will need to be replaced in just a few years time.

So a rebuild a la the early 2000s in which we drop to the bottom again and then rocket up seems to me to be a mission impossible within less than another decade. And the club can’t afford to wait that long.

So I reckon that, in many ways, our “window” is right now. Not necessarily the window to a premiership, but the window to some years of being a credible threat. Perhaps that’s the best we can hope for right now.

Hang on.
So you think by achieving record membership numbers 3 years in a row, our 'fans' are deserting us.
At beginning of COVID we were destined for financial irrelevance but managed it better than any other club.
We have paid down half the debt we owed, that was crippling us and we took profit each year.
We have improved our liquid assets immensely, in that time and if you haven't been, there are fans at the club everyday. Ex champions are involved, others are hanging around the place and back in the media doing bits and sponsorship money is flowing and growing.
Our list is older than many seem to realise, because after 4 years, everyone will be older and a drop down the ladder in the early 2000's had us in a window in 2004-2010, but we don't have time for that, so, we should just focus on what, Ross, Billings, Gresham, Mackenzie and Coffield because, we are actually in a window now? What are you saying man?

[Vortex]

Are we admitting Ratts and even more so Richo also had poor lists - yet??


Or did they have good lists, and they were the problem?

Because I don’t remember a season since 2012 where I thought we had a finals capable list (Pelchen saw to that!) in fact we had some putrid teams in that period! - not even 2020 when we actually played finals!

I mean Seb Ross is bagged incessantly on here, and twice he was voted the best performed player on the list!

one thing that can't be discounted with regards to our list quality since 2009 - 20012, is the impact on the talent pool with the entry of the franchise teams. Ironically Lyon has returned to the club at a time Tasmania will drain the talent pool arguably more than what GWS and GCS combined as Tasmania will be a basket case for decades.

That challenge aside though, what actually is Lyon's plan to procure a quality list, has anyone heard what his plan is?

What do you think he should do Vort?
I mean you’ve constantly told us the list is shyte and he’ll need all his 4 years
Go…..

If the club has has been around for 150 years and had 47 coaches with only 1 premiership that we won by a point which was a shanked kick then how the hell would I know how what the magic trick is for procuring a list talented enough to win flags.

That's my whole point, football followers are stuck in the mouse wheel of belief that the coach is the messiah, some more than others, especially at our club which is why we churn through coaches more than most.

Hell if I knew what the magic trick was I'd be on 360 every night with Whately and Robbo bumping my gums.

Has the life size photo of Rossy turn up yet that I mailed to your house?

[saynta]

If he has a better system - which maybe he does

Logic would say

With pretty much the same list - he should win more games then Ratten (11)

It’s a results business and the proof will be in the pudding


Loved your assessor the 09 GF especially Luke Ball’s game?!
At halftime we were dominating and Ball was one of the leading ball getters on the ground - in suitable conditions

After HT Geelong hit back and Ball watched the game from the pine

Ball had the most touches per TOG in the game

Spot on mate.

[saynta]

He forgot to put Luke Ball back on.

It slipped his mind.

Yep, what a f****** joke. Only it ain't a bit funny. And posters wonder why I have had a hard time warming to the guy the second time around.

[skeptic]

A little more re the list. It’s actually older than many people seem to realise.

Ok, so we do a clean out at the end of the year and magically somehow recruit some young guns with the third round draft picks we would get for our favourite whipping boys. Those young guns will take at least 3-4 years to develop into finals quality players. By then, who will be left on our list for them to play alongside? Wood, Membrey, Ross, Webster, Crouch and Hill will surely be retired. Steele, Marshall, Howard, Butler and Wilkie will be in their 30s and Gresham will be close to 30.

Some of these players are a fair way short of being champions, but there are a lot of them that will need to be replaced in just a few years time.

So a rebuild a la the early 2000s in which we drop to the bottom again and then rocket up seems to me to be a mission impossible within less than another decade. And the club can’t afford to wait that long.

So I reckon that, in many ways, our “window” is right now. Not necessarily the window to a premiership, but the window to some years of being a credible threat. Perhaps that’s the best we can hope for right now.

Hang on.
So you think by achieving record membership numbers 3 years in a row, our 'fans' are deserting us.
At beginning of COVID we were destined for financial irrelevance but managed it better than any other club.
We have paid down half the debt we owed, that was crippling us and we took profit each year.
We have improved our liquid assets immensely, in that time and if you haven't been, there are fans at the club everyday. Ex champions are involved, others are hanging around the place and back in the media doing bits and sponsorship money is flowing and growing.
Our list is older than many seem to realise, because after 4 years, everyone will be older and a drop down the ladder in the early 2000's had us in a window in 2004-2010, but we don't have time for that, so, we should just focus on what, Ross, Billings, Gresham, Mackenzie and Coffield because, we are actually in a window now? What are you saying man?

You seem to know more about this than I. Last I heard (and I haven’t been paying attention for a while), we were like $13mill in the red.

Where are we at at the moment?

[Vortex]

Our financial improvement after COVID was amongst the worst in the comp but the books were improved with a sizeable donation to help the admin deflect considerably heat emanating from GT and the Dentist.

Dem da facts.

[meher baba]

We're doing ok with memberships, but our crowd numbers remain fickle. And another plunge to the bottom will start driving members away again.

What I'm trying to say is that, even if it were a good football strategy to stop trying to win every game and focus on developing the young players and draft picks (and I certainly don't agree that it would be), it's not a commercially-viable strategy at this point in time. In a few years' time, with a Tassie club and potentially another club from WA or SA or the NT or the Riverina or somewhere, there will be a widespread call for a couple of clubs to be knocked out or, at best, merged with struggling interstate clubs (probably Tassie and the GC). And they won't be looking at interstate clubs: the focus will be on the struggling Melbourne clubs. The Roos and us are going to be the primary targets. But it will be much harder for the AFL to do anything to us if have been making regular finals appearances.