At the Bye summary

[older saint]

7-4 at the bye. Most i think would have taken that before round 1 , however there is 7-4 and there is 7-4.
I think the strategy, which isn't new for teams that miss the finals, was to have us fitter than everyone else at the start f the season. This was worth additional wins, which will be very important come seasons end. Beating Freo and WB were clearly as we were better prepared at season start. From there confidence grew and very good wins v Ess and Carlton and a solid performance against the bench mark Collingwood.
While Port , who is playing as well as anyone, is a "respectable loss" i thought early in the second quarter we started to lairise a little and opened the door for the opposition who kicked it down. Since then smacked by Adelaide, Workman like v GWS (although they have trumped that form) and going through the motions v Hawthorn and got the result we deserved based on performance.
The door to play finals is still open and with solid performances should end up 7 or 8 which would be a great first years performance for a season by the coach's own public comments is assessing the list - ala 2007.

From an individual player perspective (trying to remove all personal bias) there have been many positives:
- Crouch - fittest i have seen since 2017 at Adelaide and probably in top 3 in B & F behind Sinclair and Wilkie
- Sinclair - shown AA last year wasn't a fluke and is not the best player on this side
- Wilkie - AA form and should get a gig this year with that. Has held the backline together at times with inconsistent performances from his 2 tall counterparts.
- Stocker - got for nothing and has shown to be hard at it, good ball user and gone past Paton for small deep defender.
- Wood - AA wingman IMO, although the AA team tend to fill the wings with midfielders that miss out. clearly a late bloomer and the articles released by the club show how important he is to the group off the field also
- Brynes - The other wing. Played every game and having career best season. Has found a role and embraced it. test is now it is a lo9ng season for a guy who hasn't played at this level week in week out before but like what i see (Whipping boy for many here)
- Development of NWM, Owens, Phillipou , Caminiti
- Marshall - no 1 ruck role suits and been great , bye coming at a good time .
- Clark ( until this week) and gresham getting a good run at things from an injury perspective.
- Higgins and Butler as small forwards providing pressure and kicking goals
- King returns


The questions to be answered in the next 12 games:
- Can Billings get back in best 22?
- Can Coffield/Hayes play the rest of the season when they return - be that Sandy or AFL
- Can Jones or McKenzie get back on the park at all
- Can Howard re find some form
- How long will it take for Windy to learn the plan and patterns required as too good talent wise for VFL
- Will door open for Bytel ( injury most likely) to go in and play multiple weeks to answer the question where he sits at AFL level.
- Will we see anymore debutantes?

Overall from a league level perspective with Collingwood being a 10 and WC being a 1 i think we sit with a 6.75.
From an expectation perspective based on what we have on the list and what we have done it is an 8 to me

[Otiman]

- Can Billings get back in best 22? Only to build his trade value
- Can Coffield/Hayes play the rest of the season when they return - be that Sandy or AFL Depends on Injuries. I think both will be focused on 2024.
- Can Jones or McKenzie get back on the park at all - No, both delisted at years end.
- Can Howard re find some form - He is in career best form
- How long will it take for Windy to learn the plan and patterns required as too good talent wise for VFL - He will play against Sydney.
- Will door open for Bytel?No. It hasn't so far and I can't see anything changing unless coaches have a change of heart.
- Will we see anymore debutantes? Hotton, Heath, Keeler

[Sanctorum]

Excellent summary oldersaint, I agree with your assessments but would give the team only a 6.50 pass mark rather than your 8.

The team's ability to withstand the absence of a number of key players and play so well up to and including round 7 was outstanding.

In round 8 against North Melbourne and in every game since the team has failed to replicate that form and are probably lucky that other results in round 11 has kept them in 5th place going into the bye.

I expect that in the next 2 weeks the coaches and players will carry out a thorough review to analyse what worked so well in rounds 1-7, yet failed so badly in 8 -11, and come up with strategies to bring their best form to the SCG on Thursday night June 8!

It makes no sense that Max King has come back into this side and kicked 2 bags of 4, and yet the rest of the team has largely gone off the boil, that's just crazy!!!

[Otiman]

After some time to settle down and think about the last few games, my read is this, it's not meant to sound like excuses - just telling it how I see it.

We came with a gameplan unknown to the opposition coaches, executed it very well in the first few weeks and caught teams off guard. There was no ability to counter to our gameplan mid-game.
Teams that were touted as good (Carlton, Freo, Bulldogs) when we played them showed they were not actually in good form at the time.
Our red hot start caught the eye of opposition coaches, who spent the time to dissect our game plan and counter it.
When our players realised that their effort was not always rewarded, (Collingwood, Port Adelaide) it created some doubt in players minds, and lowered effort (not consciously)
Injury list aside, we were cherry ripe in round 1. The toll of 10 weeks of hard footy has taken hold. Particularly Crouch and Steele who we rely on heavily.
Our training plan was run based, and we have been shown up in the physical side of the game (contested ball, stoppages)

Our players are good enough. Our list is what it is. We are here to win games of footy.

If not now, when?

[Devilhead]

7 and 4 gets us a 7.4 rating ..... good but not great

We are ahead in terms of win losses where I expected us to be but its clear we are still nowhere really near it and have a lot to work on given our last month of middling football

[Templar]

I listened to the explanation of keeping Windhager in the twos for a month of extended 'learnings" and to have him focus on his deficiencies.

It sounded positive.

So I wonder if they can now rotate Windy back into the firsts and swap him out for another mid so that they can also have a turn of learnings and focussing on their deficiencies.

Never too old to learn and if the twos is the best place for it so be it.

[shanegrambeau]

We are flying.

The cruising altitude was 35,000 feet,
We just descended to 15,000 at 5,000 feet a minute (as per last four Rounds)
Small icing problem
The captain seems to be lacking oxygen.

[Vortex]

Ratts was in front this time last year, just saying... and we look as shaky, if not shakier than we did at the same mark this time last year.

Time to give the magic wand a polish.

[Teflon]

Team last year were playing quarter here quarter there last year relying on bursts of individual brilliance
Not so this year - the whole team have bought in
Problem is they can’t sustain it as sides have put work into our key play makers and we don’t have the cattle to go next level up
Finals a bonus
Just play kids work out plodders focus on draft

[mr six o'clock]

Where are we at
To quote a once famous man ( if that's still acceptable)
We are st kilda
We're a fuel injected suicide machine
We're a rocker
We're a roller
We're a out of controlla
We are the Knightrider baby !!!!!!!

Yeah

[Teflon]

Where are we at
To quote a once famous man ( if that's still acceptable)
We are st kilda
We're a fuel injected suicide machine
We're a rocker
We're a roller
We're a out of controlla
We are the Knightrider baby !!!!!!!

Yeah

Cundaliny wants his hand back…

[mr six o'clock]

Where are we at
To quote a once famous man ( if that's still acceptable)
We are st kilda
We're a fuel injected suicide machine
We're a rocker
We're a roller
We're a out of controlla
We are the Knightrider baby !!!!!!!

Yeah

Cundaliny wants his hand back…

[Zed]

All of us would have taken 7-4 at the start of the season.

New coach new system new energy caught every one off guard and every media expert was pulling the system apart on tv in the first 4 weeks as nobody could believe we were top 2
So we finally got worked out and it’s been death by a thousand cuts since then as everything starts to revert back to how it was in the back half of 2022.
Even the famed fitness has levelled off - Hawks had no trouble running over the top of us - wouldn’t have happened in the first 3 rounds. Is that a by product of Nick Walsh leaving or ever other club getting their match fitness levels up ?

Will need to do something different in the 2nd half of the season to win enough games to make finals. If DMac, Billings, Membrey can all regain full fitness it puts selection pressure on. Bytel and Windhager bring new energy and need to get an opportunity. Jack Hayes could be such a structurally important piece in the last 4-5 games if he can get back as he releases Mitchito into the midfield. Similarly, Zac Jones could add the burst speed that’s been missing. But Ross needs to swing the axe more often to see what combinations are going to spark. If he doesn’t , this slow slide to 10th - 12th position will be heart breaking for everyone

[Teflon]

All of us would have taken 7-4 at the start of the season.

New coach new system new energy caught every one off guard and every media expert was pulling the system apart on tv in the first 4 weeks as nobody could believe we were top 2
So we finally got worked out and it’s been death by a thousand cuts since then as everything starts to revert back to how it was in the back half of 2022.
Even the famed fitness has levelled off - Hawks had no trouble running over the top of us - wouldn’t have happened in the first 3 rounds. Is that a by product of Nick Walsh leaving or ever other club getting their match fitness levels up ?

Will need to do something different in the 2nd half of the season to win enough games to make finals. If DMac, Billings, Membrey can all regain full fitness it puts selection pressure on. Bytel and Windhager bring new energy and need to get an opportunity. Jack Hayes could be such a structurally important piece in the last 4-5 games if he can get back as he releases Mitchito into the midfield. Similarly, Zac Jones could add the burst speed that’s been missing. But Ross needs to swing the axe more often to see what combinations are going to spark. If he doesn’t , this slow slide to 10th - 12th position will be heart breaking for everyone

I think we must slide Zed
I’m sorta in the camp….as soon as we snap out of this “we are a genuine finals contender” crap the better
Once that happens I think Lyon will play kids strip out the cloggers - he’ll have no choice
I just see no benefit limping into 7 or 8 for a one off finals appearance

[B.M]

Tank?

[SaintPav]

Yep.

This argument happens every single year.

[Yorkeys]

Free-falling.
Bye as in bye bye.
If the black box is discovered the read out will say something like "we always knew this would happen because......(Insert platitude).

[Life Long Saint]

All of us would have taken 7-4 at the start of the season.

Not if one of the losses was against Hawthorn in the manner it was. That was every bit as bad as the loss to Essendon last season.

Losses to Collingwood, Port, and Adelaide were excusable. We could have won two of those.
The Freo, Bulldogs, and Carlton wins were unexpected based on last season's form.
Swap the Hawthorn loss with a loss against any of the three mentioned above and, yes, I'd take 7-4.

[Teflon]

Tank?

Lol do you think we’ll need to????
Look at the way we are playing
Do you think the list is up to it??
Get off the fence Martin
Sebs BnFs mean squat now
Are you telling us we are top 4 side ??

[Teflon]

All of us would have taken 7-4 at the start of the season.

Not if one of the losses was against Hawthorn in the manner it was. That was every bit as bad as the loss to Essendon last season.

Losses to Collingwood, Port, and Adelaide were excusable. We could have won two of those.
The Freo, Bulldogs, and Carlton wins were unexpected based on last season's form.
Swap the Hawthorn loss with a loss against any of the three mentioned above and, yes, I'd take 7-4.

I don’t think Adelaide loss was excusable
That said the GWS win appears better than we are giving them credit for
Take your point tho - the way we are playing is the concern
We’ve lost the manic pressure but equally lost that attacking speedy transition

[cwrcyn]

We all know that based on talent alone we are like a mid strength beer.

We knew it last year and we knew it at the start of this year.

When the team is focussed and full of energy, we are solid, but as soon as that energy and focus is not 100%, we don't have the talent to compensate.

From a pure talent perspective, we are at about 70% of where we need to be to seriously challenge.

To make up the talent deficit will take two more years. One aspect of that will be the growth and development in players like Windhager, Phillipou, Caminiti, Owens. Wanganeen-Milera, Keeler, and Hotton.

The other and most obvious aspect is drafting the talent or picking it up via free agency. More likely the former than the latter.

Chris Toce had better be on his game

[cwrcyn]

I still believe our alliance with Sandringham is unhelpful to player development. Watching Sandy play is an tortured experience. The standard is terrible. It's pretty much unwatchable and I see little that helps our youngsters prepare for senior football

[Life Long Saint]

All of us would have taken 7-4 at the start of the season.

Not if one of the losses was against Hawthorn in the manner it was. That was every bit as bad as the loss to Essendon last season.

Losses to Collingwood, Port, and Adelaide were excusable. We could have won two of those.
The Freo, Bulldogs, and Carlton wins were unexpected based on last season's form.
Swap the Hawthorn loss with a loss against any of the three mentioned above and, yes, I'd take 7-4.

I don’t think Adelaide loss was excusable
That said the GWS win appears better than we are giving them credit for
Take your point tho - the way we are playing is the concern
We’ve lost the manic pressure but equally lost that attacking speedy transition

Even after Adelaide beat Brisbane and should have beaten Collingwood at the Adelaide Oval?
I think you're undervaluing the Crows at home.
The way we played was ordinary, but I counted that one as a loss before the game was played.

[Teflon]

All of us would have taken 7-4 at the start of the season.

Not if one of the losses was against Hawthorn in the manner it was. That was every bit as bad as the loss to Essendon last season.

Losses to Collingwood, Port, and Adelaide were excusable. We could have won two of those.
The Freo, Bulldogs, and Carlton wins were unexpected based on last season's form.
Swap the Hawthorn loss with a loss against any of the three mentioned above and, yes, I'd take 7-4.

I don’t think Adelaide loss was excusable
That said the GWS win appears better than we are giving them credit for
Take your point tho - the way we are playing is the concern
We’ve lost the manic pressure but equally lost that attacking speedy transition

Even after Adelaide beat Brisbane and should have beaten Collingwood at the Adelaide Oval?
I think you're undervaluing the Crows at home.
The way we played was ordinary, but I counted that one as a loss before the game was played.

No doubt difficult assignment but 50 point loss excusable?
I like RTB but even I can’t excuse that

[saintbob]

7-4 looks good but teams have now work us out, so a change up is required, hopefully RTB can tweak a few things going forward and get us back on track.
We’ve got a pretty soft draw in the run home so I’m confident we’ll stay in the 8, but when the whips start cracking in the finals we’ll be found wanting.

We really need to change up the midfield, Crouch, Steele and Ross have been good but they need a chop out. Get Windy, Owens and Phillipou in there on a regular basis and Sincs needs to play more in the guts than he is currently.

If Membrey doesn’t play then we need another tall option up forward and preferably not Cordy or Campbell.

Give Heath a chance, he may not be 100% ready but maybe just maybe he can adapt quickly at a higher level.
We’re kidding ourselves if we think poor old Roma can ruck all year on his own and I’d rather get games into Heath than the other 2.