Our midfield

[The Fireman]

Watched the GWS game again and have come to the conclusion I have been a little too harsh on the midfield, they did try their guts out and performed better than I first gave them credit...possibly because of the nerves of the moment.

and yes Clarke is a gun , have always maintained that. Bloody good courageous footballer.

now to take those Hawks apart.

[Teflon]

I am not suggesting he will be a GOP forever, just that this year he has been pulled back from doing anything 'fancy' and focusing on the basics.

Reading everyones comments it sounds plausible, and that at some point he will be unleashed again. At least I hope so.

I don’t see it that way at all
Clarke doing flashy things on outside looks nice
Clarke using his vision, deft kicks out of congestion to going forward looks ugly
Where’s the overall greatest impact?
I’d argue it’s his vision/work in congestion now that’s added another dimension to a workmanlike midfield
I think Hayes and co have it right
Leave Clarke to develop that midfield game we need him too

[Brunswicksainter]

As we are playing Hawthorn this week I thing Crouch and Ross should be managed and Windy and Bytel come in. Plus Membrey for Owens

Why is Bytel better than Ross?

The only salient things i hear about Bytel is, he is a goer in traffic but slow on the outside.

Yeah not sold on Bytel he’s had 2 coaches now and ample chances, surely if he was as good as some think on this forum he would have broken out by now. Windhager is a different story he should be playing ahead of Ross.

Ample chances? 21 games, a bunch of them as sub.

I would consider 21 games as sub as more than an ample chance. He hasn’t shown anything at AFL level to date. Nothing against him I hope he turns out good.

Ample opportunity at AFL level with half your games as sub?? Yeah sure….

You left out 20+ games that he was named as an emergency as well….so I guess you’re right

I just don’t agree 21 games with half as sub is more opportunity than 95% of fringe players on AFL lists get. Why are you all pushing this weird narrative that he hasn’t been given a chance. He’s been give significant chances to show what he can do.

[Brunswicksainter]

As we are playing Hawthorn this week I thing Crouch and Ross should be managed and Windy and Bytel come in. Plus Membrey for Owens

Why is Bytel better than Ross?

The only salient things i hear about Bytel is, he is a goer in traffic but slow on the outside.

Yeah not sold on Bytel he’s had 2 coaches now and ample chances, surely if he was as good as some think on this forum he would have broken out by now. Windhager is a different story he should be playing ahead of Ross.

Ample chances? 21 games, a bunch of them as sub.

I would consider 21 games as sub as more than an ample chance. He hasn’t shown anything at AFL level to date. Nothing against him I hope he turns out good.

Ample opportunity at AFL level with half your games as sub?? Yeah sure….

You left out 20+ games that he was named as an emergency as well….so I guess you’re right

I just don’t agree 21 games with half as sub is more opportunity than 95% of fringe players on AFL lists get. Why are you all pushing this weird narrative that he hasn’t been given a chance. He’s been give significant chances to show what he can do.

No hit on him I hope he gets at least two more chances this season to have a run at it. Although it’s objectively wrong to suggest he’s been held back and not given any opportunity in his career.

[Scollop]

You just said: it’s wrong to say he’s been held back and not given ‘any opportunity’

First you said Bytel has had ‘ample chances’ and now you’re changing the phrasing.

How do you think young players get development?

Jack impressed when the new coaches came in and he had a very good preseason. He was selected for round 1 after showing good signs in practice games that he could have an impact as a mid.

Although he didn’t get a large number of touches in round 1, he got some crucial clearances when the game was still close against Freo. He was unlucky that he got an infection to a cut in his knee, otherwise he would have stayed in the team.

The team was winning and Jack was only ever brought in as a sub. He never got a full game after round 1. I don’t call that ‘ample opportunity’

[shanegrambeau]

all I can say is ‘be as competitive as possible each week’

Being fair and nice to players is not a consideration

They have managers

Managers can pretend to do the ‘caring’

Of course one must fulfill all obligations to correct political alignment at every corner - Heil Hitler

[The_Dud]

At this point why give so much game time to Crouch and Ross at the expense of the likes of Windy and Bytel?

You can’t say they’re delivering week in and week out to earn their spot anymore.

[lewdogs]

At this point why give so much game time to Crouch and Ross at the expense of the likes of Windy and Bytel?

You can’t say they’re delivering week in and week out to earn their spot anymore.

Crouch was our best mid today by some margin wasn't he?

[Teflon]

At this point why give so much game time to Crouch and Ross at the expense of the likes of Windy and Bytel?

You can’t say they’re delivering week in and week out to earn their spot anymore.

Crouch was our best mid today by some margin wasn't he?

I think so
Ross is the one that needs to go - said it before I do not give a shyte about his previous BnF wins
We have to get Owens Windhager Bytel types through that midfield
Ross goes for mine
Good depth

[Impatient Sainter]

One word - substandard.

[SaintPav]

The midfield has been an issue for ten years and they still haven’t fixed it.

[Teflon]

Think this BF post and midfield comparison sums it up well:

*******

Our midfield was just smashed.
Literally every one of their midfielders had 25+ disposals
Moore -31
Newcombe -31
Day - 30
Nash -27
Impey 26
Worpel 24

Our midfield
Steele -14
Ross -16
Byrnes - 17
Gresh -15
Sinclair -18
Wood 18

Basically we just don't get enough ball.

It's getting to the time where we have to drop Ross and maybe rest Steele (what has happened to him)

Got to bring in bytel for Ross and windy for Steele.

We need to change the dynamic in the middle because it's been about 4 weeks and we keep getting undone by power players who can burst away from our slow ball winners. Very Carlton like what's happening to us

[Banger9798]

Worpel 24

So....not literally

[Teflon]

Worpel 24

So....not literally

Good post
That’s the key point

[Ghost Like]

Think this BF post and midfield comparison sums it up well:

*******

Our midfield was just smashed.
Literally every one of their midfielders had 25+ disposals
Moore -31
Newcombe -31
Day - 30
Nash -27
Impey 26
Worpel 24

Our midfield
Steele -14
Ross -16
Byrnes - 17
Gresh -15
Sinclair -18
Wood 18

Basically we just don't get enough ball.

It's getting to the time where we have to drop Ross and maybe rest Steele (what has happened to him)

Got to bring in bytel for Ross and windy for Steele.

We need to change the dynamic in the middle because it's been about 4 weeks and we keep getting undone by power players who can burst away from our slow ball winners. Very Carlton like what's happening to us

That's quite damming, in fact very damming. Then consider they jettisoned, arguably, their two best midfielders in Mitchell & O'Meara, putting faith and the acid on their young mids to get better.

It is definitely a balancing act but it is also an honest appraisal of each player, for the now and for the future.

[nobhead]

Crouch
Windy
Owens
Steele
Should be our starting midfield group.
Clark,sinclair,gresham rotating through there and nwm should be pushed up to the wing .put your good ball users on ball .

[lewdogs]

Those numbers are alarming. Particularly Steele's, suggests he didn't get going at any stage of the game. On stats alone it seems Crouch was the only one that showed up.

You can highlight other areas of the ground that didn't work but the simple fact is with those midfield numbers you'll lose nearly every week.

[Teflon]

Think this BF post and midfield comparison sums it up well:

*******

Our midfield was just smashed.
Literally every one of their midfielders had 25+ disposals
Moore -31
Newcombe -31
Day - 30
Nash -27
Impey 26
Worpel 24

Our midfield
Steele -14
Ross -16
Byrnes - 17
Gresh -15
Sinclair -18
Wood 18

Basically we just don't get enough ball.

It's getting to the time where we have to drop Ross and maybe rest Steele (what has happened to him)

Got to bring in bytel for Ross and windy for Steele.

We need to change the dynamic in the middle because it's been about 4 weeks and we keep getting undone by power players who can burst away from our slow ball winners. Very Carlton like what's happening to us

That's quite damming, in fact very damming. Then consider they jettisoned, arguably, their two best midfielders in Mitchell & O'Meara, putting faith and the acid on their young mids to get better.

It is definitely a balancing act but it is also an honest appraisal of each player, for the now and for the future.

Scary huh?
I can see IF we keep pretending we are a top 8 side ….that in 18 months Hawks will fly past us
Got to go draft now - seriously target kids
No trade ins
Top 10-15 picks and max them
I do not care about limping into 7/8 to be bundled out and start next year (in real terms) behind Hawks et al
I would tell Lyon - don’t care about wins rest year
Build me a top 4 list you got 12-18 months and I expect to be genuinely top 4

[B.M]

Does going to the draft work every time?

I thought we just needed a good coach

Now it’s the list???

We are good enough to be 7-4

The player who is disappointing imo is Gresham - he should be adding spit to the stoppages - never got his hands on it

Obviously Steele was poor - he looks a shell of the A Grade bull he has been
Ross is out of form - although he led the team for GAs
Sinclair didn’t get near it when in the middle
Crouch did what he does accumulates with grunt possessions

[Teflon]

Does going to the draft work every time?

I thought we just needed a good coach

Now it’s the list???

We are good enough to be 7-4

The player who is disappointing imo is Gresham - he should be adding spit to the stoppages - never got his hands on it

Obviously Steele was poor - he looks a shell of the A Grade bull he has been
Ross is out of form - although he led the team for GAs
Sinclair didn’t get near it when in the middle
Crouch did what he does accumulates with grunt possessions

Thanks that doesn’t take us forward after 6 years of mid table mediocrity tho
We do now have the coaches I agree - as Tony 74 points out…coaching is top notch
Next fix?
List
Hit draft stop fan boying Seb Ross he ain’t the answer
Lose the cliches

[B.M]

And the non use of Proven players ( esp Windhager) while Sharman, Caminiti and Phillipou struggle to impact

It’s Luke Ball all over again - fixated on what a player can’t do - he overlooks their talent and what they can produce

Dusty Martin cant defend and doesn’t work back to support the defenders
What he does do is win games off his own boot

Last year Windhager was a revelation as a mid - now he’s running around getting 40 in the twos

Billings can’t get a game because he had no pre season
King and Membrey came into the side off no pre season

So that’s a bulls*** excuse

[Teflon]

And the non use of Proven players ( esp Windhager) while Sharman, Caminiti and Phillipou struggle to impact

It’s Luke Ball all over again - fixated on what a player can’t do - he overlooks their talent and what they can produce

Dusty Martin cant defend and doesn’t work back to support the defenders
What he does do is win games off his own boot

Last year Windhager was a revelation as a mid - now he’s running around getting 40 in the twos

Billings can’t get a game because he had no pre season
King and Membrey came into the side off no pre season

So that’s a bulls*** excuse

You’re really comparing King coming straight back in as a key power forward (when we had a clear gap) to Billing’s whose role is based on running…with no pre season ??
Who you dropping to put Billing’s in off his mid 20s possession game on weekend btw????
Your utter “it’s Luke Ball it’s Luke Ball” is just Chicken Little nonsense
He’s explained it 3 times
The only fixation on this site is you with your dreamt up footy theories that then become LAW in your own mind
And calling Windhager “a revelation” get off the sauce
Nick Daicos IS a revelation
Windhager has shown signs - right now Owens has him covered by some margin
Could he become top notch? Clearly coaches think so that’s why they’re investing so much 1 on 1 development time into him
Not something we’ve done much of previously
I think it’s great
And when he does come on….doesn’t bode well for your poster boy Seb who can’t lower his eyes into forward 50 for love nor money…

[Teflon]

Does going to the draft work every time?

I thought we just needed a good coach

Now it’s the list???

We are good enough to be 7-4

The player who is disappointing imo is Gresham - he should be adding spit to the stoppages - never got his hands on it

Obviously Steele was poor - he looks a shell of the A Grade bull he has been
Ross is out of form - although he led the team for GAs
Sinclair didn’t get near it when in the middle
Crouch did what he does accumulates with grunt possessions

Ross had 3 touches in a half of football
Jogs along without the footy
And hit Sicily lace out multiple times
We are going nowhere with him in our midfield
Move on

[Teflon]

Think this BF post and midfield comparison sums it up well:

*******

Our midfield was just smashed.
Literally every one of their midfielders had 25+ disposals
Moore -31
Newcombe -31
Day - 30
Nash -27
Impey 26
Worpel 24

Our midfield
Steele -14
Ross -16
Byrnes - 17
Gresh -15
Sinclair -18
Wood 18

Basically we just don't get enough ball.

It's getting to the time where we have to drop Ross and maybe rest Steele (what has happened to him)

Got to bring in bytel for Ross and windy for Steele.

We need to change the dynamic in the middle because it's been about 4 weeks and we keep getting undone by power players who can burst away from our slow ball winners. Very Carlton like what's happening to us

That's quite damming, in fact very damming. Then consider they jettisoned, arguably, their two best midfielders in Mitchell & O'Meara, putting faith and the acid on their young mids to get better.

It is definitely a balancing act but it is also an honest appraisal of each player, for the now and for the future.

They played Sam Mitchell on Footy Class copping it at start of year for a few Hawk belting’s….he argued if I keep playing Omeara Mitchell etc then kids like Newcomb and McKenzie don’t play….
Guess who did the damage on weekend???
Forget finals play kids focus on the list if we do it now in 12 months we are a genuine up coming outfit

[B.M]

Disrespectful

Untrue

Ignorant

Don’t think he kicked it Sicily once?

Kicked it to the player who kicked the first goal
Kicked it to Butler from the pocket- goal