RTB gives this place a nod

[n1ck]

... but not posting often for the same reasons that alot of members dropped off - infighting, toxicity etc

it's not correct ... IMO

And herein is the dilemma ........................ right?

Because, after all, you've never agreed with that - and while you, singular you, like everyone, are entitled to your opinion - hundreds (maybe thousands?) disagreed, voted with their feet, and walked away en masse.

You can disagree with that statement all you like, but that is, and has been what happened. MANY regular, long-serving members and posters got sick of the bickering, the namecalling, the trolling, the harrassment and the haranguing... so they left. But you wouldn't know anything about that, right?

You can "IMO" all you like, and thats fine because its just your opinion, but it doesn't correlate with actual facts, actual conversations I and many others had back then and still talk about to this day.

You can pot shot anyone whos tried to make a difference in the past and clean this place up again for the many who left, and the many who might discover it in the future - but it's pretty clear your comment about this place being better without Simon or without anyone else, moderators etc, is borne purely out of the fact that there's been very little accountability and a group of members have essentially been left to run the asylum as they see fit and not for the benefit of the majority.

Simon didn't create this story of toxicity. He was the only one willing to try to work through it and fix it, because everyone else invested literally had had enough of it.

There are lots of good people who are and have been involved at many levels with this forum and your disdain towards the majority of them is really quite disrespectful.

This place has the ability to generate a crowd again. It has the ability to do some cool stuff - Q&As with coaches, players, administrators, former and current. Fans would enjoy that and gravitate to that just like they used to when we had more registered users than the actual footy club had members.

Pretty hard to imagine now if you didn't see it 20-25 years ago.

So, you know. Free speech and all that ra ra. 'Control paradigm' and all that ra ra is entertaining. But the sovcit mentality gets old pretty quick and the group of posters who ruined this place for so many and who are still enjoying their private little lunacy lagoon are at some point going to to have some decisions to make I would have thought.

[shanegrambeau]

... but not posting often for the same reasons that alot of members dropped off - infighting, toxicity etc

it's not correct ... IMO

And herein is the dilemma ........................ right?

Because, after all, you've never agreed with that - and while you, singular you, like everyone, are entitled to your opinion - hundreds (maybe thousands?) disagreed, voted with their feet, and walked away en masse.

You can disagree with that statement all you like, but that is, and has been what happened. MANY regular, long-serving members and posters got sick of the bickering, the namecalling, the trolling, the harrassment and the haranguing... so they left. But you wouldn't know anything about that, right?

You can "IMO" all you like, and thats fine because its just your opinion, but it doesn't correlate with actual facts, actual conversations I and many others had back then and still talk about to this day.

You can pot shot anyone whos tried to make a difference in the past and clean this place up again for the many who left, and the many who might discover it in the future - but it's pretty clear your comment about this place being better without Simon or without anyone else, moderators etc, is borne purely out of the fact that there's been very little accountability and a group of members have essentially been left to run the asylum as they see fit and not for the benefit of the majority.

Simon didn't create this story of toxicity. He was the only one willing to try to work through it and fix it, because everyone else invested literally had had enough of it.

There are lots of good people who are and have been involved at many levels with this forum and your disdain towards the majority of them is really quite disrespectful.

This place has the ability to generate a crowd again. It has the ability to do some cool stuff - Q&As with coaches, players, administrators, former and current. Fans would enjoy that and gravitate to that just like they used to when we had more registered users than the actual footy club had members.

Pretty hard to imagine now if you didn't see it 20-25 years ago.

So, you know. Free speech and all that ra ra. 'Control paradigm' and all that ra ra is entertaining. But the sovcit mentality gets old pretty quick and the group of posters who ruined this place for so many and who are still enjoying their private little lunacy lagoon are at some point going to to have some decisions to make I would have thought.

Thanks n1ck

Disclaimer
1) I only came along in 2019 and I wanted to reconnect to Australia and St Kilda
2) I noticed, even from the pre-COVID window through COVID into now, that some posters have disappeared
Beyond disclaimer
3) No doubt forums of his ilk all had a golden window up to about 2010, when Facebook etc. really took over
4) I think forums like this now have a second chance, more than an Indian summer, but a unique chance to be a platform that counts. why?
5) Why? Because clicks don't really matter. Cute pictures don't matter, etc. And peer-group pressure, even what might be a good effect..
6) It's somewhat rhetorical, of course..and it's competitive, but that isn't necessarily bad...it forces us to measure up..we call each other out for our BS..good stuff..maybe?
7) Of course, it means that there is no God, and that one must determine when to leave, or not, or when to venture back, etc.
8) I like it and I hope I am sharper for it

[asiu]

how many people would u like me to drag here N1ck
to give THEIR OPINION on why they left

how many of the old contributors
or their old postings on this very issue

Simon told people incessantly
firstly .. if u don't like it ... go and start your own website
then
if u don't like it ... go to Big Footballer
then
if u don't like it ... leave anyway
then
if u don't like it
i'll shut the place down

if Simon was about this site
where the bickering was on the FAN FORUM
why
was his first order of business
destroying the community on the General Forum

then in triumph
renaming it ... the NEW General Forum

why N1ck ?

brave enough to say why ????

but don't dare mention the P word

why then make the site All Ages
when Forum Boards were already passé
and the site has always been attractive to the older set

what did any of those decisions have to do with the so called bickering and toxicity on the Fan Forum
and a fair go for the contributors

i've also listened to a lot of posters
and they don't tell your version of the propagandised fairy tale

'by deceit we do war'

u'd know that quote N1ck ... yes ?

guess who the cannon fodder were

that was us

the contributors

without which , this place is nothing.

[Vortex]

Asiu speaks the Truth!

Simon and his two lieutenants killed the place, that is undisputable fact.

North Korea type control doesn't work in Australia, well all of Australia except Victoria.

The only way it does is if you engineer an incredibly virulent pathogen and then engineer a vaccine.

Create the problem, provide the solution, the North Korean Way.

How is my favourite PM gang this week, btw where is your leader?

[asiu]

or

u could ask this lot
what they thought /think

+ one small note for your attention

so as i don't have to rise above , again , your insinuation that
i might be the issue

i'm NOT on that list !!!

and as far as i know
neither were any of those posters operating in the now re-renamed ... General Forum

who'd have thunk that

BringBackMadDog (1/3)
- severe abuse and threatening behaviour

BigRed
- using a banned term to describe the coach

King12 (1/3)
- commenting negatively on a poster / abuse

Wayne42 (1/3)
- using a banned term to describe the coach

Devilhead (1/3)
- using a banned pornographic term to describe the ex-coach

HardSaint (1/3)
- using a banned pornographic term to describe the ex-coach

Degruch (1/3)
- using a banned pornographic term to describe the ex coach

Special (1/3)
- culturally inappropriate post

BarryGrogan (1/3)
- commenting negatively on a poster

Nick_BlueNRG (3/3) and a permanent nic ban as this multiple times the poster has been banned
- trolling
- trolling
- severe abuse

SunnyErnest (1/3)
- Trolling

HarryM (1/3)
- racism

AeonFlux (1/3)
- spamming forum



Enrico_Misso (3/3) - permanent ban
- racism
- homophobic comment
- homophobic comment

Secret Kiel (3/3)
- trolling
- Trolling / Baiting / Commenting Negatively on another poster
- Trolling

SaintPelican66 (3/3) - when returns will be banned if trolling
- Trolling
- Trolling
- Trolling

The Billings Method (3/3) - BANNED
- Directly commenting on another poster
- Baiting (through misrepresenting comments)
- Racist commentary

Ace (2/3)
- Political Posts in the fan forum
- Political Post in the fan forum

The_Dud (1/3)
- Baiting and Trolling

MickThomas (1/3)
- Demeaning a player beyond a reasonable level

Happy Feet (1/3)
- starting a threasd specifically to bait another poster

TonyH (1/3)
- trolling

Groupie1 (1/3)
- circumventing swear filter (severe)

1966 (1/3)
- political post

Magnifisaint (1/3)
abuse of fellow poster

outside66 (1/3)
abuse of fellow poster

db cooper (1/3)
trolling

Sainternist (1/3)
Threatening PM and abuse


Updated - 23/11/22

[asiu]

... and his two lieutenants

i need to say to that V

again , imo

both of those lads were FOLLOWING ORDERS

again , imo

they were the best Nods , given their circumstance

i personally , respect both of em.

[n1ck]

asiu rising above .......................

Now ive heard it all

I havent missed your stream of consciousnesses coming at me, I'll be honest. But thats okay.

Bottom line, there's alot that can be done from multiple angles to improve the forum again.

Technology. Infrastructure. Security. Moderation ... to name just a few.

I'm sure we'll chat more over the next few weeks and months.

Enjoy the rest of your day!

[asiu]

are u saying

u did not insinuate that i was the problem around here

what about ... straight shooting in speech for starters

and thanx

i en-joy every day

[Otiman]

I'll always play the ball and not the man, but in this case the topic is the people.

There were many good posters from the 2005-2010 period who left as a result of direct abuse, or the presence of abuse to others.

I personally left because the negative discussion outweighed the positive or constructive. (also we were s*** and I didn't feel like talking footy too much)

Some people just want to talk footy, some people just want to fight. That's OK.

However, it's clear that especially after a loss this place turns into a place for people to vent their emotions. Sure, it's better than kicking the dog but these are real people.

I thought the idea of moving threads/posts to the animal enclosure was a good one at the time, to separate the footy talk from the personal.

The thoughts of "listen to those who stuck around" is not right, as these people (yes, you) are the cause of the majority of posters leaving.

Of the other options, Bigfooty is where most people went, but even that is not a great place to be - a bit too toned down. Reddit is the ideal forum media with the voting setup but the number of people on /r/StKilda is not enough to sustain solid discussion.

The place I see the most footy discussions is on podcasts now, in comments and live engagement. It's possible that we're just the dinosaurs left behind.

[The Fireman]

can i be T-Rex ?

[n1ck]

I didn't insinuate anything - I have been quite open in the past and I thought I was being pretty straight-forward in saying in my opinion you most definitely have been a part of the problem.

Funny how you came straight at me within hours - are you THE problem? No. Part of it? Sure.

You asking anyone else to shoot straight in speech is a laugh, though. Have you read a single line of anything you've posted here?

En-joy.

are u saying

u did not insinuate that i was the problem around here

what about ... straight shooting in speech for starters

and thanx

i en-joy every day

[shanegrambeau]

For what it's worth

I think what we have is unique in this day and age

Social media has killed the OnLine forum and the decentralized internet and in some ways it's a shame.

But there is no point in moaning.

People prefer to have an identity rather than be anonymous, even if that identity is manufactured to be algorithm-friendly, and something that you don't mind your boss or worst enemy at work, from leering at.

But while we can be anonymous, there is still some tiny space to be had, where we can behave goodly or badly.

I honestly have no idea if you lot would chat on friendly terms, have lemonade at the footy together, or spit in each other's direction if it came to a real-life chance meeting.

I can't tell if the jabs are tongue-in-cheek or not.

But I still think that we can talk about the topic at hand more freely when not chained to a Facebook identity. It has good and bad consequences.

I have no social media at all.

I am sure some would prefer me to go get some FB action and bugger the hell off.

This is what most people seem to have done, albeit telling themselves they are sick of the trolling, bickering, and baiting.

And the general sillynessness.

But as a former ruckman at St Kilda, I am honour bound to continue.

[saynta]

Oh, my.

[Otiman]

For what it's worth, there's still plenty of good footy discussion being had here.

Some personal restraint on engaging when baited would go a long way.

[The Fireman]

this place is no different form any other SMP

As stated by Shane , if we were all to converse face to face most of the stuff on here wouldnt be said.

So take a chill pill ... we are here because we like the place.

[TimeToShineFellas]

Well, hasn't this just gone nicely.

I think it's fair to say this place went downhill after the following three words were uttered

RIX ROX RUX

People's decency and manners towards each other crumbled.

Even typing those words now will probably send me back to the shrink

[mr six o'clock]

can i be T-Rex ?

Well if you're dirty and sweet and can bang a gong then I reckon your a chance !

[The Fireman]

can i be T-Rex ?

Well if you're dirty and sweet and can bang a gong then I reckon your a chance !

ha was waiting for someone to pick up on that, nicely done

[skeptic]

I bumped into Banger9798 at the footy recently and he highlighted that I’ve been posting here for like 20 years. Doing the math, on the various earlier incarnations of the board… my journey started in late high school, around 2000.

The board has changed in a lot of ways. To some degree the many bigger characters are gone with Barks4Eva one of the most prolific (though I think he lurks around here from time to time still) . When Barks really got into his anti-GT thing… the intensity of it got a bit much for me but now that he’s gone, well boy is there ever a greater example of not appreciating what you had until it’s gone.

The stuff Barks pulled off - petitioning fans at games, delivering ruck stats to the coaches box at games etc. it was outrageous and so fun… the man was a unicorn.

The thing about this place though was that you had such a diverse group of forumites in terms of ideas/discussion. People might not remember but there was also quite a prominent contingent of opposition forumites that posted here… Freo Docker, Big Nick, Timberwolf and a few Hawk/Bomber/Tiger supporters - most would bob up around the week we played that club and for the most part… it was pretty respectful stuff with a bit of banter and some forum raiding.

We used to have the interforum matches… and pre opposition forum, general AFL talk populated the board too without overwhelming it.

The first and most enduring scourge of the forum, from around 2006 was the rise of the “good supporter”…
“Oh you’re criticising player x or the coach you’re not a real supporter”
“Only members should post here”
“Piss off opposition supporters, your insights aren’t welcome here”.

Post RL and as the Richo era turned sour… we lost a lot of good contributors who were frequently put down and attacked personally for expressing generally well thought out ideas that they believed. It was always tough to put a lot thought and work into starting a respectful discussion only to suddenly get “give it rest” or “FFS eye roll”. But there’s always been a group here that’s leaned into making things personal.

The broad range of ITKs we had over this era also left after frequently copping a bit of - “you’re not the ITK I respect”… you’re a liar” etc.

IMO that small but very vocal minority of forumites that frequently disrupt the conversation here have always been the biggest blights on SS.


The next big down era was the (shudder - he who shall not be named) - Axl era.
For those that came after… Axl was a forumite that lived on the site and replied to every comment with mundane platitudes within minutes… and I really mean within minutes.
Every topic, every forum… every day, hour after hour. I don’t remember if he posted here for a few weeks, few months or a year but it felt like forever. Every thread became about Axl and there was a mass exodus of this forum over this time.

Fortunately… the great AOK somehow managed to run him out.

Then came the forum spam era…
There was some soccer jerk that came on and would post oversized pic after pic of soccer action shops that basically made the threads unreadable. Whoever it was clearly wanted to break the website and shortly after that… this site started crashing.

Then, in between the crash and being back on line, the spam bots raided the boards with offers of illegally downloading movies.

IMO, most ppl that criticise the BFUSA moderation era… they either weren’t here or don’t remember that because it was horrible. This site wouldn’t have survived with that.

After that, came the plugger era… needling, needling needling. A lot of ppl jumped off there as thread after thread was derailed and whilst his tenure blew up spectacularly… his disappearance left a vacuum that was quickly filled by the next gen of spammers:
Ted, SCSA, Pelican… always the same thing. My post/opinion/insight is more valid then yours.

Now I feel like the forum has struck a great balance of moderation these days… not letting things go on or escalate but not overly domineering either. Posts are down a bit now to a degree but I think 10 years of mediocrity has interest down a bit with a bit of success required to stir up passion.
After that… it just needs to be a good degree of promoting good discussion and stopping the disrupters. Also… there’s been a bit of bleating about how this forum is dead as of late. It’s not but the constant reference to it IMO are made to will the perception into existence and it should stop.

Then the SS journey will continue

[Otiman]

Agree with all that skeptic, although the middle bit I wasn't here for (thankfully, by the sounds of it).

A completely tame SS is not a good thing, and neither is a wild west. The balance is important and I think it's been pretty good lately.

As long as the focus remains the footy.

[saynta]

Agree with all that skeptic, although the middle bit I wasn't here for (thankfully, by the sounds of it).

A completely tame SS is not a good thing, and neither is a wild west. The balance is important and I think it's been pretty good lately.

As long as the focus remains the footy.

I think it is pretty good these days. The secret is afaic to just ignore baiting and remain respectful to each other.

The real arseholes like plugger 66 are long gone. As are the real wild west days.

There is only one poster who continually tries to derail posts but even he /she has modified his/her posting style recently. thankfully.

[bobmurray]

Saintsational 1
BigFooty 0

Big Footy is full of SS rejects, that'll be why they don't rate a mention, Uncle Norman's mate is still a bell end.

[saynta]

Saintsational 1
BigFooty 0

Big Footy is full of SS rejects, that'll be why they don't rate a mention, Uncle Norman's mate is still a bell end.

[Teflon]

Agree with all that skeptic, although the middle bit I wasn't here for (thankfully, by the sounds of it).

A completely tame SS is not a good thing, and neither is a wild west. The balance is important and I think it's been pretty good lately.

As long as the focus remains the footy.

I think it is pretty good these days. The secret is afaic to just ignore baiting and remain respectful to each other.

The real arseholes like plugger 66 are long gone. As are the real wild west days.

There is only one poster who continually tries to derail posts but even he /she has modified his/her posting style recently. thankfully.

You should take a leaf out of he/she’s boots instead of pretending you’ve been the balanced, wise contributor you ain’t.
Sigh…roll roll

[The Fireman]

Lol still having a go at each to the bitter end