Our midfield

[older saint]

Most good sides bat 8 or more deep in the midfield
We just played GWS which is one of the better mid-fields in the comp - but don't bat as deep

Our issue is I think our best mids are similar, hard, endurance athletes .RL has clearly been trying to address this by introducing players through there,which takes time as the running is different and you ng players need to build up tanks.

Clark, Gresham. Sinclair, Owens. Phillipou all are different to Steele, crouch, Ross, Bytel, Windy

It is a WIP and takes time.

[bigcarl]

Most good sides bat 8 or more deep in the midfield
We just played GWS which is one of the better mid-fields in the comp - but don't bat as deep

Our issue is I think our best mids are similar, hard, endurance athletes .RL has clearly been trying to address this by introducing players through there,which takes time as the running is different and you ng players need to build up tanks.

Clark, Gresham. Sinclair, Owens. Phillipou all are different to Steele, crouch, Ross, Bytel, Windy

It is a WIP and takes time.

Agree about our best midfielders being somewhat similar. Clark has a point of difference though.

Owens, Philippou, Windy/Bytel give me hope for the future.

[The G Train Legacy]

Said it before
You get your best players around the footy
That’s Sinclair
37 disposals 2 goals 6 inside 50
Star
Get him in the midfield permanently
Get another HBF
Ross on way out
I’d prime Windhager and Bytel now

DMac 2 weeks away, will do the job nicely at half back, hopefully releasing Sinclair to the middle. With King back, Owens can also spend more time there. Suddenly our midfield could get quite formidable.

[older saint]

Said it before
You get your best players around the footy
That’s Sinclair
37 disposals 2 goals 6 inside 50
Star
Get him in the midfield permanently
Get another HBF
Ross on way out
I’d prime Windhager and Bytel now

DMac 2 weeks away, will do the job nicely at half back, hopefully releasing Sinclair to the middle. With King back, Owens can also spend more time there. Suddenly our midfield could get quite formidable.

No footy for nearly 12 months i would say 6 weeks from ready for senior selection. Do have options though

[Scollop]

There's a thread on how good Crouch is as a mid

The stats presented by the op about Crouch are all about raw numbers, but when you get down to the nitty gritty there are other Saints mids who are more effective at clearances

Marshall is elite around the ground at stoppage clearances per game. Jack Steele is the only other St Kilda mid in the top 50 midfielders in the league for his number of stoppage clearances per game (therefore it's a better representation than raw number totals).

Without looking at how effective each player's disposals are or who has the highest number of inside 50's or score involvements, I thought I'd check on how many times Crouch gets opportunities to get an actual centre clearance

Crouch isn't as effective as Steele and ...3 other Saints have way better percentage ratios for clearances per centre bounce attendance - CC/CBA.

Isn't that one of his key roles?

Two of the guys who are better at centre clearance than Crouch are Sinclair and Hunter Clark. They need to be in the middle more often than Seb and Brad.... that is not the case right now. Crouch only beats Seb for this key ratio ( Centre Clearances per Centre Bounce Attendance)

There is one Saints player who is off the charts in this metric and that's Michito Owens. Owens is number 2 in the league

Brad Crouch and Seb Ross attend far too many centre bounces. Also: St Kilda as a team rates 17th in the league for total clearances per game (stoppage and centre clearance combined)

...but that is also a reflection of our game plan and our excellent defence which equates to our opponents kicking less goals. Therefore less centre bounces

www.wheeloratings.com

[Saintmike65]

Our issues are two fold..firstly our midfield is pedestrian, which lacks class and/ or zip.
Secondly, we don’t have a clearance beast that can burst out of traffic!

[saynta]

Our issues are two fold..firstly our midfield is pedestrian, which lacks class and/ or zip.
Secondly, we don’t have a clearance beast that can burst out of traffic!

Yeah we do, but he's playing in the VFL.

[bigcarl]

Our issues are two fold..firstly our midfield is pedestrian, which lacks class and/ or zip.
Secondly, we don’t have a clearance beast that can burst out of traffic!

Owens

[samuraisaint]

Windhager and Bytel really should come in. Bytel needs to continue to kick goals which he started doing in a game at the end of 2021, and looked like he was going to do this season until he got injured.
He needs to get into the habit.

[Jacks Back]

As we are playing Hawthorn this week I thing Crouch and Ross should be managed and Windy and Bytel come in. Plus Membrey for Owens

[B.M]

Why wouldn’t we just pick our best 23

[Teflon]

We don't set up well and we often have three in-and-under players (Steele, Ross, Crouch) at the bounce, giving us no run and no spread. Our opposition seem to always have an outlier and quickly create space.

In my opinion, Sinclair needs to play as a full time mid. We can't continue with both Ross and Crouch in there.

Just watched press conference. Ross virtually confirmed that Sinclair's role would not be changing.

I heard that but let’s be on honest….he ends up in there when beat comes on….a lot lately
I’ve watched Sinclair (even last year) turn ganes from midfield
Our mids are all 1 paced
I want Sinclair with ball in hand forward of centre more…he make’s awesome decisions that usually we score from
Blind Freddy stuff

[shanegrambeau]

As we are playing Hawthorn this week I thing Crouch and Ross should be managed and Windy and Bytel come in. Plus Membrey for Owens

Why is Bytel better than Ross?

The only salient things i hear about Bytel is, he is a goer in traffic but slow on the outside.

[Brunswicksainter]

As we are playing Hawthorn this week I thing Crouch and Ross should be managed and Windy and Bytel come in. Plus Membrey for Owens

Why is Bytel better than Ross?

The only salient things i hear about Bytel is, he is a goer in traffic but slow on the outside.

Yeah not sold on Bytel he’s had 2 coaches now and ample chances, surely if he was as good as some think on this forum he would have broken out by now. Windhager is a different story he should be playing ahead of Ross.

[skeptic]

As we are playing Hawthorn this week I thing Crouch and Ross should be managed and Windy and Bytel come in. Plus Membrey for Owens

Why is Bytel better than Ross?

The only salient things i hear about Bytel is, he is a goer in traffic but slow on the outside.

Yeah not sold on Bytel he’s had 2 coaches now and ample chances, surely if he was as good as some think on this forum he would have broken out by now. Windhager is a different story he should be playing ahead of Ross.

Ample chances? 21 games, a bunch of them as sub.

[takeaway]

We don't set up well and we often have three in-and-under players (Steele, Ross, Crouch) at the bounce, giving us no run and no spread. Our opposition seem to always have an outlier and quickly create space.

In my opinion, Sinclair needs to play as a full time mid. We can't continue with both Ross and Crouch in there.

Just watched press conference. Ross virtually confirmed that Sinclair's role would not be changing.

I heard that but let’s be on honest….he ends up in there when beat comes on….a lot lately
I’ve watched Sinclair (even last year) turn ganes from midfield
Our mids are all 1 paced
I want Sinclair with ball in hand forward of centre more…he make’s awesome decisions that usually we score from
Blind Freddy stuff

Disagree. Leave him be. Licence to roam from half back, reading the play, intercepting and launching attacks, very hard to tag. Sort of playing as a mid from half back, still gets forward, first goal was when he was HB. Mids (Ross & Clark) or wings (Byrnes) zone back when he wanders. Has mainly gone into the centre later in games, not necessarily when the heat is on, because of his run, still fairly fresh, hasn't been hassled all day in the coalface.
Blind Freddy has seen it and decided he is more effective in the current role, with the option of putting him in the centre to change things.

[Otiman]

Here's a question for you all. Have we turned Hunter Clark from a potential gun into a GOP this year?

[CQ SAINT]

Here's a question for you all. Have we turned Hunter Clark from a potential gun into a GOP this year?

Sinclair, NVM and Stocker have played a hand in Clark's role. Putting him in the midfield puts the ball in his hands. Its up to him how that works?

What would you suggest?

[nostalgicsaint]

Clark is still a potential gun. Has great impact in limited game time and is playing a much more important role.

[Ghost Like]

Here's a question for you all. Have we turned Hunter Clark from a potential gun into a GOP this year?

Prefer Clark in the midfield to the half back line, an area he pushes back to help out in.

Interesting statement though, it seems you've nailed Clark as a GOP, a player without potential. I would suggest this is the year where Clark can see his true potential as a genuine midfielder who reads the game very well.

[Otiman]

Clark's current output is in the lower level of our mid rotations. 1-2 years ago he had the potential to be an absolute gun.

Everything I seen in him before this year seems missing. That composure with the ball, ability to evade and make time slow down when he's got the ball.

He has gone 'back to basics' and hopefully doesn't stay there.

[Brunswicksainter]

As we are playing Hawthorn this week I thing Crouch and Ross should be managed and Windy and Bytel come in. Plus Membrey for Owens

Why is Bytel better than Ross?

The only salient things i hear about Bytel is, he is a goer in traffic but slow on the outside.

Yeah not sold on Bytel he’s had 2 coaches now and ample chances, surely if he was as good as some think on this forum he would have broken out by now. Windhager is a different story he should be playing ahead of Ross.

Ample chances? 21 games, a bunch of them as sub.

I would consider 21 games as sub as more than an ample chance. He hasn’t shown anything at AFL level to date. Nothing against him I hope he turns out good.

[Scollop]

As we are playing Hawthorn this week I thing Crouch and Ross should be managed and Windy and Bytel come in. Plus Membrey for Owens

Why is Bytel better than Ross?

The only salient things i hear about Bytel is, he is a goer in traffic but slow on the outside.

Yeah not sold on Bytel he’s had 2 coaches now and ample chances, surely if he was as good as some think on this forum he would have broken out by now. Windhager is a different story he should be playing ahead of Ross.

Ample chances? 21 games, a bunch of them as sub.

I would consider 21 games as sub as more than an ample chance. He hasn’t shown anything at AFL level to date. Nothing against him I hope he turns out good.

Ample opportunity at AFL level with half your games as sub?? Yeah sure….

You left out 20+ games that he was named as an emergency as well….so I guess you’re right

[older saint]

Here's a question for you all. Have we turned Hunter Clark from a potential gun into a GOP this year?

Went to a function last night with Hayes, Harvey and Steele.

Asked about under rated players this season and Lenny mentioned Clark and the year he was having and how he had been given different roles multiple times this season to fill gaps and been great for the team but perhaps hasn't allowed him to be as noticed from the outside.

Interesting to hear this as some games been very good while other has seemed quiet, but clearly playing a roll.

Think long term he will be better for this.

[Otiman]

I am not suggesting he will be a GOP forever, just that this year he has been pulled back from doing anything 'fancy' and focusing on the basics.

Reading everyones comments it sounds plausible, and that at some point he will be unleashed again. At least I hope so.