Alistair walks out on North

[Otiman]

My take on it is this. It's probably not a fair take for Clarko and no doubt he is struggling personally, but it follows reasonable logic.

- The 'investigation' is a sham and has gone nowhere
- Mediation is not happening for whatever reason
- Clarko feels powerless (and rightly so)
- Clarko writes a pointed statement
- Small media reaction, No action in the case
- Clarko knows it needs to be 'blown up' to go anywhere
- Announce indefinite leave from the game
- Situation is blown up
- Public/media demand a resolution
- What's next?

[cwrcyn]

None of us know the full details. Yes, the process may be flawed, but just because it's flawed doesn't mean the allegations are untrue.

Cyril Rioli retired from the game early. One can assume that his reasons were tied in with all this mess.

A. Could it be that these players and their partners were treated in a patronising fashion that was merely construed as racist? Possibly

B. Were they treated in a patronising fashion because they were Aboriginal? Maybe

C. Was Clarkson treating a lot of players in a disrespectful
and patronising fashion and this was just an extension of that? Fair chance

D. Did Clarkson and co make some assumptions about some players abilities to manage their personal lives based on their cultural background? Conceivable


These are the questions that need to be answered.

For 20 years, Clarkson has been unchallenged in relation to his dealings with players, partially due to team success and partially because people were scared of him because of his particular personality type. People have been blowing smoke up his arse for a long time.

[cwrcyn]

It's hard for a man who's had his own way for so long to suddenly not have total control over a situation.

[Yorkeys]

Equally plausible: there is no substance to the allegations. Is that why its dragging on.
Has it become a proxy for all Aboriginal &TSI grievances over racism in football. Lynch someone for crimes we know others committed? Might be the wrong vehicle for that but AFL doesn't know how to get off it. Not a good model for truth telling? Hawthorn have provided a valuable template in how not to go about a healing process.

[Scollop]

Equally plausible: there is no substance to the allegations. Is that why its dragging on.
Has it become a proxy for all Aboriginal &TSI grievances over racism in football.

Stick to the funny stuff Yorkeys ...and try not to show your true feelings

I'm not even going to ask you to elaborate on what you mean by the sentence highlighted

It's better that people don't comment when it's blatantly obvious that they have nfi what they're talking about. Notice I didn't directly accuse you of anything there?!

I know it's awkward and uncomfortable for some people to understand 'grievances over racism' but let me ask you this:

Did you grow up in a country where people were racist towards you Yorkeys... or were you denied the right to go to school or walk into a shop or a pub?

[asiu]

wow

lots going on here

ummmmmm

i run ...
No tell-a-vision/s in my life
No mainstream media/s (besides the ABC)
only footy talk is via here (basically)

so my understanding of the 'time line' in this scenario
is limited

the Hawkers instigate an info seeking exercise
(in house)
the Participants ... contribute
(in house)

the Hawkers ...(self) report to the AFL
... that seems to says a bit !!

the AFL leaks

the Participants are now THE accusers

hello


have i got that wrong ?

[cwrcyn]

Yes, the fact that the Hawks self reported to the AFL does say a bit

[Otiman]

The ABC article is removed from the investigation entirely, and is the reason it got out into the public eye. It is one side of the story and Clarkson/Fagan/Burt are not speaking to any accusations directly.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-21/ ... /101452320

What i've heard is that it's AFL directive to not discuss it, but I am not sure how accurate that is of where that is reported.

[saynta]

I would take anything that the ABC said with a degree of suspicion.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-n ... 5d9iw.html


"If North Melbourne officials had not seen the depths of Alastair Clarkson’s vulnerability, the club’s two most senior figures – president Sonja Hood and chief executive Jennifer Watt – saw a raw Clarkson without his mask of stoicism on Wednesday afternoon.

“I need to get help,” Clarkson told Hood and Watt, having arrived at Arden Street with his wife Caryn and manager James Henderson, to tell the Kangaroos why he needed to take a time out from his coaching position to deal with his mental and physical wellbeing in the wake an AFL investigation and estrangement from his former club, Hawthorn.

Alastair Clarkson stands down 'indefinitely' as North Melbourne coach

Kangaroos coach Alastair Clarkson has stood down from his role and the AFL for an indefinite period.
UFC 293 set for Sydney in September

“I just can’t do it,” Clarkson told the club leaders of his coaching position.

This admission came at a time when multiple sources familiar with the AFL investigation told this masthead that the case against Clarkson – and Brisbane Lions coach Chris Fagan and ex-welfare manager Jason Burt, who have all denied any wrongdoing – has reached the point of collapse, sources saying there is zero chance Clarkson or the other duo will face sanctions for the allegations against them. Clarkson and Fagan have expressed frustration at the process of the investigation.

The emotional meeting at Arden Street, which lasted about an hour, involved tears from Clarkson. North Melbourne people believe Caryn Clarkson was influential in the often domineering coach’s decision to step away and seek help – in the form of counselling – to deal with the different layers of trauma that had left him struggling to sleep recently, as Todd Viney, his close friend and main football lieutenant, told the media on Thursday.

Clarkson had found he was “second-guessing” himself as a consequence of dealing with his overlapping issues. He told the meeting he found it difficult to take anyone at face value, and felt that no one was taking him at face value.

Clarkson had been angered and frustrated by the impasse – and his inability to tell his story and counter damaging allegations – in the AFL’s investigation into alleged mistreatment of First Nations players and their partners, which prompted Gillon McLachlan to announce the investigation back in grand final week last year.

He was also dealing with his estrangement from Hawthorn, and what looked like a widening rift between Clarkson and his replacement as senior coach Sam Mitchell and anger at how the Hawks had dealt with the allegations, which they had passed on to the AFL, rather than speak to the coaches.

AFL chief Gillon McLachlan says he will remain in charge until after the Hawthorn racism case has “settled down”.

And he was dealing with the not inconsiderable daily challenges that every AFL senior coach faces. North are confident he will return to coaching this year, without a timeline, as the experienced and well-liked Brett Ratten takes over as interim coach.

The pressure on Clarkson had built and built. North Melbourne insiders who had seen the alpha coach only with the mask – he had not wished to allow his emotions to overflow before the players – recognised that the emotions were bubbling up, like lava, after his outspoken media conference a week ago, last Thursday, when he condemned Hawthorn’s conduct as “shameful” and questioned why the Hawks had not been investigated themselves.

Clarkson had been incensed, too, by the release of information by the AFL panel, chaired by Bernard Quinn KC, that explained why the investigation had reached this impasse – largely because Clarkson and his former colleagues from Hawthorn, Lions coach Fagan and welfare manager Burt, had been unable to get access to Hawthorn documents that were said to be relevant to their case, on privacy grounds.

While the club leadership knew what Clarkson was dealing with and these multiple fronts, they still did not expect his decision on Wednesday.
Related Article
Alastair Clarkson has stepped away from football to focus on his physical and emotional health.
AFL 2023
Clarkson and co unlikely to face sanctions as pressure rises on investigators

Yet, they were also not shocked by this turn of events – the most dramatic moment since the ABC first published the allegations against Clarkson, Fagan and Burt, based on a cultural safety review by Phil Egan that had created an emotional wave of its own, as the players’ troubling allegations were aired.

Whatever one’s position on the Hawthorn allegations and investigation, there is a near-consensus that the process has been, in McLachlan’s words to club CEOs, “a mess” and that it has dragged on for far too long without resolution; it might well not end to the satisfaction of any party, either. Hawthorn signalled long ago that they were willing to settle with the players and partners.

Clarkson’s decision was about his state, rather than the state of the investigation, which is more favourable to him than when the allegations detonated, prompting him to delay starting his job at North. AFL officials wondered why he was taking time out, given the finish line of the investigation seemed in sight.

But the coach who was renowned for never letting up, for relentless pursuits of players that saw him fly acoss the United States and for never backing down, finally gave himself and his family a break'

[shanegrambeau]

I defend Clarkson - based on what I know which is ziltch
I defend the victims - it doesn't take a genius to know that Indigenous people have a set of problems far deeper and more complex than any of us - perhaps even they can grasp in simple terms (that doesn't stop the politicalization of these issues, which along with white guilt is quite a tasty treat..not)
I defend the AFL, and there isn't much to like about them most of the time

What I hate is the opportunists here among us, looking for a target to help them identify a 'witch', a 'curse'...well, I've got news. You are not different, We are complicit.

And I defend those people who point out how sad and ridiculous it is...

For those people who want to point the stick at the 'Wrong Party' pretending that there is some polarity and symmetry here, and some benign, and true heaven here on earth..I point my wrath.

Look at you!

Pat yourself on the back, clean one.

[markp]

"Lynched."

Yep, he was lynched.

#PutYourNoosesOut

All because a leaked internal report says some people feel he treated them badly.

Age article says that it's believed he will almost certainly face zero sanctions and that there are different layered and overlapping traumas involved... you hardly have to read between the lines to see that indicates he's got other sh!t going on.

Genuinely hope he's feeling tickety-boo soon, but "lynched" he was not.

[Moods]

None of us know the full details. Yes, the process may be flawed, but just because it's flawed doesn't mean the allegations are untrue.

Cyril Rioli retired from the game early. One can assume that his reasons were tied in with all this mess.

A. Could it be that these players and their partners were treated in a patronising fashion that was merely construed as racist? Possibly

B. Were they treated in a patronising fashion because they were Aboriginal? Maybe

C. Was Clarkson treating a lot of players in a disrespectful
and patronising fashion and this was just an extension of that? Fair chance

D. Did Clarkson and co make some assumptions about some players abilities to manage their personal lives based on their cultural background? Conceivable


These are the questions that need to be answered.

For 20 years, Clarkson has been unchallenged in relation to his dealings with players, partially due to team success and partially because people were scared of him because of his particular personality type. People have been blowing smoke up his arse for a long time.

Spot on

[asiu]

For 80 years, the old man has been unchallenged in relation to his dealings with people
because people were scared of him
because of his particular personality type.
(control , domination , manipulation , traducement)
People have been blowing smoke up his arse for a long time.


mmmm

(had to do that ... for obvious reasons + accuracy)

it's a weakness of character
not a strength

power is not ... of self but through Self

[Saintmatt]

Yes, the fact that the Hawks self reported to the AFL does say a bit

Point of order as that is 100% incorrect - as confirmed by Jeff Kennett this morning. The Hawks commissioned a report as a result of some allegations (stupidly so by not putting in place a framework for the investigation, any guardrails nor, how all complaints would be handled etc) however, that report was leaked to Russell Jackson of the ABC who then published his piece.

Once the report was in the public domain ... only then did Hawthorn go to the AFL.

[Scollop]

So Hawthorn wanted to sweep the matter under the carpet, but because it's in the public domain, they've handballed it to the AFL who are more experienced at sweeping matters under the carpet

[Moods]

I’m hearing a lot of motherhood statements from a lot of media idiots, talking about how the Hawks have blood on their hands, they’re disgrace, and they’ve botched this entire investigation . Not one person has come out and said how it should’ve happened. All they’ve done is attack Hawthorn and the AFL. No one knows what hurdles The AFL is confronting trying to get this investigation completed. Most of the hand wringing is because of sympathy for Clarkson, Fagen and Birt. Everyone seems to have forgotten very quickly what they were said to have done in the report. Because they say they’re completely innocent, we’re straightaway happy to believe them. It’s little wonder the accusers don’t want their names mentioned. Now then they would be under attack miles more than anything Clarkson has gone through

[asiu]

So Hawthorn wanted to sweep the matter under the carpet, but because it's in the public domain, they've handballed it to the AFL who are more experienced at sweeping matters under the carpet

the leak sourced from there
coz
they wanted to sweep it under the table ?

[happy feet]

I was subjected to a false accusation at work and it took the organisation 6 months to investigate. Even when you have done nothing wrong, it eats at you like a cancer. I guess the saying Justice delayed is justice denied covers this type of situation. I’m no Clarke fan but this should have been wrapped up months ago.

[saynta]

I was subjected to a false accusation at work and it took the organisation 6 months to investigate. Even when you have done nothing wrong, it eats at you like a cancer. I guess the saying Justice delayed is justice denied covers this type of situation. I’m no Clarke fan but this should have been wrapped up months ago.

Yep.

There is a good article setting out the whole sorry saga in today's Age but I won't post the link . Don't want to upset the ABC fans amongst us.

[asiu]

what

this one ?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-n ... 5d9iw.html


"If North Melbourne officials had not seen the depths of Alastair Clarkson’s vulnerability, the club’s two most senior figures – president Sonja Hood and chief executive Jennifer Watt – saw a raw Clarkson without his mask of stoicism on Wednesday afternoon.

“I need to get help,” Clarkson told Hood and Watt, having arrived at Arden Street with his wife Caryn and manager James Henderson, to tell the Kangaroos why he needed to take a time out from his coaching position to deal with his mental and physical wellbeing in the wake an AFL investigation and estrangement from his former club, Hawthorn.

Alastair Clarkson stands down 'indefinitely' as North Melbourne coach

Kangaroos coach Alastair Clarkson has stood down from his role and the AFL for an indefinite period.
UFC 293 set for Sydney in September

“I just can’t do it,” Clarkson told the club leaders of his coaching position.

This admission came at a time when multiple sources familiar with the AFL investigation told this masthead that the case against Clarkson – and Brisbane Lions coach Chris Fagan and ex-welfare manager Jason Burt, who have all denied any wrongdoing – has reached the point of collapse, sources saying there is zero chance Clarkson or the other duo will face sanctions for the allegations against them. Clarkson and Fagan have expressed frustration at the process of the investigation.

The emotional meeting at Arden Street, which lasted about an hour, involved tears from Clarkson. North Melbourne people believe Caryn Clarkson was influential in the often domineering coach’s decision to step away and seek help – in the form of counselling – to deal with the different layers of trauma that had left him struggling to sleep recently, as Todd Viney, his close friend and main football lieutenant, told the media on Thursday.

Clarkson had found he was “second-guessing” himself as a consequence of dealing with his overlapping issues. He told the meeting he found it difficult to take anyone at face value, and felt that no one was taking him at face value.

Clarkson had been angered and frustrated by the impasse – and his inability to tell his story and counter damaging allegations – in the AFL’s investigation into alleged mistreatment of First Nations players and their partners, which prompted Gillon McLachlan to announce the investigation back in grand final week last year.

He was also dealing with his estrangement from Hawthorn, and what looked like a widening rift between Clarkson and his replacement as senior coach Sam Mitchell and anger at how the Hawks had dealt with the allegations, which they had passed on to the AFL, rather than speak to the coaches.

AFL chief Gillon McLachlan says he will remain in charge until after the Hawthorn racism case has “settled down”.

And he was dealing with the not inconsiderable daily challenges that every AFL senior coach faces. North are confident he will return to coaching this year, without a timeline, as the experienced and well-liked Brett Ratten takes over as interim coach.

The pressure on Clarkson had built and built. North Melbourne insiders who had seen the alpha coach only with the mask – he had not wished to allow his emotions to overflow before the players – recognised that the emotions were bubbling up, like lava, after his outspoken media conference a week ago, last Thursday, when he condemned Hawthorn’s conduct as “shameful” and questioned why the Hawks had not been investigated themselves.

Clarkson had been incensed, too, by the release of information by the AFL panel, chaired by Bernard Quinn KC, that explained why the investigation had reached this impasse – largely because Clarkson and his former colleagues from Hawthorn, Lions coach Fagan and welfare manager Burt, had been unable to get access to Hawthorn documents that were said to be relevant to their case, on privacy grounds.

While the club leadership knew what Clarkson was dealing with and these multiple fronts, they still did not expect his decision on Wednesday.
Related Article
Alastair Clarkson has stepped away from football to focus on his physical and emotional health.
AFL 2023
Clarkson and co unlikely to face sanctions as pressure rises on investigators

Yet, they were also not shocked by this turn of events – the most dramatic moment since the ABC first published the allegations against Clarkson, Fagan and Burt, based on a cultural safety review by Phil Egan that had created an emotional wave of its own, as the players’ troubling allegations were aired.

Whatever one’s position on the Hawthorn allegations and investigation, there is a near-consensus that the process has been, in McLachlan’s words to club CEOs, “a mess” and that it has dragged on for far too long without resolution; it might well not end to the satisfaction of any party, either. Hawthorn signalled long ago that they were willing to settle with the players and partners.

Clarkson’s decision was about his state, rather than the state of the investigation, which is more favourable to him than when the allegations detonated, prompting him to delay starting his job at North. AFL officials wondered why he was taking time out, given the finish line of the investigation seemed in sight.

But the coach who was renowned for never letting up, for relentless pursuits of players that saw him fly acoss the United States and for never backing down, finally gave himself and his family a break'

fair faux elder abuse


you lot can do wtf ya want
say wtf u want
afaic

except mob up on another poster

[Otiman]

Who has gagged Clarkson, Fagan and Burt?

Nobody is mentioning that point and I geniunely don't know.

[saynta]

Who has gagged Clarkson, Fagan and Burt?

Nobody is mentioning that point and I geniunely don't know.

The AFL I presume, or the panel appointed by them.

No one other than the AFL has any power over Clarko or Fagen.

[ace]

Equally plausible: there is no substance to the allegations. Is that why its dragging on.
Has it become a proxy for all Aboriginal &TSI grievances over racism in football.

A bit like the Pell case.
Pell became a proxy for all the evil that other priests in the catholic church committed.
Only when 7 out 7 high court judges said bull sh!t was he released but name and reputation never cleared.

[B.M]

I reckon he wants out

And this is just a good reason

Fagan is still coaching

[Otiman]

I reckon he wants out

Could be, Ross Lyon said when he came back that you need to be invested and take the emotional risk.

This is a good insight into the mind of a coach who has been in and out of the game.