Sandy v Port.

[saynta]

21 point win to Sandy.

Best; Windy, Campbell, Webster, Billings and Highmore.

Windy, 35 possessions and 3 goals.

Billings, 22 possessions,

Webster 20 odd possessions. Missed exact no.

Special mention Keeler. kicked 1. 3.

[Teflon]

Timely results…. changes on way

[Rubyjo]

Nice

[Rubyjo]

Nice

[Toy Saint]

If Campbell did well, perhaps a senior game?

I'm beginning to worry about Rowan Marshall's work load as well as his effectiveness.

[bigcarl]

Timely results…. changes on way

Yes, Owens and Windhager into midfield. It’s an exploratory year, so let’s explore.

[Teflon]

Timely results…. changes on way

Yes, Owens and Windhager into midfield. It’s an exploratory year, so let’s explore.

100%
Got to also find out if Bytel can play
I’m also constantly hearing Highmore in best in twos …is there room anywhere??
If it means a Ross goes out/sub or a Criuch gets a spell so be it
Short term pain long term gain
You know already what this current mid crop give u

[magnifisaint]

Timely results…. changes on way

Yes, Owens and Windhager into midfield. It’s an exploratory year, so let’s explore.

100%
Got to also find out if Bytel can play
I’m also constantly hearing Highmore in best in twos …is there room anywhere??
If it means a Ross goes out/sub or a Criuch gets a spell so be it
Short term pain long term gain
You know already what this current mid crop give u

I think Highmore should come in for Howard. At least he can mark the ball.

[Scollop]

If Campbell did well, perhaps a senior game?

I'm beginning to worry about Rowan Marshall's work load as well as his effectiveness.

A lot of responsibility on too few. Marshall as you said could have rested against the wooden spooners last week (play him 30% as ruck and lots of bench time) and Campbell could have shouldered the bulk of ruck duties

Guys like Seb Ross and Brad Crouch also expected to shoulder too much each week. Especially with Sincs used 50/50 off half back and Gresh used forward at times

Crouch had a significant drop off in form for a few weeks. Unless you are a Seb Ross devotee (or apologist) it was odds on that Seb would also follow Crouch and have a similar form slump

Why not make Seb Ross or Brad Crouch the sub for a few games. They get their match payment and they get a rest from having to be the main ball winners

Bytel and Windy being used as sub for 5-6 weeks is rubbish development

...speaking of shoulders...Jack Steele came in for the Carlton game. It was 3 weeks ago and Bytel was dropped. He got 39 touches in the VFL

The coaches have been reactionary and have cost the team and the club. It's embarrassing what we've served up the last few weeks. Mental as well as physical stress equals less efficiency and increased errors imo.

If players are fit and can perform at 70-80% of the so called regulars, then utilise them. Don't wait for losses before making changes. It's going to keep the players on their toes

[meher baba]

Sadly, I suspect that playing Bytel more regularly in seniors will represent a backwards step in his development in that fans will be forced to see see that he is truly a GOP rather than the potential superstar many seem to believe him to be. Something like that happened with Sharman yesterday.

Lyon ia doing a good job at developing the players who look most likely to take the club somewhere in future years: NWM, Owens, Philippou, Caminiti, arguably Byrnes. And Windhager has responded admirably to being dropped.

I don’t really buy the argument “player x should be given a run of games to show if they can make it.” And, while some fans constantly ask for this, they don’t truly want it either. For instance, would any of you really be happy to watch Sharman play another half dozen games of AFL like yesterday’s without being dropped? (“He just needs to be given a couple more games to prove he’s not up to it. Only fair.”)

[CQ SAINT]

Sadly, I suspect that playing Bytel more regularly in seniors will represent a backwards step in his development in that fans will be forced to see see that he is truly a GOP rather than the potential superstar many seem to believe him to be. Something like that happened with Sharman yesterday.

Lyon ia doing a good job at developing the players who look most likely to take the club somewhere in future years: NWM, Owens, Philippou, Caminiti, arguably Byrnes. And Windhager has responded admirably to being dropped.

I don’t really buy the argument “player x should be given a run of games to show if they can make it.” And, while some fans constantly ask for this, they don’t truly want it either. For instance, would any of you really be happy to watch Sharman play another half dozen games of AFL like yesterday’s without being dropped? (“He just needs to be given a couple more games to prove he’s not up to it. Only fair.”)

Cheap shot really. Apply your argument to Ross, Crouch and Greshham, I believe these guys are taking up first choice senior positions? How many games do they get to show they are more than making up numbers.

[meher baba]

Sadly, I suspect that playing Bytel more regularly in seniors will represent a backwards step in his development in that fans will be forced to see see that he is truly a GOP rather than the potential superstar many seem to believe him to be. Something like that happened with Sharman yesterday.

Lyon ia doing a good job at developing the players who look most likely to take the club somewhere in future years: NWM, Owens, Philippou, Caminiti, arguably Byrnes. And Windhager has responded admirably to being dropped.

I don’t really buy the argument “player x should be given a run of games to show if they can make it.” And, while some fans constantly ask for this, they don’t truly want it either. For instance, would any of you really be happy to watch Sharman play another half dozen games of AFL like yesterday’s without being dropped? (“He just needs to be given a couple more games to prove he’s not up to it. Only fair.”)

Cheap shot really. Apply your argument to Ross, Crouch and Greshham, I believe these guys are taking up first choice senior positions? How many games do they get to show they are more than making up numbers.

Crouch was one of our better players yesterday IMO. Ross has been putting runs on the board for years and has had a pretty good season up to yesterday. Gresham provides an unpredictable elemenet around clearances that we sorely missed yesterday. The midfielder who has been struggling the most this year is Steele: do you propose that he get dropped for Bytel?

If the senior players at a club are playing poorly, the solution is not to replace them with GOPs from the VFL: it's to find a way to get them to play better. It's your classiest players that are going to win you premierships, not the hard-working GOPs. One criticism of Lyon is that he is overly fond of hard-working GOPs, so if he doesn't consider Bytel to be an automatic first selection, we should take note of that.

Having said all that, I'm fully expecting Bytel to get a full game next week. Lyon has clearly worked out an order of precedence, and Bytel looks to be next cab off the rank: way ahead of Billings and also slightly ahead of Windhager.

[nostalgicsaint]

Don't think it is a cheap shot.

Probably right but also the players might surprise.

I'd give Windy a starting 22 position off the back of his form and have bytel go back and do what Windy has.

[CQ SAINT]

Sadly, I suspect that playing Bytel more regularly in seniors will represent a backwards step in his development in that fans will be forced to see see that he is truly a GOP rather than the potential superstar many seem to believe him to be. Something like that happened with Sharman yesterday.

Lyon ia doing a good job at developing the players who look most likely to take the club somewhere in future years: NWM, Owens, Philippou, Caminiti, arguably Byrnes. And Windhager has responded admirably to being dropped.

I don’t really buy the argument “player x should be given a run of games to show if they can make it.” And, while some fans constantly ask for this, they don’t truly want it either. For instance, would any of you really be happy to watch Sharman play another half dozen games of AFL like yesterday’s without being dropped? (“He just needs to be given a couple more games to prove he’s not up to it. Only fair.”)

Cheap shot really. Apply your argument to Ross, Crouch and Greshham, I believe these guys are taking up first choice senior positions? How many games do they get to show they are more than making up numbers.

Crouch was one of our better players yesterday IMO. Ross has been putting runs on the board for years and has had a pretty good season up to yesterday. Gresham provides an unpredictable elemenet around clearances that we sorely missed yesterday. The midfielder who has been struggling the most this year is Steele: do you propose that he get dropped for Bytel?

If the senior players at a club are playing poorly, the solution is not to replace them with GOPs from the VFL: it's to find a way to get them to play better. It's your classiest players that are going to win you premierships, not the hard-working GOPs. One criticism of Lyon is that he is overly fond of hard-working GOPs, so if he doesn't consider Bytel to be an automatic first selection, we should take note of that.

Having said all that, I'm fully expecting Bytel to get a full game next week. Lyon has clearly worked out an order of precedence, and Bytel looks to be next cab off the rank: way ahead of Billings and also slightly ahead of Windhager.

Gresham ain't a midfielder, Ross is just solid and Crouch is ok. Better opposition midfielders, make them look like try hards.
If we recruit better mids, none of them will survive.

[meher baba]

Gresham ain't a midfielder

I never said he was. But he does winsa bit of ball at clearances, which quite often sparks a successful attack.

Ross is just solid and Crouch is ok. Better opposition midfielders, make them look like try hards.
If we recruit better mids, none of them will survive.

We'd do well to replace both of them. I actually think our midfield is potentially ok. It's probably one player light at the moment, but if we had Steele, Ross, Crouch, Windhager and Clark all playing well and Sinclair and Gresham making cameo appearances, we'd be pretty dangerous. Unforutnately, Steele has been down on form since his injury and Windhager has also struggled but has perhaps now turned it around.

I would suggest bringing in Bytel to bolster our midfield for a game or two, but the long-term answer is further development of the list of midfielders I have given. And, yes, if we can get someone better through a trade, then go for it. I have said over and over again that I reckon going after De Goey was a great idea. But there aren't going to be a lot of De Goeys available for us to go after. We might get someone good in the draft, but AFL-standard midfielders usually take at least a couple of years to mature.

Notwithstanding what happened yesterday, I continue to think that our current list is pretty good. We'll become more of a contender not so much through trading more players in but through the further development of our young (or youngish) stars: King, Caminiti, Owens, Philippou, Windhager and NWM. We'll need to recruit more talent to replace some of our senior players as they move towards retirement. But we can't expect to have a sufficiently strong group of young players to be able to afford to delist guys such as Ross and Crouch and then hope to keep going forward.

[Teflon]

Sadly, I suspect that playing Bytel more regularly in seniors will represent a backwards step in his development in that fans will be forced to see see that he is truly a GOP rather than the potential superstar many seem to believe him to be. Something like that happened with Sharman yesterday.

Lyon ia doing a good job at developing the players who look most likely to take the club somewhere in future years: NWM, Owens, Philippou, Caminiti, arguably Byrnes. And Windhager has responded admirably to being dropped.

I don’t really buy the argument “player x should be given a run of games to show if they can make it.” And, while some fans constantly ask for this, they don’t truly want it either. For instance, would any of you really be happy to watch Sharman play another half dozen games of AFL like yesterday’s without being dropped? (“He just needs to be given a couple more games to prove he’s not up to it. Only fair.”)

Cheap shot really. Apply your argument to Ross, Crouch and Greshham, I believe these guys are taking up first choice senior positions? How many games do they get to show they are more than making up numbers.

Crouch was one of our better players yesterday IMO. Ross has been putting runs on the board for years and has had a pretty good season up to yesterday. Gresham provides an unpredictable elemenet around clearances that we sorely missed yesterday. The midfielder who has been struggling the most this year is Steele: do you propose that he get dropped for Bytel?

If the senior players at a club are playing poorly, the solution is not to replace them with GOPs from the VFL: it's to find a way to get them to play better. It's your classiest players that are going to win you premierships, not the hard-working GOPs. One criticism of Lyon is that he is overly fond of hard-working GOPs, so if he doesn't consider Bytel to be an automatic first selection, we should take note of that.

Having said all that, I'm fully expecting Bytel to get a full game next week. Lyon has clearly worked out an order of precedence, and Bytel looks to be next cab off the rank: way ahead of Billings and also slightly ahead of Windhager.

Gresham ain't a midfielder, Ross is just solid and Crouch is ok. Better opposition midfielders, make them look like try hards.
If we recruit better mids, none of them will survive.

Bang on and it is a cheap shot abs more lame thinking which is why Crows have rebuilt since 2017 GF appearance and we’ve been in no man’s land for over a decade
We keep going back to the sane Shiite well …asking the same group of players to miraculously become guns
Seb Ross, Crouch and 2023 Jack Steele ain’t a top line midfield compared to top 8 sides
They get brushed aside by big, fast bull mids and can not spread at all or chase
We must plan for the future now
Any dimwit who says “I don’t believe in getting blocks of games into youngsters…” how the f k does Windhager or Bytel develop by being sub 5-6 weeks on eve playing bits n pieces??
So Seb Ross can continue to run around at 33% disposal efficiency, turning it over and bombing into forward 50??? His disposal at 30 years old will not magically improve under pressure.
It’s not about Ross - have said before been a good servant
But we got to move on
IF Steele is injured (I think Steele has been avg for 12 months and nowhere near his previous top 3 Brownlow output) then we have to give these younger mids a game ffs
This side is at best bottom 8 (7/8) on talent at best…worst 9-14
Have to get genuine class
By the way read with interest how the Crows targeted skilled players over anything…think we saw that yesterday…
We gave 2-3 decent kicks???
6/8 ball butchers and guys like Zac Jones are more of the same
Have to promote/develop guys who hit targets under pressure

[meher baba]

Sadly, I suspect that playing Bytel more regularly in seniors will represent a backwards step in his development in that fans will be forced to see see that he is truly a GOP rather than the potential superstar many seem to believe him to be. Something like that happened with Sharman yesterday.

Lyon ia doing a good job at developing the players who look most likely to take the club somewhere in future years: NWM, Owens, Philippou, Caminiti, arguably Byrnes. And Windhager has responded admirably to being dropped.

I don’t really buy the argument “player x should be given a run of games to show if they can make it.” And, while some fans constantly ask for this, they don’t truly want it either. For instance, would any of you really be happy to watch Sharman play another half dozen games of AFL like yesterday’s without being dropped? (“He just needs to be given a couple more games to prove he’s not up to it. Only fair.”)

Cheap shot really. Apply your argument to Ross, Crouch and Greshham, I believe these guys are taking up first choice senior positions? How many games do they get to show they are more than making up numbers.

Crouch was one of our better players yesterday IMO. Ross has been putting runs on the board for years and has had a pretty good season up to yesterday. Gresham provides an unpredictable elemenet around clearances that we sorely missed yesterday. The midfielder who has been struggling the most this year is Steele: do you propose that he get dropped for Bytel?

If the senior players at a club are playing poorly, the solution is not to replace them with GOPs from the VFL: it's to find a way to get them to play better. It's your classiest players that are going to win you premierships, not the hard-working GOPs. One criticism of Lyon is that he is overly fond of hard-working GOPs, so if he doesn't consider Bytel to be an automatic first selection, we should take note of that.

Having said all that, I'm fully expecting Bytel to get a full game next week. Lyon has clearly worked out an order of precedence, and Bytel looks to be next cab off the rank: way ahead of Billings and also slightly ahead of Windhager.

Gresham ain't a midfielder, Ross is just solid and Crouch is ok. Better opposition midfielders, make them look like try hards.
If we recruit better mids, none of them will survive.

Bang on and it is a cheap shot abs more lame thinking which is why Crows have rebuilt since 2017 GF appearance and we’ve been in no man’s land for over a decade
We keep going back to the sane Shiite well …asking the same group of players to miraculously be one guns
Seb Ross, Crouch and 2023 Jack Steele ain’t a top line midfield compared to top 8 sides
They get brushed aside by big, fast bull mids and can not spread at all or chase
We must plan for the future now
Any dimwit who says “I don’t believe in getting blocks of games into youngsters…” how the f k does Windhager or Bytel develop by being sub 5-6 weeks on eve playing bits n pieces??
So Seb Ross can continue to run around at 33% disposal efficiency, turning it over and bombing into forward 50??? His disposal at 30 years old will not magically improve under pressure.
It’s not about Ross - have said before been a good servant
But we got to move on
IF Steele is injured (I think Steele has been avg for 12 months and nowhere near his previous top 3 Brownlow output) then we have to give these younger mids a game ffs
This side is at best bottom 8 (7/8) on talent at best…worst 9-14
Have to get genuine class
By the way read with interest how the Crows targeted skilled players over anything…think we saw that yesterday…
We gave 2-3 decent kicks???
6/8 ball butchers and guys like Zac Jones are more of the same
Have to promote/develop guys who hit targets under pressure

So you reckon Bytel is a "gun"?

[Teflon]

Sadly, I suspect that playing Bytel more regularly in seniors will represent a backwards step in his development in that fans will be forced to see see that he is truly a GOP rather than the potential superstar many seem to believe him to be. Something like that happened with Sharman yesterday.

Lyon ia doing a good job at developing the players who look most likely to take the club somewhere in future years: NWM, Owens, Philippou, Caminiti, arguably Byrnes. And Windhager has responded admirably to being dropped.

I don’t really buy the argument “player x should be given a run of games to show if they can make it.” And, while some fans constantly ask for this, they don’t truly want it either. For instance, would any of you really be happy to watch Sharman play another half dozen games of AFL like yesterday’s without being dropped? (“He just needs to be given a couple more games to prove he’s not up to it. Only fair.”)

Cheap shot really. Apply your argument to Ross, Crouch and Greshham, I believe these guys are taking up first choice senior positions? How many games do they get to show they are more than making up numbers.

Crouch was one of our better players yesterday IMO. Ross has been putting runs on the board for years and has had a pretty good season up to yesterday. Gresham provides an unpredictable elemenet around clearances that we sorely missed yesterday. The midfielder who has been struggling the most this year is Steele: do you propose that he get dropped for Bytel?

If the senior players at a club are playing poorly, the solution is not to replace them with GOPs from the VFL: it's to find a way to get them to play better. It's your classiest players that are going to win you premierships, not the hard-working GOPs. One criticism of Lyon is that he is overly fond of hard-working GOPs, so if he doesn't consider Bytel to be an automatic first selection, we should take note of that.

Having said all that, I'm fully expecting Bytel to get a full game next week. Lyon has clearly worked out an order of precedence, and Bytel looks to be next cab off the rank: way ahead of Billings and also slightly ahead of Windhager.

Gresham ain't a midfielder, Ross is just solid and Crouch is ok. Better opposition midfielders, make them look like try hards.
If we recruit better mids, none of them will survive.

Bang on and it is a cheap shot abs more lame thinking which is why Crows have rebuilt since 2017 GF appearance and we’ve been in no man’s land for over a decade
We keep going back to the sane Shiite well …asking the same group of players to miraculously be one guns
Seb Ross, Crouch and 2023 Jack Steele ain’t a top line midfield compared to top 8 sides
They get brushed aside by big, fast bull mids and can not spread at all or chase
We must plan for the future now
Any dimwit who says “I don’t believe in getting blocks of games into youngsters…” how the f k does Windhager or Bytel develop by being sub 5-6 weeks on eve playing bits n pieces??
So Seb Ross can continue to run around at 33% disposal efficiency, turning it over and bombing into forward 50??? His disposal at 30 years old will not magically improve under pressure.
It’s not about Ross - have said before been a good servant
But we got to move on
IF Steele is injured (I think Steele has been avg for 12 months and nowhere near his previous top 3 Brownlow output) then we have to give these younger mids a game ffs
This side is at best bottom 8 (7/8) on talent at best…worst 9-14
Have to get genuine class
By the way read with interest how the Crows targeted skilled players over anything…think we saw that yesterday…
We gave 2-3 decent kicks???
6/8 ball butchers and guys like Zac Jones are more of the same
Have to promote/develop guys who hit targets under pressure

So you reckon Bytel is a "gun"?

What I “reckon” is you or I would have no clue cause how many consecutive full games has he had to find out??????
I re Kon I know what Seb Ross brings now by 30..
do you think this midfield now is top 4 quality??

[meher baba]

What I “reckon” is you or I would have no clue cause how many consecutive full games has he had to find out??????
I re Kon I know what Seb Ross brings now by 30..
do you think this midfield now is top 4 quality??

Well here's a paradox: I need to defend Lyon's approach to you.

I reckon the coaching staff this year are doing a terrific job with the younger players: Caminiti, Philippou, NWM and particularly Owens, who has come on in leaps and bounds. Windhager hasn't quite come up to the grade so far and has been made to work on his game at Sandy. Sharman has been given an opportunity, but hasn't really delivered and may also have to go back to the Zebras for a while.

Lyon has put confidence in the young guys who are showing that they deserve that confidence. And he's challenging the ones who aren't quite there. He clearly thinks quite a lot of Bytel (more than me, I suspect), and I predict that Bytel will get a full game next week.

As for "ball butchery", I think Lyon would agree with my view that a lot of this relates to structure: if the players are not in the right place to receive the ball, the guy trying to kick or pass it is going to stuff it up more often than not. Adelaide successfully monstered our structure yesterday, more or less beating us at our own game. When that happens, there are going to be heaps of disposal errors. But I think they're usually more of a symptom than a cause.

[meher baba]

deleted

[shanegrambeau]

If Campbell did well, perhaps a senior game?

I'm beginning to worry about Rowan Marshall's work load as well as his effectiveness.

ditto
Mason Wood

Both stars, but Holla looks to be stretching his resources. (If only Paddy had stayed! urrgghh) The battery is being asked to start a diesel train.

Speaking of motoring metaphors, Mason Wood had a brilliant start, but he is definitely spluttering too - I thought he might be rested for the Adelaide game - but no DAmc soo..in he goes.

[CQ SAINT]

Sadly, I suspect that playing Bytel more regularly in seniors will represent a backwards step in his development in that fans will be forced to see see that he is truly a GOP rather than the potential superstar many seem to believe him to be. Something like that happened with Sharman yesterday.

Lyon ia doing a good job at developing the players who look most likely to take the club somewhere in future years: NWM, Owens, Philippou, Caminiti, arguably Byrnes. And Windhager has responded admirably to being dropped.

I don’t really buy the argument “player x should be given a run of games to show if they can make it.” And, while some fans constantly ask for this, they don’t truly want it either. For instance, would any of you really be happy to watch Sharman play another half dozen games of AFL like yesterday’s without being dropped? (“He just needs to be given a couple more games to prove he’s not up to it. Only fair.”)

Cheap shot really. Apply your argument to Ross, Crouch and Greshham, I believe these guys are taking up first choice senior positions? How many games do they get to show they are more than making up numbers.

Crouch was one of our better players yesterday IMO. Ross has been putting runs on the board for years and has had a pretty good season up to yesterday. Gresham provides an unpredictable elemenet around clearances that we sorely missed yesterday. The midfielder who has been struggling the most this year is Steele: do you propose that he get dropped for Bytel?

If the senior players at a club are playing poorly, the solution is not to replace them with GOPs from the VFL: it's to find a way to get them to play better. It's your classiest players that are going to win you premierships, not the hard-working GOPs. One criticism of Lyon is that he is overly fond of hard-working GOPs, so if he doesn't consider Bytel to be an automatic first selection, we should take note of that.

Having said all that, I'm fully expecting Bytel to get a full game next week. Lyon has clearly worked out an order of precedence, and Bytel looks to be next cab off the rank: way ahead of Billings and also slightly ahead of Windhager.

Gresham ain't a midfielder, Ross is just solid and Crouch is ok. Better opposition midfielders, make them look like try hards.
If we recruit better mids, none of them will survive.

Bang on and it is a cheap shot abs more lame thinking which is why Crows have rebuilt since 2017 GF appearance and we’ve been in no man’s land for over a decade
We keep going back to the sane Shiite well …asking the same group of players to miraculously be one guns
Seb Ross, Crouch and 2023 Jack Steele ain’t a top line midfield compared to top 8 sides
They get brushed aside by big, fast bull mids and can not spread at all or chase
We must plan for the future now
Any dimwit who says “I don’t believe in getting blocks of games into youngsters…” how the f k does Windhager or Bytel develop by being sub 5-6 weeks on eve playing bits n pieces??
So Seb Ross can continue to run around at 33% disposal efficiency, turning it over and bombing into forward 50??? His disposal at 30 years old will not magically improve under pressure.
It’s not about Ross - have said before been a good servant
But we got to move on
IF Steele is injured (I think Steele has been avg for 12 months and nowhere near his previous top 3 Brownlow output) then we have to give these younger mids a game ffs
This side is at best bottom 8 (7/8) on talent at best…worst 9-14
Have to get genuine class
By the way read with interest how the Crows targeted skilled players over anything…think we saw that yesterday…
We gave 2-3 decent kicks???
6/8 ball butchers and guys like Zac Jones are more of the same
Have to promote/develop guys who hit targets under pressure

So you reckon Bytel is a "gun"?

So you think Bytel is the problem?

[B.M]

Ross always picks the best team on any given week - regardless of age - does not compromise

Integrity in selection is his mantra - Windy, Webster, King and Gresh will come in

Paton, Bytel, Membrey, Steele out

BTW
*** f*** I hate multiple quoting

[SaintPav]

As you’re still on your training wheels, graduate to single quoting first then we might let you advance to multiple quoting. Baby steps.

[B.M]

It’s fkn ridiculous

It takes a dumb person to not realise who someone is responding to, and most half intelligent people can follow a conversation without having to see half a dozen quotes to work it out

Retarded