Is Caminiti in trouble?

[Teflon]

talking about ageist , confused 'n forgetful

i had my scenes mixed up

it was the furies in face paint 'n carrying lumber
the other muppets on roller skates hanging around toilets
were the punks

we were still playing by the rules in my neck of the woods

one on one 'n not carrying it on when one ended on his arse
AND no weapons ... thankfully

even knuckle dusters were seen as low rent

seems all very civilised by todays standards

Great movie.

[meher baba]

Watch the incident without reading all the ‘opinion’ and all the background noise. Was it a brutal hit? It’s like he’s just pushing off the defender to try and get space. He didn’t swing an arm or throw a punch did he??

I realise now that I must have been looking at the wrong video of the incident. Can you please post the right one: you know, the one where Caminiti is just pushing off the defender to try and get space?

[meher baba]

More seriously, I reckon Caminiti and the club were pretty lucky to get 3 weeks, as it looks like the AFL was originally wanting to take a bit of a stand over this incident and sentence him to 6 weeks or perhaps even more a la Barry Hall.

I suspect there were plenty of discussions behind the scenes and cooler heads ultimately prevailed on the basis that 1) Murphy made the first contact, 2) the video could be reasonably interpreted as showing that Caminiti was never intending to do anything more than push Murphy in the chest, and 3) Caminiti is very young and isn't known for rough play.

In the context, 3 weeks represents a considerable backtrack from where the AFL seems to have wanted this to go. It would be unreasonable to expect the tribunal to have thrown the matter out altogether: that would have been attacked in the media as showing that the AFL has gone soft on the concussion issue. If the video had been a bit clearer, and had demonstrated more a bit clearly that Caminiti was making a shoving action rather than a hitting action, then he might have gotten off. But unfortunately that was not to be.

[Scollop]

"I challenge anyone to do it now. Watch the incident without reading all the ‘opinion’ and all the background noise. Was it a brutal hit? It’s like he’s just pushing off the defender to try and get space. He didn’t swing an arm or throw a punch did he??"

I took up your challenge. Caminiti intentionally and aggressively moves towards Murphy, pushes aggressively, both arms, Murphy’s body lowers, and a forearm cops him on the chin. Forceful contact to the head. Not what Caminiti intended, but it happened

So Caminiti is now Bruce Lee. He moved towards his opponent and just like Bruce with his one inch punch, Cammo can inflict a lot of hurt when he pushes from a very short distance.

Cammo also made a very mean face similar to when Bruce Lee used to express when executing his attack by hand or foot. Therefore the AFL and neutral objective people like yourself see this mean looking facial expression as part of the reason to suspend him for 3 weeks.

Anyhoo…I can’t argue with you when you have so eloquently described how aggressive Cammo was with the use of two x the word aggressively in the same sentence.

[SaintPav]

It should never have been graded intentional by the deadbeat dad in the first place.

[asiu]

The AFL mirrors society in general.
A complete and utter s*** show.

That’s the only ‘reality’ here

.




i agree with that
except i actually think we are running two 'realities' concurrently

the control 'n domination crowd (negative polarity) ...are getting more outrageous by the day

exampled by the explosion of stabbings in qld by young bucks carrying knives ... life is very cheap , it seems
(theirs 'n someone elses)

must be a scary playground , that one


the positive polarity mob .... healers , artists , truth seekers , mums n dads tryn to do the do
seem to be finally clicking in 'faster' to how things could/should be done ....(with their fellow man in mind)

the pendulum swings a long way in both directions
from what i experience

the bad are badder
the good , gooder

[takeaway]

"I challenge anyone to do it now. Watch the incident without reading all the ‘opinion’ and all the background noise. Was it a brutal hit? It’s like he’s just pushing off the defender to try and get space. He didn’t swing an arm or throw a punch did he??"

I took up your challenge. Caminiti intentionally and aggressively moves towards Murphy, pushes aggressively, both arms, Murphy’s body lowers, and a forearm cops him on the chin. Forceful contact to the head. Not what Caminiti intended, but it happened

So Caminiti is now Bruce Lee. He moved towards his opponent and just like Bruce with his one inch punch, Cammo can inflict a lot of hurt when he pushes from a very short distance.

Cammo also made a very mean face similar to when Bruce Lee used to express when executing his attack by hand or foot. Therefore the AFL and neutral objective people like yourself see this mean looking facial expression as part of the reason to suspend him for 3 weeks.

Anyhoo…I can’t argue with you when you have so eloquently described how aggressive Cammo was with the use of two x the word aggressively in the same sentence.

Aggressive AND careless. Hardly a open palms push with both arms was it? Forearms and all. Did Camma have a mean face as well? Should have got 5 weeks then.

Needs to take "pushing off" lessons from Tom Hawkins. Ha. Ha. That should get a few started.

[samoht]

I hope they said something to Murphy too.
Gave him a stern warning.
You shouldn't go around punching people, initiating trouble.

It was a hard punch to Caminiti's back. It was uncalled for.
If it was "insufficient force" Caminti wouldn't have taken exception to it.

It wasn't a Gehrig love tap.

Or is that okay, now?
You can go around doing that?

[Scollop]

Watch the incident without reading all the ‘opinion’ and all the background noise. Was it a brutal hit? It’s like he’s just pushing off the defender to try and get space. He didn’t swing an arm or throw a punch did he??

I realise now that I must have been looking at the wrong video of the incident. Can you please post the right one: you know, the one where Caminiti is just pushing off the defender to try and get space?

How much force can a player inflict with the distance between Cammo and Murphy. As takeaway described; Cammo ‘moved’ towards Murphy. He didn’t run at him and shirt front him. He didn’t throw a round house fore arm or throw a punch. He bloody well moved from standing start. He basically leaned into him with negligible speed and momentum

When a physicist explains movement and speed and momentum, there is no emotion or ‘opinion’. The physicist won’t take into account the facial expressions of players and he won’t take into account whether one player falls to the ground and is upset/shocked/fearful (or any other emotions) or if that player whinges and makes a scene after the incident

The AFL pretends to be looking after players but they aren’t. They like seeing players get collected and the traditionalists have allowed the occasional shirt front and put it all down to ‘contesting’ the footy. In the meantime, players are paying the price with brain injuries and multiple concussions.

Here’s the great injustice below in the incident I’m about to describe. Here’s where science and physics is thrown out the door to retain the ‘feel’ of our game and appease the traditionalists. The collision from the incident below is what the AFL should be ruling on harshly, not a push and not some contact which seems ‘aggressive’ because of someone’s facial expression

One player is 5 metres from the footy (player DM) and another player is only 1 metre from the footy (player HC). Both see a loose ground ball and both are the two closest from opposing teams.

One split second later, player HC is now only half a metre from the footy and he extends his arms to pick up the footy and it does a leg break…so he attempts to pick it up on the second bounce (he’s slowed his running and player HC is virtually stationary at this point)

The other bloke (player DM) who is running at full speed at about 30 km per hour has now made up some ground and is only 2 metres from his opponent who has failed to collect the footy on the first bounce. By the time HC gets to place hands on the footy, the other guy - player DM - has made more ground and just a fraction of a second after player HC has hands on the footy, player AM attempts to rip that footy out of HC’s grasp.

Here’s where the physics come into it: Player DM uses all the weight and momentum of his torso and upper arm/shoulder bone to make full body contact with HC’s head and face (remember that player DM has not slowed down - he is still moving at full speed). Weight x Speed. That’s a lot of force

The resultant collision left player Hunter Clark bloodied and taken off to take no further part in the match. Player David Mackay fell to the ground and stayed there for a little while as if to give the perception that he was hurt. Player HC ended up with multiple face fractures and was subbed out while player DM played on for the remainder of that game.

The commentary team on the night as well as most of the footy media deemed it to be a fair contest. The MRO agreed with most of the footy media that were in the ‘traditionalist’ camp who “didn’t want to change the nature of our sport”. The AFL clumsily decided to prosecute and take DM to the tribunal. We all know that Adelaide FC successfully argued for DM and got him off while HC spent a considerable amount of time in hospital and close to two months on the sidelines

The head is sacrosanct

[samoht]

It'll be interesting to see if Murphy continues punching opponents in the back at will with the same "insufficient force."
The AFL has okayed it, after all.

You can "Knock yourself out, Murphy." ... seems to be the message.

[saynta]

3 weeks is better than I hoped for. Pity the filth player wasn't cited.

It was looked at - insufficient force.

Yeah, Caminiti stayed on his feet and later didn't fake concussion.

You have completely invented a narrative there, unbelievable.

What did I say that was untrue? Caminiti stayed on his feet.....yes,

Caminiti didn't fake that he had concussion....again true.

[SaintPav]

Are they going to appeal or will they accept it?

[saynta]

This Murphy has a history of concussions, a bit like McCartin, who is ko’d by the most seemingly-innocuous incidents.

Concussions has become a minefield for the AFL, hence its desperation to be seen to be taking strong action on anything that leads to a concussion. I see now Ablett Sr will sue the league over historic injuries.

How long before the league puts a limit on how many concussions a player can have before he is retired against his will.

This 'forced retirement' is being talked about right now, I reckon, because of the John Barnes, Ablett and other class actions.
Will come very very soon.

I spent a few years in insurance, and Workers Comp insurers NEVER insure sheep shearers for example, because of back injuries etc.
AFL will need to quickly jump onto the concussion thing to prevent huge payouts

Ok then. Get players to sign waivers.
This business of suspending everyone for anything related to head issues is beyond ridiculous. It’s completely ruining the game. If you won’t sign a waiver then you don’t get paid your $700k a year. To earn that money you need to give up something along the way, otherwise get a 9-5 job like us commoners.

It will be touch footy before we know it.

.

Now that is completely unbelievable. You obviously know f*** all about the law.

[samoht]

The other thing is ...

Is 5 punches of insufficient force on the same spot over the course of a game still considered insufficient force?

And there was nothing insufficient about that one punch that we saw.

[Scollop]

The other thing is ...

Is 5 punches of insufficient force on the same spot over the course of a game still considered insufficient force?

And there was nothing insufficient about that one punch that we saw.

Only if you’re Steven Baker

[amusingname]

3 weeks is better than I hoped for. Pity the filth player wasn't cited.

It was looked at - insufficient force.

Yeah, Caminiti stayed on his feet and later didn't fake concussion.

You have completely invented a narrative there, unbelievable.

What did I say that was untrue? Caminiti stayed on his feet.....yes,

Caminiti didn't fake that he had concussion....again true.

You and everyone who reads that know what you are getting at, that you claim that Caminiti didn’t fake concussion but Murphy did. I called you out on calling it an ‘alleged concussion’ in this thread which you say was ‘clearly tongue in cheek’. You can roll your eyes as much as you want, if you make ridiculous claims you will get called out.

[Scollop]

3 weeks is better than I hoped for. Pity the filth player wasn't cited.

It was looked at - insufficient force.

Yeah, Caminiti stayed on his feet and later didn't fake concussion.

You have completely invented a narrative there, unbelievable.

What did I say that was untrue? Caminiti stayed on his feet.....yes,

Caminiti didn't fake that he had concussion....again true.

You and everyone who reads that know what you are getting at, that you claim that Caminiti didn’t fake concussion but Murphy did. I called you out on calling it an ‘alleged concussion’ in this thread which you say was ‘clearly tongue in cheek’. You can roll your eyes as much as you want, if you make ridiculous claims you will get called out.

The reason saynta is calling it ‘alleged concussion’ is because it didn’t look like your standard concussion. If the Collingwood doctor has ruled that Murphy has concussion so that they protect their player from any further exacerbation of a pre-existing condition - then that’s fine, but Caminiti did not cause the concussion.

Did Paddy McCartin look like he had a standard concussion a couple of weeks back? Murphy has a history similar to Paddy.

It looked like negligible force. It’s not the sort of contact that would knock someone out.

We all know what concussion looks like. The signs of a clear concussion were not evident. He ran off the ground unassisted. Murphy wasn’t raising his arms in what the medical profession call the fencing position

[amusingname]

And saying "Caminiti stayed on his feet and later didnt fake concussion" isn't directly implying that Murphy and collingwood did?

Saynta knows exactly what he was saying and when called on it goes to the 'it was clearly tongue in cheek' defense

[bigcarl]

This 'forced retirement' is being talked about right now, I reckon, because of the John Barnes, Ablett and other class actions.
Will come very very soon.

We ought to sue Ablett Sr for damages to St Kilda players. I can think of several

[takeaway]

Watch the incident without reading all the ‘opinion’ and all the background noise. Was it a brutal hit? It’s like he’s just pushing off the defender to try and get space. He didn’t swing an arm or throw a punch did he??

I realise now that I must have been looking at the wrong video of the incident. Can you please post the right one: you know, the one where Caminiti is just pushing off the defender to try and get space?

How much force can a player inflict with the distance between Cammo and Murphy. As takeaway described; Cammo ‘moved’ towards Murphy. He didn’t run at him and shirt front him. He didn’t throw a round house fore arm or throw a punch. He bloody well moved from standing start. He basically leaned into him with negligible speed and momentum

When a physicist explains movement and speed and momentum, there is no emotion or ‘opinion’. The physicist won’t take into account the facial expressions of players and he won’t take into account whether one player falls to the ground and is upset/shocked/fearful (or any other emotions) or if that player whinges and makes a scene after the incident

The AFL pretends to be looking after players but they aren’t. They like seeing players get collected and the traditionalists have allowed the occasional shirt front and put it all down to ‘contesting’ the footy. In the meantime, players are paying the price with brain injuries and multiple concussions.

Here’s the great injustice below in the incident I’m about to describe. Here’s where science and physics is thrown out the door to retain the ‘feel’ of our game and appease the traditionalists. The collision from the incident below is what the AFL should be ruling on harshly, not a push and not some contact which seems ‘aggressive’ because of someone’s facial expression

One player is 5 metres from the footy (player DM) and another player is only 1 metre from the footy (player HC). Both see a loose ground ball and both are the two closest from opposing teams.

One split second later, player HC is now only half a metre from the footy and he extends his arms to pick up the footy and it does a leg break…so he attempts to pick it up on the second bounce (he’s slowed his running and player HC is virtually stationary at this point)

The other bloke (player DM) who is running at full speed at about 30 km per hour has now made up some ground and is only 2 metres from his opponent who has failed to collect the footy on the first bounce. By the time HC gets to place hands on the footy, the other guy - player DM - has made more ground and just a fraction of a second after player HC has hands on the footy, player AM attempts to rip that footy out of HC’s grasp.

Here’s where the physics come into it: Player DM uses all the weight and momentum of his torso and upper arm/shoulder bone to make full body contact with HC’s head and face (remember that player DM has not slowed down - he is still moving at full speed). Weight x Speed. That’s a lot of force

The resultant collision left player Hunter Clark bloodied and taken off to take no further part in the match. Player David Mackay fell to the ground and stayed there for a little while as if to give the perception that he was hurt. Player HC ended up with multiple face fractures and was subbed out while player DM played on for the remainder of that game.

The commentary team on the night as well as most of the footy media deemed it to be a fair contest. The MRO agreed with most of the footy media that were in the ‘traditionalist’ camp who “didn’t want to change the nature of our sport”. The AFL clumsily decided to prosecute and take DM to the tribunal. We all know that Adelaide FC successfully argued for DM and got him off while HC spent a considerable amount of time in hospital and close to two months on the sidelines

The head is sacrosanct

Leaned into him? You must get rid of that curved TV. That reckless forearm had a fair bit of zing to it. Obviously caused the concussion.

Again, what has the HC and DM clash got to do with it? An unfortunate collision between 2 players both with their hands down trying to get the ball, and that was how the tribunal ruled.

Anyway good to see you admit you are not looking at the Caminiti incident objectively.

[Yorkeys]

MRO processes add a bizarre new element and what's left of its credibility drops further:
AFL is now making ambit claims i.e. over the top 5 weeks when 2 should be max; and then advocates haggle down, in this case to 3. Nonsense and preempts an appeal.
The fact that Murphy can just smirk and get on a high rocking horse without sanction defies natural justice, at least a fine. Instigator 1, Responder 0. Game is the loser.
MRO represents a narrow and arbitrary view of things, seems to ignore precedent and the body of case law it has created, tries to be populist rather than pragmatic/wise. If three weeks is fair then there are going to be a lot of incidents that cop that from now on, unless the player is from a big club. Everything is negotiable at AFL HQ nowadays, its show us the money, forget principle. And punching forwards in the back is ok? Come on. There is a big element of making it up as they go along.

[samoht]

Next we'll have an "authorised punching in the back rule."
We might as well.

[Scollop]

Anyway good to see you admit you are not looking at the Caminiti incident objectively.

Most people believe what they here from media wankers like Whateley or think that the MRO is objective.

Buckley thinks it deserved 2 weeks. Listen to him if you don't want to think for yourself

I think the AFL shat itself just like Nathan Murphy shat himself. That is my view. It's not going to be the first time or the last time that the AFL get it wrong


https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/buckl ... 340e1d1fda

[CarlD]

Does it mean that there are two outcomes for the same action - if you concuss the person you get several weeks, if they play on with no ill affects you perhaps cop a week or maybe a fine. Now the AFL issue bans based on how much of a glass jaw someone has even though the action was the same. Have I got this wrong?

[samoht]

Anyway good to see you admit you are not looking at the Caminiti incident objectively.

Most people believe what they here from media wankers like Whateley or think that the MRO is objective.

Buckley thinks it deserved 2 weeks. Listen to him if you don't want to think for yourself

I think the AFL shat itself just like Nathan Murphy shat himself. That is my view. It's not going to be the first time or the last time that the AFL get it wrong


https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/buckl ... 340e1d1fda

Actually, that footage shows Murphy punching Caminiti around the neck and face with enough force to jolt his head.
The other footage that I saw was not as clear.
Insufficient force?

What is the AFL authorising here?

Murphy got no warning for that?

That punch that Murphy threw might have had sufficient force to knock Murphy himself out (if he'd received it).