What About Our Coaches?

[asiu]

we'll be in trouble soon enough

keep the pressure off the the young end of town
... but keep getting games into em

its a huge bonus to be playing the maggots on neutral territory
... coz thats really all we'll have to pin our crest to

beat'n gc is a real possibilty
but i'm doubtful that we are ready for the big end of town
just yet

[Sanctorum]

Yep but what will be fascinating as sides work us out…does Lyon have other gears …

From what I have seen in the first 3 games Teflon I believe Lyon and his assistants do in fact have 'other gears' at their disposal.

I say that because we now see players (Gresham excepted) actually playing the roles set for them by the coaches which is the real reason this team has managed to win games with so many key players unavailable through injury.

As Lyon pointed out in his post-match press conference, in the past when Jack Steele, a talismanic leader, has been omitted through injury the team has not managed to win, but they did so emphatically without Steele on Saturday night.

It was also obvious that Brad Scott had worked out the strategies employed by St Kilda in the first two games because this was a vastly different style of game to the previous two, don't you think??

While the loss of Webster this week is covered by Paton, finding someone to replace Wood poses a much bigger problem.

But I feel encouraged by the way the coaches have been able to get players to punch above their weight, so it could be anyone of Cordy, Owens and Phillipou to change their role to the 'utility' cameo Wood has played so effectively this year.

Finally, we now know that this group are playing not just for the coach and each other, but as a team, evidence of which was the remarkable fightback early in the last quarter when Essendon had all the momentum and threatened to poop on St Kilda's parade......

[B.M]

Impatient

The fact I have coached - for 20 odd years

Leads me to those comments

I have had great seasons and poor seasons - I haven’t changed much - just had better teams who could carry out game plans

Same could be said for Ross (or any other coach for that matter!)

Coaches are obviously important- in a two horse race they can be the difference- but are not key

We play Melbourne or Collingwood right now - I don’t care if Norm Smith is coaching us - we lose be 8

Just be realistic

[meher baba]

Lyon is a high quality coach, and Enright, Lenny and Harves are high quality assistants.

But the list we have clearly isn't as bad as many (including me at times) had thought. It's not quite a premiership-winning list, but it could possibly develop into one: if we'd managed to snare De Goey, w'd be getting pretty close IMO.

We were 8 and 3 at the halfway point last season: we had a really good backline, our midfield was competitive (albeit a little one-paced other than on the comparatively rare occasions that Jones was available to play), and our forward line had some strengths, although we had problems with the accuracy of both King and Higgins when taking set shots on goal. We were looking set to make the finals quite comfortably until something broke and the players started to lose all confidence. We'll probably never know exactly what happened, but clearly something was wrong with the coaching setup.

This year, we've missed our injured players in the forward line, but the backline has improved still further with NWM coming good and with the addition of Stocker. The midfield is also looking a little better (at least it was before Steele got injured): Windhager continues to improve, Hill and, in particular, Wood have lifted, Marshall is relishing the role of sole ruckman, and Byrnes has played two good games out of three.

The forward line is clearly weak without King and Membrey, but there are some good things happening there too: Owens has continued to improve as we all expected him to do, and Higgins has clearly done a lot of work in the pre-season on his set shots. Although he had a quiet opening game, Butler has also looked to have regained some of his old confidence in his last two games. And, although we'd rather see King and Membrey back, Caminiti and Phillipou have performed creditiably as fill-ins.

So, yes, the change of coaching personnel has helped a lot this year. But our list - even with all of our injuries - ain't half bad: Wilkie, Wood, Hill, Sinclair, Steele, Marshall and Crouch should all be considered A-grade players at the moment, and, on current form, Battle, NWM, Ross, Owens, Windhager and Higgins aren't a huge way off.

It's amazing how much better a playing list looks after a few good wins.

[B.M]

Wow

Some perspective

It’s like Lyon has never lost?… perhaps look at his last 4 years at Freo

And Ratten never won?… coached both us and Carlton to finals series


And I agree, he is a far better coach than Ratts, but until he gets a better list, I’ll guarantee he doesn’t finish top 4

I’ll also wager we don’t make the 8 this season… which is OK and nothing against Ross

Just don’t have the quality to compete with the best teams
Melbourne, Collingwood are streets ahead

We are in a group from 8-14th

That’s the way I see it … injuries will end up f***ing is in the long run

[The Fireman]

I’ll wager we do make the eight

[asiu]

not me

i agree with Mart ... injuries will do us in
(over the long run + kids tiring)

[The Fireman]

not me

i agree with Mart ... injuries will do us in
(over the long run + kids tiring)

Jump on the goodship lollipop asiu. Enjoy the ride

Let’s organise our finals tickets

[asiu]

all power to us , if we do make the eight

can we pick up another kid or kids via the mid season draft
and throw them into the deep end as well ?

though : i'd still put my dollar on pleasing end of year high order draft picks as things stand

even at 4zip after beating gold coast

[Teflon]

Wow

Some perspective

It’s like Lyon has never lost?… perhaps look at his last 4 years at Freo

And Ratten never won?… coached both us and Carlton to finals series


And I agree, he is a far better coach than Ratts, but until he gets a better list, I’ll guarantee he doesn’t finish top 4

I’ll also wager we don’t make the 8 this season… which is OK and nothing against Ross

Just don’t have the quality to compete with the best teams
Melbourne, Collingwood are streets ahead

We are in a group from 8-14th

That’s the way I see it … injuries will end up f***ing is in the long run

I’ll wager your binary W/L attempts to contrast Lyon v Ratten is dumb
I’ll wager this sides playing a brand of footy now that at least has the ability to stand up when pressured
I’ll wager Dons draw level last year under crumbles Ratten and we lose that match by 5 goals
I just miss my friend…Mr Andy Dupree..

[Teflon]

Lyon is a high quality coach, and Enright, Lenny and Harves are high quality assistants.

But the list we have clearly isn't as bad as many (including me at times) had thought. It's not quite a premiership-winning list, but it could possibly develop into one: if we'd managed to snare De Goey, w'd be getting pretty close IMO.

We were 8 and 3 at the halfway point last season: we had a really good backline, our midfield was competitive (albeit a little one-paced other than on the comparatively rare occasions that Jones was available to play), and our forward line had some strengths, although we had problems with the accuracy of both King and Higgins when taking set shots on goal. We were looking set to make the finals quite comfortably until something broke and the players started to lose all confidence. We'll probably never know exactly what happened, but clearly something was wrong with the coaching setup.

This year, we've missed our injured players in the forward line, but the backline has improved still further with NWM coming good and with the addition of Stocker. The midfield is also looking a little better (at least it was before Steele got injured): Windhager continues to improve, Hill and, in particular, Wood have lifted, Marshall is relishing the role of sole ruckman, and Byrnes has played two good games out of three.

The forward line is clearly weak without King and Membrey, but there are some good things happening there too: Owens has continued to improve as we all expected him to do, and Higgins has clearly done a lot of work in the pre-season on his set shots. Although he had a quiet opening game, Butler has also looked to have regained some of his old confidence in his last two games. And, although we'd rather see King and Membrey back, Caminiti and Phillipou have performed creditiably as fill-ins.

So, yes, the change of coaching personnel has helped a lot this year. But our list - even with all of our injuries - ain't half bad: Wilkie, Wood, Hill, Sinclair, Steele, Marshall and Crouch should all be considered A-grade players at the moment, and, on current form, Battle, NWM, Ross, Owens, Windhager and Higgins aren't a huge way off.

It's amazing how much better a playing list looks after a few good wins.

So now the list isn’t bad at all ….like you and others had us believe? False dawns ?
Wish this site would make up its mind…
I’m that case we all expected to be 3-0 top ladder into Rd 4
Good-o

[Rubyjo]

The sum of all parts is a well oiled machine

[Scollop]

not me

i agree with Mart ... injuries will do us in
(over the long run + kids tiring)

Jump on the goodship lollipop asiu. Enjoy the ride

Let’s organise our finals tickets

In Lenny I trust Love the work of Boris...Ross isn't doing too bad a job either

I think that competition for spots later in the year means every player at St Kilda is hungry to perform and that should sustain the current level of work rate (obviously the new coaching team demand that!)

The energy and enthusiasm throughout the playing group cannot be under estimated.

I think there's a level of trust between players and the buy-in is real. It's tangible with wins on the board.

I think one team will make it with only 11 wins. I think we are a realistic chance to make the top 8 with a better percentage than the teams around us fighting for that last spot

Doesn't mean we will be good enough to win a final, but I still think we are capable of making the top 8 this year

We've all seen in previous years that young players tend to drop off in form.

We will have some of our best players coming back into the team and ready to replace any one who is injured or needs a spell.

The guys who have helped us win games will be rested/managed and waiting in the wings to take the spot of an 'established' or more experienced player if they don't perform

Winning these early games of football will generate momentum and also perhaps a level of 'fomo' that was missing in the last couple of years

[meher baba]

So now the list isn’t bad at all ….like you and others had us believe? False dawns ?
Wish this site would make up its mind…
I’m that case we all expected to be 3-0 top ladder into Rd 4
Good-o

I often posted last year that I thought the list wasn't half bad: 5-8 and potentially top 4 list if all went ok. And we looked like that halfway through the season until everything fell apart. I supported Ratten up to that point, and then became concerned that the list appeared to have lost all confidence. I don't buy the idea that they weren't trying, or that Ratten wasn't being tough enough with those who weren't putting in a sufficient effort. I think his main problem was that for some reason the players had lost confidence in themselves and consequently had begun to lose confidence in him.

Lyon has given them back their self-belief, and has also got them playing again in a broadly similar way to how they played when they were going well under Ratten in 2020 (and even at times under Richo): crowding the opposition when they had the ball to get a turrnover and then going hell-for-leather on the rebound. It been a long time since our team was above average at passing the ball by foot, so it's a style that suits us really well. Lyon has added a few personal tweaks to that approach, and has shown himself once again to be a shrewd judge of who to select in what position, but he has not come along with some genius-level new game plan that has revolutionised the way we play. As BM has been pointing out, coaches can't really do that, and certainly not in the course of a pre-season plus 3 games. (I think it is arguable that Clarkson at Hawthorn and Lyon at the Saints in 2007-11 did actually institute major changes to how their teams played, but it's not something that has happened very often.)

So, in short, I think what we are seeing at the moment is largely a reflection of the inherent qualities of the list, particularly its defensive and counter-attacking capabilities. Lyon and his assistants are like high-quality chefs, bringing out the qualities of the natural ingredients at their disposal. That's the most that you can expect from coaches.

[flack]

Their finally using Brad Hill as the racing car he is, instead of the four wheel drive that Ratts used him as. He's loving it.

[B.M]

Hill wasn’t fit (in fact fat!) under Ratten

He has always been an elite runner, until he got to StK on 900k

Let himself go, lost his 1 wood and could only play HB

He is a fit again and back on the wing