For those at the game…

[CQ SAINT]

When Freo woke up to it, we mannaed up and took the press to Collingwood 2010 levels, without the neat disposal, which didn't really matter because numerous times we initiated a race into open forward space and maintained our structure.
We played down the wings to draw the forwards and defence onto one side.
Our opposite side moved back and across, leaving the Freo defence with room to switch away from their own runners back into ours.

When the skills improve and Max comes back, we are going to be able to kick big scores.

[Vortex]

Here’s a hint

The three Freo key defenders took 50 odd marks between them and were the teams leading possession winners

Most of those marks were just chipping it around in defence in a fruitless attempt to find a way through the Great Wall of Ross.

Shouldn’t really count as marks.

Caminiti, a debutant, showed promise I thought. Seems a good competitor. Cordy did his role.

You don’t expect either to be Max King. All we’re really asking of them at this point is that they add structure, compete and bring the ball to ground if they can’t mark. Any goals they kick are a bonus.

Exactly, was also attending ruck contests at different ends of the ground, clearly wasn't going to beat Darcy and Jackson but just had to compete.

Dished off a beautiful pass to Gresh for a goal and kicked a goal of his own, so that's 2 goals from a total of 10 for the team.

Drew multiple defenders to a contest and bought the ball to ground

He also took the ball out of Brennan's hands, found space and dished one to Wood to take the lead in the last.

So that's 3 goals he's help go onto the scoreboard out of 7.

Watching the replay he also looked like he was directing the younger players so I'm guessing you want his type of experience in the forward line.

He also looked like he covered the ground well which surprised me considering the training watchers frequently commented on his fitness...which is where I suspect a lot of this surprising bias might have come from. Who knows though he could still be fairly unfit but doubt he will survive in Lyons side if he is.

Sorry I thought Caminiti was the topic, Cordy was decoy target.

It appears quick movement forward and a kick to a 50/50 contest was a catalyst to set up press defence and hold that position, as Freo spread through defence and rebounded into all our players that didn't follow them in.

It was classic Lyon.

Ahh ok, yeah I'm only up to the end of the 3rd quarter of watching the replay, the beer was kicking in by then.

[shmic_s]

Also provided a smart shepherd on the goal line to help through an early goal.

[Sainter_Dad]

Also provided a smart shepherd on the goal line to help through an early goal.

Mitch's first - just saw it on the replay - that was going to be touched - no doubt about it - Cordy 'attempted' to mark it and knocked the Freo player off his place.

[saynta]

Cordy earned his spot, despite low possession numbers and yes he did shepherd Owens kick for a goal.

[maverick]

Freo defensive possessions had little to do with Cordys game impact. They kicked it to themselves.
Freo’s failure to move the ball and score was probably a more relevant observation.

[CQ SAINT]

Cordy is clever, he is there for Caminiti and Phillipou to run around. He will occupy a good player and keep them honest, when pack situations arise.
I reckon Caminiti and Phillipou have been given license to fly into packs and Cordy is experienced in positioning himself in those positions, albeit, as a defender.
He didn't have a huge impact on the game directly, but you can see why he is there and why we drafted him. He has good tactical I.P. and experience executing it. The kids will buy in and make it real, they are clearly good enough given the opportunity and look like they have the will to put ego aside and be part of something bigger.

Teams are going to stay at home and wait for us and this is better than Max King and the 2 on one bomb, with Membrey at full back.

[skeptic]

Evidently from the feedback on this thread, Cordy has done a bit more then his stats suggest. I worry however that there is something of a winners bias here.

We saw this kind of thing with Kent a bit… 6-8 touches, a clutch goal in a close win and winners were grinners… but when games are lost or shots are missed suddenly that output is not looking so crash hot. Personally, I preferred both Caminiti and Phillipou on performance as they just got to a lot more contests and competed more in addition to doing the role thing.

Personally, shortly of specifically doing a lock down role or under the guise of developing, I think you need to bring more to the table then positioning and defensive/pressure efforts. Our club and RL IMO have made the mistake of overvaluing the type of player whose contribution is measured by immeasurables. Assuming Cordy stays in the team, at the very least I’d like to see him get to a lot more contests then he did.

[Vortex]

Evidently from the feedback on this thread, Cordy has done a bit more then his stats suggest. I worry however that there is something of a winners bias here.

We saw this kind of thing with Kent a bit… 6-8 touches, a clutch goal in a close win and winners were grinners… but when games are lost or shots are missed suddenly that output is not looking so crash hot. Personally, I preferred both Caminiti and Phillipou on performance as they just got to a lot more contests and competed more in addition to doing the role thing.

Personally, shortly of specifically doing a lock down role or under the guise of developing, I think you need to bring more to the table then positioning and defensive/pressure efforts. Our club and RL IMO have made the mistake of overvaluing the type of player whose contribution is measured by immeasurables. Assuming Cordy stays in the team, at the very least I’d like to see him get to a lot more contests then he did.

Nup.

The reason Kent got games when he shouldn't is the same reason Cordy, or any other player for thay matter, will get games, becsue of poor list quality and depth.

Arguing Cordy should be replaced with Sharman isn't deeply rooted in the reality of where Sharman is at because Sharman is way of AFL pace.

As one example Cordy is at least able to offer some versatility with the type of contests he can compete in like a ruck contest or compete with a strong defender (or two) and bring the ball to ground.

Sharman can't do either of those things because be gets rag dolled just as one example of his limitations and liability.

When the cupboard is bare it is bare.

[Yorkeys]

Also provided a smart shepherd on the goal line to help through an early goal.

Can kick both feet and is a long kick. Great tackle in last quarter and conversion. Premiership experience and a big man in an relatively not big side. As mentioned did some very useful and clever team things. Bet Rowan appreciates his presence.

You think Bulldogs wouldn't prefer ZC over Bruce?

[Sainter_Dad]

You think Bulldogs wouldn't prefer ZC over Bruce?

As a forward they would prefer a witches hat as they are playing him in the back line if I am not mistaken

[Vortex]

You think Bulldogs wouldn't prefer ZC over Bruce?

As a forward they would prefer a witches hat as they are playing him in the back line if I am not mistaken

Lobb is out this week so it won't surprise if Bruce spends time in the forward line to maintain this tall structure they have been training all week, that's the beauty of Bruce, he's versatile.

[Yorkeys]

You think Bulldogs wouldn't prefer ZC over Bruce?

As a forward they would prefer a witches hat as they are playing him in the back line if I am not mistaken

Yes. I think he kept himself scoreless.

[skeptic]

Evidently from the feedback on this thread, Cordy has done a bit more then his stats suggest. I worry however that there is something of a winners bias here.

We saw this kind of thing with Kent a bit… 6-8 touches, a clutch goal in a close win and winners were grinners… but when games are lost or shots are missed suddenly that output is not looking so crash hot. Personally, I preferred both Caminiti and Phillipou on performance as they just got to a lot more contests and competed more in addition to doing the role thing.

Personally, shortly of specifically doing a lock down role or under the guise of developing, I think you need to bring more to the table then positioning and defensive/pressure efforts. Our club and RL IMO have made the mistake of overvaluing the type of player whose contribution is measured by immeasurables. Assuming Cordy stays in the team, at the very least I’d like to see him get to a lot more contests then he did.

Nup.

The reason Kent got games when he shouldn't is the same reason Cordy, or any other player for thay matter, will get games, becsue of poor list quality and depth.

Arguing Cordy should be replaced with Sharman isn't deeply rooted in the reality of where Sharman is at because Sharman is way of AFL pace.

As one example Cordy is at least able to offer some versatility with the type of contests he can compete in like a ruck contest or compete with a strong defender (or two) and bring the ball to ground.

Sharman can't do either of those things because be gets rag dolled just as one example of his limitations and liability.

When the cupboard is bare it is bare.

I respectfully disagree.

With the exception of his final game, Kent was largely picked on (perceived) merit. Played in the stronger Saints sides of his era including our finals team in 2020 and played ahead of guys like Lonie, Parker, Hind and pbly others at various points. For whatever criticism one may have of Kent, he was clearly internally rated across 2 coaches and well liked at the club so good on him in that sense.

The rest of what I posted was generally broader commentary on role players and wasn’t part of an argument to bring Sharman back in. You’re rather obsessive on this point… not everything I post on this subject is shadows in the dark trying to justify a Coops selection instead.
In this instance… this was a genuine question as there’s only so much you can see on TV and others had a different take to my initial thoughts which I was interested in. Happy to concede that people will know more or less on different points.

I’ve addressed your point about Cordy bringing the ball to ground with the observation that it seemed to me that Calmaniti for example got to more contests and did that more whereas Cordy was a lot more unsighted by me.

As ppl have pointed out in this thread… he’s obviously done more than I noticed and I’m happy to accept that but let’s not frequently turn this back into something it’s not.

[CQ SAINT]

The Bulldogs have just been pantsed by Melbourne in similar fashion to our practice match. Whatever they were going with, wasn't very impressive.

Now they are facing having no Lobb, no Jones and only Naughton up forward with a couple of tall, skinny kids.

Should be an interesting game.

[Yorkeys]

Evidently from the feedback on this thread, Cordy has done a bit more then his stats suggest. I worry however that there is something of a winners bias here.

We saw this kind of thing with Kent a bit… 6-8 touches, a clutch goal in a close win and winners were grinners… but when games are lost or shots are missed suddenly that output is not looking so crash hot. Personally, I preferred both Caminiti and Phillipou on performance as they just got to a lot more contests and competed more in addition to doing the role thing.

Personally, shortly of specifically doing a lock down role or under the guise of developing, I think you need to bring more to the table then positioning and defensive/pressure efforts. Our club and RL IMO have made the mistake of overvaluing the type of player whose contribution is measured by immeasurables. Assuming Cordy stays in the team, at the very least I’d like to see him get to a lot more contests then he did.

Nup.

The reason Kent got games when he shouldn't is the same reason Cordy, or any other player for thay matter, will get games, becsue of poor list quality and depth.

Arguing Cordy should be replaced with Sharman isn't deeply rooted in the reality of where Sharman is at because Sharman is way of AFL pace.

As one example Cordy is at least able to offer some versatility with the type of contests he can compete in like a ruck contest or compete with a strong defender (or two) and bring the ball to ground.

Sharman can't do either of those things because be gets rag dolled just as one example of his limitations and liability.

When the cupboard is bare it is bare.

I respectfully disagree.

With the exception of his final game, Kent was largely picked on (perceived) merit. Played in the stronger Saints sides of his era including our finals team in 2020 and played ahead of guys like Lonie, Parker, Hind and pbly others at various points. For whatever criticism one may have of Kent, he was clearly internally rated across 2 coaches and well liked at the club so good on him in that sense.

The rest of what I posted was generally broader commentary on role players and wasn’t part of an argument to bring Sharman back in. You’re rather obsessive on this point… not everything I post on this subject is shadows in the dark trying to justify a Coops selection instead.
In this instance… this was a genuine question as there’s only so much you can see on TV and others had a different take to my initial thoughts which I was interested in. Happy to concede that people will know more or less on different points.

I’ve addressed your point about Cordy bringing the ball to ground with the observation that it seemed to me that Calmaniti for example got to more contests and did that more whereas Cordy was a lot more unsighted by me.

As ppl have pointed out in this thread… he’s obviously done more than I noticed and I’m happy to accept that but let’s not frequently turn this back into something it’s not.

Sharman would have kept Cox honest. Cox would not have got 20 largely uncontested marks and bog rating.
Selection mistake putting Butler in ahead of Cooper for that game.
Shows list has good depth though, seletors didn't take advantage.

[shanegrambeau]

The Bulldogs have just been pantsed by Melbourne in similar fashion to our practice match. Whatever they were going with, wasn't very impressive.

Now they are facing having no Lobb, no Jones and only Naughton up forward with a couple of tall, skinny kids.

Should be an interesting game.

Howdaya reckon St Kilda would have fared v Melbourne instead of Fremantle?

Every game is its own game for sure, but we mightn’t have done much better than Footscrsy.
I suspect potentially worse.

Butler kicked a decent amount of goals last year and he assisted nicely in certain passages on Sunday. Tap here, tap there, shepherd and so on.

But the opportunity cost ? That’s the question. I think we know Higgo can be good or not and perhaps Butts was a bit of insurance?

I can’t help feeling Sharman should have played but he obviously isn’t doing something right at base camp. I wondered if Cordy was better too. But again, insurance? Cordy could help Marshall perhaps?

With Webster down, perhaps he could have subbed in as a back man.

I’m asking myself whether Sharman lacks ‘intensity’ or ‘manic energy’. Maybe he’s too cool for his own shoes. I’ve seen certain foreman in industry suspect that a young tradie lacks ‘effort’ just based on their ‘cool’ way of going about it.

That, or he’s been on the Coopers.

[Vortex]

played ahead of guys like Lonie, Parker, Hind and pbly others at various points.

All three examples were delisted so sought of suggests my point has some merit about Kent getting a game because there was no one kicking him out for his position/role by two coaches.

wasn’t part of an argument to bring Sharman back in.

Didn't you say in the game day thread (or somewhere else around game day) that you thought Sharman should have played ahead of Cordy?

You’re rather obsessive on this point… not everything I post on this subject is shadows in the dark trying to justify a Coops selection instead.

As obsessed as you have been, and continue to be about Kent?, you bring his name up a fair bit, in any case it doesn't bother me because I now as take the view these days that if someone is obsessive about a particular point or argument, then it should be acceptable to be as obsessive about the counter argument. I'm happy for people to counter my view on Sharman but not many forthcoming that seem to be valid which is backed up by the fact he now has two coaches who think he needs more time at Sandy. I actually hope he makes it, and if not him then Carminati, we desperately need a second/third tall to come through.

seemed to me that Calmaniti for example got to more contests and did that more whereas Cordy was a lot more unsighted by me.

I think they were playing different roles, specifically Caminiti's role would have very much been completely different by virtue of the fact it was his first game so he would have been prepped on that basis whereas Cordy would have possibly been given the elder statesman/leadership role in that area of the ground. It looked like our game plan was to conceded the aerial contest in F50 but make sure the talls got back quickly to about a kick behind the ball to provide aerial presence in that area of the ground to win the ball back and get another F50 entry. The high stats for marks by Freo defenders inside our F50 seems to suggest that was the plan, i.e. let them have as many marks as the like in F50 but don't let it get past the middle of the ground. We won so I'm guessing both players would have got a pat on the back for playing their role and in Caminiti's case he would have just been happy to get through without embarrassing himself and he did that nicely.

[Vortex]

Sharman would have kept Cox honest.

Doubt it very much.

Sharman struggled at Sandy last year and got games of AFL because we were desperately short of players, Caminiti's been in the place 3 weeks and got a game ahead of him so it looks like another coach feels he needs more time at Sandy. Having said that we are desperately short of players again, mores o than last years so who knows he might get a game.

[Vortex]

The Bulldogs have just been pantsed by Melbourne in similar fashion to our practice match. Whatever they were going with, wasn't very impressive.

Now they are facing having no Lobb, no Jones and only Naughton up forward with a couple of tall, skinny kids.

Should be an interesting game.

those two out is very helpful, it's highly doubtful they will change their structure and game plan after one week so I'm expecting Bruce to swing from backline to forward line, not sure who comes in for the other two though.

[CQ SAINT]

The Bulldogs have just been pantsed by Melbourne in similar fashion to our practice match. Whatever they were going with, wasn't very impressive.

Now they are facing having no Lobb, no Jones and only Naughton up forward with a couple of tall, skinny kids.

Should be an interesting game.

those two out is very helpful, it's highly doubtful they will change their structure and game plan after one week so I'm expecting Bruce to swing from backline to forward line, not sure who comes in for the other two though.

I was just saying in another thread that I believe Marshall and English almost nullify eachother. I'd just push Marshall forward at all costs and let Cordy follow English forward.

If we concede ground to half back and our mids all spend the majority of their time attacking from defence, we will out run the dogs and control half the ground by drawing their defence out into our running traffic and/or going over the top to 2 on 2 structures, forcing turnovers or locking the ball in our half.

Steele to lock down on Bontempelli and Crouch goes head to head with Liberatore and a bit more ground time for Clark to get creative.

I'm just glad there is real interest in the game for me, again.