Why Saints Must Finish Bottom 4 2023

[realdeal]

Doesn't matter how many draft picks you if you keep drafting MOR players and/or not develop players properly..

[HardSaint]

The trick is, and always has been, to tank, but not appear as though you're tanking
If the powers that be, early on, deem we're lacking and are facing an up hill battle with no break outs on the list we have
then, at some point, we can fairly say that player a, b, c, d, despite all the promise of 5+ years on the list, some bad luck, but a strong pre season etc, just arent stepping up and wont get there
I wont name names, but there are 5-6 who oughta s*** or get off the potty

then it's play the kids and "develop" with the aim of scooping the cream - but just dont make it too damned obvious
I reckon Ross is solid and confident enough to pull it off in 2023... if we have to

we did it from 2001-2003 and did it well, building a team that was contending for almost a decade

It all gets down to the blokes we have on our list now - are they up for it?
Or do we have to get sneaky?

I have no issue with being sneaky, just let it look organic

[samoht]

Doesn't matter how many draft picks you if you keep drafting MOR players and/or not develop players properly..

MOR = mediocre or rubbish???

[Sainter_Dad]

Doesn't matter how many draft picks you if you keep drafting MOR players and/or not develop players properly..

MOR = mediocre or rubbish???

Middle of the Road

[samuraisaint]

The Suns last night illustrates perfectly why high draft picks doesn't always equal a decent team. Multiple high draft picks for over ten years and still useless.

[perfectionist]

The Suns last night illustrates perfectly why high draft picks doesn't always equal a decent team. Multiple high draft picks for over ten years and still useless.

And you don't need to finish last to get high draft picks. Port got No 1 pick from North after just one year at the club. How does that happen? Jason Horne-Francis reminds me of Ian Stewart, someone who can mark, run and kick 50 metres either foot. He'll win BMs, perhaps this year. He has 3 votes already.

[realdeal]

The Suns last night illustrates perfectly why high draft picks doesn't always equal a decent team. Multiple high draft picks for over ten years and still useless.

And you don't need to finish last to get high draft picks. Port got No 1 pick from North after just one year at the club. How does that happen? Jason Horne-Francis reminds me of Ian Stewart, someone who can mark, run and kick 50 metres either foot. He'll win BMs, perhaps this year. He has 3 votes already.

Yet Ben King is still at Suns;
despite his twin brother playing with us,
despite playing interstate whilst his twin brother is back home in Victoria,
despite playing for an unsuccessful team and
despite the fact he was a huge Saints supporter.

You dont think Geelong, Collingwood etc would've made it happen by now!?

(This is just an example as we have been vocal about making a play at him)

[CQ SAINT]

The Suns last night illustrates perfectly why high draft picks doesn't always equal a decent team. Multiple high draft picks for over ten years and still useless.

And you don't need to finish last to get high draft picks. Port got No 1 pick from North after just one year at the club. How does that happen? Jason Horne-Francis reminds me of Ian Stewart, someone who can mark, run and kick 50 metres either foot. He'll win BMs, perhaps this year. He has 3 votes already.

No you don't need to finish last.
Being the most popular and succesful team in SA history certainly helps, it's the opposite when you are the least successful team in the state, without the draft or money, you are farked.

[CQ SAINT]

Nonsense.

A bottom 4 finish would be a terrible thing for the club in so many ways.

This lose to win idea is akin to trickle down economics.

Yes, loitering between 6 and 16 for a decade has been great for Richo and Ratten's retirement fund.
Poor Brett, he never really stood a chance.
You can bet your balls Ross Lyon wants a top 4 pick next year and told the club directly after being approached that we will be resetting and not giving Degoey or anyone else $5m for 5 years, while other clubs circle, Membrey, Phillipou and Wanganeen-Milera. We might as well put Mackenzie, Billings, Coffield and Jones on ice for 2023 and go to the draft.
We will be in good company, Hawthorn, Richmond and West Coast will be there with us and Essendon will take a second half dive too.

Mr CQ,

I don’t know whether you are being facetious in order to make a point, an ironic sleight-of-word(s)? , maybe? To be honest, I can’t figure out where you sit on this .. But taking it face value.

I would counter you in several points.

1) loitering is not a fair word..we struggled and hung in for dear life, we made desperate moves, on the field and in recruiting. Our fixture was absolutely crap. And there may have been indifference and burn out at times, coupled with the challenge of new clubs getting priorities and big clubs using their clout. Whatever the challenges, we didn’t loiter intentionally

2) Brett never stood a chance, yep, I’d agree, but that doesn’t figure in this discussion - at least I can’t see how

3) Ross wants a first rounder. Sure but they all do. It’s try Ross has prestige again now (incredibly) and would make us more attractive. Whilst we may get some nice players, if we are in the crapper, they’ll leave.

4) MacKenzie and Billings and even Coffield and Paton’s geese may have been cooked. No value in a trade. (Maybe the latter two, but barely second rounders)


I contend, it is better to aim for 4 or 5 be mid ladder and try to ride our luck, rather than go to the bottom and try to reach the sun.

In the context of footy tiday

Enjoy the games , stay in the hunt, be a factor, be relevant, be (moderately) successful and leave the perennial wooden spoon tag behind.

Enough is enough (Sunny Ernie)

In the words of our esteemed President, 'we may have to go backwards, to go forward. I f***ed up, we have no game plan and a best 22 witth more holes than a sieve.

I've been here since 2009, enjoy the games? stay in the hunt? be a factor? be relevant? be moderately successful? (are you referring to Covid 19), perennial wooden spooner?

I'm all for aiming for 4 or 5, when was the last time we got their, who took us there and what did we do in his first year back then?

Kanpai.

[asiu]

I have no issue with being sneaky, just let it look organic

nice line , Banjo


there's big truth in that sentence

[Teflon]

playing youth instead of second rate injured players is not tanking it's development

Spot on mate
Hawks are in development mode - tanking? Don’t care what you call it ….a few good draft drinks and watch them rise past us while we still try and pretend our recent “top up” attempts will get us to top 4….utter rubbish
Lyon has already come out and said it - we need more KP talent …we lack it ….we lack outside run/quality..
The last time St Kilda challenged was off the back of the draft ….if this year is so good… why would you not?
Anyway we can dream we’ll be a “destination club” but unless you can show potential players you have talent with a genuine future chance to go deep in finals you can forget it
I reckon 2x top 10 picks this year or a 1st and early 2nd ….sets us up nicely ….

What's interesting about our latest strategy to build a list via the draft is, is with the exception of 2019 when we bought in the fab five, ironically we have been trying to build a list via the draft since 2012.

It's also interesting the hysteria around Phillipou and the unnerving belief he is going to be the second coming of Bontepelli, which I can't remember that type of hysteria about any other of our high picks such as Clark and Coff which were higher than the Pou, and Clark and Coff have been stuttering and our other high picks in Billings who has been anything but what you would expect from a number 3. It could well be hysteria attached to the hype of the messiah returning, time will tell.

I suppose what I'm saying is, how do we know this latest strategy we have been sold is going to result in a flag when really all it is, is a very similar strategy to the one we've been executing for the best part of the last decade, but just wrapped up and marketed in a different way.

That’s actually factually incorrect though
Under Richo and Ratten (especially last few drafts) we either didn’t do much (cause we trade picks out) to bring in
Hill, Ryder, Howard, Jones, Crouch, Higgins etc
Some of those were good but at what cost??
Lyon said it this week - the club in recent times has not had a draft strategy??? Hence our kid’s cupboard isn’t chic full talent - let’s be honest we HOPE Owens/Windhager are A grade but that’s no guarantee
On guarantees- show me a strategy that is full proof?
You’re looking for certainty where there is none
We could go draft strategy and **** up all our picks??
I know right now we aren’t a destination club (see Bower from GC tell us no thanks…)
I also know the last time we genuinely challenged was off the back of a really talented core group of kids via the draft ????
I also know when I see Cheezal pick up 34 touches and 600+ meters gained ON DEBUT (yes yes against Wet Toast but it was his first bloody afl game??) that this is the level of A Grade talent we need !
We got it last time via Roo, BJ, Dal etc
We need it again and drafting well and as high as we can is our only choice

[Teflon]

The Suns last night illustrates perfectly why high draft picks doesn't always equal a decent team. Multiple high draft picks for over ten years and still useless.

Different challenges though
GWS have played in GFs
It depends what you draft when and how you bring a core through together
I’m confident IF Lyon (SOS …worries me..) can pick well and get a strong core together we’ll challenge for a good period…
We just don’t have that core A grade cream
Im praying Phillipou King NWM Owens are the start ….and that Coffield and Clark can step up but we need more
Probably another strong tall defender and another to help King ….would love his bro ….forward line set then ..

[Teflon]

The Suns last night illustrates perfectly why high draft picks doesn't always equal a decent team. Multiple high draft picks for over ten years and still useless.

And you don't need to finish last to get high draft picks. Port got No 1 pick from North after just one year at the club. How does that happen? Jason Horne-Francis reminds me of Ian Stewart, someone who can mark, run and kick 50 metres either foot. He'll win BMs, perhaps this year. He has 3 votes already.

And they may add NWM to be add to that next year..gotta keep this kid …skills are what we need

[Teflon]

The Suns last night illustrates perfectly why high draft picks doesn't always equal a decent team. Multiple high draft picks for over ten years and still useless.

And you don't need to finish last to get high draft picks. Port got No 1 pick from North after just one year at the club. How does that happen? Jason Horne-Francis reminds me of Ian Stewart, someone who can mark, run and kick 50 metres either foot. He'll win BMs, perhaps this year. He has 3 votes already.

Yet Ben King is still at Suns;
despite his twin brother playing with us,
despite playing interstate whilst his twin brother is back home in Victoria,
despite playing for an unsuccessful team and
despite the fact he was a huge Saints supporter.

You dont think Geelong, Collingwood etc would've made it happen by now!?

(This is just an example as we have been vocal about making a play at him)

Must go hard

[Teflon]

The trick is, and always has been, to tank, but not appear as though you're tanking
If the powers that be, early on, deem we're lacking and are facing an up hill battle with no break outs on the list we have
then, at some point, we can fairly say that player a, b, c, d, despite all the promise of 5+ years on the list, some bad luck, but a strong pre season etc, just arent stepping up and wont get there
I wont name names, but there are 5-6 who oughta s*** or get off the potty

then it's play the kids and "develop" with the aim of scooping the cream - but just dont make it too damned obvious
I reckon Ross is solid and confident enough to pull it off in 2023... if we have to

we did it from 2001-2003 and did it well, building a team that was contending for almost a decade

It all gets down to the blokes we have on our list now - are they up for it?
Or do we have to get sneaky?

I have no issue with being sneaky, just let it look organic

Yep this it
“Organically sneaky”
Clubs new members slogan next year ..
Like it

[samuraisaint]

The Suns last night illustrates perfectly why high draft picks doesn't always equal a decent team. Multiple high draft picks for over ten years and still useless.

Different challenges though
GWS have played in GFs
It depends what you draft when and how you bring a core through together
I’m confident IF Lyon (SOS …worries me..) can pick well and get a strong core together we’ll challenge for a good period…
We just don’t have that core A grade cream
Im praying Phillipou King NWM Owens are the start ….and that Coffield and Clark can step up but we need more
Probably another strong tall defender and another to help King ….would love his bro ….forward line set then ..

I am not trying to be disingenuous here, but GWS played in only one Grand Final and lost by 90 points. Not exactly a glowing endorsement. At least in our three grand finals between 97-2010 we were in them up to our necks. Unlucky not to have won two of them. Can't say that about GWS' single appearance in a GF.
I predict they will fall off the cliff this year and finish bottom 6.
The rest of your response I'll drink to.

[Sainter_Dad]

The rest of your response I'll drink to.

Not casting aspersions or anything Samurai - but from the tone of some of your post - you will drink to paint drying - lol - are you still in the land of the 1 litre beer cans in a vending machine?

[Vortex]

cause we traded picks out to bring in

Hill, Ryder, Howard, Jones, Crouch, Higgins etc

Some of those were good but at what cost??

Are Hill, Howard, Crouch and Higgins part of the future in your mind?

Interestingly Ross has mentioned this week our salary cap is the same as Geelong's but they won a flag.

So that is the cost in one sense.

We will know at season's end how Hill, Howard, Crouch and Higgins are valued by Lyon.

[samuraisaint]

The rest of your response I'll drink to.

Not casting aspersions or anything Samurai - but from the tone of some of your post - you will drink to paint drying - lol - are you still in the land of the 1 litre beer cans in a vending machine?

Nope - near Moorabbin again

[asiu]

... leave the perennial wooden spoon tag behind.


like our Premierships , the 'spoon' is also imaginary

we'll be in double figures at the end of this season
with much better things to 'imaginate' about





b)

the last one was after the dwarf charring incident
with a new coach 'n the same protagonists on the list
... who then promptly took their eye off the imaginary spoon
and forgot to finish 15th 16th or 17th
THEN got thumped for their sins by choosing paddy

Morphic resonance in action

just like 'holding' on to an OLD story about mythical childrens torture n discipline devices

c)

the time to 'let go' WAS in 2014

(there's that pesky morphic resonance again)

gawd dang

it'll be 40 years before there's a sniff of another
mothers little helper

[CQ SAINT]

cause we traded picks out to bring in

Hill, Ryder, Howard, Jones, Crouch, Higgins etc

Some of those were good but at what cost??

Are Hill, Howard, Crouch and Higgins part of the future in your mind?

Interestingly Ross has mentioned this week our salary cap is the same as Geelong's but they won a flag.

So that is the cost in one sense.

We will know at season's end how Hill, Howard, Crouch and Higgins are valued by Lyon.

Our salary cap is the same as everyone else's and you have to spend 95% of it.
17 teams didn't win a flag.

[asiu]

... leave the perennial wooden spoon tag behind.

'n coz this issue sh1ts me so much
about st kilda supporters

it's as simple as tearing around corners on motorbikes

look where ya wanna go
not where ya don't wanna go

coz if you do
thats where u'll go

life lesson 101 i would have thought

[shanegrambeau]

cause we traded picks out to bring in

Hill, Ryder, Howard, Jones, Crouch, Higgins etc

Some of those were good but at what cost??

Are Hill, Howard, Crouch and Higgins part of the future in your mind?

Interestingly Ross has mentioned this week our salary cap is the same as Geelong's but they won a flag.

So that is the cost in one sense.

We will know at season's end how Hill, Howard, Crouch and Higgins are valued by Lyon.

Our salary cap is the same as everyone else's and you have to spend 95% of it.
17 teams didn't win a flag.

On the AFL Currency exchange

Hawthorn $1.00 AU = Geelong $1.55 AU - St Kilda 0.66 cents AU

Cap is same. Purchasing power of dollar in cap not same..

Fringe benefits at Geelong include (a,b,c,d) + prestige, plus continued success.

But with the new team…our value is going up…


The only way is UP!!!

As asiu says, look where you wanna go…!!

[Vortex]

cause we traded picks out to bring in

Hill, Ryder, Howard, Jones, Crouch, Higgins etc

Some of those were good but at what cost??

Are Hill, Howard, Crouch and Higgins part of the future in your mind?

Interestingly Ross has mentioned this week our salary cap is the same as Geelong's but they won a flag.

So that is the cost in one sense.

We will know at season's end how Hill, Howard, Crouch and Higgins are valued by Lyon.

Our salary cap is the same as everyone else's and you have to spend 95% of it.
17 teams didn't win a flag.

Technically correct but i.a.w. the rules however I think the inference is the team that won the flag spends their cash a whole lot more wisely meaning they have a much greater spread and depth of talent, skill and experience, us not so much, meaning we have pumped much of our cap into too few with said talent, skill and experience.

[CQ SAINT]

cause we traded picks out to bring in

Hill, Ryder, Howard, Jones, Crouch, Higgins etc

Some of those were good but at what cost??

Are Hill, Howard, Crouch and Higgins part of the future in your mind?

Interestingly Ross has mentioned this week our salary cap is the same as Geelong's but they won a flag.

So that is the cost in one sense.

We will know at season's end how Hill, Howard, Crouch and Higgins are valued by Lyon.

Our salary cap is the same as everyone else's and you have to spend 95% of it.
17 teams didn't win a flag.

Technically correct but i.a.w. the rules however I think the inference is the team that won the flag spends their cash a whole lot more wisely meaning they have a much greater spread and depth of talent, skill and experience, us not so much, meaning we have pumped much of our cap into too few with said talent, skill and experience.

Pffft. This is the part where the coach looks at the journalist and says, Is that what you think I was saying? I'm not privy to what Geelong pays their players, I can only assume its all approved in the salary cap.