TRAINING REPORTS - JAN to MAR

[Vortex]

Senior AFL coaches don’t teach people how to kick a footy

It’s not Auskick or u12s

So where do AFL players with sub standard skills go to learn skills?

Tackling school and hand pass school. See Jack Daniels and Seb Ross. But a team can only carry a few of these types.

I think it is fairly evident that Ratten lost his job in big part due to the high amount of turnovers in 2022 that cost us game after game and a finals spot. Some of the games we won only because the oppo was turning it over just as bad or worse.

I suspect that it is a hard thing for a coach to address as I imagine good kicking is a lot about confidence. Putting a harsh focus on kicking could make things worse for nervous nellies.

But it certainly was agonising to watch unforced turnover after turnover in 2022 that lost us games. Turnovers convert to opposition goals very quickly in this era of football.

Hopefully RTB will serve a special sauce that will see everyone sure and firing. Winning by large margins would also help instill confidence. Chicken/Egg

How can it be confidence in January, and if the training reports are accurate, there is a lot to be concerned about with the skill level...still.

[Moods]

My opinion is that players skill level looks immeasurably better if they are released into space and have time to deliver the ball. Also if a well structured forward line where the forwards can get separation on their opponents. Much easier to deliver the ball to a player who has a good separation than to a player who you have to pinpoint a moving target.

[Templar]

Senior AFL coaches don’t teach people how to kick a footy

It’s not Auskick or u12s

So where do AFL players with sub standard skills go to learn skills?

Tackling school and hand pass school. See Jack Daniels and Seb Ross. But a team can only carry a few of these types.

I think it is fairly evident that Ratten lost his job in big part due to the high amount of turnovers in 2022 that cost us game after game and a finals spot. Some of the games we won only because the oppo was turning it over just as bad or worse.

I suspect that it is a hard thing for a coach to address as I imagine good kicking is a lot about confidence. Putting a harsh focus on kicking could make things worse for nervous nellies.

But it certainly was agonising to watch unforced turnover after turnover in 2022 that lost us games. Turnovers convert to opposition goals very quickly in this era of football.

Hopefully RTB will serve a special sauce that will see everyone sure and firing. Winning by large margins would also help instill confidence. Chicken/Egg

How can it be confidence in January, and if the training reports are accurate, there is a lot to be concerned about with the skill level...still.

Confidence only (big) part of the equation.

You can't beat good "natural" skills or should I say hard earned "practised" skills.

Practise also builds confidence. That is probably the key here.

A good analogy was a story I heard about a musician. Legendary clarinet player from memory.

Some guy in the audience went up to him after a show and said something like "Wow. I love your playing. I wish I could do that. Sadly I just never had the natural talent."

The clarinet player instantly went off at the fan and said something like "What do you mean natural talent! While you were out going to movies, driving around trying to pick up girls or going to the beach I was at home practising my arse off. Don't give me this natural talent bulls***" etc.

Yeah. Practise will build confidence. So there is hope.

[scallopsroe]

Senior AFL coaches don’t teach people how to kick a footy

It’s not Auskick or u12s

So where do AFL players with sub standard skills go to learn skills?

Tackling school and hand pass school. See Jack Daniels and Seb Ross. But a team can only carry a few of these types.

I think it is fairly evident that Ratten lost his job in big part due to the high amount of turnovers in 2022 that cost us game after game and a finals spot. Some of the games we won only because the oppo was turning it over just as bad or worse.

I suspect that it is a hard thing for a coach to address as I imagine good kicking is a lot about confidence. Putting a harsh focus on kicking could make things worse for nervous nellies.

But it certainly was agonising to watch unforced turnover after turnover in 2022 that lost us games. Turnovers convert to opposition goals very quickly in this era of football.

Hopefully RTB will serve a special sauce that will see everyone sure and firing. Winning by large margins would also help instill confidence. Chicken/Egg

How can it be confidence in January, and if the training reports are accurate, there is a lot to be concerned about with the skill level...still.

Confidence only (big) part of the equation.

You can't beat good "natural" skills or should I say hard earned "practised" skills.

Practise also builds confidence. That is probably the key here.

A good analogy was a story I heard about a musician. Legendary clarinet player from memory.

Some guy in the audience went up to him after a show and said something like "Wow. I love your playing. I wish I could do that. Sadly I just never had the natural talent."

The clarinet player instantly went off at the fan and said something like "What do you mean natural talent! While you were out going to movies, driving around trying to pick up girls or going to the beach I was at home practising my arse off. Don't give me this natural talent bulls***" etc.

Yeah. Practise will build confidence. So there is hope.

Practice (not training but practice) is the key, well said. Example a top professional golfer, keeps working at their game by practising.

[Impatient Sainter]

IndecIsion can be a problem, too. A better structured game plan can help with that

I particularly think Howard, Webster and Ross are those who arent clear of mind when they have the ball. They second guess themselves and it creates turnovers, either by them or the team mate they put under pressure. I was always taught the first option was the best option and it also applies at AFL level. Gresham and Jones are others who have no idea what they are going to do with it, apart from take the game on, but that is often a weapon.

When you think about last years premiers skill level, I cant think of one player in that team who cant consistently hit targets or kick goals. We have anywhere from 8-10 who turn the ball over or miss easy shots on goals they should be making. Like others I believe it needs to be corrected if we are to improve significantly.

Hopefully with the intruction of new talent and new game structures they will lessen the impacts turnovers have on the team.

[Vortex]

IndecIsion can be a problem, too. A better structured game plan can help with that

I particularly think Webster and Ross are those who arent clear of mind when they have the ball. They second guess themselves and it creates turnovers, either by them of the team mate they put under pressure. I was always taught the first option was the best option and it also applies at AFL level. Gresham and Jones are others who have no idea what they are going to do with it, apart from take the game on, but that is often a weapon.

When you think about last years premiers skill level, I cant think of one player in that team who cant consistently hit targets or kick goals. We have anywhere from 8-10 who turn the ball over or miss easy shots on goals they should be making. Like others I believe it needs to be corrected if we are to improve significantly.

Hopefully with the intruction of new talent and new game structures they will lessen the impacts turnovers have on the team.

that's why this 3 second rule has me worried, poor skills combined with the pressure of having to move the ball quickly could see us become the turnover kings, it's why it won't surprise me if Ross 3.0 with extra cuddles reverts back to Ross 1.0 and we become overly defensive once again out of necessity.

[bobmurray]

Senior AFL coaches don’t teach people how to kick a footy

It’s not Auskick or u12s

So where do AFL players with sub standard skills go to learn skills?

Isn't that why Mr Carroll gets the big bucks ?

Supposedly it is so my question is if your skills are poor across the list isn't that the first area of improvement, say well before learning game plans you are incapable of executing?

Can anyone who is going to training report if they are seeing any skills improvement sessions, specifically kicking?

No point being trained to get rid of the ball under 3 seconds if you consistently give it back to the opposition.

I've asked a similar question about when do they do their skills sessions, because, when i go to watch training, it's usually drills, groups working with line coaches, match sims and fitness.
And injury recovery sessions with trainers/physios.

[Teflon]

IndecIsion can be a problem, too. A better structured game plan can help with that

I particularly think Howard, Webster and Ross are those who arent clear of mind when they have the ball. They second guess themselves and it creates turnovers, either by them or the team mate they put under pressure. I was always taught the first option was the best option and it also applies at AFL level. Gresham and Jones are others who have no idea what they are going to do with it, apart from take the game on, but that is often a weapon.

When you think about last years premiers skill level, I cant think of one player in that team who cant consistently hit targets or kick goals. We have anywhere from 8-10 who turn the ball over or miss easy shots on goals they should be making. Like others I believe it needs to be corrected if we are to improve significantly.

Hopefully with the intruction of new talent and new game structures they will lessen the impacts turnovers have on the team.

I think Moods point is a good one
No side has 22 great kicks - u carry some for other strengths but there is a way to make it easier for players poor by foot/hand IF they have some certainty in game plan that players trust/rely on.
Clint Jones, Robert Eddy or the guy that ended up an assistant at Tigers (name escapes me) weren’t great by foot….didn’t hold us back too much…
Compare the lack of confidence in kicking and add to that complete chaos with what to fo with ball in hand to align to team game style (last year at times we just needed Benny Hill music! Comedy stuff)
RTB will work on balance of skills on list and he’ll turn some over to do it
Sensible gane structure/plan is a given
And I think we’ll go backwards this year or hold steady as we get that mix right

[Vortex]

IndecIsion can be a problem, too. A better structured game plan can help with that

I particularly think Howard, Webster and Ross are those who arent clear of mind when they have the ball. They second guess themselves and it creates turnovers, either by them or the team mate they put under pressure. I was always taught the first option was the best option and it also applies at AFL level. Gresham and Jones are others who have no idea what they are going to do with it, apart from take the game on, but that is often a weapon.

When you think about last years premiers skill level, I cant think of one player in that team who cant consistently hit targets or kick goals. We have anywhere from 8-10 who turn the ball over or miss easy shots on goals they should be making. Like others I believe it needs to be corrected if we are to improve significantly.

Hopefully with the intruction of new talent and new game structures they will lessen the impacts turnovers have on the team.

I think Moods point is a good one
No side has 22 great kicks - u carry some for other strengths but there is a way to make it easier for players poor by foot/hand IF they have some certainty in game plan that players trust/rely on.
Clint Jones, Robert Eddy or the guy that ended up an assistant at Tigers (name escapes me) weren’t great by foot….didn’t hold us back too much…
Compare the lack of confidence in kicking and add to that complete chaos with what to fo with ball in hand to align to team game style (last year at times we just needed Benny Hill music! Comedy stuff)
RTB will work on balance of skills on list and he’ll turn some over to do it
Sensible gane structure/plan is a given
And I think we’ll go backwards this year or hold steady as we get that mix right

The issue we have is we don't carry too many other strengths right at the moment, Clint Jones, Robert Eddie and McQualter, (you're welcome), were surrounded by about 17 grand final ready stars. If I was Lyon I'd be buying a copy of the Benny Hill music if we cop any more injuries, especially to key players.

[Impatient Sainter]

IndecIsion can be a problem, too. A better structured game plan can help with that

I particularly think Webster and Ross are those who arent clear of mind when they have the ball. They second guess themselves and it creates turnovers, either by them of the team mate they put under pressure. I was always taught the first option was the best option and it also applies at AFL level. Gresham and Jones are others who have no idea what they are going to do with it, apart from take the game on, but that is often a weapon.

When you think about last years premiers skill level, I cant think of one player in that team who cant consistently hit targets or kick goals. We have anywhere from 8-10 who turn the ball over or miss easy shots on goals they should be making. Like others I believe it needs to be corrected if we are to improve significantly.

Hopefully with the intruction of new talent and new game structures they will lessen the impacts turnovers have on the team.

that's why this 3 second rule has me worried, poor skills combined with the pressure of having to move the ball quickly could see us become the turnover kings, it's why it won't surprise me if Ross 3.0 with extra cuddles reverts back to Ross 1.0 and we become overly defensive once again out of necessity.

I think the benefit of the 3 seconds rule is even if we do muff a kick forward, the opposition arent going to be set up behind the ball, as they were when we were moving it slowly. It will be 1 on 1 contests which will give the forwards a chance. Everybody saw how bloody frustrating it was seeing Minx double & triple teamed last season, and how predictable we had become so hopefully we can eliminate that.

[Teflon]

IndecIsion can be a problem, too. A better structured game plan can help with that

I particularly think Howard, Webster and Ross are those who arent clear of mind when they have the ball. They second guess themselves and it creates turnovers, either by them or the team mate they put under pressure. I was always taught the first option was the best option and it also applies at AFL level. Gresham and Jones are others who have no idea what they are going to do with it, apart from take the game on, but that is often a weapon.

When you think about last years premiers skill level, I cant think of one player in that team who cant consistently hit targets or kick goals. We have anywhere from 8-10 who turn the ball over or miss easy shots on goals they should be making. Like others I believe it needs to be corrected if we are to improve significantly.

Hopefully with the intruction of new talent and new game structures they will lessen the impacts turnovers have on the team.

I think Moods point is a good one
No side has 22 great kicks - u carry some for other strengths but there is a way to make it easier for players poor by foot/hand IF they have some certainty in game plan that players trust/rely on.
Clint Jones, Robert Eddy or the guy that ended up an assistant at Tigers (name escapes me) weren’t great by foot….didn’t hold us back too much…
Compare the lack of confidence in kicking and add to that complete chaos with what to fo with ball in hand to align to team game style (last year at times we just needed Benny Hill music! Comedy stuff)
RTB will work on balance of skills on list and he’ll turn some over to do it
Sensible gane structure/plan is a given
And I think we’ll go backwards this year or hold steady as we get that mix right

The issue we have is we don't carry too many other strengths right at the moment, Clint Jones, Robert Eddie and McQualter, (you're welcome), were surrounded by about 17 grand final ready stars. If I was Lyon I'd be buying a copy of the Benny Hill music if we cop any more injuries, especially to key players.

True abd that’s why Lyon got 4 years and why I keep saying we are going to need to turn over some of the lesser skilled “stars” of Richo/Ratten era …we will need to inject mor Pou like talent it’s pretty simple …
I think at least with Lyon’s game players will know it (execution will be interesting) but none of Thi’s handballing into team mates backs as they run past oblivious to a pass coming….or stupid stuff like watching Brad Hill with an opponent on his tail ducking abd weaving past for cheap handballs…

[B.M]

Better tell Lyon (and the new list manager) that we are rebuilding

It may surprise them

[Vortex]

IndecIsion can be a problem, too. A better structured game plan can help with that

I particularly think Howard, Webster and Ross are those who arent clear of mind when they have the ball. They second guess themselves and it creates turnovers, either by them or the team mate they put under pressure. I was always taught the first option was the best option and it also applies at AFL level. Gresham and Jones are others who have no idea what they are going to do with it, apart from take the game on, but that is often a weapon.

When you think about last years premiers skill level, I cant think of one player in that team who cant consistently hit targets or kick goals. We have anywhere from 8-10 who turn the ball over or miss easy shots on goals they should be making. Like others I believe it needs to be corrected if we are to improve significantly.

Hopefully with the intruction of new talent and new game structures they will lessen the impacts turnovers have on the team.

I think Moods point is a good one
No side has 22 great kicks - u carry some for other strengths but there is a way to make it easier for players poor by foot/hand IF they have some certainty in game plan that players trust/rely on.
Clint Jones, Robert Eddy or the guy that ended up an assistant at Tigers (name escapes me) weren’t great by foot….didn’t hold us back too much…
Compare the lack of confidence in kicking and add to that complete chaos with what to fo with ball in hand to align to team game style (last year at times we just needed Benny Hill music! Comedy stuff)
RTB will work on balance of skills on list and he’ll turn some over to do it
Sensible gane structure/plan is a given
And I think we’ll go backwards this year or hold steady as we get that mix right

The issue we have is we don't carry too many other strengths right at the moment, Clint Jones, Robert Eddie and McQualter, (you're welcome), were surrounded by about 17 grand final ready stars. If I was Lyon I'd be buying a copy of the Benny Hill music if we cop any more injuries, especially to key players.

True abd that’s why Lyon got 4 years and why I keep saying we are going to need to turn over some of the lesser skilled “stars” of Richo/Ratten era …we will need to inject mor Pou like talent it’s pretty simple …
I think at least with Lyon’s game players will know it (execution will be interesting) but none of Thi’s handballing into team mates backs as they run past oblivious to a pass coming….or stupid stuff like watching Brad Hill with an opponent on his tail ducking abd weaving past for cheap handballs…

Very simple!

It sounds like Lyon has the secret formula for recruiting A grade and elite talent, all I hope is he keeps it a secret and doesn't let the other 17 clubs know what his secret is.

What year are you predicting Phillipou wins his first AA and Brownlow?

[Vortex]

Better tell Lyon (and the new list manager) that we are rebuilding

It may surprise them

The 'R' word will only become official after Bassett engages some external consultants to give him a report. The announcement will start with, "I told you we had to go backwards".

Hopefully we defy the odds and at least hold a middle ladder position.

[Vortex]

IndecIsion can be a problem, too. A better structured game plan can help with that

I particularly think Webster and Ross are those who arent clear of mind when they have the ball. They second guess themselves and it creates turnovers, either by them of the team mate they put under pressure. I was always taught the first option was the best option and it also applies at AFL level. Gresham and Jones are others who have no idea what they are going to do with it, apart from take the game on, but that is often a weapon.

When you think about last years premiers skill level, I cant think of one player in that team who cant consistently hit targets or kick goals. We have anywhere from 8-10 who turn the ball over or miss easy shots on goals they should be making. Like others I believe it needs to be corrected if we are to improve significantly.

Hopefully with the intruction of new talent and new game structures they will lessen the impacts turnovers have on the team.

that's why this 3 second rule has me worried, poor skills combined with the pressure of having to move the ball quickly could see us become the turnover kings, it's why it won't surprise me if Ross 3.0 with extra cuddles reverts back to Ross 1.0 and we become overly defensive once again out of necessity.

I think the benefit of the 3 seconds rule is even if we do muff a kick forward, the opposition arent going to be set up behind the ball, as they were when we were moving it slowly. It will be 1 on 1 contests which will give the forwards a chance. Everybody saw how bloody frustrating it was seeing Minx double & triple teamed last season, and how predictable we had become so hopefully we can eliminate that.

As long as our forward defensive game is elite because the opposition will score even quicker from turnovers out of our front half than they did in 21 and 22, meaning it's all good and well to get the ball down there quickly as long as you have a viable and executable plan to lock it in F50 and create scoring potential.

[Teflon]

IndecIsion can be a problem, too. A better structured game plan can help with that

I particularly think Howard, Webster and Ross are those who arent clear of mind when they have the ball. They second guess themselves and it creates turnovers, either by them or the team mate they put under pressure. I was always taught the first option was the best option and it also applies at AFL level. Gresham and Jones are others who have no idea what they are going to do with it, apart from take the game on, but that is often a weapon.

When you think about last years premiers skill level, I cant think of one player in that team who cant consistently hit targets or kick goals. We have anywhere from 8-10 who turn the ball over or miss easy shots on goals they should be making. Like others I believe it needs to be corrected if we are to improve significantly.

Hopefully with the intruction of new talent and new game structures they will lessen the impacts turnovers have on the team.

I think Moods point is a good one
No side has 22 great kicks - u carry some for other strengths but there is a way to make it easier for players poor by foot/hand IF they have some certainty in game plan that players trust/rely on.
Clint Jones, Robert Eddy or the guy that ended up an assistant at Tigers (name escapes me) weren’t great by foot….didn’t hold us back too much…
Compare the lack of confidence in kicking and add to that complete chaos with what to fo with ball in hand to align to team game style (last year at times we just needed Benny Hill music! Comedy stuff)
RTB will work on balance of skills on list and he’ll turn some over to do it
Sensible gane structure/plan is a given
And I think we’ll go backwards this year or hold steady as we get that mix right

The issue we have is we don't carry too many other strengths right at the moment, Clint Jones, Robert Eddie and McQualter, (you're welcome), were surrounded by about 17 grand final ready stars. If I was Lyon I'd be buying a copy of the Benny Hill music if we cop any more injuries, especially to key players.

True abd that’s why Lyon got 4 years and why I keep saying we are going to need to turn over some of the lesser skilled “stars” of Richo/Ratten era …we will need to inject mor Pou like talent it’s pretty simple …
I think at least with Lyon’s game players will know it (execution will be interesting) but none of Thi’s handballing into team mates backs as they run past oblivious to a pass coming….or stupid stuff like watching Brad Hill with an opponent on his tail ducking abd weaving past for cheap handballs…

Very simple!

It sounds like Lyon has the secret formula for recruiting A grade and elite talent, all I hope is he keeps it a secret and doesn't let the other 17 clubs know what his secret is.

What year are you predicting Phillipou wins his first AA and Brownlow?

Troll alert

[Teflon]

Better tell Lyon (and the new list manager) that we are rebuilding

It may surprise them

Better stop spamming the board with sane comments that’s been explained 3 times to you

Are we challenging???

Round n round in circles we go again…

[Teflon]

Better tell Lyon (and the new list manager) that we are rebuilding

It may surprise them

The 'R' word will only become official after Bassett engages some external consultants to give him a report. The announcement will start with, "I told you we had to go backwards".

Hopefully we defy the odds and at least hold a middle ladder position.

No one I read (with half a brain) is tipping we play finals??
All I read (with a modicum of footy nous) expect us mid table or taking a step backwards to go forward with a new coach/game plan etc
It’s only those with some weird hatred for corporate Australia and consultants that keep sticking the knives into Bassat/club.
Again, do you think Bassatt and Board erred in sacking cuddles and replacing him with Lyon??
I mean….if we are going to run the same troll argument it’s only fair we ask you the question again…

[Vortex]

Better tell Lyon (and the new list manager) that we are rebuilding

It may surprise them

The 'R' word will only become official after Bassett engages some external consultants to give him a report. The announcement will start with, "I told you we had to go backwards".

Hopefully we defy the odds and at least hold a middle ladder position.

No one I read (with half a brain) is tipping we play finals??
All I read (with a modicum of footy nous) expect us mid table or taking a step backwards to go forward with a new coach/game plan etc
It’s only those with some weird hatred for corporate Australia and consultants that keep sticking the knives into Bassat/club.
Again, do you think Bassatt and Board erred in sacking cuddles and replacing him with Lyon??
I mean….if we are going to run the same troll argument it’s only fair we ask you the question again…

Teffers as you know I love the slap N tickle but try and keep this thread for footy and training discussions.

What are your thoughts on this 3 second rule we've been training and our current skill level, any concerns?

[B.M]

I think we can play finals.

And I’d rather that and go watch 12-13 wins this season than ‘go backwards’ and win 6-8.

Good run with injury and there is no reason why we can’t compete strongly.

We won 11 last season - with what you say was a terrible coach. Therefore, if I listen to experts on here who think the coach is the No1 driver for success - we should win 15 and be top 4.
Especially since our new coach is RTB - the best non premiership coach ever!!!

[SaintPav]

Well we started off ok in 2022 just like…

[SaintPav]

I think we can play finals.

And I’d rather that and go watch 12-13 wins this season than ‘go backwards’ and win 6-8.

Good run with injury and there is no reason why we can’t compete strongly.

We won 11 last season - with what you say was a terrible coach. Therefore, if I listen to experts on here who think the coach is the No1 driver for success - we should win 15 and be top 4.
Especially since our new coach is RTB - the best non premiership coach ever!!!

Err. Yeah, nah.

[Vortex]

I think we can play finals.

And I’d rather that and go watch 12-13 wins this season than ‘go backwards’ and win 6-8.

Good run with injury and there is no reason why we can’t compete strongly.

We won 11 last season - with what you say was a terrible coach. Therefore, if I listen to experts on here who think the coach is the No1 driver for success - we should win 15 and be top 4.
Especially since our new coach is RTB - the best non premiership coach ever!!!

King sounds like he could be out until at least mid season despite the folks in the membership department PR spinning he will be back by R4.

Our forward line will be mostly stocked with either debutants, players with less than 10 games to their name or someone like Wood, Cordy or Battle which then robs us up the ground.

We are in trouble early and even magic has its limits. We can't afford anymore injuries...especially to players who can score.

[Templar]

Stack is still available. Can play forward too. Definite[y knows were the goals sre.

[Vortex]

Stack is still available. Can play forward too. Definite[y knows were the goals sre.

I agree, the risk is worth it, worse case we have to sack him if he stuffs up, desperate times calls for desperate measures. Just grab whatever goal kicking resources there available and stuff the do gooders.