How long before happy Lyon cracks it

[saynta]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 74600346f9


"Ross Lyon says he has mellowed since his last intense stint at the Saints. But a tough early fixture will put that to the test. See everything you need to know about St Kilda for 2023.
Glenn McFarlane
3 min read
January 2, 2023 - 4:00PM


It’s hard to know what to expect in year one of Ross Lyon 2.0. St Kilda’s list hasn’t changed a great deal but the style and execution will almost certainly be fashioned in a different manner. In the club’s 150th birthday, the Saints will be compelling viewing no matter what happens as Lyon tries to put his own unique stamp on a team that needs to do better.
.
ST KILDA

Coach: Ross Lyon

Captain: Jack Steele (TBC)
Ross Lyon came so close to premiership glory as a coach that he could almost touch it. Can he take the Saints all the way to the top one more time?


What happened in 2022?

St Kilda started the season with a blaze of wins, claiming some good scalps, and appeared on track to play finals footy at the mid-year point of the season. At that stage, the Saints were 8-3, having defeated Richmond (33 points in round 3) and eventual premiers Geelong (10 points in round 9). Then something went drastically wrong. The Saints won only three games in the back half of the year, albeit one of them was against Carlton by 15 points in round 15. Losses to top teams Geelong, Sydney and Brisbane saw the Saints miss out on the finals by a game and percentage, an outcome that cost Brett Ratten his job.

Where do they finish in 2023?

St Kilda is arguably the hardest club to assess going into next year for a number of reasons. They have a new coach who will take some time to implement a new system and get a handle on the playing group. He has a new group of assistants including club favourites Lenny Hayes, Robert Harvey and Brendon Goddard. Given the Saints just missed the eight last season, their aim must be to play finals footy in 2023. It won’t be easy, but Lyon has a knack of getting a team to quickly gel, so anything is possible. Realistically, though, expect the Saints to finish in the middle tier of the ladder – anywhere from 7th to 13th.
Marcus Windhager has been predicted to take his game to a new level in 2023.
.
Biggest improver in 2022

Marcus Windhager took some of the biggest names in AFL football in shutdown roles in 2022. It showed he feels more than at home at the level, with his standout role on Lachie Neale raising eyebrows as he kept the Lions superstar to a season-low 16 disposals. Saints insiders believe shutdown roles are only the tip of the iceberg for Windhager, who is expected to take his game to a new level in 2023. He will be putting serious pressure on some of the Saints’ midfield mainstays. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera can also take the next step next season. Mitch Owens might not start in the Saints’ best side of 2023, but we suspect it won’t be long before he is in there for good.
The Saints will be looking for more bang for their buck with three-time premiership player Brad Hill.

X-factor

Could Brad Hill’s permanent return to the wing under his old coach be the move that reignites his career, and gives the Saints extra speed through the middle of the ground they so desperately need? St Kilda needs to get more out of the three-time premiership player, who is on more than $850,000 a season. This move could benefit the player but also the club, which has been looking for something different in the midfield mix. And don’t discount first-year Saint Mattaes Phillipou making a big X-factor impression in his debut year.

Coach status

St Kilda’s quest to become a more ruthlessly efficient club was the reason behind the decision to chase Ross Lyon as Brett Ratten’s replacement. Lyon has a four-year deal to guide the Saints back into the premiership window after a decade effectively treading water. He has already suggested he might be a little more mellow this time around, but we suspect that could all change when the real stuff starts.


ST KILDA BEST 23

B Paton, Howard, Wilkie
HB Sinclair, Battle, McKenzie
C Hill, Crouch, Billings
HF Windhager, Membrey, Gresham
F Butler, King, Higgins
Foll Marshall, Steele, Ross
Int Wanganeen-Milera, Hayes, Webster, Clark
Sub Phillipou 
Who is in last year of contract?

Daniel McKenzie, Hunter Clark, Jack Bytel, Jack Peris, Jade Gresham, Jimmy Webster, Leo Connolly, Mason Wood, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Oscar Adams, Ryan Byrnes, Seb Ross, Tom Campbell, Tom Highmore, Nick Coffield, Zak Jones, Jack Higgins.
Outs from 2022

Paddy Ryder, Dan Hannebery, Jarryn Geary, Josiah Kyle, Dean Kent, Darragh Joyce, Ben Long, Jarrod Lienert
Former Bulldog Zaine Cordy should add some strength to St Kilda’s backline.

Ins for 2023


Zaine Cordy, Mattaes Phillipou, James Van Es, Olli Hotton, Isaac Keeler"

[Vortex]

It's started already and the year is only 2 days old.

The headline says it all and is only a small sign of what awaits the club if things turn pear shape.

The media are salivating at the prospect of another St Kilda circus act and Bassett has put it on a platter for them.

[Devilhead]

The Media would have been salivating at prospect of us keeping Ratten and he kept failing to deliver

[The Fireman]

as soon as he reads Vortex's posts

[Vortex]

The Media would have been salivating at prospect of us keeping Ratten and he kept failing to deliver

Ratten atleast was afforded a honeymoon period.

The media are showing their nasty hand early,

[Sanctorum]

The Media would have been salivating at prospect of us keeping Ratten and he kept failing to deliver

Ratten atleast was afforded a honeymoon period.

The media are showing their nasty hand early,

Utter baloney Vortex, there's nothing nasty implied in the article posted by saynta.

What joy do you get from always being so miserably negative about stuff that is published about St Kilda, I was thinking that maybe you might have made a New Year resolution to feel happy about our footy team for a change

There will always be media focus on coaches of teams that don't live up to expectations, Ken Hinkley at Port Adelaide will be under far greater pressure than Ross Lyon, Chris Fagan is another coach who will be held to account if the Lions misfire in the finals again. Stuart Dew, Justin Longmuir and Adam Simpson are others that will be under the pump this year.

[Vortex]

The Media would have been salivating at prospect of us keeping Ratten and he kept failing to deliver

Ratten atleast was afforded a honeymoon period.

The media are showing their nasty hand early,

Utter baloney Vortex, there's nothing nasty implied in the article posted by saynta.

What joy do you get from always being so miserably negative about stuff that is published about St Kilda, I was thinking that maybe you might have made a New Year resolution to feel happy about our footy team for a change

There will always be media focus on coaches of teams that don't live up to expectations, Ken Hinkley at Port Adelaide will be under far greater pressure than Ross Lyon, Chris Fagan is another coach who will be held to account if the Lions misfire in the finals again. Stuart Dew, Justin Longmuir and Adam Simpson are others that will be under the pump this year.

your generation probably doesn't recognise bullying and harassment, as I said, the headline says it all.

[saynta]

The Media would have been salivating at prospect of us keeping Ratten and he kept failing to deliver

Ratten atleast was afforded a honeymoon period.

The media are showing their nasty hand early,

Utter baloney Vortex, there's nothing nasty implied in the article posted by saynta.

What joy do you get from always being so miserably negative about stuff that is published about St Kilda, I was thinking that maybe you might have made a New Year resolution to feel happy about our footy team for a change

There will always be media focus on coaches of teams that don't live up to expectations, Ken Hinkley at Port Adelaide will be under far greater pressure than Ross Lyon, Chris Fagan is another coach who will be held to account if the Lions misfire in the finals again. Stuart Dew, Justin Longmuir and Adam Simpson are others that will be under the pump this year.

your generation probably doesn't recognise bullying and harassment, as I said, the headline says it all.

Once again you choose to misinterpret the written word.

Did you even bother to read the article ?

[santazzi]

Thanks for taking the time to post the article saynta.

[Vortex]

The Media would have been salivating at prospect of us keeping Ratten and he kept failing to deliver

Ratten atleast was afforded a honeymoon period.

The media are showing their nasty hand early,

Utter baloney Vortex, there's nothing nasty implied in the article posted by saynta.

What joy do you get from always being so miserably negative about stuff that is published about St Kilda, I was thinking that maybe you might have made a New Year resolution to feel happy about our footy team for a change

There will always be media focus on coaches of teams that don't live up to expectations, Ken Hinkley at Port Adelaide will be under far greater pressure than Ross Lyon, Chris Fagan is another coach who will be held to account if the Lions misfire in the finals again. Stuart Dew, Justin Longmuir and Adam Simpson are others that will be under the pump this year.

your generation probably doesn't recognise bullying and harassment, as I said, the headline says it all.

Once again you choose to misinterpret the written word.

Did you even bother to read the article ?

as a general rule I don't read anything you post although I do enjoy your rolly eyes emojis, I just noticed the headline and took off half cocked and formed a far right view like a good reader of the Herald Sun should.

[Impatient Sainter]

Thanks Saynta.

The list of players coming out of contract is of the most interest. Some players on that list are going to need big years to be remain at the club next year! With next years draft pool said to have more key talls available, I think the club will eyeing extra early picks.

Hopefully with the changes in the Football Dept the entire list can have an extra ordinary year?

[saynta]

The Media would have been salivating at prospect of us keeping Ratten and he kept failing to deliver

Ratten atleast was afforded a honeymoon period.

The media are showing their nasty hand early,

Utter baloney Vortex, there's nothing nasty implied in the article posted by saynta.

What joy do you get from always being so miserably negative about stuff that is published about St Kilda, I was thinking that maybe you might have made a New Year resolution to feel happy about our footy team for a change

There will always be media focus on coaches of teams that don't live up to expectations, Ken Hinkley at Port Adelaide will be under far greater pressure than Ross Lyon, Chris Fagan is another coach who will be held to account if the Lions misfire in the finals again. Stuart Dew, Justin Longmuir and Adam Simpson are others that will be under the pump this year.

your generation probably doesn't recognise bullying and harassment, as I said, the headline says it all.

Once again you choose to misinterpret the written word.

Did you even bother to read the article ?

as a general rule I don't read anything you post although I do enjoy your rolly eyes emojis, I just noticed the headline and took off half cocked and formed a far right view like a good reader of the Herald Sun should.

I am glad to hear that you don't read any of the articles posted by me. Hate to think I was educating one of the more ignorant SS posters.

[Teflon]

Puff piece rubbish
Saints hard to predict
Lyon could be boom or bust
Windhager doing well

Hard hitting journalism there…

[B.M]

I predict we will be 2-6 after 8 rounds

I’ll be interested to see how your opinions change over the course of the year

Will you flip flop - like Joffaboy used to and jump off the RTB train
Or will you blame the list?? Thus proving my point about coaches?!

I know

It’ll be bloody Seb Ross

[Teflon]

I predict we will be 2-6 after 8 rounds

I’ll be interested to see how your opinions change over the course of the year

Will you flip flop - like Joffaboy used to and jump off the RTB train
Or will you blame the list?? Thus proving my point about coaches?!

I know

It’ll be bloody Seb Ross

You know f’all let’s be honest
Spare us your high school predictions- save it for the kids.

[B.M]

Getting personal- nice touch!

I’d say keep it to footy - but not your forte!

So, stick to what you know.

[Sanctorum]

Utter baloney Vortex, there's nothing nasty implied in the article posted by saynta.

What joy do you get from always being so miserably negative about stuff that is published about St Kilda, I was thinking that maybe you might have made a New Year resolution to feel happy about our footy team for a change

There will always be media focus on coaches of teams that don't live up to expectations, Ken Hinkley at Port Adelaide will be under far greater pressure than Ross Lyon, Chris Fagan is another coach who will be held to account if the Lions misfire in the finals again. Stuart Dew, Justin Longmuir and Adam Simpson are others that will be under the pump this year.

your generation probably doesn't recognise bullying and harassment, as I said, the headline says it all.

Forgive my dimwittedness (proof I'm getting really really old??) in not realising that the author of this article, Glenn McFarlane was actually "bullying and harassing" Ross Lyon by suggesting that it is only a matter of time before he cracks it....

I fail to understand why you regard the headline as in any way offensive to anyone because the only mention in this article of Lyon "cracking up" is the quite benign conclusive paragraph:
"He has already suggested he might be a little more mellow this time around, but we suspect that could all change when the real stuff starts."

Frankly, I would be very happy if the old RTB surfaces and cracks the whip in the way he has done in the past, should the players deserve it!

I look forward to reading your rebuttal of my thesis Vortex, over to you....

[Vortex]

Utter baloney Vortex, there's nothing nasty implied in the article posted by saynta.

What joy do you get from always being so miserably negative about stuff that is published about St Kilda, I was thinking that maybe you might have made a New Year resolution to feel happy about our footy team for a change

There will always be media focus on coaches of teams that don't live up to expectations, Ken Hinkley at Port Adelaide will be under far greater pressure than Ross Lyon, Chris Fagan is another coach who will be held to account if the Lions misfire in the finals again. Stuart Dew, Justin Longmuir and Adam Simpson are others that will be under the pump this year.

your generation probably doesn't recognise bullying and harassment, as I said, the headline says it all.

Forgive my dimwittedness (proof I'm getting really really old??) in not realising that the author of this article, Glenn McFarlane was actually "bullying and harassing" Ross Lyon by suggesting that it is only a matter of time before he cracks it....

I fail to understand why you regard the headline as in any way offensive to anyone because the only mention in this article of Lyon "cracking up" is the quite benign conclusive paragraph:
"He has already suggested he might be a little more mellow this time around, but we suspect that could all change when the real stuff starts."

Frankly, I would be very happy if the old RTB surfaces and cracks the whip in the way he has done in the past, should the players deserve it!

I look forward to reading your rebuttal of my thesis Vortex, over to you....

We shouldn't take offence when someone points out the attributes that attach themselves to a generation, we all have generational attributes.

Having said that, your beliefs as an octogenarian may be completely out of step with the current 20 something generation, your belief that all it takes to generate good performance is to "crack a whip" will more than likely see many walk from the club.

The fact of the matter is Ross was sacked at Freo for many reasons and if you visit the Freo BF site and search around for feedback on the years leading up to and around his sacking you will be met with an avalanche of comments around excessive injury and mental fatigue as a result of Ross's whip cracking management style.

Interesting that many on this board, who happen to be mostly from older generations are of the absolute firm belief that Ross and his whip is exactly what the club needs to win some silverware, strange huh, is it a belief deeply rooted in worlds best practice for high performance management or is it a misguided ignorance from people who grew up in different times.

Do you have some recent experience of managing 20 something men? Do you use the whip?

[Sanctorum]

Utter baloney Vortex, there's nothing nasty implied in the article posted by saynta.

What joy do you get from always being so miserably negative about stuff that is published about St Kilda, I was thinking that maybe you might have made a New Year resolution to feel happy about our footy team for a change

There will always be media focus on coaches of teams that don't live up to expectations, Ken Hinkley at Port Adelaide will be under far greater pressure than Ross Lyon, Chris Fagan is another coach who will be held to account if the Lions misfire in the finals again. Stuart Dew, Justin Longmuir and Adam Simpson are others that will be under the pump this year.

your generation probably doesn't recognise bullying and harassment, as I said, the headline says it all.

Forgive my dimwittedness (proof I'm getting really really old??) in not realising that the author of this article, Glenn McFarlane was actually "bullying and harassing" Ross Lyon by suggesting that it is only a matter of time before he cracks it....

I fail to understand why you regard the headline as in any way offensive to anyone because the only mention in this article of Lyon "cracking up" is the quite benign conclusive paragraph:
"He has already suggested he might be a little more mellow this time around, but we suspect that could all change when the real stuff starts."

Frankly, I would be very happy if the old RTB surfaces and cracks the whip in the way he has done in the past, should the players deserve it!

I look forward to reading your rebuttal of my thesis Vortex, over to you....

We shouldn't take offence when someone points out the attributes that attach themselves to a generation, we all have generational attributes.

Having said that, your beliefs as an octogenarian may be completely out of step with the current 20 something generation, your belief that all it takes to generate good performance is to "crack a whip" will more than likely see many walk from the club.

The fact of the matter is Ross was sacked at Freo for many reasons and if you visit the Freo BF site and search around for feedback on the years leading up to and around his sacking you will be met with an avalanche of comments around excessive injury and mental fatigue as a result of Ross's whip cracking management style.

Interesting that many on this board, who happen to be mostly from older generations are of the absolute firm belief that Ross and his whip is exactly what the club needs to win some silverware, strange huh, is it a belief deeply rooted in worlds best practice for high performance management or is it a misguided ignorance from people who grew up in different times.

Do you have some recent experience of managing 20 something men? Do you use the whip?

No offence taken Vortex but I'm disappointed that you have gone off-theme and conveniently ignored addressing the points I raised above, but to answer your question:

I retired from my last small business in March 2020 which employed a small nunmber of mainly young people in late teens and early 20s going back (on and off) to 1975. No, Vortex, cracking a whip has never been my style, so the question is irrelevant.

I don't visit BF so am totally ignorant of what is being reported about Ross Lyon's engagement with Fremantle players, but I would venture to suggest that a vast majority of his players will praise him for the way he coached, much like the St Kilda players from his previous 5 years at Moorabbin have done. I'ts not surprising that Freo supporters despise him, but that would also have been the case with Saints supporters circa end 2011 and 2012/13, and as you know, some still do today!

What has stuck in my memory is that when Nick Riewoldt was asked after he retired what sort of coach he preferred, he said that a hard coach always got the best out of him.

Modern day coaching is certainly a far cry from the good old days, as witnessed last year when David Noble was sacked after his players copped a spray which they didn't like! Nonetheless, despite your misgivings, I believe that a good coach has the skills to employ a variety of ways, hard, medium, soft, to motivate players and understands that "one size doesn't fit all".

Contrary to your assertions I am quite certain that Andrew Bassat and Board members were not motivated per se to bring in "Hard Ross", most of them are professional business leaders who will have a clear understanding that the world has changed. Rather, I expect they were impressed with his outstanding coaching record and his firm commitment to complete some "unfinished business" at St Kilda.

Yes, I fully accept that "my" generation is not on the same wavelength as Generation X, Millenials or Generations Z and Alpha, and for that I'm extremely thankful - as I've mentioned before, I'm now a member of the "what would you know Grandpa" Generation. That said, I still enjoy engaging in robust discussions about the world we live in, not least about my hallowed (haloed) footy team!

[Scollop]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 74600346f9


ST KILDA BEST 23

B Paton, Howard, Wilkie
HB Sinclair, Battle, McKenzie
C Hill, Crouch, Billings
HF Windhager, Membrey, Gresham
F Butler, King, Higgins
Foll Marshall, Steele, Ross
Int Wanganeen-Milera, Hayes, Webster, Clark
Sub Phillipou 
Who is in last year of contract?

Daniel McKenzie, Hunter Clark, Jack Bytel, Jack Peris, Jade Gresham, Jimmy Webster, Leo Connolly, Mason Wood, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Oscar Adams, Ryan Byrnes, Seb Ross, Tom Campbell, Tom Highmore, Nick Coffield, Zak Jones, Jack Higgins.
Outs from 2022

Paddy Ryder, Dan Hannebery, Jarryn Geary, Josiah Kyle, Dean Kent, Darragh Joyce, Ben Long, Jarrod Lienert
Former Bulldog Zaine Cordy should add some strength to St Kilda’s backline.

The author of the article reckons Cordy ‘should add some strength to St Kilda’s backline’ but hasn’t got him in the Best 23

I reckon it’ll be interesting if we go with Battle forward while King is out and Cordy replaces Josh in defense. I wouldn’t be surprised if Josh stays in the backline, so maybe Cordy could be a short term fix up forward.

Webster is an interesting one. Had a good year last year and rarely beaten. At his best he keeps his spot in defence imo and DMac sits on the pine. DMac and other players who sat out the back half of 2022, need to show some form before they break back into the firsts in my opinion.

The other guy that I think should be Best 23 (if fully fit) is Mason Wood. Mason Wood was fantastic in 2022 and could also replace DMac on the HBF in the so called Best 23. Personally, I reckon he’ll be on the wing instead of Billings if Billings isn’t fully fit by round 1.

Nick Coffield also missing from Best 23 according to the article. I think Nick at his best should be able to force his way back into the team

[Vortex]

Frankly, I would be very happy if the old RTB surfaces and cracks the whip in the way he has done in the past, should the players deserve it!

you seem confused, asking again, do you like to whip?

[CQ SAINT]

We arent going up the ladder. That would be stupid.

[Teflon]

Crack em Rossy
The minute they squib it like that shambles of a game against Bombers last year…..give ‘em the stick
Too many cuddles time to get serious about a flag too many have died waiting

[Sanctorum]

Frankly, I would be very happy if the old RTB surfaces and cracks the whip in the way he has done in the past, should the players deserve it!

you seem confused, asking again, do you like to whip?

Applied judiciuously, YES, why not, and by the way if you think I'm confused, we're not talking about a physical whip here, just a metaphorical one such as a good old fashioned verbal spray, nothing wrong with that is there??

You think I'm cofused? Asking again: why haven't you gone back over the article Vortex and explained exactly what words the journo used to indicate harrassment or bullying of our coach and/or team, which prompted my response to your post in the first place.....

[Vortex]

Frankly, I would be very happy if the old RTB surfaces and cracks the whip in the way he has done in the past, should the players deserve it!

you seem confused, asking again, do you like to whip?

Applied judiciuously, YES, why not, and by the way if you think I'm confused, we're not talking about a physical whip here, just a metaphorical one such as a good old fashioned verbal spray, nothing wrong with that is there??

You think I'm cofused? Asking again: why haven't you gone back over the article Vortex and explained exactly what words the journo used to indicate harrassment or bullying of our coach and/or team, which prompted my response to your post in the first place.....

Why are we doing the slow dance?

Of course it's a metaphorical whip.

I told you it was the headline.

Thread drift, were you were in the mining industry?