Lyon and his vision of our 2023 game style.

[Teflon]

Sphincters are tightening from a few of the RTB fanboys as the dust settles on the initial honeymoon period

Going to be fascinating here on saintsational next year

Time to put up mouthpiece
Are you telling us all the club made a mistake in removing Cuddles and going with Lyon ????? Is that your point?? Do you have a point???
Let’s hear your master plan genius?? - you might even get scoop in before the next Herald Sun piece

Nothing?????

[Scollop]

Sphincters are tightening from a few of the RTB fanboys as the dust settles on the initial honeymoon period

Going to be fascinating here on saintsational next year

Time to put up mouthpiece
Are you telling us all the club made a mistake in removing Cuddles and going with Lyon ????? Is that your point?? Do you have a point???
Let’s hear your master plan genius?? - you might even get scoop in before the next Herald Sun piece

Why don’t you just answer your own question this time as well as every other time you’ve answered your own questions dumbarse…

Hardwick took over as senior coach of the Tigers at the end of 2009 and was coach of the squad for 7 years before he won his first flag. How many flags as a senior coach would GT have won if he was in control of the Saints between 2007-2014?

There are industry people who don’t have the same faith in Lyon that you do. Lyon was gifted a maturing Saints squad in 2007 that was about to enter it’s premiership window. They already played off in consecutive finals including back to back prelims 2004/5.

How many flags would Mark Harvey have won if he remained with Fremantle from 2012-2016?

Freo was in a prelim final as a young squad 12 months prior to Lyon being appointed. The oft stated comeback is; “why wasn’t he snapped up as senior coach by other clubs?”. We don’t know Mark and we cannot say we know what his preference was or what might have been. Who knows what ‘would’ have happened if Freo had continuity

You say Brett wasn’t good enough in 2021 and 2022. I say we fell short because of injuries. Brett took a bottom four team and turned them around to play finals. Yeah but….yeah but…………..’that was the list changes’….OHhhhh Ok…"………………so it’s the playing list that got us into finals and winning a final in 2020. It wasn’t Brett? Was it?

Since when did Ross ever take a team from bottom four all the way to finals?

It’s easy to say this coach is better than that coach, but howabout you look at the squads each guy has inherited. The real test is whether Ross can emulate what Brett did. Can Lyon turn this club around and can he lift a squad that seems middle of the road

The real question is what can RTB do with this current Saints list over the next 3-4 years? You can speculate all you like. I’ll support the team, the players, the club and the guys like BJ, Lennie and Banger….I’ll reserve judgement on RTB until 2025

[Teflon]

Sphincters are tightening from a few of the RTB fanboys as the dust settles on the initial honeymoon period

Going to be fascinating here on saintsational next year

Time to put up mouthpiece
Are you telling us all the club made a mistake in removing Cuddles and going with Lyon ????? Is that your point?? Do you have a point???
Let’s hear your master plan genius?? - you might even get scoop in before the next Herald Sun piece

Why don’t you just answer your own question this time as well as every other time you’ve answered your own questions dumbarse…

Hardwick took over as senior coach of the Tigers at the end of 2009 and was coach of the squad for 7 years before he won his first flag. How many flags as a senior coach would GT have won if he was in control of the Saints between 2007-2014?

There are industry people who don’t have the same faith in Lyon that you do. Lyon was gifted a maturing Saints squad in 2007 that was about to enter it’s premiership window. They already played off in consecutive finals including back to back prelims 2004/5.

How many flags would Mark Harvey have won if he remained with Fremantle from 2012-2016?

Freo was in a prelim final as a young squad 12 months prior to Lyon being appointed. The oft stated comeback is; “why wasn’t he snapped up as senior coach by other clubs?”. We don’t know Mark and we cannot say we know what his preference was or what might have been. Who knows what ‘would’ have happened if Freo had continuity

You say Brett wasn’t good enough in 2021 and 2022. I say we fell short because of injuries. Brett took a bottom four team and turned them around to play finals. Yeah but….yeah but…………..’that was the list changes’….OHhhhh Ok…"………………so it’s the playing list that got us into finals and winning a final in 2020. It wasn’t Brett? Was it?

Since when did Ross ever take a team from bottom four all the way to finals?

It’s easy to say this coach is better than that coach, but howabout you look at the squads each guy has inherited. The real test is whether Ross can emulate what Brett did. Can Lyon turn this club around and can he lift a squad that seems middle of the road

The real question is what can RTB do with this current Saints list over the next 3-4 years? You can speculate all you like. I’ll support the team, the players, the club and the guys like BJ, Lennie and Banger….I’ll reserve judgement on RTB until 2025

I can speculate “all I like” then you proceed to do just that on Mark Harvey (I’ve heard it all now…) that he “might” have been a good coach one day OR that good ole GT (who **** ran training services and imo had a BETTER list than Lyon) may have morphed into a genius coach if only he had more time???….do you read the tripe you write??
And as for RTB having to “emulate what Brett did in Covid 2021” what a joke - Lyon’s record at 2 clubs runs rings around anything Ratten did with us or at Carlton (where he got the arse cause they too realised he had 1 coaching trick). And yep Saints and Freo lists had more A graders than we do now but I’d argue our 09 /10 saints list doesn’t have the depth of B graders we do now. That’s LYON’S challenge but he’s clearly seen something he likes and I’d back him in anyday over the amateur hour game plan Shyte I saw Ratten dish up last half of 22 season (when he’d clearly lost the playing group - thank **** the Board listened to Jason Blake).
Anyway, you keep hoping for failure and the rest of us will back the club in for FINALLY having the balls to put an end to mediocre Brett.
I’m no still waiting for you to answer 1 simple question: Are you saying you would’ve retained Brett Ratten and not gone for Lyon??? If not, tell us all what your coup would’ve looked like…intriguing stuff…
And dumbass??? Highbrow sledging that stuff….

[Scollop]

Sorry…maybe you aren’t a dumbarse. You’re just a loon

[samoht]

See next post.

[samoht]

I agree with scollop.

We are always speculating whenever we're comparing coaches ... different lists, different years, etc...

I mean the same coach goes from 19-0 to 0-10. It is ridiculous to even compare the same coach with themselves ... it's obviously the list, the recruiters, injuries - other much bigger factors at play.
If the coach can really make all the difference, and if there are phases/versions that they go through (let's go along with the coach myth for a sec)... let's hope RL reverts back to his mark 1 version, and not his final 4 year at Freo and sackable version.

Where RL can make a difference, is in keeping our soft tissue injuries down to a minimum (as he's already demonstrated this when he took over from GT) ... and I liked his recruitment of Misson, etc. He gets the right people on board and places a lot of emphasis in this key area.

Without injuries, or when our injury count was at a minimum, we were an 8-3 side, let's not forget. We are a pretty good team.
And we can be that team again ... and he can be the mark 1 version of himself once again on the back of it (with minimal injuries).

This adulation of coaches is risible ... but RL's a smart operator, I give him that much. St Kilda will do well if we can keep the injuries to a minimum, and we've recruited well the last 2 years, especially.

He's come in at a good time, and he can obviously see the opportunity.

[Vortex]

It's always more than a head coach, way more, but we seem to be stuck in a sacking loop.

How many years do fans give Ross before he's sacked?

You know it's coming.

[saynta]

Sphincters are tightening from a few of the RTB fanboys as the dust settles on the initial honeymoon period

Going to be fascinating here on saintsational next year

Time to put up mouthpiece
Are you telling us all the club made a mistake in removing Cuddles and going with Lyon ????? Is that your point?? Do you have a point???
Let’s hear your master plan genius?? - you might even get scoop in before the next Herald Sun piece

Why don’t you just answer your own question this time as well as every other time you’ve answered your own questions dumbarse…

Hardwick took over as senior coach of the Tigers at the end of 2009 and was coach of the squad for 7 years before he won his first flag. How many flags as a senior coach would GT have won if he was in control of the Saints between 2007-2014?

There are industry people who don’t have the same faith in Lyon that you do. Lyon was gifted a maturing Saints squad in 2007 that was about to enter it’s premiership window. They already played off in consecutive finals including back to back prelims 2004/5.

How many flags would Mark Harvey have won if he remained with Fremantle from 2012-2016?

Freo was in a prelim final as a young squad 12 months prior to Lyon being appointed. The oft stated comeback is; “why wasn’t he snapped up as senior coach by other clubs?”. We don’t know Mark and we cannot say we know what his preference was or what might have been. Who knows what ‘would’ have happened if Freo had continuity

You say Brett wasn’t good enough in 2021 and 2022. I say we fell short because of injuries. Brett took a bottom four team and turned them around to play finals. Yeah but….yeah but…………..’that was the list changes’….OHhhhh Ok…"………………so it’s the playing list that got us into finals and winning a final in 2020. It wasn’t Brett? Was it?

Since when did Ross ever take a team from bottom four all the way to finals?

It’s easy to say this coach is better than that coach, but howabout you look at the squads each guy has inherited. The real test is whether Ross can emulate what Brett did. Can Lyon turn this club around and can he lift a squad that seems middle of the road

The real question is what can RTB do with this current Saints list over the next 3-4 years? You can speculate all you like. I’ll support the team, the players, the club and the guys like BJ, Lennie and Banger….I’ll reserve judgement on RTB until 2025

Well said

[saynta]

Sorry…maybe you aren’t a dumbarse. You’re just a loon

[B.M]

Coach is important- but overrated!

If they are the panacea- great coaches would always win

There is plenty of situations where a ‘great’ coach has had poor seasons or lost to a ‘s***’ coach.

I rate Ross highly due to his clear communication skills and ability to explain/analyse a game - and how forthright he is

Brett obviously built good relationships and of great character - but spoke in circles and was found out tactically

GT was a leader/motivator- straight shooter

[Vortex]

Available talent is the most important area.

Highly skilled players who can execute under pressure.

Recruitment strategies and a budget to properly resource reccruitment strategies are as important as who the coach is arguably more important.

Available talent also involves great injury management.

Game plans are all pretty similar amongst the 18 clubs, being able to execute the game plan is the only difference between top 4 and bottom 4...single digit percentage difference though.

[Teflon]

Sorry…maybe you aren’t a dumbarse. You’re just a loon

You two need to get a room …if you could work out how to turn the door handle you’d be set …

[saynta]

Sorry…maybe you aren’t a dumbarse. You’re just a loon

You two need to get a room …if you could work out how to turn the door handle you’d be set …

Teffers attempted a joke.

[Teflon]

I agree with scollop.

We are always speculating whenever we're comparing coaches ... different lists, different years, etc...

I mean the same coach goes from 19-0 to 0-10. It is ridiculous to even compare the same coach with themselves ... it's obviously the list, the recruiters, injuries - other much bigger factors at play.
If the coach can really make all the difference, and if there are phases/versions that they go through (let's go along with the coach myth for a sec)... let's hope RL reverts back to his mark 1 version, and not his final 4 year at Freo and sackable version.

Where RL can make a difference, is in keeping our soft tissue injuries down to a minimum (as he's already demonstrated this when he took over from GT) ... and I liked his recruitment of Misson, etc. He gets the right people on board and places a lot of emphasis in this key area.

Without injuries, or when our injury count was at a minimum, we were an 8-3 side, let's not forget. We are a pretty good team.
And we can be that team again ... and he can be the mark 1 version of himself once again on the back of it (with minimal injuries).

This adulation of coaches is risible ... but RL's a smart operator, I give him that much. St Kilda will do well if we can keep the injuries to a minimum, and we've recruited well the last 2 years, especially.

He's come in at a good time, and he can obviously see the opportunity.

No one (except you and possibly Trollop) are arguing the coach is the only factor in team success?? That’s ludicrous and no one has said that. Who exactly are you arguing or trying to convince on that point?
Anyhoo you do manage to acknowledge that the coach can play a pivotal role is setting up a sude for success - Lyon embarrassed Thomas when he took cause he simply went out and got the best fitness guru in the land…Grant didn’t quite get that and just kept flogging Luke Ball with OP
So coaches CAN influence the teams environment considerably. They can also heavily influence team training standards - it’s obvious under “choose your own off season program Brett” that these standards and expectations had slipped. He admitted that much the following year but it should NEVER happen at AFL. Do you think Clarkson sends them off and says “do what you want fellas…see you fat and rolling in 6 weeks!!” Nup
So a coach has enormous impact here and no one is better at setting what’s required than Lyon - Bassat acknowledged it too when they announced him.
Vort keeps belting the club for sacking coaches ….problem is we have Alan 6 years and Brett 3…..9 years in no man’s land and he’s whinging cause the club turned over some spud coaches ? (I think they shoulda gone wider after Alan…Ratten was a soft choice). While we are acknowledging coaches can’t win without a good list let’s also remember coaches DO have some say in recruiting and player development- they’re not locked in a glass box with no input into these areas. Again I’d argue both Alan and Brett dropped the ball here - Ratten clearly told the board “our window was opening” so it’s no surprise we then went out and topped up with a bunch of other club rejects - some have been good (Crouch) but I’d argue Brad Crouch is a good addition if you’re genuinely top 4 challenging….we were miles off it as we now know so what the **** was Brett telling them????? I suspect anything to keep his job.
Anyway, theyve seen the light. They know the draft is where it’s at fir us with an experienced coa h who will demand standards. Can Lyon spot and support talent??
We are about to find out.
I think a few on here (we know them) might perform a miracle and actually look even more stupid than they are..



Vort keeps telling us we sack coaches…his theory? Let’s sack 42 players!! Go Vort !!

[Teflon]

Sorry…maybe you aren’t a dumbarse. You’re just a loon

You two need to get a room …if you could work out how to turn the door handle you’d be set …

Teffers attempted a joke.

I have you down as daddy in the relationship…

[Teflon]

Available talent is the most important area.

Highly skilled players who can execute under pressure.

Recruitment strategies and a budget to properly resource reccruitment strategies are as important as who the coach is arguably more important.

Available talent also involves great injury management.

Game plans are all pretty similar amongst the 18 clubs, being able to execute the game plan is the only difference between top 4 and bottom 4...single digit percentage difference though.

Very sensible (tad obvious but let’s ignore that)
Head coach has huge impact on recruiting talented, skilful players and in setting who trains the fitness
Thank god we got the Head coach in whose already driving change in those areas after 3 years of cuddles mess
Good call.

[Teflon]

Coach is important- but overrated!

If they are the panacea- great coaches would always win

There is plenty of situations where a ‘great’ coach has had poor seasons or lost to a ‘s***’ coach.

I rate Ross highly due to his clear communication skills and ability to explain/analyse a game - and how forthright he is

Brett obviously built good relationships and of great character - but spoke in circles and was found out tactically

GT was a leader/motivator- straight shooter

Craig McRae Vs Nathan Buckley

Or
In 1 off season did Collingwoods list go from mid range talent to top end ????

I think you’ll find the coaching might’ve had a teeny weeny bit to do with it …

Can he back it up now the game plan is out in the open….sides pick it off ….see LYON’S comment re Pies press game 09 vs 10 (after Ball and Hudgton filled them in).

[Vortex]

Very sensible (tad obvious but let’s ignore that)
Head coach has huge impact on recruiting talented, skilful players and in setting who trains the fitness
Thank god we got the Head coach in whose already driving change in those areas after 3 years of cuddles mess
Good call.

I am curious, you claim Ross is driving change in the area of recruitment and talent acquisition, I haven't heard him outline how he will be driving change in that area, what did I miss? Care to elaborate the details of his plan?

[shanegrambeau]

I agree with scollop.

We are always speculating....

...

... soft tissue injuries..

Without injuries, or when our injury count was at a minimum, we were an 8-3 side, let's not forget. We are a pretty good team.
...

This adulation of coaches is risible ... but RL's a smart operator, I give him that much....

He's come in at a good time, and he can obviously see the opportunity.

Some decent points, although I don't agree with Scollop, because I don't actually know what Scollop thinks, (Keep Ratts?) , so I don't know what to agree with or disagree with.

But we were not that good before the bye.
before I start - it was wonderful to be 8-3, but the talk of us being top 4 was so much hype - ridiculous.
Let's have a look.
And see how the hype started.



We had a good run with injuries and we got Geelong and Richmond at a good time.

R1 Coll L17 (this is the real truth. Both teams fresh and ready to go)
R2 Freo W10 Away Second -best win of the season.?? Great stuff!
R3 Rich W33 Home. (Rich had lost to Carlton and beaten GWS who were crap) Rich were depleted, and then lost Grimes..we ran all over them at the end. It took 'em a month to get going, lost two of the next three
R4 Hawth W69 A glorious smashing - of a weak opponent
R5 Gold Coast W26 Impresssive win
R6 GWS Manuka W16 Just OK...Gws are crap, they had one won game against Golf Coast at this stage

Now it is late April, and we are joyous and we are 5-1. The loss to Collingwood can be overlooked.

Now the cracks start to open

R7 Port Adel L1 Cairns (Say no more)
R8 Melb L38 MCG (Like the Collingwood game..a telling blow)
R9 Geel W10 Best win! Glorious ! Paddy Ryder.. clutch goals!! (Oh how we will miss him)

Now we are back! Sort of still...a few dings in the front quarter panel and a broken window, but we are moving..

R10 Adel W21 away Glory to win Adelaide anytime! Bravo...but Adelaide had won two games...It was fine and good..but not much more
R11 North Melb W53 North were at a dire point. Had won a solitary game, against West Coast ravaged by COVID and full of second and third rate players. They lost three administrators through the week.

So we were 8-3

But it is not as good as it looks

Brilliant wins over Geelong
Great wins over Freo
Good stuff Richmond..our pluck and fitness shone through
Our fitness was on song!

Now we know the rest.

The point being, we weren't 'that good' at all, and the losses to Collingwood and Melbourne should have shown all where we really were.

[B.M]

WTF are you on about Teffers?!


Buckley - a poor coach

In 2018 they were a Dom Sheed kick from the boundary and premiership and Bucks was a premiership coach…. Or was he a great coach in 2018 - and a poor coach 3 years later?!

Last year they won 10 games by under 10 points - They could have easily lost 4 of those and finished below us.

End of the day - they fell short

Was that the coaches fault - or did they run into a better team?!

Chris Scott
10 years of finals all failed attempts - his fault?
Then in 2022 he won - his credit???

Who was more important
Jeremy Cameron
Or
Chris Scott

Because I’ll tell you now, no Cameron - no premiership

[Devilhead]

I agree with scollop.

We are always speculating....

...

... soft tissue injuries..

Without injuries, or when our injury count was at a minimum, we were an 8-3 side, let's not forget. We are a pretty good team.
...

This adulation of coaches is risible ... but RL's a smart operator, I give him that much....

He's come in at a good time, and he can obviously see the opportunity.

Some decent points, although I don't agree with Scollop, because I don't actually know what Scollop thinks, (Keep Ratts?) , so I don't know what to agree with or disagree with.

But we were not that good before the bye.
before I start - it was wonderful to be 8-3, but the talk of us being top 4 was so much hype - ridiculous.
Let's have a look.
And see how the hype started.



We had a good run with injuries and we got Geelong and Richmond at a good time.

R1 Coll L17 (this is the real truth. Both teams fresh and ready to go)
R2 Freo W10 Away Second -best win of the season.?? Great stuff!
R3 Rich W33 Home. (Rich had lost to Carlton and beaten GWS who were crap) Rich were depleted, and then lost Grimes..we ran all over them at the end. It took 'em a month to get going, lost two of the next three
R4 Hawth W69 A glorious smashing - of a weak opponent
R5 Gold Coast W26 Impresssive win
R6 GWS Manuka W16 Just OK...Gws are crap, they had one won game against Golf Coast at this stage

Now it is late April, and we are joyous and we are 5-1. The loss to Collingwood can be overlooked.

Now the cracks start to open

R7 Port Adel L1 Cairns (Say no more)
R8 Melb L38 MCG (Like the Collingwood game..a telling blow)
R9 Geel W10 Best win! Glorious ! Paddy Ryder.. clutch goals!! (Oh how we will miss him)

Now we are back! Sort of still...a few dings in the front quarter panel and a broken window, but we are moving..

R10 Adel W21 away Glory to win Adelaide anytime! Bravo...but Adelaide had won two games...It was fine and good..but not much more
R11 North Melb W53 North were at a dire point. Had won a solitary game, against West Coast ravaged by COVID and full of second and third rate players. They lost three administrators through the week.

So we were 8-3

But it is not as good as it looks

Brilliant wins over Geelong
Great wins over Freo
Good stuff Richmond..our pluck and fitness shone through
Our fitness was on song!

Now we know the rest.

The point being, we weren't 'that good' at all, and the losses to Collingwood and Melbourne should have shown all where we really were.

I dont think you can measure our season on a loss to Collingwood in Round 1 - Melbourne fair enough

What was this year showed to me is that when we were up for the contest we can mix it with the best but our big issue is the mental side of the game and being mature and mentally strong enough to consistently deliver - that said I thought our last 2 games of the season showed plenty of promise against finals sides .... even the 3rd last game against Geelong our first half was very good

Losing Steele also in Round 9 for 6 games was a big blow and he struggled to find match winning form on his return

I think with a change of coaches (with better match day nous), a post season rocket being delivered to a few players and with the youngsters putting pressure on our more established players you are going to see a side that will take a big step on the mental side and belief and we will start to deliver more consistently on some of the promise we saw last season

Here's hoping anyway

[Yorkeys]

I agree with scollop.

We are always speculating....

...

... soft tissue injuries..

Without injuries, or when our injury count was at a minimum, we were an 8-3 side, let's not forget. We are a pretty good team.
...

This adulation of coaches is risible ... but RL's a smart operator, I give him that much....

He's come in at a good time, and he can obviously see the opportunity.

Some decent points, although I don't agree with Scollop, because I don't actually know what Scollop thinks, (Keep Ratts?) , so I don't know what to agree with or disagree with.

But we were not that good before the bye.
before I start - it was wonderful to be 8-3, but the talk of us being top 4 was so much hype - ridiculous.
Let's have a look.
And see how the hype started.



We had a good run with injuries and we got Geelong and Richmond at a good time.

R1 Coll L17 (this is the real truth. Both teams fresh and ready to go)
R2 Freo W10 Away Second -best win of the season.?? Great stuff!
R3 Rich W33 Home. (Rich had lost to Carlton and beaten GWS who were crap) Rich were depleted, and then lost Grimes..we ran all over them at the end. It took 'em a month to get going, lost two of the next three
R4 Hawth W69 A glorious smashing - of a weak opponent
R5 Gold Coast W26 Impresssive win
R6 GWS Manuka W16 Just OK...Gws are crap, they had one won game against Golf Coast at this stage

Now it is late April, and we are joyous and we are 5-1. The loss to Collingwood can be overlooked.

Now the cracks start to open

R7 Port Adel L1 Cairns (Say no more)
R8 Melb L38 MCG (Like the Collingwood game..a telling blow)
R9 Geel W10 Best win! Glorious ! Paddy Ryder.. clutch goals!! (Oh how we will miss him)

Now we are back! Sort of still...a few dings in the front quarter panel and a broken window, but we are moving..

R10 Adel W21 away Glory to win Adelaide anytime! Bravo...but Adelaide had won two games...It was fine and good..but not much more
R11 North Melb W53 North were at a dire point. Had won a solitary game, against West Coast ravaged by COVID and full of second and third rate players. They lost three administrators through the week.

So we were 8-3

But it is not as good as it looks

Brilliant wins over Geelong
Great wins over Freo
Good stuff Richmond..our pluck and fitness shone through
Our fitness was on song!

Now we know the rest.

The point being, we weren't 'that good' at all, and the losses to Collingwood and Melbourne should have shown all where we really were.

I dont think you can measure our season on a loss to Collingwood in Round 1 - Melbourne fair enough

What was this year showed to me is that when we were up for the contest we can mix it with the best but our big issue is the mental side of the game and being mature and mentally strong enough to consistently deliver - that said I thought our last 2 games of the season showed plenty of promise against finals sides .... even the 3rd last game against Geelong our first half was very good

Losing Steele also in Round 9 for 6 games was a big blow and he struggled to find match winning form on his return

I think with a change of coaches (with better match day nous), a post season rocket being delivered to a few players and with the youngsters putting pressure on our more established players you are going to see a side that will take a big step on the mental side and belief and we will start to deliver more consistently on some of the promise we saw last season

Here's hoping anyway

Don't think we were within a bulls roar in regard to class as the '22 top 4 sides.
Even Ratts could not explain the Geelong win. Might still have the gig if he could.
Think if we are to make the '23 finals we have to consistently beat the sides that finished 5 to 8 last year. Otherwise can't see where the extra ladder points are going to come from.
Might take a season for the list to harden up enough to be able to achieve that. We toiled manfully is some games against the good sides but when they knuckled down we folded.
Top 4 sides have several stars that can produce individual brilliance and smarts to get them over the line. We probably only have one, maybe two.

[shanegrambeau]

Yorks & Devil,

Yep, yep, yep!
All good points.

No, we were nowhere near a top 4 side.
We know that.
The media - including Rohan whatshisname - still carry on though, with this 'what happened?' thing. It is also part of the narrative of Ratts resigning (which was a sham IMO, as I've already said)

So as long as we know that the , 'We were going along just fine' is misleading, then no harm done I guess.
I think, at best, we were maintaining a middling ladder kind of team thing and we didn't have a lot of hope in the pipeline with our principle engine room of Steele, Jones, Ross and Crouch..none of whom, despite their talents and achievements look like getting better. Then with promising players Byrnes, Bytel, Highmore running around in he seconds it was disconcerting.

We weren't half bad.
We were about a 8-9-10 side IMO..in the first half of the season.
Then we were a bottom 6 side, before recovering a bit at the end.

But we weren't bad at all, a you point out.
Yes, Steele did struggle to have the same influence.
And Higgo and concussion were good mates again, which negatively affected the season for him.

BUT...
I do have two disagreements.

1) Devil says it 'aint fair to count Round One. I say it is a beautiful sample, because both teams were fresh and set to go. New plans, loads of training, all systems go.

And the result was terribly disappointing.

You can argue that Collingwood were really good, and yes, they were probably better than us, but they had a nice draw and some plucky come-from-behind wins.

2) Our team selections were questionable and our fitness was terrific.

[Yorkeys]

Our general approach to selection was pedestrian, lacked flair and risk reward considerations and has amongst other things cost Ratts. Possibly influenced playing group to lose a bit of enthusiasm as well. Same ol same ol......

We never really recovered from Round 1 - Ratts seemed shell shocked because apparently he hadn't seriously rated possibility of improvement under McCrea - bit dumb.
Could not make moves to stop that first gamer for the Pies that the Dogs cut (Lipinsky). An example of how impotent Ratts was on game days, could not read what was playing out before him.

[Teflon]

Very sensible (tad obvious but let’s ignore that)
Head coach has huge impact on recruiting talented, skilful players and in setting who trains the fitness
Thank god we got the Head coach in whose already driving change in those areas after 3 years of cuddles mess
Good call.

I am curious, you claim Ross is driving change in the area of recruitment and talent acquisition, I haven't heard him outline how he will be driving change in that area, what did I miss? Care to elaborate the details of his plan?

Yes ofcourse I never leave my friends hanging
Ross confided in me that he’s been big behind the scenes for Gags moving on and for a tilt at Cripps or possibly SOS - I be said “Ross..please not SOS..he’s a toss” but not sure he listened
Anyhoo it’s all he said.