Is Lyon mark 2 the right fit for the saints

[shanegrambeau]

You can look at it this way too ....

After Freo made the GF ... and it obviously takes a strong list to do that ... his last 4 years only yielded 33%.

Not good.

It suggests the playing list got him into the GF ... not the other way around.
At the end of the day, Lyon had 4 years to right the ship, but failed miserably.

Richo didn't have a strong list to work with.

That’s 1 way to look at
Others have suggested the list he had at Freo wasn’t as good as Saints yet his uncompromising style lead to a club challenging (within 15 points but for bad kicking) of a flag
After that (line at Saints) the list peaked
The rebuild took too long
Bell came in and ran out patience
Really depends how you want to spin
Vortex already working on how long till he gets sacked and he hasn’t coached a game yet
Funny thing is….I’m yet to hear ANYONE argue we shoulda kept Ratten OR offer a better candidate than Lyon who was available at the time???
Just pathetic Shyte canning of the club for making the hard call in sacking cuddles, bringing in decent assistants, strong head coach and well respected footy boss..,
It’s all about having a bet each way “oh I like Ross…but think the club is stuffed..”
odd fence sitters
I’m in!
Oh and in case anyone forgot ….Richo had 6 years….just let that sink in….

This is it.

I think RTB’s tougher critics like myself are fairly aware of that particular fact.

As you’ve no doubt already heard me express… I’m think the circumstances around him getting the shot are very fishy but it’s really really hard to make a case that he’s not an upgrade on Ratts.

Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons… something like that.

I don’t know if he will be successful or not… but he has enough runs on the board to get the opportunity to show he’s evolved and the reality is that whilst development has been a query for him in the past, the Saints list right now isn’t good enough to challenge without natural improvement/development for the mid tier.

A successful Saints team in 2024 (or whatever) requires guys like Clark, Coffield, Gresh, Jones, Paton, King, Higgins, Wood etc to consistently play like the players we know they can be + some of those developing kids to go from showing promise to great players.

Surely he’d have to know that.

Im not a fan but I think he’s got some talent in the coaching caper and is more than capable of changing it up a bit.

And yes I just can’t bare another candidate that clearly has no clue.

There's a bit in what you say that I align with, definitely something fishy about the appointment, typical St Kilda management circus stuff. I'm a Ross fan so no problem there, he was well suited to the list he had with us last time, he is going to have to reinvent himself to be suited to this current list, millennials and zoomers won't tolerate Ross 1.0 one little bit. He needs to learn how to be a hugger and he needs to be flexible and defier to others for expertise....those attributes don't sound like Ross do they.

All premiership teams have more than a coaching legend and therein lies my greatest skepticism, it's the scaffolding around a coaching legend that StKilda is hopeless at, absolutely terrible at it, as proven over 150 years. The odds aren't in the club's favour to get it right this time but as always we watch and hope things work out this time.

Fatigue has set in with most of the rusted on so it won't take much for things to turn pair shape quickly.

Like yourself I align with part of what you say. With RL, I just can’t fathom that they sacked Ratts after signing him without a replacement lined up. I mean imagine how foolish do we look if he says no and we end up with an inexperienced first timer.

The assistants to me are harder to read.

Harves has done an apprenticeship over 10 years, has consistently been employed and stands up as a quality appointment in his own right.

Enright and Hayes are 1-2 year old assistants that have good raps and I don’t mind either being on the team/recruited.

Goddard is more interesting as this is his first venture into coaching but the suggestion has always been that he’s quite knowledgeable and everyone needs to start somewhere.

There’s a concern that the majority here played under RL and perhaps could be under his thumb or unable to challenge him… but the flip side of that is that there’s also a lot of value in having a team of people that know each other and work well together.
It’s a gamble in some respects but it’s the type of decision that really is driven by the coach and they live and die by the result.

I lean into the logic of what cwrcyn posted earlier… IMO RL needs someone around that’s not entirely under his spell and can stand up to him and demand change when it’s obvious what’s happening isn’t working. Maybe this group of assistants can do that? The perception will be out there though without another established strong/experienced personality in the coaching group.

Contrary to what you’ve said… I’m not entirely sure the whole Lyon 1.0 style not working concern is that valid.

The myth of RL has grown so big over the years so as to encompass the idea that all who played under him liked him and excelled under his tutelage.
That simply has never been the case. Version 1.0 saw a number of players improve drastically after he or they left (Steven, Armitage, Geary, Dempster, McEvoy, Lynch to name a few) with Steven famously saying that Watters said more to him in a month that RL did in his entire reign.

Whilst not overly vocal… a number of players have certainly given off the impression that they disliked RTB… Ball and Hudghton come to mind.

Point that I’m making is that in terms of getting his message across and getting the best out of everyone… RTB will have to continue to do what every other coach has too. That is tailor his approach to suit the needs of the individual player while keeping control of the whole group.

It’s a tough job becomes some need to be pushed, others nurtured but again… you live and die by those results.

I’ve always maintained that RTB 1.0s overvaluing of the value of his role players across 08-10 is what saw guys like Steven and Armitage stagnate whilst the Eddy’s/McQualter/Peake etc played underwhelming games in GFs.

Has he learned that lesson? Who knows

Reiterating what SP says in the post below yours, it's hard not to be cynical, we have 150 years of continuously stuffing up with administration and coaching, and if it's not already obvious, I'm not buying in until I see results, enough of swallowing the spin on false dawns.

The scaffolding around Ross is where success hinges, interestingly Luke Hodge said recently, and before his North appointment, that Clarko succeeded at Hawthorn because there were strong anchors in the club who mentored him, that's the scaffolding around Ross that I have mentioned, from what I can see Ross will only answer to Bassett and clearly Bassett doesn't get down into the weeds much.

Ideally we receive a huge amount of luck and Ross gets off to a great start and builds from there, the alternative will provide the media with a field day.

I like your language there Vort, but I don't think it is easy to be cynical. I think it is easy to be optimistic and delirious. We are all over joyed, and you should be too, or should have, until Max went down. (And what were they doing having physical contests at this stage anyway?) But moving on,

1) There is no Version 1 of Ross, Version 2..etc., in a technical sense, that we can talk usefully about. We just don't know. We can talk about eras loosely.
2) You can't delineate Ross from the assistants and claim who is responsible for a,b,c etc., although it will be rhetoric that RTB and all coaches use with the press - just tactics
3) Similarly, you can't delineate and 'cut off' Ross's influence when he left. Under Watters and even Richo, RTBs influence continued via Joey and Roo, etc. Even GTs too.
4) Our 150 years mean little now in discussions - although it is fun and part of our fan rights. We earnt it, it's our right as suffering fans. But come on, what happened in 1892 doesn't really make a difference to whether the RTB thing will work or not
5) Assistants will be trying to impress RTB too. If RTB doesn't rule the roost, he is not the head coach, simply. Then, they would need to do a revolution. We read about Damian Hardwick changing his ways and being conciliatory and devolving the power or whatever language they use, but he is still the boss.
6) Luck is important, but so is club status. Speaking of Hardwick, Richmond has 14 home-and-away games at the MCG!! If that is not a massive advantage, then what the...??

[Teflon]

100%. In Ross I trust

That is all
Well said.

[Teflon]

Just love this from RTB
Coulda gone down the path of Kennedy when King went down…in the past …would’ve …now? Backs youth in the club given where we are at
He gets it.


Lyon backing Saints to fill King void after considering “left-field” play at retired Eagle


St Kilda coach Ross Lyon has endured a tough start in his return to Moorabbin with star forward Max King ruled out for the start of the season.
Returning to the club for the first time since 2011, Lyon is now without his star forward for the next five months after King underwent a shoulder reconstruction as a result of a training incident last week.
Lyon says the untimely injury was “really disappointing” as the 22-year-old was impressing in his fifth pre-season.
“It was really disappointing, first and foremost for Max and also our supporters,” Lyon told SEN Sportsday.
“I didn’t know much about Max at all really except from the outside.
“But I came in and he really impressed me early, I don’t say that lightly.
“(He showed) the desire to improve and do the work and become what everyone wants to do, become a great player as a part of a great team.
“So, in a short period, he really impressed me.”
As a coach that’s “reluctant” to introduce contact so early in the pre-season, Lyon blamed the injury on a “freak event” in a marking contest as King leaves a big hole in the forward line.
“He went down and as Nick Dal Santo said, ‘How does that happen Ross in your first day back?’, I’m reluctant on the contest work in the pre-season, particularly before Christmas,” Lyon explained.
“It was just one of those freak events in a bit of a marking contest, you wear it and to be honest, it was probably a sign of maturity, I probably would have gone off in the past and been on a witch hunt really.
“But I was able to let it go, spoke about the opportunity to the group and the need for everyone to show their footy character and dig in.”
With their spearhead out for at least the early part of the season, Lyon hopes some of the club’s other forwards step up to fill the void.
“I just see it as there’s an opportunity,” Lyon said.
“Cooper Sharman has come back, improved his running and put weight on so there’s an opportunity for him and Tim Membrey.”
While Lyon says the Saints will look internally to replace King, he admitted that he did consider a suggestion from Kane Cornes that the club should attempt to lure West Coast’s Josh Kennedy out of retirement after the tall forward called time on his 293-game, 723-goal career.
“I liked it, to be honest, I thought it was a bit of left-field thinking and creative,” Lyon said.
“I really did like it and then it’s like, if you break it down even further, he (King) kicked 52 goals for the year, if it’s six games (that he misses) that’s 12 goals and that’s two a week.
“I think we can find two a week, so I did it that way.
“I did like the thinking, I was like, ‘Yeah, I should pick up the phone’.
“But probably where we’re at … we need to develop in our system some young talent and probably find out about a few on our list, to be honest.
“We’ve just got to work through it.”
Lyon’s St Kilda return will officially kick off in Round 1 of the 2023 season when the Saints host Fremantle at Marvel Stadium on March 19.
Sportsday
Sportsday
With their spearhead out for at least the early part of the season, Lyon hopes some of the club’s other forwards step up to fill the void.
“I just see it as there’s an opportunity,” Lyon said.
“Cooper Sharman has come back, improved his running and put weight on so there’s an opportunity for him and Tim Membrey.”
While Lyon says the Saints will look internally to replace King, he admitted that he did consider a suggestion from Kane Cornes that the club should attempt to lure West Coast’s Josh Kennedy out of retirement after the tall forward called time on his 293-game, 723-goal career.
“I liked it, to be honest, I thought it was a bit of left-field thinking and creative,” Lyon said.
“I really did like it and then it’s like, if you break it down even further, he (King) kicked 52 goals for the year, if it’s six games (that he misses) that’s 12 goals and that’s two a week.
“I think we can find two a week, so I did it that way.
“I did like the thinking, I was like, ‘Yeah, I should pick up the phone’.
“But probably where we’re at … we need to develop in our system some young talent and probably find out about a few on our list, to be honest.
“We’ve just got to work through it.”
Lyon’s St Kilda return will officially kick off in Round 1 of the 2023 season when the Saints host Fremantle at Marvel Stadium on March 19.

[The Fireman]

Yep RTB is calm under pressure and thinks outside the box


Loving his rhetoric

[axcellence]

Put it this way, Kennedy isn’t going to get StK to a premiership next year. He will take a development spot away. So, it’s better to play Cooper and see him as a Membrey replacement when he goes. Membrey is close to 30 anyway…

[Vortex]

Put it this way, Kennedy isn’t going to get StK to a premiership next year. He will take a development spot away. So, it’s better to play Cooper and see him as a Membrey replacement when he goes. Membrey is close to 30 anyway…

Based on the games played by Sharman this year it's highly doubtful he will get a game in 2023 as he needs some time at VFL level to develop.

An AFL field is no place for a player to develop that is way off the pace in fact you can ruin a kids confidence if you play him when he's not ready.

Having said that I'm led to believe Ross can turn water into wine so who knows, he could the second coming of Buddy by the time we get to R1.

[Teflon]

Put it this way, Kennedy isn’t going to get StK to a premiership next year. He will take a development spot away. So, it’s better to play Cooper and see him as a Membrey replacement when he goes. Membrey is close to 30 anyway…

Based on the games played by Sharman this year it's highly doubtful he will get a game in 2023 as he needs some time at VFL level to develop.

An AFL field is no place for a player to develop that is way off the pace in fact you can ruin a kids confidence if you play him when he's not ready.

Having said that I'm led to believe Ross can turn water into wine so who knows, he could the second coming of Buddy by the time we get to R1.

And won’t that be funny if he is?
You’ll need to find a whole new line to bait posters with when trolling?
Enjoy the wine.,

[happy feet]

Put it this way, Kennedy isn’t going to get StK to a premiership next year. He will take a development spot away. So, it’s better to play Cooper and see him as a Membrey replacement when he goes. Membrey is close to 30 anyway…

Based on the games played by Sharman this year it's highly doubtful he will get a game in 2023 as he needs some time at VFL level to develop.

An AFL field is no place for a player to develop that is way off the pace in fact you can ruin a kids confidence if you play him when he's not ready.

Having said that I'm led to believe Ross can turn water into wine so who knows, he could the second coming of Buddy by the time we get to R1.

And won’t that be funny if he is?
You’ll need to find a whole new line to bait posters with when trolling?
Enjoy the wine.,

I don’t think Sharman is that far off the pace. Getting some games at AFL level will do him some good hopefully.

Vortex were you around when the Doc was coaching and gave 2 kids a guarantee to play the last six games of the season, with the message no to be frightened to have a go.

Do you know who the 2 players were?

[Vortex]

Put it this way, Kennedy isn’t going to get StK to a premiership next year. He will take a development spot away. So, it’s better to play Cooper and see him as a Membrey replacement when he goes. Membrey is close to 30 anyway…

Based on the games played by Sharman this year it's highly doubtful he will get a game in 2023 as he needs some time at VFL level to develop.

An AFL field is no place for a player to develop that is way off the pace in fact you can ruin a kids confidence if you play him when he's not ready.

Having said that I'm led to believe Ross can turn water into wine so who knows, he could the second coming of Buddy by the time we get to R1.

And won’t that be funny if he is?
You’ll need to find a whole new line to bait posters with when trolling?
Enjoy the wine.,

I don’t think Sharman is that far off the pace. Getting some games at AFL level will do him some good hopefully.

Vortex were you around when the Doc was coaching and gave 2 kids a guarantee to play the last six games of the season, with the message no to be frightened to have a go.

Do you know who the 2 players were?

Tony Lockett and Robert Harvey?

But here's the thing about getting a go at AFL level, the elite level, you have to have something to work with to start with before you are "given" a game, you can't just throw a kid to the wolves.

Talent PLUS effort = AFL grade player, you can't have one without the other so it's hilarious listening to Ross Fanboys like Teffers claim all Ross needs to do to convert a player into a star is "demand" effort. The hysterical carry on is like we've discovered something that no other club has ever thought of.

Ross 1.0 and 2.0 worked because he had incredibly talented lists to begin with so coming in and "demanding" effort was the missing ingredient.

Ross 3.0 will be working with his least talented list, and by a fair margin, so strolling into a club and demanding effort from players without the required talent to become AFL grade is more than likely going to fail.

Hence why we are in a rebuild phase now and the big hit N miss of finding said talent is the hardest thing to achieve within the AFL system, and as Fanboy Teffers rightly points out, a poor club like ours really has only one option and that is the draft and low DPs which means consistently languishing in the bottom 4 to 6.

Emulating a build from the draft similar to the early 2000s list is almost as rare as the Bulldogs 2016 flag, and probably as frequent as Haley's Comet.

[Templar]

Wasn't one of them Rodney?

[happy feet]

Robert Harvey and Nathan Burke (although was it Rod Own?)

[happy feet]

Put it this way, Kennedy isn’t going to get StK to a premiership next year. He will take a development spot away. So, it’s better to play Cooper and see him as a Membrey replacement when he goes. Membrey is close to 30 anyway…

Based on the games played by Sharman this year it's highly doubtful he will get a game in 2023 as he needs some time at VFL level to develop.

An AFL field is no place for a player to develop that is way off the pace in fact you can ruin a kids confidence if you play him when he's not ready.

Having said that I'm led to believe Ross can turn water into wine so who knows, he could the second coming of Buddy by the time we get to R1.

And won’t that be funny if he is?
You’ll need to find a whole new line to bait posters with when trolling?
Enjoy the wine.,

I don’t think Sharman is that far off the pace. Getting some games at AFL level will do him some good hopefully.

Vortex were you around when the Doc was coaching and gave 2 kids a guarantee to play the last six games of the season, with the message no to be frightened to have a go.

Do you know who the 2 players were?

Tony Lockett and Robert Harvey?

But here's the thing about getting a go at AFL level, the elite level, you have to have something to work with to start with before you are "given" a game, you can't just throw a kid to the wolves.

Talent PLUS effort = AFL grade player, you can't have one without the other so it's hilarious listening to Ross Fanboys like Teffers claim all Ross needs to do to convert a player into a star is "demand" effort. The hysterical carry on is like we've discovered something that no other club has ever thought of.

Ross 1.0 and 2.0 worked because he had incredibly talented lists to begin with so coming in and "demanding" effort was the missing ingredient.

Ross 3.0 will be working with his least talented list, and by a fair margin, so strolling into a club and demanding effort from players without the required talent to become AFL grade is more than likely going to fail.

Hence why we are in a rebuild phase now and the big hit N miss of finding said talent is the hardest thing to achieve within the AFL system, and as Fanboy Teffers rightly points out, a poor club like ours really has only one option and that is the draft and low DPs which means consistently languishing in the bottom 4 to 6.

Emulating a build from the draft similar to the early 2000s list is almost as rare as the Bulldogs 2016 flag, and probably as frequent as Haley's Comet.

And with Sharman he has nothing to work with?

[Templar]

Robert Harvey and Nathan Burke (although was it Rod Own?)

Was just musing on the story (as told by Banga) that the Doc used to call him Rodney.

[Vortex]

Put it this way, Kennedy isn’t going to get StK to a premiership next year. He will take a development spot away. So, it’s better to play Cooper and see him as a Membrey replacement when he goes. Membrey is close to 30 anyway…

Based on the games played by Sharman this year it's highly doubtful he will get a game in 2023 as he needs some time at VFL level to develop.

An AFL field is no place for a player to develop that is way off the pace in fact you can ruin a kids confidence if you play him when he's not ready.

Having said that I'm led to believe Ross can turn water into wine so who knows, he could the second coming of Buddy by the time we get to R1.

And won’t that be funny if he is?
You’ll need to find a whole new line to bait posters with when trolling?
Enjoy the wine.,

I don’t think Sharman is that far off the pace. Getting some games at AFL level will do him some good hopefully.

Vortex were you around when the Doc was coaching and gave 2 kids a guarantee to play the last six games of the season, with the message no to be frightened to have a go.

Do you know who the 2 players were?

Tony Lockett and Robert Harvey?

But here's the thing about getting a go at AFL level, the elite level, you have to have something to work with to start with before you are "given" a game, you can't just throw a kid to the wolves.

Talent PLUS effort = AFL grade player, you can't have one without the other so it's hilarious listening to Ross Fanboys like Teffers claim all Ross needs to do to convert a player into a star is "demand" effort. The hysterical carry on is like we've discovered something that no other club has ever thought of.

Ross 1.0 and 2.0 worked because he had incredibly talented lists to begin with so coming in and "demanding" effort was the missing ingredient.

Ross 3.0 will be working with his least talented list, and by a fair margin, so strolling into a club and demanding effort from players without the required talent to become AFL grade is more than likely going to fail.

Hence why we are in a rebuild phase now and the big hit N miss of finding said talent is the hardest thing to achieve within the AFL system, and as Fanboy Teffers rightly points out, a poor club like ours really has only one option and that is the draft and low DPs which means consistently languishing in the bottom 4 to 6.

Emulating a build from the draft similar to the early 2000s list is almost as rare as the Bulldogs 2016 flag, and probably as frequent as Haley's Comet.

And with Sharman he has nothing to work with?

based on the samples size available to-date, no, but as a long term project player he has a 2 year contract to learn the game at VFL level.

[happy feet]

Put it this way, Kennedy isn’t going to get StK to a premiership next year. He will take a development spot away. So, it’s better to play Cooper and see him as a Membrey replacement when he goes. Membrey is close to 30 anyway…

Based on the games played by Sharman this year it's highly doubtful he will get a game in 2023 as he needs some time at VFL level to develop.

An AFL field is no place for a player to develop that is way off the pace in fact you can ruin a kids confidence if you play him when he's not ready.

Having said that I'm led to believe Ross can turn water into wine so who knows, he could the second coming of Buddy by the time we get to R1.

And won’t that be funny if he is?
You’ll need to find a whole new line to bait posters with when trolling?
Enjoy the wine.,

I don’t think Sharman is that far off the pace. Getting some games at AFL level will do him some good hopefully.

Vortex were you around when the Doc was coaching and gave 2 kids a guarantee to play the last six games of the season, with the message no to be frightened to have a go.

Do you know who the 2 players were?

Tony Lockett and Robert Harvey?

But here's the thing about getting a go at AFL level, the elite level, you have to have something to work with to start with before you are "given" a game, you can't just throw a kid to the wolves.

Talent PLUS effort = AFL grade player, you can't have one without the other so it's hilarious listening to Ross Fanboys like Teffers claim all Ross needs to do to convert a player into a star is "demand" effort. The hysterical carry on is like we've discovered something that no other club has ever thought of.

Ross 1.0 and 2.0 worked because he had incredibly talented lists to begin with so coming in and "demanding" effort was the missing ingredient.

Ross 3.0 will be working with his least talented list, and by a fair margin, so strolling into a club and demanding effort from players without the required talent to become AFL grade is more than likely going to fail.

Hence why we are in a rebuild phase now and the big hit N miss of finding said talent is the hardest thing to achieve within the AFL system, and as Fanboy Teffers rightly points out, a poor club like ours really has only one option and that is the draft and low DPs which means consistently languishing in the bottom 4 to 6.

Emulating a build from the draft similar to the early 2000s list is almost as rare as the Bulldogs 2016 flag, and probably as frequent as Haley's Comet.

And with Sharman he has nothing to work with?

based on the samples size available to-date, no, but as a long term project player he has a 2 year contract to learn the game at VFL level.

Well the only way to fin out is to play him. Wasting him in the magoos.

[Vortex]

Put it this way, Kennedy isn’t going to get StK to a premiership next year. He will take a development spot away. So, it’s better to play Cooper and see him as a Membrey replacement when he goes. Membrey is close to 30 anyway…

Based on the games played by Sharman this year it's highly doubtful he will get a game in 2023 as he needs some time at VFL level to develop.

An AFL field is no place for a player to develop that is way off the pace in fact you can ruin a kids confidence if you play him when he's not ready.

Having said that I'm led to believe Ross can turn water into wine so who knows, he could the second coming of Buddy by the time we get to R1.

And won’t that be funny if he is?
You’ll need to find a whole new line to bait posters with when trolling?
Enjoy the wine.,

I don’t think Sharman is that far off the pace. Getting some games at AFL level will do him some good hopefully.

Vortex were you around when the Doc was coaching and gave 2 kids a guarantee to play the last six games of the season, with the message no to be frightened to have a go.

Do you know who the 2 players were?

Tony Lockett and Robert Harvey?

But here's the thing about getting a go at AFL level, the elite level, you have to have something to work with to start with before you are "given" a game, you can't just throw a kid to the wolves.

Talent PLUS effort = AFL grade player, you can't have one without the other so it's hilarious listening to Ross Fanboys like Teffers claim all Ross needs to do to convert a player into a star is "demand" effort. The hysterical carry on is like we've discovered something that no other club has ever thought of.

Ross 1.0 and 2.0 worked because he had incredibly talented lists to begin with so coming in and "demanding" effort was the missing ingredient.

Ross 3.0 will be working with his least talented list, and by a fair margin, so strolling into a club and demanding effort from players without the required talent to become AFL grade is more than likely going to fail.

Hence why we are in a rebuild phase now and the big hit N miss of finding said talent is the hardest thing to achieve within the AFL system, and as Fanboy Teffers rightly points out, a poor club like ours really has only one option and that is the draft and low DPs which means consistently languishing in the bottom 4 to 6.

Emulating a build from the draft similar to the early 2000s list is almost as rare as the Bulldogs 2016 flag, and probably as frequent as Haley's Comet.

And with Sharman he has nothing to work with?

based on the samples size available to-date, no, but as a long term project player he has a 2 year contract to learn the game at VFL level.

Well the only way to fin out is to play him. Wasting him in the magoos.

Noting he was less than impressive at Sandy for most of 2022 and only got a game at AFL level because it was desperate times. He had no place on an AFL field in 2022 but I'll be the first to jump on the bandwagon if he becomes one of those 1 of 100 diamonds in the rough in 2023

[Teflon]

Put it this way, Kennedy isn’t going to get StK to a premiership next year. He will take a development spot away. So, it’s better to play Cooper and see him as a Membrey replacement when he goes. Membrey is close to 30 anyway…

Based on the games played by Sharman this year it's highly doubtful he will get a game in 2023 as he needs some time at VFL level to develop.

An AFL field is no place for a player to develop that is way off the pace in fact you can ruin a kids confidence if you play him when he's not ready.

Having said that I'm led to believe Ross can turn water into wine so who knows, he could the second coming of Buddy by the time we get to R1.

And won’t that be funny if he is?
You’ll need to find a whole new line to bait posters with when trolling?
Enjoy the wine.,

I don’t think Sharman is that far off the pace. Getting some games at AFL level will do him some good hopefully.

Vortex were you around when the Doc was coaching and gave 2 kids a guarantee to play the last six games of the season, with the message no to be frightened to have a go.

Do you know who the 2 players were?

Tony Lockett and Robert Harvey?

But here's the thing about getting a go at AFL level, the elite level, you have to have something to work with to start with before you are "given" a game, you can't just throw a kid to the wolves.

Talent PLUS effort = AFL grade player, you can't have one without the other so it's hilarious listening to Ross Fanboys like Teffers claim all Ross needs to do to convert a player into a star is "demand" effort. The hysterical carry on is like we've discovered something that no other club has ever thought of.

Ross 1.0 and 2.0 worked because he had incredibly talented lists to begin with so coming in and "demanding" effort was the missing ingredient.

Ross 3.0 will be working with his least talented list, and by a fair margin, so strolling into a club and demanding effort from players without the required talent to become AFL grade is more than likely going to fail.

Hence why we are in a rebuild phase now and the big hit N miss of finding said talent is the hardest thing to achieve within the AFL system, and as Fanboy Teffers rightly points out, a poor club like ours really has only one option and that is the draft and low DPs which means consistently languishing in the bottom 4 to 6.

Emulating a build from the draft similar to the early 2000s list is almost as rare as the Bulldogs 2016 flag, and probably as frequent as Haley's Comet.

And with Sharman he has nothing to work with?

based on the samples size available to-date, no, but as a long term project player he has a 2 year contract to learn the game at VFL level.

Well the only way to fin out is to play him. Wasting him in the magoos.

Noting he was less than impressive at Sandy for most of 2022 and only got a game at AFL level because it was desperate times. He had no place on an AFL field in 2022 but I'll be the first to jump on the bandwagon if he becomes one of those 1 of 100 diamonds in the rough in 2023

That’s the spirit
“Hey if it comes good…count me in…otherwise I’ll just keep slagging the kid…”

Your original rant about Ross 2.0 to Happy’s post wasn’t even on topic…
Just bizarre Ross hatred ….I guess haters gonna hate.

[Vortex]

That’s the spirit
“Hey if it comes good…count me in…otherwise I’ll just keep slagging the kid…”

Your original rant about Ross 2.0 to Happy’s post wasn’t even on topic…
Just bizarre Ross hatred ….I guess haters gonna hate.

And lovers are gunna love Ross...we share the same love Teffers

But I'm confused; so it's ok for you to be critical of players like Billings and Membrey but not ok to be critical of other players?

To avoid confusion can you provide a list of who is on your keepers list and who is on your list of players you don't rate and want traded out?

[Teflon]

That’s the spirit
“Hey if it comes good…count me in…otherwise I’ll just keep slagging the kid…”

Your original rant about Ross 2.0 to Happy’s post wasn’t even on topic…
Just bizarre Ross hatred ….I guess haters gonna hate.

And lovers are gunna love Ross...we share the same love Teffers

But I'm confused; so it's ok for you to be critical of players like Billings and Membrey but not ok to be critical of other players?

To avoid confusion can you provide a list of who is on your keepers list and who is on your list of players you don't rate and want traded out?

Again reading and comprehension not a strong suit
I like Tim Membrey - good player on his day, likewise Billings
Doesn’t mean I’m not so attached I wouldn’t have traded them a season or 2 back when they had value and we were going nowhere in need of a major draft re-boot ..,
I find it odd behaviour that you confuse a business decision with hate …on the contrary….I’d have drive Jack to Windy Hill for a decent pick in return…love the fella!!

[B.M]

A season or two back we’d just won a final

And our moneyball tactic was lauded

And we were the big movers

[Vortex]

That’s the spirit
“Hey if it comes good…count me in…otherwise I’ll just keep slagging the kid…”

Your original rant about Ross 2.0 to Happy’s post wasn’t even on topic…
Just bizarre Ross hatred ….I guess haters gonna hate.

And lovers are gunna love Ross...we share the same love Teffers

But I'm confused; so it's ok for you to be critical of players like Billings and Membrey but not ok to be critical of other players?

To avoid confusion can you provide a list of who is on your keepers list and who is on your list of players you don't rate and want traded out?

Again reading and comprehension not a strong suit
I like Tim Membrey - good player on his day, likewise Billings
Doesn’t mean I’m not so attached I wouldn’t have traded them a season or 2 back when they had value and we were going nowhere in need of a major draft re-boot ..,
I find it odd behaviour that you confuse a business decision with hate …on the contrary….I’d have drive Jack to Windy Hill for a decent pick in return…love the fella!!

yeah so serious question, who are your list of players you're not attached to and not attached, by attached I assume you you think they can become premiership players, like Coops, and clearly not attached to Members and Billings, care to expand on these lists, doesn't have to be exhaustive, 4 or 5 on each list.

For the record I think we have only about 8 - 12 players capable of being flag types (not considering this years draft prospects yet until I see how they go at AFL level).

[B.M]

A lot of average players play in premierships

It’s not a measure of individual greatness at all

The best 6 players of any team is better than the bottom 6 of a premiership team.

[Teflon]

A season or two back we’d just won a final

And our moneyball tactic was lauded

And we were the big movers

A season or 2 back we played a Covid shortened year off a soft draw
False dawns declared everywhere and we were going to be world beaters???
What happened oh enlightened one do tell us …perhaps it was all ok under Ratts is that what your implying???
Off the fence old chap time to own a pair..

[Teflon]

That’s the spirit
“Hey if it comes good…count me in…otherwise I’ll just keep slagging the kid…”

Your original rant about Ross 2.0 to Happy’s post wasn’t even on topic…
Just bizarre Ross hatred ….I guess haters gonna hate.

And lovers are gunna love Ross...we share the same love Teffers

But I'm confused; so it's ok for you to be critical of players like Billings and Membrey but not ok to be critical of other players?

To avoid confusion can you provide a list of who is on your keepers list and who is on your list of players you don't rate and want traded out?

Again reading and comprehension not a strong suit
I like Tim Membrey - good player on his day, likewise Billings
Doesn’t mean I’m not so attached I wouldn’t have traded them a season or 2 back when they had value and we were going nowhere in need of a major draft re-boot ..,
I find it odd behaviour that you confuse a business decision with hate …on the contrary….I’d have drive Jack to Windy Hill for a decent pick in return…love the fella!!

yeah so serious question, who are your list of players you're not attached to and not attached, by attached I assume you you think they can become premiership players, like Coops, and clearly not attached to Members and Billings, care to expand on these lists, doesn't have to be exhaustive, 4 or 5 on each list.

For the record I think we have only about 8 - 12 players capable of being flag types (not considering this years draft prospects yet until I see how they go at AFL level).

Oh so now you see my point and acknowledge that’s a sensible way to look at it? That’s ok you don’t have to admit it,.. I can see it in your eyes …

Look I’d love to spend time going through the list, giving you my views on whose in/not in next premiership team etc but you and I know that’s just you loading up for another troll on the board and cheap shot at the club…I mean you and “serious question” don’t really have a strong track record now do you ???
I will give you 1 though - C….. S……n

[saynta]

A lot of average players play in premierships

It’s not a measure of individual greatness at all

The best 6 players of any team is better than the bottom 6 of a premiership team.

That was one of the problems in 2009 and 2010. Our bottom 6 were pretty ordinary and still our genius of a coach wouldn't play Armo, Stevens or Geary.

Subsequent years proved that all three were better than average footballers.