Lyon and his vision of our 2023 game style.

[skeptic]

Personally I’m with BM on this one.

Seems he could have been handy in the trenches when we couldn’t get our hands on the ball in that last quarter

[B.M]

Whatever helps you sleep at night

I’m a realist

We made another fk up

Like we did in the 2014 draft

No one could predict exactly what could have happened

But you could make a pretty decent guess!!!!

Decisions like these - are what makes us s***! That much is obvious!

[saynta]

Is that Luke Ball - who’s tackle numbers were elite?

Yep, but also the Luke Ball described by Ross as needing to improve his spread.

I would think that Collingwood showed the boss that he didn't know his arse from his elbow when it came to Luke Ball.

His groin was better when he was at Collingwood than his final years with us. He was actually good the first half of 2009 with us, then dropped off in the second half of the year as he couldn't train much mid-week as his groin worsened. Ross definitely lost patience with him.

Correct
Factual
Ross didn’t play him second half GF but he WAS NOT the difference
That aside his inability to spread from contest was mentioned ad-nauseam
Tackles??? WTF did that have to do with Lyon not rating Luke Ball??
Nonsense

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Of course he was the f****** difference. Only a fool would deny his imput in the first half.

[saynta]

For someone who couldn’t spread

He got 22 possessions in 60% game time and laid 7 tackles

Remarkable

We’ll you know more than Ross Lyon so I won’t argue with you
Funny how everyone else recalls Lyons issue with Ball but you’re sure that’s BS cause he got 22 possessions…that demonstrates running power alone that number….
Anyhoo

Even the coach admitted that he simply forgot about playing Ball in the last quarter ffs. Nothing to do with any supposed or imagined inability to spread. Stop trying to f****** rewrite history.

Geez, there is some crap posted on this site which we are supposed to swallow as factual. Only problem for the know it alls is some of us aren't that gullible or pig ignorant when it comes to footballing ability which Ball had in bucket loads. Even the filth were quick to realise that.

[saynta]

No one can say what would have happened if Ball had played more in that last quarter.

What followed shows Ball found it untenable to play under Ross. And Ross wasn't all that fussed about that.

Luke's success at Collingwood doesn't necessarily represent vindication either way. Different team environment and possibly Luke took Ross's opinion on board through gritted teeth and made some adjustments.

I saw Luke play some poor games for the Saints during that time, skill errors a plenty at important times.

He's no martyr. Bounced back well and good luck to him. But he wasn't that badly treated.

Yes he was. How the f*** would you like to be sitting on the pine for half a game when the scores are close and you know that you could still be contributing. The players worked their guts out for the year only to be denied at the pointing end of the season due to a coach's f*** up.

Any wonder that Max and Ball were really pissed off and went to Collingwood.

It's a new year dawning and I am prepared to overlook the past but not when ignorant poster start talking crap in an effort to rewrite history and deny previous errors of judgement.

[Teflon]

Seriously

Do you think Ross erred in not playing Ball in the fourth quarter of the 2009 GF?

Ross is obviously a good coach, good coaches fk up

He clearly fkd up

If you don’t know that, you’re either an apologist or clueless?

What I do know
His possession rate versus TOG was the most in the game
His tackle rate vs TOG was also the highest

It was a joke

And his exit was a massive cluster fk

He went to Collingwood for zilch - we got nothing!
Had over 500 possession and 100 tackles in both 2010 & 2011 and finished top 5 in their B&F and won a premiership

Yes but you’ve ignored the original question which alluded to Balls well documented inability to run and spread from a contest.
You’ve either missed that or maybe don’t know as much as you like to make out so you’ve turned it into why didn’t Ross play Ball in the GF???
Not even a discussion

[Teflon]

For someone who couldn’t spread

He got 22 possessions in 60% game time and laid 7 tackles

Remarkable

We’ll you know more than Ross Lyon so I won’t argue with you
Funny how everyone else recalls Lyons issue with Ball but you’re sure that’s BS cause he got 22 possessions…that demonstrates running power alone that number….
Anyhoo

Even the coach admitted that he simply forgot about playing Ball in the last quarter ffs. Nothing to do with any supposed or imagined inability to spread. Stop trying to f****** rewrite history.

Geez, there is some crap posted on this site which we are supposed to swallow as factual. Only problem for the know it alls is some of us aren't that gullible or pig ignorant when it comes to footballing ability which Ball had in bucket loads. Even the filth were quick to realise that.

Pig ignorant or pig stupid I’m unsure what you might be - I could care less.
The discussion in this thread was in reference to Ball’s inability to spread from a contest
I suggest get your head out of your arse and go back and read the issues Lyon had with him at the time
The topic has NOTHING to do with why /why not Ball wasn’t played more in 09 GF
In any event, he **** off to Collingwood and us therefore a filth player
If you love him so much suggest you bugger off over there with him ???

[Teflon]

Is that Luke Ball - who’s tackle numbers were elite?

Yep, but also the Luke Ball described by Ross as needing to improve his spread.

I would think that Collingwood showed the boss that he didn't know his arse from his elbow when it came to Luke Ball.

Just for the pig ignorant above us the ORIGINAL reference to traitor Ball in this thread …..no mention of not playing him second half 09 cause frankly…..who gives a rats arse ….he’s a Collingwood scum bag????
Geezus a lawyer who can’t read….I shouldn’t be surprised..

[Teflon]

Is that Luke Ball - who’s tackle numbers were elite?

Yep, but also the Luke Ball described by Ross as needing to improve his spread.

I would think that Collingwood showed the boss that he didn't know his arse from his elbow when it came to Luke Ball.

His groin was better when he was at Collingwood than his final years with us. He was actually good the first half of 2009 with us, then dropped off in the second half of the year as he couldn't train much mid-week as his groin worsened. Ross definitely lost patience with him.

Thank you
Facts.

[Teflon]

Seriously

Do you think Ross erred in not playing Ball in the fourth quarter of the 2009 GF?

Ross is obviously a good coach, good coaches fk up

He clearly fkd up

If you don’t know that, you’re either an apologist or clueless?

What I do know
His possession rate versus TOG was the most in the game
His tackle rate vs TOG was also the highest

It was a joke

And his exit was a massive cluster fk

He went to Collingwood for zilch - we got nothing!
Had over 500 possession and 100 tackles in both 2010 & 2011 and finished top 5 in their B&F and won a premiership

Once again talking utterly out of your arse - the question of not playing Luke Ball has been addressed by Lyon in the public already - it’s not even up for debate. Why are you bringing illogical dribble the coach himself admits he got it wrong ..but you want to lecture us all on known facts ??? Odd behaviour

Doesn’t change the fact Lyon had issues with Bslls inability to spread from contest and viewed him as too slow in doing. Go do some **** research for a change instead of clogging up the board with inane nonsense.

Oh and for the Ball “lovers” take a read of Lyons views below on Ball/Hudgton and the damage they did by sharing the teams IP

We were THE BEST defensive side in the comp 09….Pies magically improved to overtake us in 10….just by magic…

Luke Balls a Collingwood flog - yep a cheap flag that his crocodile tears at the end of the game pretty much summed how hollow it was.

**********

ROSS Lyon has revealed deep regret for trading Luke Ball from St Kilda to Collingwood at the end of 2009.

In E2 of The Coach with Damian Barrett, Lyon has again opened up with incredible honesty on the big issues which shaped his time as an AFL player and coach.

>> WATCH THE LATEST EDITION OF THE COACH IN THE PLAYER BELOW

Of Ball's departure, Lyon conceded the Saints failed to properly utilise Ball in the second half of the 2009 Grand Final, lost narrowly to Geelong, but also incredibly suggested the Pies' Grand Final success in 2010, against his team, was partly due to Ball's information sharing.


Chris Dawes and Luke Ball with the 2010 premiership cup. Picture: AFL Photos
"He took some IP (intellectual property), with Max Hudghton (as an assistant coach) to help teach the press to Collingwood, and their talent was very strong," Lyon said.

"Clarko (Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson) started that mobile grid and we did a bit of work and turned it into a strong press, and Collingwood hadn't done it very well in 2009, but in 2010, they became good."

Pressed further on what he meant by the transfer of intellectual property, Lyon said: "I could see the St Kilda peoples' works, and Clarko's as well, and they adjusted very quickly and they became a great defensive team as well.

"It was a fine line, wasn't it (the Saints drew with the Pies in the Grand Final of 2010, then got belted in the replay)? They dominated (the replay), they were the best team the whole year."

[B.M]

So you agree

Ross fkd up with Ball in the 09 GF

And then by letting him walk to the team that beat us the following year!

Question
If Luke Ball can’t spread - how the fk can he average over 20ppg and 6 tackles?

He must have been the best stoppage player of all time?!

[Teflon]

Is that Luke Ball - who’s tackle numbers were elite?

Yep, but also the Luke Ball described by Ross as needing to improve his spread.

Thank you
Again THATS the discussion
Not “why didn’t Ross use him 09” or “why did he leave the club”
EVERYONE knows the answers to that ffs except 2 nimrods pretending they’ve uncovered the mysterious truth …
Odd.

[Teflon]

So you agree

Ross fkd up with Ball in the 09 GF

And then by letting him walk to the team that beat us the following year!

Question
If Luke Ball can’t spread - how the fk can he average over 20ppg and 6 tackles?

He must have been the best stoppage player of all time?!

FFS the coach has said it you imbecile he’s on record - what are you arguing about????
Show me where I disagreed?????? Bring up the post???
Are you deliberately thick??
Oh and Is tackling the same as being able to run, carry and spread from a contest??
Is Jack Bytel good at being able to run-spread from contest or does he get his possessions (and tackles) inside???
You’re clearly clueless
And again I ask - but you won’t answer
Riddle me this Batman
What was LYON’S issue with Luke Ball ????

Time to put up or shut up Mr Football ???

[Banger9798]

Ball was on track for Norm Smith by half time...if he'd been played the second half, we would have a second flag.
There's no way he was "forgotten" on the bench, that's just not possible.
That was RTB at his most petty ebb, he didn't like Ball, there was something bizarrely vindictive about it, and it cost us the ultimate prize.

[skeptic]

Ball was on track for Norm Smith by half time...if he'd been played the second half, we would have a second flag.
There's no way he was "forgotten" on the bench, that's just not possible.
That was RTB at his most petty ebb, he didn't like Ball, there was something bizarrely vindictive about it, and it cost us the ultimate prize.

So RTB, all the assistants and the staff on the bench all forgot Ball and whilst they were mixing it up trying to win the game in the last quarter, no one wondered why or thought to give Ball a run…

IMO absolutely no way anything remotely like that is true.

RTB clearly made a tactical call that backfired badly and has since gone on to make excuses about it.

[Mr Magic]

Ball was on track for Norm Smith by half time...if he'd been played the second half, we would have a second flag.
There's no way he was "forgotten" on the bench, that's just not possible.
That was RTB at his most petty ebb, he didn't like Ball, there was something bizarrely vindictive about it, and it cost us the ultimate prize.

So RTB, all the assistants and the staff on the bench all forgot Ball and whilst they were mixing it up trying to win the game in the last quarter, no one wondered why or thought to give Ball a run…

IMO absolutely no way anything remotely like that is true.

RTB clearly made a tactical call that backfired badly and has since gone on to make excuses about it.

IMHO, Lyon and his brains trust made the decision to play Ball exclusively in the first half of that game with the plan to be so far in front by half time that not using Ball for the second half wouldn't make any difference.
It would be interesting to hear what the pre-game instructions given to Ball were?
Was he aware he wouldn't be used in the second half? I may have missed it but I'm not aware of any public statements by Ball about this?
(and it's not like he and his management didn't use every opportunity to kick Lyon and/or St.Kilda in his attempts to get to Collingwood)

Interestingly, despite Ball's 'dominance' in the first half, Geelong chose to hard tag Lenny Hayes with Bartel as they obviously felt he was the more damaging player.

Alas our poor conversion in front of goal meant we were only 6 points up at half time instead of 6 goals and the strategy ultimately failed.

[saynta]

Seriously

Do you think Ross erred in not playing Ball in the fourth quarter of the 2009 GF?

Ross is obviously a good coach, good coaches fk up

He clearly fkd up

If you don’t know that, you’re either an apologist or clueless?

What I do know
His possession rate versus TOG was the most in the game
His tackle rate vs TOG was also the highest

It was a joke

And his exit was a massive cluster fk

He went to Collingwood for zilch - we got nothing!
Had over 500 possession and 100 tackles in both 2010 & 2011 and finished top 5 in their B&F and won a premiership

Once again talking utterly out of your arse - the question of not playing Luke Ball has been addressed by Lyon in the public already - it’s not even up for debate. Why are you bringing illogical dribble the coach himself admits he got it wrong ..but you want to lecture us all on known facts ??? Odd behaviour

Doesn’t change the fact Lyon had issues with Bslls inability to spread from contest and viewed him as too slow in doing. Go do some **** research for a change instead of clogging up the board with inane nonsense.

Oh and for the Ball “lovers” take a read of Lyons views below on Ball/Hudgton and the damage they did by sharing the teams IP

We were THE BEST defensive side in the comp 09….Pies magically improved to overtake us in 10….just by magic…

Luke Balls a Collingwood flog - yep a cheap flag that his crocodile tears at the end of the game pretty much summed how hollow it was.

**********

ROSS Lyon has revealed deep regret for trading Luke Ball from St Kilda to Collingwood at the end of 2009.

In E2 of The Coach with Damian Barrett, Lyon has again opened up with incredible honesty on the big issues which shaped his time as an AFL player and coach.

>> WATCH THE LATEST EDITION OF THE COACH IN THE PLAYER BELOW

Of Ball's departure, Lyon conceded the Saints failed to properly utilise Ball in the second half of the 2009 Grand Final, lost narrowly to Geelong, but also incredibly suggested the Pies' Grand Final success in 2010, against his team, was partly due to Ball's information sharing.


Chris Dawes and Luke Ball with the 2010 premiership cup. Picture: AFL Photos
"He took some IP (intellectual property), with Max Hudghton (as an assistant coach) to help teach the press to Collingwood, and their talent was very strong," Lyon said.

"Clarko (Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson) started that mobile grid and we did a bit of work and turned it into a strong press, and Collingwood hadn't done it very well in 2009, but in 2010, they became good."

Pressed further on what he meant by the transfer of intellectual property, Lyon said: "I could see the St Kilda peoples' works, and Clarko's as well, and they adjusted very quickly and they became a great defensive team as well.

"It was a fine line, wasn't it (the Saints drew with the Pies in the Grand Final of 2010, then got belted in the replay)? They dominated (the replay), they were the best team the whole year."

Only you or you ilk could spin Lyin's f*** ups into something positive. In the comments that you just published Lyin acknowledges what I have always claimed. That he f***ed up with Ball by not playing him after half time and that his treatment of Ball and Max cost us, not one but two flags. Thank you.

Why the f*** he has been welcomed back at Moorabbin with open arm remains, to me anyway, as one of footballs greatest mysteries.

ps. BM has your number.

[The Fireman]

He is welcomed back because he is best available atm in my humble opinion
And we had to make a change

[Yorkeys]

And the majority of Saints supporters are gracious.

[B.M]

I reckon he rues those decisions more than any of us

It was obviously personal- and it clouded his judgement

I’m guessing and other player on the bench - he wouldn’t have ‘forgot’ them

And the trade
Offered Goldsack and a second rounder

Pride more important than benefit

JOKE!!!

[desertsaint]

"A senior monk and a junior monk were traveling together. At one point, they came to a river with a strong current. As the monks were preparing to cross the river, they saw a very young and beautiful woman also attempting to cross. The young woman asked if they could help her cross to the other side.
The two monks glanced at one another because they had taken vows not to touch a woman.
Then, without a word, the older monk picked up the woman, carried her across the river, placed her gently on the other side, and carried on his journey.
The younger monk couldn’t believe what had just happened. After rejoining his companion, he was speechless, and an hour passed without a word between them.
Two more hours passed, then three, finally the younger monk could contain himself any longer, and blurted out “As monks, we are not permitted to touch a woman, how could you then carry that woman on your shoulders?”
The older monk looked at him and replied, “Brother, I set her down on the other side of the river hours ago, why are you still carrying her?”

[saynta]

So you agree

Ross fkd up with Ball in the 09 GF

And then by letting him walk to the team that beat us the following year!

Question
If Luke Ball can’t spread - how the fk can he average over 20ppg and 6 tackles?

He must have been the best stoppage player of all time?!

FFS the coach has said it you imbecile he’s on record - what are you arguing about????
Show me where I disagreed?????? Bring up the post???
Are you deliberately thick??
Oh and Is tackling the same as being able to run, carry and spread from a contest??
Is Jack Bytel good at being able to run-spread from contest or does he get his possessions (and tackles) inside???
You’re clearly clueless
And again I ask - but you won’t answer
Riddle me this Batman
What was LYON’S issue with Luke Ball ????

Time to put up or shut up Mr Football ???

At a guess, he didn't like public schoolboys who were clearly smarter than he was?

[saynta]

He is welcomed back because he is best available atm in my humble opinion
And we had to make a change

question

Yes, we had to make a change. Ratts had fallen out with more than one of his fellow officials.. but was he the best available.

I don't know the answer to that.

[saynta]

And the majority of Saints supporters are gracious.

Not all of us, thankfully.

[B.M]

Getting abbusive Teflon

Does that mean you’re clutching??? Or are you just like that?!