Sydney Stack ?

[Vortex]

It's an old cliche thrown out a lot as an excuse for the spud ruckman, have a look at the elite ruckman in the comp, they didn't take 5 to 7 years to develop.

Max Gawn was drafted in 2009 (pick 34). He didn't establish himself in the Melbourne team until half way through 2015. That's smack bang in the middle of the 5-7 year window!
Dean Cox was a drafted in 2000 as a 19yo rookie and not getting a game until Gardiner got injured. In 2005, he became the dominant ruckman for West Coast. Again in the 5-7 year window.
Grundy established himself as a dominant ruckman in 4 years.
We drafted Marshall as a 22yo mature age rookie after plying his trade in the VFL. It took two years on the list to become a genuine ruckman.

I could go on, but who has the time?

There are a few exceptions...Nic Nat is an athletic freak, but it took him a long time to resemble a natural footballer that could read the play like he can now.

Clearly you don't have the time, if you did you would turn up a few more names that proved they could make it within 2 years.

5 to 7 years on a list to prove you can make it is too long.

There are many that didn't make it.
There are not many ruckmen that proved they could make it inside 2 years.
You want another elite ruckmen that took longer than 2 years? Jarrod Witts.
That's Gawn, Grundy, and Witts...Probably the three best in the league.

In fact, let me turn this around. With the exception of West Coast, name one team whose starting ruckman made it to that position inside 2 years.

keep going, you are almost there.

[Vortex]

The Stack "indiscretions" come across as a beat up. Actually looks like a good kid.

So he got into a dancing one on one brief fist fight with some other kid and got videoed. Virtually a non event. And who knows the actual scenario. Havent seen any reports of drug prob.

(How about the now senior AFL coach caught on video outside the prince of wales when he king hit a staggering bloke from behind. Looked 10 times worse. Club captain at the time no less. All was forgiven by most all and sundry pretty quick. Was a total dog act.)

I can't agree more. We should be aiming to fill every spot and get the list compliment back to pre pandemic numbers and then keep turning it over rapidly and ruthlessly.

Also players like Bytel, he should have already been told this is his last year on the list unless be establishes himself as a premiership type player.

It's now the era of uncompromising brutality.

I’m pretty sure Bytel is more than aware his career is on the line..they left him out of contract until after the trade period then only gave him a year!

It's area where I'd like to see our new ruthlessness and and uncompromising standards applied the hardest, no more having players on the list for 5 to 7 years without proving you are a premiership type. 2 years max for new recruits.

And for players like Stack who have have been in the AFL for multiple years, 12 months maximum and then your cut if you don't make it straight away.

If our strategy for list building is going to be via the draft then 2 years tops and out the door if you can't prove you can play the last 2 weeks of September in that time.

No more project players

What an idiotic statement. I’m glad you have nothing to do with the Club. On the basis of your 2 year rule we can kiss goodbye developing any young ruckmen who typically take longer to develop. On the basis of your rules it’s goodbye Max Heath.

I think you may be suited more to be an Essendon supporter, so off you go, you will not be missed.

It's an old cliche thrown out a lot as an excuse for the spud ruckman, have a look at the elite ruckman in the comp, they didn't take 5 to 7 years to develop.

Name them, time to put up or shut up. Also analyse our list and present us with the names of the players tat would have been cut under your 2 year rule. Look back a few posts, Teffers has done some of the work for you.

Bytel
Byrnes
Heath
Allison
Peris
Connolly

No more project players.

Under my one year rule Sharman and Campbell would be cut

You are not getting off that easy. Name for me the successful rucks that have developed to a premiership quality player in 2 years.

Also while you are at it pleas justify where the replacement players are coming from.

seriously? do you even watch the game, here's a clue on one alone? he was in a premiership team in 2021.

[Killa]

The one question not addressed is who you replace these players with?

You have the availability of Draft Picks, in each round so first round, second round etc etc unless you trade draft picks (how and at what cost?) to obtain multiple picks in whatever round

But even so, if you are ruthless and delist 5 players because of the ruthless criteria, you are going to be relying on later round recruits - so speculation

Versus someone already on the List and where ability and progress are a known

Then you have access to attempts to lure out of contract players as free agents - where the competition is fierce across the 18 Clubs

Then you have delisted players and those seeking further opportunity elsewhere (so a trade needed, a trade which may include draft picks)

So how would this ruthless approach work?

And to what benefit?

And to what detriment?

Both Bytel and Byrnes have shown ability at the level so who exactly do you target to replace them?

A draft pick in the 70’s?

Allison with his physical attributes and Peris with his pace and skills are project players

And why not exactly?

There are 40 odd places on the List, so there is room to accommodate project players and development players

Learning at VFL level

The List is multi faceted - in search of the best 22 to give you a shot come September and on a regular basis

All Clubs delist - and recruit seeking to improve their List, including the improvement of project and development players

That is the competition

Decisions are made accordingly

Not on an arbitrary basis

The first criteria is intent

Then the tools of trade that intent is invested into - leading to delivery

[Killa]

And another question

Go thru the current St Kilda list and identify the players who, in the normal course of events, would contribute to improving the win/loss performance by 2 games a season (and percentage) to deliver finals participation (and improve from there)?

And delist everyone else (noting who has been delisted heading into 2023 and in prior seasons)

So how many are left

And who are those delisted replaced by?

There is far more to List Management than arbitrary - including for Salary Cap purposes not only during the current season but future seasons including the margin to attract free agency players (where discussions with those player managers are held well in advance of the player becoming a free agent in the category afforded free agents

List management is complex with the antecedent imposing then contemporary and future

Then your finishing position (generally) dictates your order in the draft participation

[Vortex]

Bytel - 2018 - 5th year - 16 games
Byrnes - 2019 - 4th year - 28
Heath - 2021 mid - 2.5th year - 0 games
Allison - 2020 3rd year - 0 games
Peris - 2021 - 2nd year - 0 games
Connolly - 2019 - 4th year - 7 games

14.5 years has delivered 51 games at cost of over 1 million dollars.

The question is how much should the investment continue until you cut your losses

Reserve some spots on the list, maybe 4 to 5 for a high turnover rate, hopefully you uncover more Wilke and Hayes prospective types that give a quicker ROI.

[saynta]

Bytel - 2018 - 5th year - 16 games
Byrnes - 2019 - 4th year - 28
Heath - 2021 mid - 2.5th year - 0 games
Allison - 2020 3rd year - 0 games
Peris - 2021 - 2nd year - 0 games
Connolly - 2019 - 4th year - 7 games

14.5 years has delivered 51 games at cost of over 1 million dollars.

The question is how much should the investment continue until you cut your losses

Reserve some spots on the list, maybe 4 to 5 for a high turnover rate, hopefully you uncover more Wilke and Hayes prospective types that give a quicker ROI.

WTF are you talking about. Peris was recruited in the draft same time as Windy and Owens. He is not a f****** two year player.

[happy feet]

The Stack "indiscretions" come across as a beat up. Actually looks like a good kid.

So he got into a dancing one on one brief fist fight with some other kid and got videoed. Virtually a non event. And who knows the actual scenario. Havent seen any reports of drug prob.

(How about the now senior AFL coach caught on video outside the prince of wales when he king hit a staggering bloke from behind. Looked 10 times worse. Club captain at the time no less. All was forgiven by most all and sundry pretty quick. Was a total dog act.)

I can't agree more. We should be aiming to fill every spot and get the list compliment back to pre pandemic numbers and then keep turning it over rapidly and ruthlessly.

Also players like Bytel, he should have already been told this is his last year on the list unless be establishes himself as a premiership type player.

It's now the era of uncompromising brutality.

I’m pretty sure Bytel is more than aware his career is on the line..they left him out of contract until after the trade period then only gave him a year!

It's area where I'd like to see our new ruthlessness and and uncompromising standards applied the hardest, no more having players on the list for 5 to 7 years without proving you are a premiership type. 2 years max for new recruits.

And for players like Stack who have have been in the AFL for multiple years, 12 months maximum and then your cut if you don't make it straight away.

If our strategy for list building is going to be via the draft then 2 years tops and out the door if you can't prove you can play the last 2 weeks of September in that time.

No more project players

What an idiotic statement. I’m glad you have nothing to do with the Club. On the basis of your 2 year rule we can kiss goodbye developing any young ruckmen who typically take longer to develop. On the basis of your rules it’s goodbye Max Heath.

I think you may be suited more to be an Essendon supporter, so off you go, you will not be missed.

It's an old cliche thrown out a lot as an excuse for the spud ruckman, have a look at the elite ruckman in the comp, they didn't take 5 to 7 years to develop.

Name them, time to put up or shut up. Also analyse our list and present us with the names of the players tat would have been cut under your 2 year rule. Look back a few posts, Teffers has done some of the work for you.

Bytel
Byrnes
Heath
Allison
Peris
Connolly

No more project players.

Under my one year rule Sharman and Campbell would be cut

You are not getting off that easy. Name for me the successful rucks that have developed to a premiership quality player in 2 years.

Also while you are at it pleas justify where the replacement players are coming from.

seriously? do you even watch the game, here's a clue on one alone? he was in a premiership team in 2021.

One player, Luke Jackson does not set a trend. Your 2 year rule is idiotic. The trouble is your thought bubbles make it onto here before you really think about them and then you try to justify your position when other posters point out just how wrong you are.

[Vortex]

The Stack "indiscretions" come across as a beat up. Actually looks like a good kid.

So he got into a dancing one on one brief fist fight with some other kid and got videoed. Virtually a non event. And who knows the actual scenario. Havent seen any reports of drug prob.

(How about the now senior AFL coach caught on video outside the prince of wales when he king hit a staggering bloke from behind. Looked 10 times worse. Club captain at the time no less. All was forgiven by most all and sundry pretty quick. Was a total dog act.)

I can't agree more. We should be aiming to fill every spot and get the list compliment back to pre pandemic numbers and then keep turning it over rapidly and ruthlessly.

Also players like Bytel, he should have already been told this is his last year on the list unless be establishes himself as a premiership type player.

It's now the era of uncompromising brutality.

I’m pretty sure Bytel is more than aware his career is on the line..they left him out of contract until after the trade period then only gave him a year!

It's area where I'd like to see our new ruthlessness and and uncompromising standards applied the hardest, no more having players on the list for 5 to 7 years without proving you are a premiership type. 2 years max for new recruits.

And for players like Stack who have have been in the AFL for multiple years, 12 months maximum and then your cut if you don't make it straight away.

If our strategy for list building is going to be via the draft then 2 years tops and out the door if you can't prove you can play the last 2 weeks of September in that time.

No more project players

What an idiotic statement. I’m glad you have nothing to do with the Club. On the basis of your 2 year rule we can kiss goodbye developing any young ruckmen who typically take longer to develop. On the basis of your rules it’s goodbye Max Heath.

I think you may be suited more to be an Essendon supporter, so off you go, you will not be missed.

It's an old cliche thrown out a lot as an excuse for the spud ruckman, have a look at the elite ruckman in the comp, they didn't take 5 to 7 years to develop.

Name them, time to put up or shut up. Also analyse our list and present us with the names of the players tat would have been cut under your 2 year rule. Look back a few posts, Teffers has done some of the work for you.

Bytel
Byrnes
Heath
Allison
Peris
Connolly

No more project players.

Under my one year rule Sharman and Campbell would be cut

You are not getting off that easy. Name for me the successful rucks that have developed to a premiership quality player in 2 years.

Also while you are at it pleas justify where the replacement players are coming from.

seriously? do you even watch the game, here's a clue on one alone? he was in a premiership team in 2021.

One player, Luke Jackson does not set a trend. Your 2 year rule is idiotic. The trouble is your thought bubbles make it onto here before you really think about them and then you try to justify your position when other posters point out just how wrong you are.

What's that saying? Better to not speak and remove all doubt.

[saynta]

The Stack "indiscretions" come across as a beat up. Actually looks like a good kid.

So he got into a dancing one on one brief fist fight with some other kid and got videoed. Virtually a non event. And who knows the actual scenario. Havent seen any reports of drug prob.

(How about the now senior AFL coach caught on video outside the prince of wales when he king hit a staggering bloke from behind. Looked 10 times worse. Club captain at the time no less. All was forgiven by most all and sundry pretty quick. Was a total dog act.)

I can't agree more. We should be aiming to fill every spot and get the list compliment back to pre pandemic numbers and then keep turning it over rapidly and ruthlessly.

Also players like Bytel, he should have already been told this is his last year on the list unless be establishes himself as a premiership type player.

It's now the era of uncompromising brutality.

I’m pretty sure Bytel is more than aware his career is on the line..they left him out of contract until after the trade period then only gave him a year!

It's area where I'd like to see our new ruthlessness and and uncompromising standards applied the hardest, no more having players on the list for 5 to 7 years without proving you are a premiership type. 2 years max for new recruits.

And for players like Stack who have have been in the AFL for multiple years, 12 months maximum and then your cut if you don't make it straight away.

If our strategy for list building is going to be via the draft then 2 years tops and out the door if you can't prove you can play the last 2 weeks of September in that time.

No more project players

What an idiotic statement. I’m glad you have nothing to do with the Club. On the basis of your 2 year rule we can kiss goodbye developing any young ruckmen who typically take longer to develop. On the basis of your rules it’s goodbye Max Heath.

I think you may be suited more to be an Essendon supporter, so off you go, you will not be missed.

It's an old cliche thrown out a lot as an excuse for the spud ruckman, have a look at the elite ruckman in the comp, they didn't take 5 to 7 years to develop.

Name them, time to put up or shut up. Also analyse our list and present us with the names of the players tat would have been cut under your 2 year rule. Look back a few posts, Teffers has done some of the work for you.

Bytel
Byrnes
Heath
Allison
Peris
Connolly

No more project players.

Under my one year rule Sharman and Campbell would be cut

You are not getting off that easy. Name for me the successful rucks that have developed to a premiership quality player in 2 years.

Also while you are at it pleas justify where the replacement players are coming from.

seriously? do you even watch the game, here's a clue on one alone? he was in a premiership team in 2021.

One player, Luke Jackson does not set a trend. Your 2 year rule is idiotic. The trouble is your thought bubbles make it onto here before you really think about them and then you try to justify your position when other posters point out just how wrong you are.

What's that saying? Better to not speak and remove all doubt.

Good advice....for you.

[Saint 58]

Just to take this in another direction …

I hope we sign Stack
Very good footballer

[remboy]

Just to take this in another direction …

I hope we sign Stack
Very good footballer

I agree. Hopefully Auntie Katrina will take him under her wing and he’ll get some stability. He could bring some things that we need re spark, X factor, match winning ability. Would come a lot cheaper than Degoey.

[Ghost Like]

Geezus, no wonder magicians stay on the strip so long. At least now if I ever have to give an example to an imbecile about being sucked into a vortex I can give them this. Thank you.

[Vortex]

Geezus, no wonder magicians stay on the strip so long. At least now if I ever have to give an example to an imbecile about being sucked into a vortex I can give them this. Thank you.

Rupert Murdoch feels the same

[Teflon]

Ah….Vort
Quality cr@p you’ve presented this threads
Out done yourself again!

[Vortex]

Ah….Vort
Quality cr@p you’ve presented this threads
Out done yourself again!

❤

[Teflon]

Ah….Vort
Quality cr@p you’ve presented this threads
Out done yourself again!

❤

That’s it?

[Vortex]

Ah….Vort
Quality cr@p you’ve presented this threads
Out done yourself again!

❤

That’s it?

You want more?....ok

❤❤❤❤❤❤

It is the season for giving after all

[Teflon]

Ah….Vort
Quality cr@p you’ve presented this threads
Out done yourself again!

❤

That’s it?

You want more?....ok

❤❤❤❤❤❤

It is the season for giving after all

I had you down as a taker….

[Impatient Sainter]

If he proves over the break that he has committed to the training programme the club sent him, then he will worth the punt. It was this time of year he found himself imprisoned on covid breaches. It will be tough as there will be a lot of distractions for a young man over the summer period.

I remain sceptical but hopeful!

[CQ SAINT]

Those distractions didn't stop him reaching 2019.
Blatant disregard for Covid Restrictions cost him. Bloody stupid move.
Smashed his confidence, smashed Richmond's, cost him all the work he did to get to where he was and in the end he may have well as been the poor kid he was when his family was passing him around avoiding Child Safety intervention.

Put it behind you Sydney. Get on with the training and put your head down
You can move in with a few boys in Melb, train hard and play in our best 22.

[skeptic]

In scenarios like this, I’ve always felt that the big statement has already been made by the club that cuts player whoever.

It’s now exactly as CQ has posted above…

The onus is on Stack to do the work and if he does… he gets rewarded with opportunity. IMO it should be a one year deal with the offer of a bigger carrot in 12 months if he meets or exceeds expectations… and by that point you’ve got a player that’s been doing the work for over 12 months.

I’ve always liked this type of punt for more of a wayward player with talent as opposed to a struggling player that works hard.

Once upon time there was a guy by the name of Cousins that we could have grabbed for nothing but we didn’t back our culture to do the job…
And, well he certainly would have been handy on the last day of September that year playing ahead of a struggling young defensive forward like Sean Dempster

Fortune favours the brave I say.

[Saints58]

Only having 2 list spots and with stocker, Eyre, stack all being talked about who do we take?
I am not sure if I am right correct me please if I am not but can we put Ming on Long term injury list and therefor be able to ad all three to the list.
Having see Eyre at training last Friday I really think he should be on the list he has a mature body and could fill multiple positions like KPD,KPF, and Ruck something the young guys barring Van Es who should play round 1 could do straight away.

[CQ SAINT]

Only having 2 list spots and with stocker, Eyre, stack all being talked about who do we take?
I am not sure if I am right correct me please if I am not but can we put Ming on Long term injury list and therefor be able to ad all three to the list.
Having see Eyre at training last Friday I really think he should be on the list he has a mature body and could fill multiple positions like KPD,KPF, and Ruck something the young guys barring Van Es who should play round 1 could do straight away.

I think your arguments are solid. But if Stack is fit and focussed, the only way we are likely to take him, his attributes are the ones most needed. There is no doubting his ability.

[bergsone]

Stack for B.Long a like for like ?

[Saints58]

Only having 2 list spots and with stocker, Eyre, stack all being talked about who do we take?
I am not sure if I am right correct me please if I am not but can we put Ming on Long term injury list and therefor be able to ad all three to the list.
Having see Eyre at training last Friday I really think he should be on the list he has a mature body and could fill multiple positions like KPD,KPF, and Ruck something the young guys barring Van Es who should play round 1 could do straight away.

I think your arguments are solid. But if Stack is fit and focussed, the only way we are likely to take him, his attributes are the ones most needed. There is no doubting his ability.

Agreed you make some good points lets hope he is focussed on footy could be a real x factor