Is Lyon mark 2 the right fit for the saints

[happy feet]

33%

What does that mean?

[Vortex]

33%

What does that mean?

It's the win rate that Lyon achieved in his final 4 years at Freo and its also Richo's win rate during his time at our club.

[Yorkeys]

Then isn't it actually Lyon Mark 3.
If you count the getting Freo into a granny period.
So sure, just like Richo, except Richo did not get a side to any final.
Anyway compare away, chalk/cheese; black/white, apples/oranges. Great coach/Not great coach. Both male, both played AFL, both brunette - twins.

[samoht]

You can look at it this way too ....

After Freo made the GF ... and it obviously takes a strong list to do that ... his last 4 years only yielded 33%.

Not good.

It suggests the playing list got him into the GF ... not the other way around.
At the end of the day, Lyon had 4 years to right the ship, but failed miserably.

Richo didn't have a strong list to work with.

[Vortex]

You can look at it this way too ....

After Freo made the GF ... and it obviously takes a strong list to do that ... his last 4 years only yielded 33%.

Not good.

It suggests the playing list got him into the GF ... not the other way around.

Richo didn't have a strong list to work with.

No its not good, so lhow long will the St Kilda faithful give Ross before they demand another coach kill...will it get to 4 years? I think the pressure will come on hard if 2023 doesn't end in finals, best case 2024.

[cwrcyn]

The two mistakes I saw with Lyon during his last two stints were

1. Running his established players into the ground and burning them out

2. Not playing youngsters who clearly had something to offer, which was part of problem 1.


I've no doubt he's a very good mentor and strategist, but he needs strong minded people around who are prepared to demand changes at the selection table and stand firm when managing the load on players so they aren't driven into the ground

[samoht]

We may end up becoming one of the fastest running teams.
I can see where we're aiming to get to with our recruiting.

Picture a team with Butler, King, Hotton, Ross, McKenzie, Van Es, Howard, Paton, Stack, Milera, Hill ... that's 11 players with genuine elite leg speed.

With Hayes, Harvey, Enright and Goddard's input ... Lyon is best served to take a minimalist approach (cut out all the cute stuff) ... and the common mantra should be to encourage the players to use their leg speed and natural playmaking, free-running ability.

To run amok and cause mayhem ... be on the front foot ... be speedy Gonzaleses and score heavily.
Run back quickly to defend when required ... but be mainly focussed on attack .
Tora, Tora, Tora.

[Vortex]

The two mistakes I saw with Lyon during his last two stints were

1. Running his established players into the ground and burning them out

2. Not playing youngsters who clearly had something to offer, which was part of problem 1.


I've no doubt he's a very good mentor and strategist, but he needs strong minded people around who are prepared to demand changes at the selection table and stand firm when managing the load on players so they aren't driven into the ground

This was precisely what he did at Freo too, the whole uncompromising standards management style has worked with list overflowing with a critical mass of elite players in their prime or almost past it , and who know they are running out of time to win a flag so buy into the Lyon method.

You don't have to scratch too hard over at the Freo BF site to find out what issues Lyon has with younger players and rebuilding lists.

He will virtually have to reivent himself, dare I say it he probably has to become a hugger if he's going to connect with millennials.

[Templar]

We may end up becoming one of the fastest running teams.
I can see where we're aiming to get to with our recruiting.

Picture a team with Butler, King, Hotton, Ross, McKenzie, Van Es, Howard, Paton, Stack, Milera, Hill ... that's 11 players with genuine elite leg speed.

Thumbs up. If Lyon is not pushing for Stack over Stocker I would be dumb founded.

[Teflon]

I did a search on Google trying to hear what Jacinda Ardern said and added the term 'arrogant prick'

Got a few hits with Saintsational posts from Teflon
#arrogantprick

Mods …mods…quick mods…being bullied
I googled “Scollop” and got Teflon’s Biatch
So I guess it depends what you’re looking for!!

[Teflon]

33%

What does that mean?

Suspected brain capacity….

Oh and for balance…..

70%

Ask me later …

[Teflon]

You can look at it this way too ....

After Freo made the GF ... and it obviously takes a strong list to do that ... his last 4 years only yielded 33%.

Not good.

It suggests the playing list got him into the GF ... not the other way around.
At the end of the day, Lyon had 4 years to right the ship, but failed miserably.

Richo didn't have a strong list to work with.

That’s 1 way to look at
Others have suggested the list he had at Freo wasn’t as good as Saints yet his uncompromising style lead to a club challenging (within 15 points but for bad kicking) of a flag
After that (line at Saints) the list peaked
The rebuild took too long
Bell came in and ran out patience
Really depends how you want to spin
Vortex already working on how long till he gets sacked and he hasn’t coached a game yet
Funny thing is….I’m yet to hear ANYONE argue we shoulda kept Ratten OR offer a better candidate than Lyon who was available at the time???
Just pathetic Shyte canning of the club for making the hard call in sacking cuddles, bringing in decent assistants, strong head coach and well respected footy boss..,
It’s all about having a bet each way “oh I like Ross…but think the club is stuffed..”
odd fence sitters
I’m in!
Oh and in case anyone forgot ….Richo had 6 years….just let that sink in….

[skeptic]

You can look at it this way too ....

After Freo made the GF ... and it obviously takes a strong list to do that ... his last 4 years only yielded 33%.

Not good.

It suggests the playing list got him into the GF ... not the other way around.
At the end of the day, Lyon had 4 years to right the ship, but failed miserably.

Richo didn't have a strong list to work with.

That’s 1 way to look at
Others have suggested the list he had at Freo wasn’t as good as Saints yet his uncompromising style lead to a club challenging (within 15 points but for bad kicking) of a flag
After that (line at Saints) the list peaked
The rebuild took too long
Bell came in and ran out patience
Really depends how you want to spin
Vortex already working on how long till he gets sacked and he hasn’t coached a game yet
Funny thing is….I’m yet to hear ANYONE argue we shoulda kept Ratten OR offer a better candidate than Lyon who was available at the time???
Just pathetic Shyte canning of the club for making the hard call in sacking cuddles, bringing in decent assistants, strong head coach and well respected footy boss..,
It’s all about having a bet each way “oh I like Ross…but think the club is stuffed..”
odd fence sitters
I’m in!
Oh and in case anyone forgot ….Richo had 6 years….just let that sink in….

This is it.

I think RTB’s tougher critics like myself are fairly aware of that particular fact.

As you’ve no doubt already heard me express… I’m think the circumstances around him getting the shot are very fishy but it’s really really hard to make a case that he’s not an upgrade on Ratts.

Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons… something like that.

I don’t know if he will be successful or not… but he has enough runs on the board to get the opportunity to show he’s evolved and the reality is that whilst development has been a query for him in the past, the Saints list right now isn’t good enough to challenge without natural improvement/development for the mid tier.

A successful Saints team in 2024 (or whatever) requires guys like Clark, Coffield, Gresh, Jones, Paton, King, Higgins, Wood etc to consistently play like the players we know they can be + some of those developing kids to go from showing promise to great players.

Surely he’d have to know that.

Im not a fan but I think he’s got some talent in the coaching caper and is more than capable of changing it up a bit.

And yes I just can’t bare another candidate that clearly has no clue.

[shanegrambeau]

Let's get something out of the way now, and move on.

This nonsense that Lyon got Freo in a Grand Final and then fell into a terrible and inevitable decline.
What bullocks!

They played 9 finals under Lyon across four seasons. Let's not forget.

They were crap in 2016-2018, but they were improving.

[Teflon]

Let's get something out of the way now, and move on.

This nonsense that Lyon got Freo in a Grand Final and then fell into a terrible and inevitable decline.
What bullocks!

They played 9 finals under Lyon across four seasons. Let's not forget.

They were crap in 2016-2018, but they were improving.

It’s true
He had issues 2016-18 no questions but they were improving
2018 when they were destroyed by injuries to key players they won more games than previous year
I left it out as tired of dealing with nuff nuffs who just want a black and white picture that looks like …after his first 4 years at Freo (near 70% win rate) Lyon completely failed…fell in a hole…forget how to coach …
Truth is he was rebuilding- Brayshaw, Serong etc didn’t come from their current coach..
Was it too slow??? maybe but kinda hypocritical for StKilda after 6 years in Richo La La land followed by false dawn Brett…
Truth is I do not care if Lyon doesn’t get us a flag as long as when he walks out we have a footy side that consistently performs anywhere (are relevant and known for this) and youth are coming through (don’t fall for the trap that while challenging you don’t still bring in talent…you must) if someone else steps in and gets a flag after that I’m ok
Abs maybe this is Lyons to put to bed once and for all the key question over his coaching: can he build a side instead of having one handed to him??
I think a few might be surprised that he can

[samoht]

So we need to take into account luck with injuries and the playing list and where it is at development-wise.
On this we can all agree.

The same courtesy should be extended to all coaches - we were 8-3 this year under BR until the injuries became too much.

In a tight competition - injuries are a massive factor and determinant on which side of the win/loss ledger you are on/end up on.

(One thing that still baffles me is how a team goes from a strong GF showing one year to a 0-10 start the next - whoever the coach in charge may be. How do you fall off the cliff like that?).

Anyway, we did need a massive shake up ... and I'm happy to have Lyon on board with Hayes, Harvey and Goddard actively involved - our recruiting this year (and last year) has improved out of sight. We will be one of the quickest running sides in the competition - and we have added playmakers - Stack will be a great recruit.

[Vortex]

You can look at it this way too ....

After Freo made the GF ... and it obviously takes a strong list to do that ... his last 4 years only yielded 33%.

Not good.

It suggests the playing list got him into the GF ... not the other way around.
At the end of the day, Lyon had 4 years to right the ship, but failed miserably.

Richo didn't have a strong list to work with.

That’s 1 way to look at
Others have suggested the list he had at Freo wasn’t as good as Saints yet his uncompromising style lead to a club challenging (within 15 points but for bad kicking) of a flag
After that (line at Saints) the list peaked
The rebuild took too long
Bell came in and ran out patience
Really depends how you want to spin
Vortex already working on how long till he gets sacked and he hasn’t coached a game yet
Funny thing is….I’m yet to hear ANYONE argue we shoulda kept Ratten OR offer a better candidate than Lyon who was available at the time???
Just pathetic Shyte canning of the club for making the hard call in sacking cuddles, bringing in decent assistants, strong head coach and well respected footy boss..,
It’s all about having a bet each way “oh I like Ross…but think the club is stuffed..”
odd fence sitters
I’m in!
Oh and in case anyone forgot ….Richo had 6 years….just let that sink in….

This is it.

I think RTB’s tougher critics like myself are fairly aware of that particular fact.

As you’ve no doubt already heard me express… I’m think the circumstances around him getting the shot are very fishy but it’s really really hard to make a case that he’s not an upgrade on Ratts.

Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons… something like that.

I don’t know if he will be successful or not… but he has enough runs on the board to get the opportunity to show he’s evolved and the reality is that whilst development has been a query for him in the past, the Saints list right now isn’t good enough to challenge without natural improvement/development for the mid tier.

A successful Saints team in 2024 (or whatever) requires guys like Clark, Coffield, Gresh, Jones, Paton, King, Higgins, Wood etc to consistently play like the players we know they can be + some of those developing kids to go from showing promise to great players.

Surely he’d have to know that.

Im not a fan but I think he’s got some talent in the coaching caper and is more than capable of changing it up a bit.

And yes I just can’t bare another candidate that clearly has no clue.

There's a bit in what you say that I align with, definitely something fishy about the appointment, typical St Kilda management circus stuff. I'm a Ross fan so no problem there, he was well suited to the list he had with us last time, he is going to have to reinvent himself to be suited to this current list, millennials and zoomers won't tolerate Ross 1.0 one little bit. He needs to learn how to be a hugger and he needs to be flexible and defier to others for expertise....those attributes don't sound like Ross do they.

All premiership teams have more than a coaching legend and therein lies my greatest skepticism, it's the scaffolding around a coaching legend that StKilda is hopeless at, absolutely terrible at it, as proven over 150 years. The odds aren't in the club's favour to get it right this time but as always we watch and hope things work out this time.

Fatigue has set in with most of the rusted on so it won't take much for things to turn pair shape quickly.

[saynta]

You can look at it this way too ....

After Freo made the GF ... and it obviously takes a strong list to do that ... his last 4 years only yielded 33%.

Not good.

It suggests the playing list got him into the GF ... not the other way around.
At the end of the day, Lyon had 4 years to right the ship, but failed miserably.

Richo didn't have a strong list to work with.

That’s 1 way to look at
Others have suggested the list he had at Freo wasn’t as good as Saints yet his uncompromising style lead to a club challenging (within 15 points but for bad kicking) of a flag
After that (line at Saints) the list peaked
The rebuild took too long
Bell came in and ran out patience
Really depends how you want to spin
Vortex already working on how long till he gets sacked and he hasn’t coached a game yet
Funny thing is….I’m yet to hear ANYONE argue we shoulda kept Ratten OR offer a better candidate than Lyon who was available at the time???
Just pathetic Shyte canning of the club for making the hard call in sacking cuddles, bringing in decent assistants, strong head coach and well respected footy boss..,
It’s all about having a bet each way “oh I like Ross…but think the club is stuffed..”
odd fence sitters
I’m in!
Oh and in case anyone forgot ….Richo had 6 years….just let that sink in….

This is it.

I think RTB’s tougher critics like myself are fairly aware of that particular fact.

As you’ve no doubt already heard me express… I’m think the circumstances around him getting the shot are very fishy but it’s really really hard to make a case that he’s not an upgrade on Ratts.

Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons… something like that.

I don’t know if he will be successful or not… but he has enough runs on the board to get the opportunity to show he’s evolved and the reality is that whilst development has been a query for him in the past, the Saints list right now isn’t good enough to challenge without natural improvement/development for the mid tier.

A successful Saints team in 2024 (or whatever) requires guys like Clark, Coffield, Gresh, Jones, Paton, King, Higgins, Wood etc to consistently play like the players we know they can be + some of those developing kids to go from showing promise to great players.

Surely he’d have to know that.

Im not a fan but I think he’s got some talent in the coaching caper and is more than capable of changing it up a bit.

And yes I just can’t bare another candidate that clearly has no clue.

There's a bit in what you say that I align with, definitely something fishy about the appointment, typical St Kilda management circus stuff. I'm a Ross fan so no problem there, he was well suited to the list he had with us last time, he is going to have to reinvent himself to be suited to this current list, millennials and zoomers won't tolerate Ross 1.0 one little bit. He needs to learn how to be a hugger and he needs to be flexible and defier to others for expertise....those attributes don't sound like Ross do they.

All premiership teams have more than a coaching legend and therein lies my greatest skepticism, it's the scaffolding around a coaching legend that StKilda is hopeless at, absolutely terrible at it, as proven over 150 years. The odds aren't in the club's favour to get it right this time but as always we watch and hope things work out this time.

Fatigue has set in with most of the rusted on so it won't take much for things to turn pair shape quickly.

As a negative deflating post this one is up with your best. Keep up the good work.

You certainly love to bag the club, its coaching staff and last but not least, the players.

[skeptic]

You can look at it this way too ....

After Freo made the GF ... and it obviously takes a strong list to do that ... his last 4 years only yielded 33%.

Not good.

It suggests the playing list got him into the GF ... not the other way around.
At the end of the day, Lyon had 4 years to right the ship, but failed miserably.

Richo didn't have a strong list to work with.

That’s 1 way to look at
Others have suggested the list he had at Freo wasn’t as good as Saints yet his uncompromising style lead to a club challenging (within 15 points but for bad kicking) of a flag
After that (line at Saints) the list peaked
The rebuild took too long
Bell came in and ran out patience
Really depends how you want to spin
Vortex already working on how long till he gets sacked and he hasn’t coached a game yet
Funny thing is….I’m yet to hear ANYONE argue we shoulda kept Ratten OR offer a better candidate than Lyon who was available at the time???
Just pathetic Shyte canning of the club for making the hard call in sacking cuddles, bringing in decent assistants, strong head coach and well respected footy boss..,
It’s all about having a bet each way “oh I like Ross…but think the club is stuffed..”
odd fence sitters
I’m in!
Oh and in case anyone forgot ….Richo had 6 years….just let that sink in….

This is it.

I think RTB’s tougher critics like myself are fairly aware of that particular fact.

As you’ve no doubt already heard me express… I’m think the circumstances around him getting the shot are very fishy but it’s really really hard to make a case that he’s not an upgrade on Ratts.

Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons… something like that.

I don’t know if he will be successful or not… but he has enough runs on the board to get the opportunity to show he’s evolved and the reality is that whilst development has been a query for him in the past, the Saints list right now isn’t good enough to challenge without natural improvement/development for the mid tier.

A successful Saints team in 2024 (or whatever) requires guys like Clark, Coffield, Gresh, Jones, Paton, King, Higgins, Wood etc to consistently play like the players we know they can be + some of those developing kids to go from showing promise to great players.

Surely he’d have to know that.

Im not a fan but I think he’s got some talent in the coaching caper and is more than capable of changing it up a bit.

And yes I just can’t bare another candidate that clearly has no clue.

There's a bit in what you say that I align with, definitely something fishy about the appointment, typical St Kilda management circus stuff. I'm a Ross fan so no problem there, he was well suited to the list he had with us last time, he is going to have to reinvent himself to be suited to this current list, millennials and zoomers won't tolerate Ross 1.0 one little bit. He needs to learn how to be a hugger and he needs to be flexible and defier to others for expertise....those attributes don't sound like Ross do they.

All premiership teams have more than a coaching legend and therein lies my greatest skepticism, it's the scaffolding around a coaching legend that StKilda is hopeless at, absolutely terrible at it, as proven over 150 years. The odds aren't in the club's favour to get it right this time but as always we watch and hope things work out this time.

Fatigue has set in with most of the rusted on so it won't take much for things to turn pair shape quickly.

Like yourself I align with part of what you say. With RL, I just can’t fathom that they sacked Ratts after signing him without a replacement lined up. I mean imagine how foolish do we look if he says no and we end up with an inexperienced first timer.

The assistants to me are harder to read.

Harves has done an apprenticeship over 10 years, has consistently been employed and stands up as a quality appointment in his own right.

Enright and Hayes are 1-2 year old assistants that have good raps and I don’t mind either being on the team/recruited.

Goddard is more interesting as this is his first venture into coaching but the suggestion has always been that he’s quite knowledgeable and everyone needs to start somewhere.

There’s a concern that the majority here played under RL and perhaps could be under his thumb or unable to challenge him… but the flip side of that is that there’s also a lot of value in having a team of people that know each other and work well together.
It’s a gamble in some respects but it’s the type of decision that really is driven by the coach and they live and die by the result.

I lean into the logic of what cwrcyn posted earlier… IMO RL needs someone around that’s not entirely under his spell and can stand up to him and demand change when it’s obvious what’s happening isn’t working. Maybe this group of assistants can do that? The perception will be out there though without another established strong/experienced personality in the coaching group.

Contrary to what you’ve said… I’m not entirely sure the whole Lyon 1.0 style not working concern is that valid.

The myth of RL has grown so big over the years so as to encompass the idea that all who played under him liked him and excelled under his tutelage.
That simply has never been the case. Version 1.0 saw a number of players improve drastically after he or they left (Steven, Armitage, Geary, Dempster, McEvoy, Lynch to name a few) with Steven famously saying that Watters said more to him in a month that RL did in his entire reign.

Whilst not overly vocal… a number of players have certainly given off the impression that they disliked RTB… Ball and Hudghton come to mind.

Point that I’m making is that in terms of getting his message across and getting the best out of everyone… RTB will have to continue to do what every other coach has too. That is tailor his approach to suit the needs of the individual player while keeping control of the whole group.

It’s a tough job becomes some need to be pushed, others nurtured but again… you live and die by those results.

I’ve always maintained that RTB 1.0s overvaluing of the value of his role players across 08-10 is what saw guys like Steven and Armitage stagnate whilst the Eddy’s/McQualter/Peake etc played underwhelming games in GFs.

Has he learned that lesson? Who knows

[SaintPav]

In his radio interview the other day, RTB outlined the process behind developing the game plan. He made it very clear that it was the assistant coaches who have put it together.

Now the cynic in me says that if it fails, he might turn around and say well it wasn’t me who put the game plan together.

It’s hard not to be cynical.

[Vortex]

You can look at it this way too ....

After Freo made the GF ... and it obviously takes a strong list to do that ... his last 4 years only yielded 33%.

Not good.

It suggests the playing list got him into the GF ... not the other way around.
At the end of the day, Lyon had 4 years to right the ship, but failed miserably.

Richo didn't have a strong list to work with.

That’s 1 way to look at
Others have suggested the list he had at Freo wasn’t as good as Saints yet his uncompromising style lead to a club challenging (within 15 points but for bad kicking) of a flag
After that (line at Saints) the list peaked
The rebuild took too long
Bell came in and ran out patience
Really depends how you want to spin
Vortex already working on how long till he gets sacked and he hasn’t coached a game yet
Funny thing is….I’m yet to hear ANYONE argue we shoulda kept Ratten OR offer a better candidate than Lyon who was available at the time???
Just pathetic Shyte canning of the club for making the hard call in sacking cuddles, bringing in decent assistants, strong head coach and well respected footy boss..,
It’s all about having a bet each way “oh I like Ross…but think the club is stuffed..”
odd fence sitters
I’m in!
Oh and in case anyone forgot ….Richo had 6 years….just let that sink in….

This is it.

I think RTB’s tougher critics like myself are fairly aware of that particular fact.

As you’ve no doubt already heard me express… I’m think the circumstances around him getting the shot are very fishy but it’s really really hard to make a case that he’s not an upgrade on Ratts.

Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons… something like that.

I don’t know if he will be successful or not… but he has enough runs on the board to get the opportunity to show he’s evolved and the reality is that whilst development has been a query for him in the past, the Saints list right now isn’t good enough to challenge without natural improvement/development for the mid tier.

A successful Saints team in 2024 (or whatever) requires guys like Clark, Coffield, Gresh, Jones, Paton, King, Higgins, Wood etc to consistently play like the players we know they can be + some of those developing kids to go from showing promise to great players.

Surely he’d have to know that.

Im not a fan but I think he’s got some talent in the coaching caper and is more than capable of changing it up a bit.

And yes I just can’t bare another candidate that clearly has no clue.

There's a bit in what you say that I align with, definitely something fishy about the appointment, typical St Kilda management circus stuff. I'm a Ross fan so no problem there, he was well suited to the list he had with us last time, he is going to have to reinvent himself to be suited to this current list, millennials and zoomers won't tolerate Ross 1.0 one little bit. He needs to learn how to be a hugger and he needs to be flexible and defier to others for expertise....those attributes don't sound like Ross do they.

All premiership teams have more than a coaching legend and therein lies my greatest skepticism, it's the scaffolding around a coaching legend that StKilda is hopeless at, absolutely terrible at it, as proven over 150 years. The odds aren't in the club's favour to get it right this time but as always we watch and hope things work out this time.

Fatigue has set in with most of the rusted on so it won't take much for things to turn pair shape quickly.

Like yourself I align with part of what you say. With RL, I just can’t fathom that they sacked Ratts after signing him without a replacement lined up. I mean imagine how foolish do we look if he says no and we end up with an inexperienced first timer.

The assistants to me are harder to read.

Harves has done an apprenticeship over 10 years, has consistently been employed and stands up as a quality appointment in his own right.

Enright and Hayes are 1-2 year old assistants that have good raps and I don’t mind either being on the team/recruited.

Goddard is more interesting as this is his first venture into coaching but the suggestion has always been that he’s quite knowledgeable and everyone needs to start somewhere.

There’s a concern that the majority here played under RL and perhaps could be under his thumb or unable to challenge him… but the flip side of that is that there’s also a lot of value in having a team of people that know each other and work well together.
It’s a gamble in some respects but it’s the type of decision that really is driven by the coach and they live and die by the result.

I lean into the logic of what cwrcyn posted earlier… IMO RL needs someone around that’s not entirely under his spell and can stand up to him and demand change when it’s obvious what’s happening isn’t working. Maybe this group of assistants can do that? The perception will be out there though without another established strong/experienced personality in the coaching group.

Contrary to what you’ve said… I’m not entirely sure the whole Lyon 1.0 style not working concern is that valid.

The myth of RL has grown so big over the years so as to encompass the idea that all who played under him liked him and excelled under his tutelage.
That simply has never been the case. Version 1.0 saw a number of players improve drastically after he or they left (Steven, Armitage, Geary, Dempster, McEvoy, Lynch to name a few) with Steven famously saying that Watters said more to him in a month that RL did in his entire reign.

Whilst not overly vocal… a number of players have certainly given off the impression that they disliked RTB… Ball and Hudghton come to mind.

Point that I’m making is that in terms of getting his message across and getting the best out of everyone… RTB will have to continue to do what every other coach has too. That is tailor his approach to suit the needs of the individual player while keeping control of the whole group.

It’s a tough job becomes some need to be pushed, others nurtured but again… you live and die by those results.

I’ve always maintained that RTB 1.0s overvaluing of the value of his role players across 08-10 is what saw guys like Steven and Armitage stagnate whilst the Eddy’s/McQualter/Peake etc played underwhelming games in GFs.

Has he learned that lesson? Who knows

Reiterating what SP says in the post below yours, it's hard not to be cynical, we have 150 years of continuously stuffing up with administration and coaching, and if it's not already obvious, I'm not buying in until I see results, enough of swallowing the spin on false dawns.

The scaffolding around Ross is where success hinges, interestingly Luke Hodge said recently, and before his North appointment, that Clarko succeeded at Hawthorn because there were strong anchors in the club who mentored him, that's the scaffolding around Ross that I have mentioned, from what I can see Ross will only answer to Bassett and clearly Bassett doesn't get down into the weeds much.

Ideally we receive a huge amount of luck and Ross gets off to a great start and builds from there, the alternative will provide the media with a field day.

[saynta]

In his radio interview the other day, RTB outlined the process behind developing the game plan. He made it very clear that it was the assistant coaches who have put it together.

Now the cynic in me says that if it fails, he might turn around and say well it wasn’t me who put the game plan together.

It’s hard not to be cynical.

I have just read Lenny's book again. A f****** good read. In it he maintained that Banger would make an excellent senior coach one day and I much prefer his opinion on banger to any poster on here. Additionally, in the forward to the same book, our current coach states that Lenny would succeed at anything he undertook after finishing playing.

BJ coached kids to a premiership last year so he does know what it entails, at least practically. All three are former captains of their respective clubs and champions to boot. All three love the saints. Everyone only has good things to say about Enright.

We have also brought other experienced football people into the club.

I believe we are on the right track after a very disappointing second half of last year where our coaching staff were barely talking to one another. The situation became unworkable.

I'm told that Ratts was a lovely guy but accepted mediocrity in both attitude and performance. It was obvious to the board that we weren’t going anywhere and changes had to be made.

They have been and I for one am satisfied and looking forward to 2023.

Pisses me off to read some of the highly speculative crap posted on this forum by people who , lets face it, are not in the same league as our coaches.

[The Fireman]

100%. In Ross I trust

[Moods]

In his radio interview the other day, RTB outlined the process behind developing the game plan. He made it very clear that it was the assistant coaches who have put it together.

Now the cynic in me says that if it fails, he might turn around and say well it wasn’t me who put the game plan together.

It’s hard not to be cynical.

I have just read Lenny's book again. A f****** good read. In it he maintained that Banger would make an excellent senior coach one day and I much prefer his opinion on banger to any poster on here. Additionally, in the forward to the same book, our current coach states that Lenny would succeed at anything he undertook after finishing playing.

BJ coached kids to a premiership last year so he does know what it entails, at least practically. All three are former captains of their respective clubs and champions to boot. All three love the saints. Everyone only has good things to say about Enright.

We have also brought other experienced football people into the club.

I believe we re on the right track after a very disappointing second half of last year where our coaching staff were barely talking to one another. The situation became unworkable.

I'm told that Ratts was a lovely guy but accepted mediocrity in both attitude and performance. It was obvious to the board that we weren’t going anywhere and changes had to be made.

They have been and I for one am satisfied and looking forward to 2023.

Pisses me off to read some of the highly speculative crap posted on this forum by people who , lets face it, are not in the same league as our coaches.

I too have just read what Ross has said about the game plan. I love the fact that he trusts his assistant coaches and has given them their head. All three (Bangar, Lenny and Corey) are very experienced coaches and all champions in their own right. Ross is making all the right noises about next year and I for one am as excited about next year as I have been for a very long time. Not because I think we're going to win a flag, but because we finally seem to be on the right track.

Ross as coach, makes the decisions. If the gameplan turns out to be pooh (which I highly doubt) then no board in their right mind would accept the excuse that, 'I didn't come up with it, it was the assistant coaches.'

Agree with everything you have said saynta

[SaintPav]

In his radio interview the other day, RTB outlined the process behind developing the game plan. He made it very clear that it was the assistant coaches who have put it together.

Now the cynic in me says that if it fails, he might turn around and say well it wasn’t me who put the game plan together.

It’s hard not to be cynical.

I have just read Lenny's book again. A f****** good read. In it he maintained that Banger would make an excellent senior coach one day and I much prefer his opinion on banger to any poster on here. Additionally, in the forward to the same book, our current coach states that Lenny would succeed at anything he undertook after finishing playing.

BJ coached kids to a premiership last year so he does know what it entails, at least practically. All three are former captains of their respective clubs and champions to boot. All three love the saints. Everyone only has good things to say about Enright.

We have also brought other experienced football people into the club.

I believe we re on the right track after a very disappointing second half of last year where our coaching staff were barely talking to one another. The situation became unworkable.

I'm told that Ratts was a lovely guy but accepted mediocrity in both attitude and performance. It was obvious to the board that we weren’t going anywhere and changes had to be made.

They have been and I for one am satisfied and looking forward to 2023.

Pisses me off to read some of the highly speculative crap posted on this forum by people who , lets face it, are not in the same league as our coaches.

I hope so.

I'm rooting for them.