Jade Gresham

[Gershwin]

Is it time to take him out of the midfield?
I get the feeling that his body just can’t cope with the rigours of a role which requires stamina and endurance.

Playing as a permanent small forward showcases his talent and eye for a goal. IMO he is better than Higgins and Butler.

At 25 he should be at his peak and needs to play consistently and not break down. We have others that can play in the middle and are likely to add more in this draft.

[B.M]

Why can’t he play a mixture of both?

[Toy Saint]

Back in the day the 2nd rover usually played in the forward pocket and swapped with the 1st rover when he needed a rest. Gresham has demonstrated impact in the middle and also in front of goal, but for whatever reason his body or fitness doesn't suit a full time midfield role.

When we recruited Higgins I had the impression he was keen to spend more time in the midfield, but alas that hasn't happened. Pity, as I thought Gresham and Higgins could both rotate through the middle and forward pocket.

Ideally I'd also like to see Gresham play mostly forward with a few impact bursts in the middle.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Clearly needs to spend more time in the forward pocket, if not most of his time. Body simply isn't equipped for the rigours of a full season on the ball. He's also a handy goal sneak.

Hopefully Ross makes the move. Question is, who makes way for him? Higgins or Butler? Well, Butler has already been spending a lot of time up the field, with dubious results. But he's had some success with his tackling so maybe Ross will convert him into a McQualter-like role player.

[Vortex]

For me Gresh symbolises the big issue with our list, overrated with sub par skills, specifically in Greshes case his kicking.

Definitely not a midfielder capable of top four finals performances.

[Saintmike65]

Surely both Gresham and Sinclair can go through the midfield for 5-10 minutes a quarter.
They add a different mix..add Windhager and Owens, then we might start to get somewhere.
Unfortunately Ratten lacked flexibility with his onball rotating!
Steele resting forward more often should also be considered.

[whiskers3614]

Breaking down could have more to do with lifestyle choices than position played. Was a worthy rival to Hannabery in that sphere according to one senior teammate!

[mad saint guy]

Should be a forward who has occasional bursts through the middle when we want to mix things up. Has the ability to be an AA small forward or a solid midfielder.

My preferred round one lineup

B: Paton, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Coffield, Battle, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Billings
HF: Higgins, Hayes, Owens
F: Gresham, King, Membrey

Foll: Marshall, Crouch, Windhager
Int: Clark, Jones, NWM, Ross

Sub: Wood

[Vortex]

If Gresh becomes a full time small forward it creates another problem....what to do with Higgins. Can the team work with two small forwards....probably not.

[magnifisaint]

Lyon will sort him out. So far I think he’s been way overrated.

[B.M]

Explosive clearance player with a few tricks - especially his step

Good at stoppage or i50

Kicking efficiency is poor (like many inside Mids)

Can be a match winner at times, but not consistently

Couple of major injuries have hindered his development

[Viscount Jeremiah]

If Gresh becomes a full time small forward it creates another problem....what to do with Higgins. Can the team work with two small forwards....probably not.

2 small forwards is fine its the fact neither offers much pressure or pace that's an issue.

[spert]

Should be a forward who has occasional bursts through the middle when we want to mix things up. Has the ability to be an AA small forward or a solid midfielder.

My preferred round one lineup

B: Paton, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Coffield, Battle, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Billings
HF: Higgins, Hayes, Owens
F: Gresham, King, Membrey

Foll: Marshall, Crouch, Windhager
Int: Clark, Jones, NWM, Ross

Sub: Wood

Agree with a lot of that. I think though that Wood is a starter if he carries on with this season's form, probably in front of Billings. Should be an interesting pre-season, and if Lyon is true to form, then guys who lack a good defensive game are going have their work cut out to get senior selection.

[Ghost Like]

Should be a forward who has occasional bursts through the middle when we want to mix things up. Has the ability to be an AA small forward or a solid midfielder.

My preferred round one lineup

B: Paton, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Coffield, Battle, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Billings
HF: Higgins, Hayes, Owens
F: Gresham, King, Membrey

Foll: Marshall, Crouch, Windhager
Int: Clark, Jones, NWM, Ross

Sub: Wood

Agree with a lot of that. I think though that Wood is a starter if he carries on with this season's form, probably in front of Billings. Should be an interesting pre-season, and if Lyon is true to form, then guys who lack a good defensive game are going have their work cut out to get senior selection.

I think you may be correct with Lyon's non negotiables which may actually put Butler in front of Higgins.

Butler runs as fast chasing as he does when he has the ball or wants the ball. I'm not sure the same can be said about Higgins, Jones or Gresham.

[B.M]

Butlers pressure numbers are very high - has very high speed reads off pack very well but sometimes cheats

Higgins is not good defensively- very good offensively- leads well and is quick to identify transition. Does cheat a bit.
Gresham
Similar to Higgins but better at f50 stoppage

[skeptic]

Should be a forward who has occasional bursts through the middle when we want to mix things up. Has the ability to be an AA small forward or a solid midfielder.

My preferred round one lineup

B: Paton, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Coffield, Battle, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Billings
HF: Higgins, Hayes, Owens
F: Gresham, King, Membrey

Foll: Marshall, Crouch, Windhager
Int: Clark, Jones, NWM, Ross

Sub: Wood

Agree with a lot of that. I think though that Wood is a starter if he carries on with this season's form, probably in front of Billings. Should be an interesting pre-season, and if Lyon is true to form, then guys who lack a good defensive game are going have their work cut out to get senior selection.

I think you may be correct with Lyon's non negotiables which may actually put Butler in front of Higgins.

Butler runs as fast chasing as he does when he has the ball or wants the ball. I'm not sure the same can be said about Higgins, Jones or Gresham.

Will be very interesting to watch… to be honest, I find it a little concerning because as right as you are (and I suspect you’re on point), the player that plays that role needs to be able to hit the scoreboard with some regularity or contribute in other ways.

IMO it was one of Lyon’s biggest mistakes last time… you cannot afford to carry a player in the forward line that just does defence… chases, zones, pressures etc. that stuff is important but their qualities that need to be there alongside a FP either kicking goals or doing stuff that results in others kicking goals.

Kent was lauded for his defensive and other immeasurable qualities (certainly not by any metric I could see in 2020)… was getting 6-7 touches a game and at one point had some ridiculous metric like kicked 2 goals in 9 games.
People were happy whilst we were winning… when we stopped winning, that same output was all of a sudden criticised despite the fact that little changed.

Personally I’m a fan of Butler and think it’s tough to be a small forward in our set up but geeez I really don’t want to relive another era of competing is good enough. At the his point I prefer Higgins as he gets into the right spots but he needs to get fitter.

Stevie Milne is easily the worst defensively of the plethora of our recent FPs (Butler, Higgins, Kent, Lonie, Hind, Parker, Weller, Newnes) but he kicked goals.

That’s what matters and IMO is the not negotiable

[The_Dud]

Is an elite small forward and an average midfield.

Should be a permanent small forward who pinch hits in the middle every now and then for something different.

His tricks that can work in the forward line fall flat in the midfield too often and hurt us.

[shanegrambeau]

Should be a forward who has occasional bursts through the middle when we want to mix things up. Has the ability to be an AA small forward or a solid midfielder.

My preferred round one lineup

B: Paton, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Coffield, Battle, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Billings
HF: Higgins, Hayes, Owens
F: Gresham, King, Membrey

Foll: Marshall, Crouch, Windhager
Int: Clark, Jones, NWM, Ross

Sub: Wood

...Wood....probably in front of Billings.

Will be very interesting to watch…

.... I really don’t want to relive another era of competing is good enough.

Yes, it will be fascinating to watch.

I don't think Battle is good enough to be KPP, (wrong position often, doesn't pack punch overhead in packs) but as utility forward maybe. Maybe a loose back.

Not sold on Wood but who knows.

Will be fascinating to watch. Wouldn't it be interesting to be a fly on the wall and listen to them discuss a possible team?

I hope Lyon listens to himself and doesn't rely on Enwright and co. and anyone still infected with the old culture.

I surely agree about the era of rewarding players with selection primarily for 'chasing and pressure'. It means they were out of position at least most of the time.

Do you think Steele will be captain, with our notorious on-field leadership issues?

[Vortex]

Didnt we read RL being quoted as saying he values effort not skills?

Get read for small forwards guarding zones.

That's why I tend to agree Buttler will be an RL favourite.

[B.M]

The game has changed

Forward line pressure is paramount now, to lock it in or stop easy transition - where you get opened up.

To me, that is a non negotiable- but setting up and kicking goals is still the number 1 priority of all forwards

Balance in defence and offence critical


The least accountable players these days are running backs

Wingmen and Running back clearly have the lowest tackle counts

Purely because of the way teams defend the ground in modern footy

[Yorkeys]

We will be going in the right direction when Dan B is not regularly playing firsts. Pretty ineffective player generally with rare impact events. Doubt new coaching group will rate him.

Jade is pretty good getting his hands on the ball at centre bounces.
Something we need.

[Vortex]

We will be going in the right direction when Dan B is not regularly playing firsts. Pretty ineffective player generally with rare impact events. Doubt new coaching group will rate him.

Jade is pretty good getting his hands on the ball at centre bounces.
Something we need.

He gets his hands on but it's what happens next that is unpredictable which tends to happen when you kick like a crab.

[skeptic]

The game has changed

Forward line pressure is paramount now, to lock it in or stop easy transition - where you get opened up.

To me, that is a non negotiable- but setting up and kicking goals is still the number 1 priority of all forwards

Balance in defence and offence critical


The least accountable players these days are running backs

Wingmen and Running back clearly have the lowest tackle counts

Purely because of the way teams defend the ground in modern footy

Biggest con in football IMO.

I’ve been hearing this BS for 10 years.

McQualter, Eddy, a young Sean Dempster, Weller, Lonie, Kent, Hind, Parker, Butler, and Long…
How many games have we won because of their defensive pressure, stopping opponents, zoning off, guarding space etc.

You know what makes a defender more accountable to his opponent… being punished on the scoreboard when they play too loose.

It’s like I said before… a forward with absolutely no expectation to hit the scoreboard is a loser strategy… pretty much you’ve done the defences job for them. All this modern age stuff of being accountable, restricting play, pressuring, zoning needs to come alongside kicking goals.

Butler’s best year with us was his first because he one us games by kicking goals.

His 2022 when he blitzed the AFL with his amazing high level pressure acts saw us miss the finals and his performance attract a lot of criticism.

I’d personally lean to Higgins myself with the goal of increasing his fitness base and having increase his defensive ability and add that onto his match winning ability to kick goals

[B.M]

I think if you bank on Small Forwards to get you to finals and win premierships- you are not building your list or team very well…

Small forwards are role players, if the get 10 possessions kick 1-2 goals, lay 3 or 4 tackles - they have done their job

How many small forwards have won B&Fs?

Melbourne won a premiership with Spargo and Neale Bullen

Richmond with Aarts and Castagna

[Ghost Like]

I think if you bank on Small Forwards to get you to finals and win premierships- you are not building your list or team very well…

Small forwards are role players, if the get 10 possessions kick 1-2 goals, lay 3 or 4 tackles - they have done their job

How many small forwards have won B&Fs?

Melbourne won a premiership with Spargo and Neale Bullen

Richmond with Aarts and Castagna

& Butler