It’s very hard to wash your clothes with no detergent

[terry smith rules]

It seems that everyone is giving our playing list an absolute caning.

You could swear we're destined for the wooden spoon for the next couple of years, based on what so many idiots in the footy media have been saying.

As usual, they love to stick the boots into us, because that's what you do, isn't it? Don't think, just join the chorus because you can't think for yourself.

Agreed

The pile on re our list has been ridiculous

There are not many clubs that have multiple “A graders”

I was talking to my Geelong friend and we agreed that the cats have 4 maybe 5 (Dangerfield Hawkins Cameron Stewart and De Kooning on the way)

They have then a heap of really solid Bs. So it’s not like they are bursting at the seams with As.

And so much depends on who gets injured and your depth, so for us in 2022 Ryder and Gresham missing lots was critical

[cwrcyn]

Are there teams in the AFL with 8+ A graders? A lot is about perception, too. Take some players considered to be an A grader in a top team. If The played for North Melbourne would they still be considered A Graders?

Ben Cunnington , who, before his health issues. Was a gun in my opinion, but never labelled an A grader. If he'd played for Geelong he would have been

[B.M]

Or conversely

Players at strong clubs that aren’t perhaps considered A Graders

Because in comparison to their stars go under the radar or play in a less coveted position they are capable of aa those positions are taken?

Mitch Duncan for example is elite - but due to what’s around him, gets underrated.

Kane Lambert was another

[bobmurray]

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Potentially, you are either a boozer or a reefer toker, either way, i don't think you made your point.

Or both

[shanegrambeau]

When I look at the list I can only identify 7 or 8 players that would be likely to get a game with any of the top 4 sides, which imho suggests the list is poor, others may think differently.

(potentially)....in a top 4 side

Definite...:

Crouch
Gresham
King
Marshall
Membrey
Sinclair
Steele
Wilkie

Absolutely have the ability to be at that level (best 22 in a top 4 side) in 2023:

Battle
Billings
Butler
Clark
Coffield
Higgins
Hill
Howard
Jones
Paton
Ross
Windhager

....

In your 'definite' group, I think only;;

King
Sincs
Wilkie

are starters.
Maybe..Gresh???

Of the second group, based on '22 (who knows what Ross the Boss has in store for them)


I'd add only,

HIll
Howard
Windy
plus I'd put Marshall here..

The others would barely get a game, or be fringe players in a top 4 team, based on (I stress) the potential they showed in '22

Then, I would say Paton and Hunter C have promise, and Higgo may regain his pre-concussion form..but still wouldn't get a game in a top 4 team IMO.

[outside66]

It's been even harder to rid Ben Dixon's stench from Moorabbin. Honestly, this bloke owes us money as he put himself on the record to say that every team needs a goalkicking coach and if it didn't work then he, should he be a goalkicking coach, would gladly return his pay. Well, Membrey (who was one of the best set shots in the league prior to Dixon's arrival) went to water and a number of others went backwards during Dixon's tenure. It's a shame no one in the media reminds Dixon of this. The bloke is a turd.

[saynta]

It's been even harder to rid Ben Dixon's stench from Moorabbin. Honestly, this bloke owes us money as he put himself on the record to say that every team needs a goalkicking coach and if it didn't work then he, should he be a goalkicking coach, would gladly return his pay. Well, Membrey (who was one of the best set shots in the league prior to Dixon's arrival) went to water and a number of others went backwards during Dixon's tenure. It's a shame no one in the media reminds Dixon of this. The bloke is a turd.

100% correct.

[Scollop]

It's been even harder to rid Ben Dixon's stench from Moorabbin. Honestly, this bloke owes us money as he put himself on the record to say that every team needs a goalkicking coach and if it didn't work then he, should he be a goalkicking coach, would gladly return his pay. Well, Membrey (who was one of the best set shots in the league prior to Dixon's arrival) went to water and a number of others went backwards during Dixon's tenure. It's a shame no one in the media reminds Dixon of this. The bloke is a turd.

He likes clichés and funny stuff....but he doesn't deliver on results

He likes to be cool and gloat about how good he was....lots of stories and witty sayings (basically all sizzle...but no sausage)!!

[ctqs]

Depending what narrative you read and when, St Kilda either has a crap list or has underachieved. It can't be both.

[mad saint guy]

When I look at the list I can only identify 7 or 8 players that would be likely to get a game with any of the top 4 sides, which imho suggests the list is poor, others may think differently.

(potentially)....in a top 4 side

Definite...:

Crouch
Gresham
King
Marshall
Membrey
Sinclair
Steele
Wilkie

Absolutely have the ability to be at that level (best 22 in a top 4 side) in 2023:

Battle
Billings
Butler
Clark
Coffield
Higgins
Hill
Howard
Jones
Paton
Ross
Windhager

....

In your 'definite' group, I think only;;

King
Sincs
Wilkie

are starters.
Maybe..Gresh???

Of the second group, based on '22 (who knows what Ross the Boss has in store for them)


I'd add only,

HIll
Howard
Windy
plus I'd put Marshall here..

The others would barely get a game, or be fringe players in a top 4 team, based on (I stress) the potential they showed in '22

Then, I would say Paton and Hunter C have promise, and Higgo may regain his pre-concussion form..but still wouldn't get a game in a top 4 team IMO.

You don't think Jack Steele gets a game in a top 4 side? Show me a best 22 that wouldn't have room for Marshall, Membrey or Crouch.

The second group refers to overall ability, not just promise shown in 2022. Plenty of those players had horrid years but it's hard to shine at a club that was an absolute basket case for half the season, along with many of those players dealing with injuries.

[Vortex]

Depending what narrative you read and when, St Kilda either has a crap list or has underachieved. It can't be both.

It's actually over achieved in the case of our list, had an incredibly easy draw in the first half and then we were exposed by injuries to only a relatively small amount of players.

Lethers was bold to publicly admit we over achieved however he was only being brutally honest and telegraphing what most astute observers were also concluding.

I wonder how he and RL are going to work together, probably will be the first relationship to fracture.

[asiu]

well

... brutally honest and telegraphing what most astute observers were also concluding.

imo ... thats a positive

dealing with 'what is' , is a rare skillset in itself

so , on that evidence ... thats a tick from me

IF , i was 'the' Leader
... thats what is needed to be heard at the round table

so , given that Ross is the Boss

hopefully , all involved
have the balls to straight shoot , their respective talk

coz the most important 'position/s' imo ,
in any sized organisation
is/are the 2ic 's

the leader has plenty to DO already

the 2ic's
run execution , cover , pick up , pressure reducement ,
and straight talk

whilst learning that their 'leadership' aspirations
are well served by being behind the scenes
(so to speak)

all bases covered
... like a well oiled machine

the Bosses job
is to slay his own megalomania

and in showing his 2ic's , thats possible
... everyone wins

re the other bit

there was a whisper on the wires
that it was Rath 'n Ross
doing the ... lets test our relationship , thingy.

[Vortex]

well

... brutally honest and telegraphing what most astute observers were also concluding.

imo ... thats a positive

dealing with 'what is' , is a rare skillset in itself

so , on that evidence ... thats a tick from me

IF , i was 'the' Leader
... thats what is needed to be heard at the round table

so , given that Ross is the Boss

hopefully , all involved
have the balls to straight shoot , their respective talk

coz the most important 'position/s' imo ,
in any sized organisation
is/are the 2ic 's

the leader has plenty to DO already

the 2ic's
run execution , cover , pick up , pressure reducement ,
and straight talk

whilst learning that their 'leadership' aspirations
are well served by being behind the scenes
(so to speak)

all bases covered
... like a well oiled machine

the Bosses job
is to slay his own megalomania

and in showing his 2ic's , thats possible
... everyone wins

re the other bit

there was a whisper on the wires
that it was Rath 'n Ross
doing the ... lets test our relationship , thingy.

Couldn't agree more, it's text book leadership huh...and then there is ego which Shirl sung beautifully is not a dirty word.

And then there are resources....like a talented list.

[asiu]

ego ... is a construct

an imagination we clothe ourself in
to impress

the cult of the individual
set up

to be divided 'n conquered

ie ... text book control mechanastics

[asiu]

re the next bit

hmmmm

Faith
... build it
and they WILL come

[Vortex]

This is St Kilda...it's a fine line between faith and objectivity

[asiu]

cultcha

choose your Polarity
(means u know what your up to)

then go hard at the target




utilise the snipers
via
social focus groups

(even those not on 'your' side have their valid pov)

pinch anything that is relevant
... fix that

then get back to going hard at the target

Simples.

[magnifisaint]

What about drycleaning?

[flack]

I believe we have the makings of a good team. There were a few games last year when we played footy at the top level and came out on top. Unfortunately, inconsistency was our enemy. I think the remodelled coaching department will demand more from the players and I hope they rise to the challenge. Demand they earn their pay not make excuses for why they can't run out the full four quarters

[WellardSaint]

It's been even harder to rid Ben Dixon's stench from Moorabbin. Honestly, this bloke owes us money as he put himself on the record to say that every team needs a goalkicking coach and if it didn't work then he, should he be a goalkicking coach, would gladly return his pay. Well, Membrey (who was one of the best set shots in the league prior to Dixon's arrival) went to water and a number of others went backwards during Dixon's tenure. It's a shame no one in the media reminds Dixon of this. The bloke is a turd.

Membrey wasn't exposed to Dixon's brand of madness.
He didn't work with him.
So we can't blame Dixon for Membrey's slide.
The club had said in 2018 that Skunk wasn't part of the Dixon group- I'm trying to find the article now

[outside66]

It's been even harder to rid Ben Dixon's stench from Moorabbin. Honestly, this bloke owes us money as he put himself on the record to say that every team needs a goalkicking coach and if it didn't work then he, should he be a goalkicking coach, would gladly return his pay. Well, Membrey (who was one of the best set shots in the league prior to Dixon's arrival) went to water and a number of others went backwards during Dixon's tenure. It's a shame no one in the media reminds Dixon of this. The bloke is a turd.

Membrey wasn't exposed to Dixon's brand of madness.
He didn't work with him.
So we can't blame Dixon for Membrey's slide

Are you sure about that? If that is true, then that further highlights Dixon's useless-ness when he was at the club as I imagine a goal kicking coach would intervene/work with a player who was going through a career-worst period of goalkicking.

[Impatient Sainter]

Thank you goal kicking sharp shooter Ben Dixon …

Former Hawthorn star Ben Dixon believes while Lyon is an “incredible appointment”, he enters a club that was in dire straits long before Ratten’s arrival and eventual departure.
“Ross is going to take that club forward no matter what, but in Ratten’s defence, he inherited a lot of that dirty laundry,” Dixon told foxfooty.com.au.

“It’s very hard to wash your clothes with no detergent.
“He had an incredibly hard job to come in and straighten things up, but it’s been rotting for so long that sometimes you can’t stop it.”
In his press conference to announce Ratten’s sacking, Bassat said the club is committed to “getting the foundations right”.
“If that takes us backwards before it takes us forwards – we hope it does not – but if it does, we’ll cop it and we’ll maintain the courage of our convictions.”
For Dixon, “backwards” may be putting it nicely.
LISTLESS
“When you look at it, he‘s at blank canvas stage going into St Kilda. They’ve slaughtered the list. They’ve got no real guns,” he said.
“Jack Steele yes, Max King is a possible – he still hasn’t pushed to A-grade status yet because he hasn’t finished his work – if you can’t find more than two or three, it’s a blank canvass. He’s starting from scratch.
“Nothing is attractive about that list.”
The push in recent years to bring in experienced talent at the expense of draft capital was a fundamental miscalculation that perhaps is still to rear its head completely.

Didnt he get sacked as our goal kicking coach after 1 season?

The f...wit has a rude awakening coming if he thinks his beloved Hawks are going to shoot back up the ladder after pushing out their older leaders. They will win the spoon for the next 2 years and then blame/sack Mitchell for their lack of improvement. Then continue another rebuild under a different coach ala Melbourne of the early 2000's. So Ben people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones!