Ross Lyon put saints back ten years by not playing youth

[Saints58]

I can't believe people calling for Ross Lyons reinstatement at the Saints.

People have short memory's, don't get me wrong I think he is a great coach but only if you have a team near contenting or a contender he does not develop players.

The team he had in 2009 comprised a lot of early draft picks unlike this team that does not have many first rounders so we need a coach who can develop the group I don't think Ross is the man who can do that.

While Ross was coach he played the experienced players a core group of 23,25, players the only time he didn't was when one of them was injured and as soon as they were ready he put them back in and dropped the young guys didn't matter how they played they were out.

This went on till he left when we lost 4 guys 22-26 due to no games, and some went on to do really well at other clubs also lost our full back in Zach Dawson who went to Fremantle with Ross.

We didn't recruited anyone expect Lovett from Essendon pick 16 who was trouble and we cut before he played a game.

He played Luke ball 12m in last quarter of 2009 GF he leaves club for what pick Nothing to Collingwood they offered pick 22 plus player we reject it and he walks to the draft and is picked up by Collingwood.

After Ross left it took us years to rebuild our list and we are getting there only now.

The only way I would be happy to have Ross Lyon back is if he concentrated on the Coaching and Training nothing else.

Also in team selection is a group decision not just his so we have integrity in the process.

And we make sure he sticks to coaching nothing else so the same situation does not arise and the club is worse off.

[B.M]

Chris Pelchen and Tony Elshaug set us back a decade

How Ross coached in 2009/2010 had little impact on the club (2012-2022)

[magnifisaint]

Chris Pelchen and Tony Elshaug set us back a decade

How Ross coached in 2009/2010 had little impact on the club (2012-2022)

Elshaugh was the problem.
Getting rid of McEvoy, Goodard and Dal Santo didn't help. Idiotic move.

[chook23]

Chris Pelchen and Tony Elshaug set us back a decade

How Ross coached in 2009/2010 had little impact on the club (2012-2022)

this

[B.M]

Pelchen made the decisions to trade out existing players for picks

Elshaug was responsible for those picks

Both fkd the club

[Impatient Sainter]

People change and most actually get better as they age as they learn from their errors. Lyon mkII will be a very different coach than mk1 he is now much more experienced and a complete package.

[Teflon]

Chris Pelchen and Tony Elshaug set us back a decade

How Ross coached in 2009/2010 had little impact on the club (2012-2022)

Spot on
Wish I knew how to post the vid of Ross being interviewed whike at Freo by Roo/Dal…..very interesting listen
Was asked about recruiting basically said he leaves that to the guys whose job it is , gives his 2 cents but they make the decisions
Also was asked by Dal how does he need to adjust his style from Saints to a younger developing Freo list…Lyon responded by saying they aren’t at the level of belief Saints side got to get so he has to temper his demands abd shelter them a bit as there is a lot of external pressure on them and that they didn’t need extra from him
A side to Lyon many don’t see
Roo cheekily asked him about dropping Dal/Milne if that was a hard call ….Ross joked it was his master stroke but if they’d have lost that week he was gonna get sacked…great respect amongst them was obvious
Worth a watch it was on Fox.

[asiu]

???

this one Teff


https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10015464/

[skeptic]

I just hope that if he gets the gig, RL has moved on from carrying pressure forwards that corral and harass more than they hit the scoreboard or get kicks. Guys like McQualter and Eddy got regular gigs in those roles across 2010, pushing up the ground at times ahead of the Steven Armitage’s of the time. Heck Dempster played it for a while too before excelling in the backline

Ratten liked that model too and both held on to and pushed the Lonies, Kents, Newnes, Butlers, types too often for too long.

I just couldn’t bear any more of that mentality.

[SaintPav]

People change and most actually get better as they age as they learn from their errors. Lyon mkII will be a very different coach than mk1 he is now much more experienced and a complete package.

Let’s hope so.

Not sure why they need to give him a 5 year contract if reports are to be believed.

[skeptic]

People change and most actually get better as they age as they learn from their errors. Lyon mkII will be a very different coach than mk1 he is now much more experienced and a complete package.

Let’s hope so.

Not sure why they need to give him a 5 year contract if reports are to be believed.

I would say that’s RL playing his hand rather than the other way round.

For whatever criticism one has of RL, few could argue that he isn’t a shrewd deal maker and no doubt he’s plainly aware that he holds all the power here (if it is the case).

[bigred]

Maybe you can blame Ross for it.

It definitely was the catalyst for our decline when he left.

We hired a shyte coach to replace him. And then another.

Our list management was run by incompetent clowns for effectively a generation of list turnover.

To be honest if you really want to look for scapegoats for that decade, I would be more focussed on Michael Nettlefold, Chris Pelchen and perhaps Tony Elshaugh.

[cps]

???

this one Teff


https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10015464/

Is it this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f82GRkLmcA

Cheers!

[Waltzing St Kilda]

This is Lyon's last gig if he gets it.

Accordingly he'll want to prolong it as long as possible.

I think he'll develop the kids as a matter of necessity.

Btw, people talk about how great the side was back then but as I recall the general feeling at the time was that he'd done a remarkable job with a team that, especially after the retirrement of Gehrig, Harvey, Hamill and Voss, was bottom-heavy with GOPs and mediiocrities.

[spert]

Yesterday's man- please NO Saints

[terry smith rules]

Oh so this tired old pearl of wisdom gets trotted out…. AGAIN

In 2009, we won what 19 in a row, and with minimal injuries, so not much room for a change

Of the youngsters

Jack Steven at 19 got 1 game late in season
Begley (who?) 1 game
Armitage 3 (from memory never looked fit enough as a youngster)
McEvoy 11 (about right given who else we had)
Eddy played 10 as a revolving door type player

None of those totals seem terrible, we were an amazing team that year, why would you gift games

2010

Lynch 1
Miles 2
Heyne 3
Pattison 5
Stanley 7
Armitage 9
Steven 8
Eddy 10 again

Steven got a run of 5 or 6 games late in season, so obviously had a chance to press his case
Armitage was trying to break into an unbelievable midfield, and fitness was still a question

Of the others the only player who got a rough deal was Tom Lynch, 1 game on Dustin Fletcher (ouch), his leaving was a mistake

So would the OP like to elaborate rather than just generalise.

[Bruce G McAbee]

I can sort of agree with the post, but Ross Lyon was not responsible for the last minute switch to pick McCartin ahead of Petracca which basically sums up our recruiting prowess for the last decade.

[skeptic]

I don’t know that not playing youth was the issue… there’s certainly an argument to be made that the youth wasn’t exactly super crash hot at the time…

The issue is about developing…

In 2010, McQualter was down on form for the majority of the season… way down on his 09 improvement, really wasn’t getting much of the pill, kicked less goals… he was one of the first really big examples of what was later termed ‘role player’.

His value was in harassing, chasing, corralling, standing in particular spots… It wasn’t in acts that could be measured in directly influencing the play… but he played in 24 of 25 games (or something).
I remember this because I was already off Lyon at this stage and his continued selection drove me crazy.

He was ahead of Steven and Armitage. Got more opportunity, seemed to have a lower ceiling and higher leniency.

And he wasn’t the only one. Gram was down that season… Dempster had a ways to go before he became the player he would be

That’s what bothered me… Armitage, Steven, McEvoy, Geary got better after RL left, Lynch too after he left. And Dempster though that was not due to lack of opportunity.

One needs to have the ability to decide which players to persevere with or push more so than others. I’ve always been somewhat uncertain of RL’s ability in this regard

[Waltzing St Kilda]

I don’t know that not playing youth was the issue… there’s certainly an argument to be made that the youth wasn’t exactly super crash hot at the time…

The issue is about developing…

In 2010, McQualter was down on form for the majority of the season… way down on his 09 improvement, really wasn’t getting much of the pill, kicked less goals… he was one of the first really big examples of what was later termed ‘role player’.

His value was in harassing, chasing, corralling, standing in particular spots… It wasn’t in acts that could be measured in directly influencing the play… but he played in 24 of 25 games (or something).
I remember this because I was already off Lyon at this stage and his continued selection drove me crazy.

He was ahead of Steven and Armitage. Got more opportunity, seemed to have a lower ceiling and higher leniency.

And he wasn’t the only one. Gram was down that season… Dempster had a ways to go before he became the player he would be

That’s what bothered me… Armitage, Steven, McEvoy, Geary got better after RL left, Lynch too after he left. And Dempster though that was not due to lack of opportunity.

One needs to have the ability to decide which players to persevere with or push more so than others. I’ve always been somewhat uncertain of RL’s ability in this regard

I agree though every single St Kilda coch in my lifetime has made what I consider puzzling selection decisions or prioritised the wrong players. Only with RL did we (almost) mever get thrashed or come out looking listless and directionless.

[seano1]

I can't believe people calling for Ross Lyons reinstatement at the Saints.

People have short memory's, don't get me wrong I think he is a great coach but only if you have a team near contenting or a contender he does not develop players.

The team he had in 2009 comprised a lot of early draft picks unlike this team that does not have many first rounders so we need a coach who can develop the group I don't think Ross is the man who can do that.

While Ross was coach he played the experienced players a core group of 23,25, players the only time he didn't was when one of them was injured and as soon as they were ready he put them back in and dropped the young guys didn't matter how they played they were out.

This went on till he left when we lost 4 guys 22-26 due to no games, and some went on to do really well at other clubs also lost our full back in Zach Dawson who went to Fremantle with Ross.

We didn't recruited anyone expect Lovett from Essendon pick 16 who was trouble and we cut before he played a game.

He played Luke ball 12m in last quarter of 2009 GF he leaves club for what pick Nothing to Collingwood they offered pick 22 plus player we reject it and he walks to the draft and is picked up by Collingwood.

After Ross left it took us years to rebuild our list and we are getting there only now.

The only way I would be happy to have Ross Lyon back is if he concentrated on the Coaching and Training nothing else.

Also in team selection is a group decision not just his so we have integrity in the process.

And we make sure he sticks to coaching nothing else so the same situation does not arise and the club is worse off.

Did he cause this is what Geelong does and has been for awhile

[saintfreddy]

Perhaps I am missing something but to me, what new coaching strategies will Ross Lyon bring if he gets the gig. He reminds me a lot of John Longmire except he is determined to flood and defend to an even greater level. I think of how he coached and look at Geelong this year. We would have been lucky to just lose by 80 points.

Plus, I am long in the tooth but felt he was a traitor when he left. Nothing appeals to me about him, whatsoever. Please, please pick another coach, not Lyon. I am not going to scream and threaten to throw away my membership, will probably just be miserable. I also think how many footballers will not get a chance, thus looking to be traded. God help us if Ross Lyon is supposedly the best coach available.

[saintsRrising]

OP way way off the mark.

Lyon was brought in with the mission to get the THEN list into Grand Finals. This he did better than any other St Kilda Coach apart from Jeans.

He did what he was brought in to do, and was a bee's dick off winning two flags. Hawkins kicks a point and was given a goal, and a toe poke goes straight to Ablett for another.

Milne 9 times out of 10 would have the ball bounce so that he would gather and goal.

We were also competitive in those two grand finals.



What Lyon was not brought in to do was to build and develop a team in the longterm. So the OP is way way off the mark.


Richo and Ratts both given the job to be nice blokes and build team = complete failures.


Of the coaches currently available, Lyon is head and shoulders the best AVAILABLE option.



Then add in that we have finally pissed of the "admin types" in Lethlean and Bains who were allow to f*** over our football department by being the men in charge. We now have a true football person in charge in Walsh.

Just need to get rid of Gags now and geta true List Manager..hopefully Cripps.

Lyon to coach, Cripps to build and improve the list, and Walso to make sure that both Lyon and Cripps can achieve their best outcomes.




We are finally acting like a football club should again. About b****y time.

[bigred]

I understand the ill will.

When Lyon left, it was like being forced into a divorce and the other half took your dog.

Need to get over it and move on.

[Teflon]

???

this one Teff


https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10015464/

Thanks mate

[Teflon]

This is Lyon's last gig if he gets it.

Accordingly he'll want to prolong it as long as possible.

I think he'll develop the kids as a matter of necessity.

Btw, people talk about how great the side was back then but as I recall the general feeling at the time was that he'd done a remarkable job with a team that, especially after the retirrement of Gehrig, Harvey, Hamill and Voss, was bottom-heavy with GOPs and mediiocrities.

You are bang on
Top end list was quality
Depth was suspect
I still think he could’ve helped that by bringing in kids but the drafting wasn’t great over that time
He did make players like Blake, Baker, Gram, Gwilts etc consistent performers so his record of getting the best out of players who aren’t stars is good
We have a list full of them so he’ll get his chance !