Ratten sacked

[Scollop]

That video of Lyon is so funny. Bloke hasn’t achieved the ultimate success in the game and he’s got this cocky attitude that he thinks he knows it all.….The guy is a shitstain for the way he ‘branded’ the team and the way he put blame on his players for under achieving in 2011. Who knows what might have been if his mind was on the job of assisting his then employer instead of focussing on his next job

Thinks he understands footy better than every one else in the room back in 2011. Thinks he can foresee and predict when a player should retire from the game.

“We’re a mature list” “It’s the end of an ERA…really”

Was it really the end of an era in 2011 for these players after the Ross Toss last press conference as St Kilda coach?

Nick Riewoldt: Wins the Trevor Barker medal in 2014 and is named All Australian as the CHF in 2014 as well being Vice captain for the team. Plays for five more years.

Lenny Hayes: Wins the TBM in 2012 and plays as he always has at a very level, for three more years after Toss left

Stephen Milne: Saints leading goal scorer two years running and back to back All Australian again in 2012. Milney played for 2 more years and could have easily gone on for three if perhaps circumstances were different

Leigh Montagna: Second in the TBMedal in 2012 and third in 2013. Goes on to play at his consistent high level for 5 years

Sam Fisher: Probably one of the players who started falling off in form and with injuries, but had very strong years in 2012 and 2015, eventually retiring at the end of 2016. That’s 4 more years

Both these guys went to other clubs but they certainly were not at the ‘end of an era’ with their football just because Toss said so

Nick Dal Santo: The three times AA with the Saints plays on for 4 more years and notches up over 300 AFL games

Brendon Goddard: Same as Nick, the dual All Australian goes on to play an astonishing 6 more years and with a total tally of 334 games at AFL level

There were others I could mention but you get the picture

And what about the two ruckmen that were there when Tosser left? Both guys who Ross didn’t rate and both guys who would be valued in their teams after they were shoved out - Ben McEvoy and Rhys Stanley both end up with Premiership medallions and both in the system for more than 10 years after Mr Lyon’s end of an era bullsh!t speech

[Scollop]

The other really funny thing about some of the players mentioned above is that they are Ross’s biggest fans. Can’t ever say a bad word or be critical of him and his decisions as coach while he was St Kilda coach or about his famous ‘end of an era’ speech at that press conference. I suppose it’s like a kid who looks up to his senior mentors or to his uncle or his father if you like.

Some call it respect and a mutual bond. I call it a lack of objectivity. The really sad thing is that the senior players and the whole football department at the time believed what Ross said about the team as far as ‘end of an era’ and I believe it had a profound negative impact on the club in 2012 especially

[Toy Saint]

Good post Scallop, I'm definitely not a Lyon fan either.

It was my understanding that Ratten's contract was to the end of 2022, but some genius decided to extend it by another 2 years around the mid season break.

Personally I was happy to allow the original contract to expire at the end of 2022 and look for another coach. Ultimately we've ended up in the right place.

The decision to resign Ratten mid year is statistically stupid, and the decision maker should resign immediately.

[silverhalo]

I don't like the way Lyon parted with the club, but in all honesty, I'd love to have him back because he is the best available right now - brilliant football brain with a hard edge and that's what we need.

[Templar]

Good post Scallop, I'm definitely not a Lyon fan either.

It was my understanding that Ratten's contract was to the end of 2022, but some genius decided to extend it by another 2 years around the mid season break.

Personally I was happy to allow the original contract to expire at the end of 2022 and look for another coach. Ultimately we've ended up in the right place.

The decision to resign Ratten mid year is statistically stupid, and the decision maker should resign immediately.

So presumably the review identified this event with the drop off. Might it have been followed up with some serious white anting by those unhappy with the decision which then went through the group? It would explain the players miserable disposition and post bye win/loss ratio.

[chook23]

Walsh does not start to November

his fingers not involved?

[saintkid]

So, is Lethlean going to survive all this or is the blame for Ratten's contract extension, the stupidity of Hannebery and Hill's recruiting/contracting going to be put down to Finnis?

What an unprofessional club. such perfect timing and continued knee jerk reactions again.

[Dis Believer]

It was a good call.

Someone also posted this on BF a bit earlier tonight in the rumour thread over there.

Probably Curly's alias over there

Yes I noticed PAndaG on BF is remarkably similar to "The Recruit" over here as well.....

[CURLY]

SEN pumping up Cal Twomey about dropping the news . Only two hours after I posted it CAL if your reading this.

[meher baba]

Before the club decides what coach it wants, it needs to work out what was wrong with the setup this year.

If you listen to the likes of Teflon, it was the tactical approach: apparently, after the half-way point in the season, Ratten and his team were keen to have the players hesitate in moving the ball forward before finally kicking it to King while he was triple-teamed.

That''s not my view. I think that Ratten had developed an effective strategy based on working around the fact that we have one of the weakest midfields in the comp. A number of things went wrong with that approach in the second half of the season. Some key players were injured at crucial times: especially Ryder. And we were more frequently playing the stronger teams who had better counters to our tactics. After a few losses, our players began to lose confidence, and became incapable of delivering Ratten's plan, which depended crucially on moving the ball forward quickly at all costs. So our players started to hesitate with the ball - fearful of turnovers which would cost us on the scoreboard - and the wheels came off.

I think what we want from a new coach is certainly some new thinking on tactics but, more importantly, someone who can fill the guys with the confidence they need to deliver on the game plan. Lyon at the top of his game would have been good - he certainly was able to instill confidence in his charges - but I'm not sure where he's at these days. Yze is the guy all the pundits would probably suggest we should take: yet another Clarkson apprentice. But I think we've had more than enough of the Clarkson style.

A left field suggestion would be to give Boris a crack. He certainly comes across as a smart tactician and, more importantly, a strong leader of men. I suspect that he would say that he isn't ready yet, which to my mind is further evidence of the calibre of the guy. Geelong are currently the gold standard, and Enright has plenty of insight into their approach. Why not?

[Ajantis]

So tired of these of sudden decisions that constantly happen at St.Kilda.
Start a fresh and make St.Kilda > St.Tasmania

[CURLY]

So tired of these of sudden decisions that constantly happen at St.Kilda.
Start a fresh and make St.Kilda > St.Tasmania

Sudden?? Really.

[saintkid]

SEN pumping up Cal Twomey about dropping the news . Only two hours after I posted it CAL if your reading this.

You did well Curly, no question

[Ajantis]

So tired of these of sudden decisions that constantly happen at St.Kilda.
Start a fresh and make St.Kilda > St.Tasmania

Sudden?? Really.

I am seriously considering looking at another Club.
Been with St.Kilda all my life with my Dad and dont want to make a choice but come on St.kIlda its beyond a Joke.

[DJ Higgins]

I don’t have a problem with moving ratts on as I never backed him as a tactician ie never seemed to have a plan b. My concern is that we had the perfect opportunity to start the coach hunt back in June and go hard at Alistair Clarkson or someone, anyone else.

But now what? When Essendon and Melbourne are making fun of your club for being a basket case you know your in trouble

[CURLY]

SEN pumping up Cal Twomey about dropping the news . Only two hours after I posted it CAL if your reading this.

You did well Curly, no question

Not that it matters but its funny when you hear them say Cal has had a magnificent trade period with his mail. Then go on that he dropped this. Hearing s*** is not a skill.

[Teflon]

Teffers will be happy

You know me so well

No offence Teffers but whilst I have no doubt that you’re not celebrating Ratten’s poor fortune… I think if this forum was to guess as to which forumite approved of this decision the most… 95% of the votes would have ticked over to you.

Out of interest… any thoughts on who’ll get the nod as head coach. Personally I have a sneaky suspicion that Mr. Lyon may get the tap on the shoulder

It’s a good question and you’re right I do feel for Ratten he’s a genuinely nice guy from all reports but it had to be done. The real issue as we all know is: why the hell did they extend him? But that’s another question

Whose next?
Have no idea - lots hoping Buckley (I’m genuinely not sure..the style Pies played under him was stifled compared to McCrae)
Ross? Can he/has he moved with the times? Can he develop a side who isn’t too 4 ready?? I think he needs to answer those questions in a process. What I do like about Lyon is you know he will absolutely bring and demand standards…that has appeal to a club that clearly has lacked in this area for a decade.
Yze? Has missed out at 3/4 clubs now? Is it right to throw newbie in? Can we risk that going belly up?? Again, you’d want a stellar performance in a process
Leppitsch is interesting….speaks very well.,,
I don’t want
Harvey - lovely bloke , Ratten like and no one should shoot Bambi he’s my hero
Leon Cameron - no
GT - won’t be considered but will mouth off how he should be on Board. Utter platitudes and drivel
A left field option …,
Luke Beverage …. Has ties to the club ….but he does appear to p!ss a few of his players off … rides a skateboard/cuts his own hair …that’s unnerving but still…
Gonna be a ride!
I must say it’s a ballsy decision by a club that hasn’t been known for that lately….I think Bassatt has been embarrassed by what he’s been fed by footy Dept
Nervous group:
Lethlean
Gallagher
Rath

[Teflon]

The other really funny thing about some of the players mentioned above is that they are Ross’s biggest fans. Can’t ever say a bad word or be critical of him and his decisions as coach while he was St Kilda coach or about his famous ‘end of an era’ speech at that press conference. I suppose it’s like a kid who looks up to his senior mentors or to his uncle or his father if you like.

Some call it respect and a mutual bond. I call it a lack of objectivity. The really sad thing is that the senior players and the whole football department at the time believed what Ross said about the team as far as ‘end of an era’ and I believe it had a profound negative impact on the club in 2012 especially

Just an external pov nonsense
I’d back Riewoldts take over you’re anyday
Again, the entire footy world knows Lyon can coach it’s just utter BS to suggest he can’t
Is he ruthless? Yes
Does he really love your Color’s? Probably not
It’s a transaction- he’s clinical
My only issue with him - does Lyon have the ability to move with footy times? Can he develop younger players ?
Moneyball footy is lovely but as we found out in 09 with a toe poke ….classy players win out in the heat of battle over battlers

[Teflon]

The other really funny thing about some of the players mentioned above is that they are Ross’s biggest fans. Can’t ever say a bad word or be critical of him and his decisions as coach while he was St Kilda coach or about his famous ‘end of an era’ speech at that press conference. I suppose it’s like a kid who looks up to his senior mentors or to his uncle or his father if you like.

Some call it respect and a mutual bond. I call it a lack of objectivity. The really sad thing is that the senior players and the whole football department at the time believed what Ross said about the team as far as ‘end of an era’ and I believe it had a profound negative impact on the club in 2012 especially

Just an external pov nonsense
I’d back Riewoldts take over you’re anyday
Again, the entire footy world knows Lyon can coach it’s just utter BS to suggest he can’t
Is he ruthless? Yes
Does he really love your Color’s? Probably not
It’s a transaction- he’s clinical
My only issue with him - does Lyon have the ability to move with footy times? Can he develop younger players ?
Moneyball footy is lovely but as we found out in 09 with a toe poke ….classy players win out in the heat of battle over battlers

[Templar]

Whose next?
Have no idea - lots hoping Buckley

Stop it. I nearly spewed up my breakfast.

[suss]

So tired of these of sudden decisions that constantly happen at St.Kilda.
Start a fresh and make St.Kilda > St.Tasmania

Sudden?? Really.

I am seriously considering looking at another Club.
Been with St.Kilda all my life with my Dad and dont want to make a choice but come on St.kIlda its beyond a Joke.

You can't leave now, we're about to get a new coach.

[The_Dud]

When are the higher-ups going to be held accountable for the long list of terrible deals/contracts/trades made over the last few years?

I feel for both Richo and Ratts getting the boot as they both seem like genuinely good people, just not up to being senior coaches it seems, but they should never have had their contracts extended in the first place, and that's not their fault.

[The_Dud]

Honest question here.

Do we think he has anything to do with the Hawthorn racism saga?
I know he has not been named publicly previously, while other specific people have been, but the sudden shift smells to me?

It crossed my mind also.

[skeptic]

When are the higher-ups going to be held accountable for the long list of terrible deals/contracts/trades made over the last few years?

I feel for both Richo and Ratts getting the boot as they both seem like genuinely good people, just not up to being senior coaches it seems, but they should never have had their contracts extended in the first place, and that's not their fault.

I have less sympathy for Richo as the one thing that we can definitively say is that he got a fair go.
Coached longer than Ratten, GT, Alves and Sheldon all of who did much better than he did

[The G Train Legacy]

So tired of these of sudden decisions that constantly happen at St.Kilda.
Start a fresh and make St.Kilda > St.Tasmania

Sudden?? Really.

I am seriously considering looking at another Club.
Been with St.Kilda all my life with my Dad and dont want to make a choice but come on St.kIlda its beyond a Joke.

Fine go and barrack for Essendon